Who all doesn't like the demo tweak?

Demo nerfed for the worse?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 31.0%

  • No

    Votes: 40 69.0%
  • Total voters
    58
Godsent.

As a pyro, it's very annoying to rush the demo and get a frag in the face causing instant death. It's a serious bummer, but should keep demo's from having an "I win button".
 
Yeah but have you ever played demo? Its made him worthless. Also I have always had a negative view of pyros anyhow. I don't see the point of them as a class.

Even IRL they where useless except for in say Vietnam where they where used to clear out enemies hiding and to uncover traps.

If they wanted to make pyros better they should have just made them faster. IMHO.
 
Vangald said:
Yeah but have you ever played demo? Its made him worthless. Also I have always had a negative view of pyros anyhow. I don't see the point of them as a class.
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They are useful for catching spies and setting enemies on fire which sends them running all the way back to a medipack or a medic.
 
I agree, with all the complaints against the power of Sentry Guns, it seems strange that Valve would nerf the one anti-SG class.
 
oh please.

Demoman are still fine for SG killing. Just use the sticky bombs
 
I never play demoman so I'm in favor of it lol
 
i play pyro a lot and those explode on impact nades pissed me off to no end. Demomen usually in my experience ended up at the top of the leaderboards just at how easy they got kills..
 
I think they've gone from too strong to too weak, since grenades that bounce have become good for nothing more than negligible splash damage. The lack of any kind of shotgun weapon really tells now. It's still too early for me to decide whether I like them too weak or whether I preferred them a bit too strong, however.
 
I think it's an improvement - demoman is now an actual defensive class, as intended, rather than a "rush in and spam one-hit-kill grenades everywhere" class. The change removes some versatility, definitely, but I'm not gonna miss dying instantly from a grenade that happened to bounce behind me.
 
It certainly means I'll be playing as a demoman less.
 
I don't understand how you guys believe that they are nerfed. It only stopped it from detonating after the first bounce. I don't know about you guys, but when I shot at people, I don't ricochet it off of 3 walls to get to them. It will still work just fine, people are just bitching because their class died.

You guys should notice that it won't affect anything too much, and your class is just as fine as before.
 
So now you actually need to aim to kill with them? Not to hope for a lucky bounce. Awsome change \o/
 
I think it's a good change. The short time I have played as a Demoman it doesn't seem to change how I play too much. I'm usually defensive with it anyway. If I was in danger of being killed from an enemy then I need to hit them with a quick direct shot anyway. The bounce instant kills only seemed to help when I was spamming them down a long hall hoping to catch an enemy off guard. Like if they were just coming from spawn. If I knew the enemy was camping the corner, especially a sniper or soldier, I probably wouldn't be sticking my face out. And I would probably use sticky bombs instead.
 
People thought they were good because they could spit four 200-damage grenades at a fast rate while hiding behind sentryguns.

This nerf is wonderful.
 
Yeah, I really don't call it much of a nerf though. It's not like he does less damage, or anything
 
I think the nerf was way overboard. I find myself playing TF2 a lot less now because of it. If you look at my TF2 stats in my signature, I play demoman almost exclusively. The nerf has definitely changed the playstyle of the class drastically almost to the point of unplayability. Yes, I was probably one of those nade spammers who filled hallways with the nades in hopes of getting a lucky shot, but that was half the fun of the class.

Now you have to be incredibly accurate in order to get a hit with the grenade launcher making the demoman's offensive capability completely nill. If you look at any other class you can see how they have some form of offense, whether it be a medic backing up a heavy or an engineering putting a well placed sentry on the front lines that also happens to be out of sight.

I find it hard to enjoy any other class in this game and so this nerf was way too much for me. I'll still play demoman but with a vengeful fury and angry bitterness directed towards whoever makes these stupid balance changes.
 
Excuse me if I don't play as much as the majority of you guys, but my views are still valid.
 
You can't enjoy other classes and will feel a constant bitterness as you play the only you class you claim to like... no, your views aren't valid, they're insane.
 
I've always hated the Demoman, facing him and playing him, so the change is fine, imo.
 
mrxskinny said:
I think the nerf was way overboard. I find myself playing TF2 a lot less now because of it. If you look at my TF2 stats in my signature, I play demoman almost exclusively. The nerf has definitely changed the playstyle of the class drastically almost to the point of unplayability. Yes, I was probably one of those nade spammers who filled hallways with the nades in hopes of getting a lucky shot, but that was half the fun of the class.

Now you have to be incredibly accurate in order to get a hit with the grenade launcher making the demoman's offensive capability completely nill. If you look at any other class you can see how they have some form of offense, whether it be a medic backing up a heavy or an engineering putting a well placed sentry on the front lines that also happens to be out of sight.

I find it hard to enjoy any other class in this game and so this nerf was way too much for me. I'll still play demoman but with a vengeful fury and angry bitterness directed towards whoever makes these stupid balance changes.
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So you don't play this game more because his role, as a defensive class, is now more of what they meant it for?
 
Thats what I keep saying.

People who mainly play as demoman think theyre doing much better than anyone else and will obviously whine about the tweaks.

They just ignore the fact that they have to do little to no effort in order to get ontop of the scoreboad.

****ing arrogance.
 
Iron_cube said:
Thats what I keep saying.

People who mainly play as demoman think theyre doing much better than anyone else and will obviously whine about the tweaks.

They just ignore the fact that they have to do little to no effort in order to get ontop of the scoreboad.

****ing arrogance.
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There has been so many times when I was top of the scoreboard as a Demo...so I really don't understand the fuss. They still do great in the right hands.
 
I rarely get kills from just spam and pray as the Demoman. I find it's more about being aware where the enemy is and trying to put grenades in that area. This change does devalue his primary weapon but doesn't make it totally useless.

I've found that there are two tactics with his primary weapon, direct hits (they are not that hard) and putting grenades in the right area. That second tactic is now much harder - I'll agree that kill-on-touch was probably overpowered but now I think its too hard. Grenades just take too long to blow up so what I think should be valid tactics (eg. bouncing grenades off walls at the enemy to stay out of their line of sight) aren't valid anymore because people have enough time to run through the grenades rather than rely on the Demomans long reload time to get past.

What I would like to see is grenades that explode at a set time after the first bounce (say <2 seconds). This would give people a chance to avoid/run past them without making anything less than a direct hit next to useless.

Having said all that I just played a game as the Demoman: 20 kills, 20 deaths and a bunch of Assists/Defences/Captures so its not the end of the world.

Iron_cube said:
People thought they were good because they could spit four 200-damage grenades at a fast rate while hiding behind sentryguns.
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I honestly doubt they do 200 each - the majority of my direct hits don't kill the enemy.
 
Operational said:
I rarely get kills from just spam and pray as the Demoman. I find it's more about being aware where the enemy is and trying to put grenades in that area. This change does devalue his primary weapon but doesn't make it totally useless.

I've found that there are two tactics with his primary weapon, direct hits (they are not that hard) and putting grenades in the right area. That second tactic is now much harder - I'll agree that kill-on-touch was probably overpowered but now I think its too hard. Grenades just take too long to blow up so what I think should be valid tactics (eg. bouncing grenades off walls at the enemy to stay out of their line of sight) aren't valid anymore because people have enough time to run through the grenades rather than rely on the Demomans long reload time to get past.

What I would like to see is grenades that explode at a set time after the first bounce (say <2 seconds). This would give people a chance to avoid/run past them without making anything less than a direct hit next to useless.

Having said all that I just played a game as the Demoman: 20 kills, 20 deaths and a bunch of Assists/Defences/Captures so its not the end of the world.


I honestly doubt they do 200 each - the majority of my direct hits don't kill the enemy.
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Just about every one of my shots require 2, even to a scout...
 
Personally, my only complaint is that his gun doesn't fire fast enough.

Maybe I'm just too used to TFC, but I think the demoman needs to be a bit more spammy.
Possibly add 2 or 3 more grenades to his gun too?
 
I've played with Demoman for a bit, and although he isn't "unplayable" as mrxskinny is saying, his primary grenades are definitely useless once they touch ground for the first time. Right now, there's no point in bouncing them around corners or over obstacles, which beats one of the main points of being a Demo(indirect fire). The problem is that they're way too weak. I've seen 3 grenades explode right at a Pyro's feet and it did little more than make him bounce a bit into the air.

If Valve want to keep this nerf, they should definitely increase the damage and/or splash range of non-direct explosions. Maybe lower the time it takes for them to explode.
 
I'd say give the grenade launcher a capacity of 6 rounds. Also, a bigger area of splash damage (but not more damage) and make it possible to detonate sticky bombs right after launching them, the current delay is annoying like with the SLAM in HL2DM.
 
Operational said:
I rarely get kills from just spam and pray as the Demoman. I find it's more about being aware where the enemy is and trying to put grenades in that area. This change does devalue his primary weapon but doesn't make it totally useless.

I've found that there are two tactics with his primary weapon, direct hits (they are not that hard) and putting grenades in the right area. That second tactic is now much harder - I'll agree that kill-on-touch was probably overpowered but now I think its too hard. Grenades just take too long to blow up so what I think should be valid tactics (eg. bouncing grenades off walls at the enemy to stay out of their line of sight) aren't valid anymore because people have enough time to run through the grenades rather than rely on the Demomans long reload time to get past.

What I would like to see is grenades that explode at a set time after the first bounce (say <2 seconds). This would give people a chance to avoid/run past them without making anything less than a direct hit next to useless.

Having said all that I just played a game as the Demoman: 20 kills, 20 deaths and a bunch of Assists/Defences/Captures so its not the end of the world.


I honestly doubt they do 200 each - the majority of my direct hits don't kill the enemy.
Click to expand...

This covers my complaints. One thing I noticed about the near hit prob seems to take place on certain servers. So you get this crap where it seems to bounce off the enemy and keep going as apposed to going off on direct hit.
 
PvtRyan said:
I'd say give the grenade launcher a capacity of 6 rounds...and make it possible to detonate sticky bombs right after launching them.
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Agreed. And grenades really are useless after they hit the ground atm. Valve need to either reintroduce the on-contact explosions, or increase the amount or area of splash damage.
 
I agree with everything said. Increase capacity to something like 6, larger splash damage (perhaps slightly more push too, but not really important), and immediate triggering of stickies.
 
The sticky bombs are your friend. If you're pissed off at the demo being crappy learn to use the sticky bombs to better effect.

One demo can basically shut down one passage way EASily.
 
Synthos said:
The sticky bombs are your friend. If you're pissed off at the demo being crappy learn to use the sticky bombs to better effect.

One demo can basically shut down one passage way EASily.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I love having the intel down, I just put 3-4 stickies in the same spot under it,a nd the second they pick it up, BOOM!

Ahh great fun.
 
Demoman stickies can be like the only way to win in places... such as the second dustbowl map, second cap point where a good defense will have all those sentries around the corner. Combined with medic invincibility, that is...
 
I refrained from voting...At first I really didn't like the change because it made certain tactics impossible...
For instance, you can no longer lay down four grenades in the path of you enemy/enemies to hold them back on bridges and corridors because they can just run through them and rush you....
You can no longer bounce grenades round corners an have them explode on contact with people/sentry guns etc....
Even though I miss using these tactics the demoman is still good...Before the nerf I was just starting to think they were great though...
People should fear the grenades...now they only have to dodge ones that haven't bounced off anything yet, which isn't that hard to do if you keep moving...
I do feel that he has no way to hold people back now with his primary weapon...
 
Good change! I got 24 kills in a row without dieing as the demoman, was too easy.
 
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