Who will/would you vote in the November US presidential election?

[Maskirovka]

Yeah .. part of the problem is the liberal media tries to hide things like that and everybody has the wrong idea. It took me a while to even find that article on Google.

i watch fox news and didn't hear anything about that. don't try to tell me that fox news is liberal media...it's owned, and most of its shows are hosted by, conservatives. also, bush didn't complain about the "liberal media hiding things like that" when he was on a national TV interview today....

the liberal media is a myth, bud...there are 2349240798 conservative radio talk show hosts...and i listen to them, too...i like to hear the BS from both the left AND the right...and i heard nothing.

 

[Jmechy]

where is the "Whoever can beat bush" option?

 

[LoneDeranger]

i watch fox news and didn't hear anything about that. don't try to tell me that fox news is liberal media...it's owned, and most of its shows are hosted by, conservatives. also, bush didn't complain about the "liberal media hiding things like that" when he was on a national TV interview today....

the liberal media is a myth, bud...there are 2349240798 conservative radio talk show hosts...and i listen to them, too...i like to hear the BS from both the left AND the right...and i heard nothing.

Well no matter how you put it, the media FAILED, ONCE AGAIN at doing it's job. Sad really. They would rather talk about JAckson's boob for 24 hours than report real news.

Heck, I even think this is one of the major reasons for the decline of Al Queda (along with the Nov. 2003 bombing which killed mostly arabs .. you probably haven't heard of this either) and nobody knows about it! This is ridiculous.

 

[slider3005]

ok first off Maskirovka and GhostValkyrie you are both very american, thats what americans (not ONLY americans) are suppossed to do, argue about politics. Second, N. korea built its nukes so that people would give them cash. Kim may be out to help his country but he is still an asshole. He is threatening to nuke unless people give him money. If i was president i would go in there and kick his ass on principle alone (not sure if that makes sense but it sounded kewl from "megalomaniac" Incubus rlz) any way, i wouldnt give the bastard money

 

[not28]

I'm not old enough to vote, but if I was, I would vote for Kerry or Dean (HEEEYAHHHHH). I hate George Bush. Terrorism is the communism of this generation.

I wonder if I willl ever live to see another American Civil War... only it wouldn't be North versus South, it would be Left versus Right.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

I'll tell you how Iraq benifits US:

No US troops in Saudi Arabia.

Do you remember why Bin Laden hates the US so much? Saudi Arabia is home to some of the holliest Muslim places on Earth, and Iraq .. well isn't.

So, in effect, we moved from a bigger problem to a much smaller one.

thats somewhat of an uneducated answer, last i checked, saudi arabia didn't get 500 US soldiers killed like iraq, and the number is still rising. As for not attacking N. Korea, this is why, *they actually have a shot at defending themselves and could cause major damage to US so Bush would rather ignore it and pick on someone that's an easy win and can get free votes*

 

[qckbeam]

ok first off Maskirovka and GhostValkyrie you are both very american, thats what americans (not ONLY americans) are suppossed to do, argue about politics. Second, N. korea built its nukes so that people would give them cash. Kim may be out to help his country but he is still an asshole. He is threatening to nuke unless people give him money. If i was president i would go in there and kick his ass on principle alone (not sure if that makes sense but it sounded kewl from "megalomaniac" Incubus rlz) any way, i wouldnt give the bastard money

he doesn't want money, he isn't holding the world at gunpoint and demanding anything. He simply said that he would be willing to give up all of his nukes, and his weapons with a range of over 300 miles in return for a place in the global economy. We should do this, it would help the people of North Korea out a hell of a lot more than a war or blockade would, it eliminates the weapons threat, and it could potentially allow for a democratic North Korea after Kim's time is up, if not democratic, then at least much less closed off, and on much better terms with the US and the world.

 

[LoneDeranger]

thats somewhat of an uneducated answer, last i checked, saudi arabia didn't get 500 US soldiers killed like iraq, and the number is still rising. As for not attacking N. Korea, this is why, *they actually have a shot at defending themselves and could cause major damage to US so Bush would rather ignore it and pick on someone that's an easy win and can get free votes*

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for out troops in Iraq.

But: I'll take 500 dead troops over 3,000 people dead in a Sept 11-style terrorist attack any day.


And North Korea? They can ANNIHILATE South Korea, not just do some damage. And no, we don't have the capability to defend them. Heck, even if we can destroy all their nuclear silos they will still overrun Seoul with conventional forces.

 

[DimitriPopov]

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for out troops in Iraq.

But: I'll take 500 dead troops over 3,000 people dead in a Sept 11-style terrorist attack any day.


And North Korea? They can ANNIHILATE South Korea, not just do some damage. And no, we don't have the capability to defend them. Heck, even if we can destroy all their nuclear silos they will still overrun Seoul with conventional forces.

Jon you had a fairly uneducated answer. Bin Ladens snapping point was the stationing of US forces in Saudi Arabia for the first Gulf War. If we get our troops out of Saudi Arabia , Bin Laden will have a little less to justify his craziness.

 

[fizzlephox]

So far Kerry's winning by far. By that I am assuming (rightfully so) that the majority who voted for someone besides Bush would choose Kerry if it was between the two (which it will be). I am not saying that a forum poll represents the real coming elections, so don't say that my assumption is useless since it's only a forum poll, I know that.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

Jon you had a fairly uneducated answer. Bin Ladens snapping point was the stationing of US forces in Saudi Arabia for the first Gulf War. If we get our troops out of Saudi Arabia , Bin Laden will have a little less to justify his craziness.

so i guess invading iraq and now having an open front for terrorists to easily get into the country and kill yur soldiers is better? Bin Laden isn't looking for justification.

As for the comment on taking 3000+ killed on 9/11 over 500+ in iraq, u now have both, and the count in iraq is increasing practically 2 a day on average and apparently u still have several years left there at least so whose to say it wont reach over 3000 by the time its over.

 

[Maskirovka]

i'd rather have heavily armed and trained troops fighting terrorists on foreign soil then have terrorists killing civilians here. every terrorist/al-qaeda type we kill in iraq is one that will never participate in anything like 9/11. if the terrorists want to suicide bomb our well-prepared troops instead of soft targets, that's fine with me...it's their loss.

 

[Letters]

More than two people die a day in just one state of the U.S....

 

[fizzlephox]

More than two people die a day in just one state of the U.S....

Yah, overall Terrorism is probably one of the lowest causes of death in the U.S. right above having a piano fall on you.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

i'd rather have heavily armed and trained troops fighting terrorists on foreign soil then have terrorists killing civilians here. every terrorist/al-qaeda type we kill in iraq is one that will never participate in anything like 9/11. if the terrorists want to suicide bomb our well-prepared troops instead of soft targets, that's fine with me...it's their loss.

a lot of the iraqi soldiers US killed wouldn't have participated in anything like 9/11 anyways.

More than 2 people die in each state every day obviously, but what does that have to do with the argument.

 

[Maskirovka]

yea...we spend billions on fighting the cause of 3,000 deaths, but we won't spend billions to get people off their asses and stop heart disease from being the #1 killer of men and women in the US.

rising cost of health care...lol...look at all the fat people and their medical problems. if they want to give out tax cuts, give tax cuts to healthy people because they're less of a drain on medicare.

 

[Maskirovka]

a lot of the iraqi soldiers US killed wouldn't have participated in anything like 9/11 anyways

i'm not talking about iraqis. i'm talking about the syrians, saudis, etc. that have come into iraq to fight against US troops. i said "every terrorist/al-qaeda type" not "every iraqi soldier"

of course iraqi soldiers wouldn't participate in 9/11-like attacks.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

i'm not talking about iraqis. i'm talking about the syrians, saudis, etc. that have come into iraq to fight against US troops. i said "every terrorist/al-qaeda type" not "every iraqi soldier"

of course iraqi soldiers wouldn't participate in 9/11-like attacks.

ah, well still, a lot of the suicide bombers wouldn't have the opportunity to attack US citizens were it not for US occupation in Iraq.

 

[LoneDeranger]

yea...we spend billions on fighting the cause of 3,000 deaths, but we won't spend billions to get people off their asses and stop heart disease from being the #1 killer of men and women in the US.

rising cost of health care...lol...look at all the fat people and their medical problems. if they want to give out tax cuts, give tax cuts to healthy people because they're less of a drain on medicare.

Poor fat people. Maybe we should give them more money to spend on heart transplants and juicy, biggie-size McDonald's tripple hamburgers!

I lost 30 pounds in 1 month with just diet and excersize. They can do the same.

Yeah there are some people who have a genetic condition, but it's like 0.1% of the population.

 

[Spiffae]

I know I support his space program, the War in Iraq and Afghanistan, stance against abortion, Faith based initiatives, and other programs.

War: fine, your choice.

Abortion: Let's make a few assumptions. 1. You live in the south. 2. You are male. 3. You are white. How am I doing so far? Ok, then let me as you a question. What the hell do white southern men know that everyone else doesn't that makes them feel like they know, better than a woman, what kind of reproductive healtcare she needs? Is there something the rest of the world is missing? Who are you to judge what women can and can't do?

Faith-Based Garbage: Do you remember the separation of Church and State? Remember how that was a cornerstone of our country's policies? Remember how this country offers freedom of worship to everyone who sets foot on it's shores? Keep that in mind when you force your Jesus is Lord crap down the throats of every public school kid in the nation, regardless of who they are and what they believe.

Wow, the religious right makes me sick. I'm glad there are some intelligent liberals here.

 

[Letters]

Don't be ridiculous, men are allowed to have opinions on abortion.

 

[fizzlephox]

I agree, just not very good opinions.

 

[Spiffae]

Seems like a lot of the same old sexist BS all over again. Men making decisions that concern women, just exerting another little bit of control that they don't deserve. If a woman is pro-life, good for her. She shouldn't get an abortion. But who is George Bush to say that the woman who is pro-choice can't have her choice?

Answer: A monkey.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

ok first off Maskirovka and GhostValkyrie you are both very american, thats what americans (not ONLY americans) are suppossed to do, argue about politics. Second, N. korea built its nukes so that people would give them cash. Kim may be out to help his country but he is still an asshole. He is threatening to nuke unless people give him money. If i was president i would go in there and kick his ass on principle alone (not sure if that makes sense but it sounded kewl from "megalomaniac" Incubus rlz) any way, i wouldnt give the bastard money

I agree. And, even if he wasn't making threats, I'd kick his ass for starving the people, and putting protestors in Concentration Camps. Last time I checked, people did something about Genocide.

 

[Spiffae]

Latest Tally:
Republicans: 28.5% (10)
Democrats: 71.5% (25)

 

[GhostValkyrie]

War: fine, your choice.

Abortion: Let's make a few assumptions. 1. You live in the south. 2. You are male. 3. You are white. How am I doing so far? Ok, then let me as you a question. What the hell do white southern men know that everyone else doesn't that makes them feel like they know, better than a woman, what kind of reproductive healtcare she needs? Is there something the rest of the world is missing? Who are you to judge what women can and can't do?

Faith-Based Garbage: Do you remember the separation of Church and State? Remember how that was a cornerstone of our country's policies? Remember how this country offers freedom of worship to everyone who sets foot on it's shores? Keep that in mind when you force your Jesus is Lord crap down the throats of every public school kid in the nation, regardless of who they are and what they believe.

Wow, the religious right makes me sick. I'm glad there are some intelligent liberals here.

When did I say we should force our beliefs down the throats of others? I have you know a few of my friends are Athiests, and my bestfriend is Agnostic. I never said such a thing. I simply said I support Faith Based Initiatives. Like helping the development of churches. I'm religious, of course I'm going to support a church getting aid. As for Abortion, I'm against the murder of the innocent; Period.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Seems like a lot of the same old sexist BS all over again. Men making decisions that concern women, just exerting another little bit of control that they don't deserve. If a woman is pro-life, good for her. She shouldn't get an abortion. But who is George Bush to say that the woman who is pro-choice can't have her choice?

Answer: A monkey.

See, this kind of attitude is what might make me vote for Bush afterall. I see these liberals running around with silly posters and calling Bush a monkey. And here in NYC there are these little stickers everywhere that say stuff like "BUSH LIES"

So I'm thinking to myself .. am I really one of them? One of these stupid college kids who think they are hippies or something? Hell no.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Latest Tally:
Republicans: 28.5% (10)
Democrats: 71.5% (25)

Yep, although I believe our international colleagues contributed overwhelmingly to the Democratic side (this is a British forum, afterall).

 

[GhostValkyrie]

See, this kind of attitude is what might make me vote for Bush afterall. I see these liberals running around with silly posters and calling Bush a monkey. And here in NYC there are these little stickers everywhere that say stuff like "BUSH LIES"

So I'm thinking to myself .. am I really one of them? One of these stupid college kids who think they are hippies or something? Hell no.

w00t, my friend, w00t!

 

[qckbeam]

When did I say we should force our beliefs down the throats of others? I have you know a few of my friends are Athiests, and my bestfriend is Agnostic. I never said such a thing. I simply said I support Faith Based Initiatives. Like helping the development of churches. I'm religious, of course I'm going to support a church getting aid. As for Abortion, I'm against the murder of the innocent; Period.

Ghost, "faith based initiatives" are bad. The government should never have their hands in religion, ever. This country was founded with the idea that the church would be separated from the state. Bad things happen when they mix. Abortion, well, I personally don't think it's a good thing, but I will never impose my beliefs on others, and the government shouldn't impose theirs either. Abortion should remain a womans choice.

See, this kind of attitude is what might make me vote for Bush afterall. I see these liberals running around with silly posters and calling Bush a monkey. And here in NYC there are these little stickers everywhere that say stuff like "BUSH LIES"

So I'm thinking to myself .. am I really one of them? One of these stupid college kids who think they are hippies or something? Hell no.

You actually decide who you are going to vote for based upon that criteria? You don't want to vote against Bush because you don't want to be associated with these Hippies you speak of? How can that even be a factor?

 

[fizzlephox]

I'm pro communist. Actually I'm not. I'm undecided.

 

[Spiffae]

See, this kind of attitude is what might make me vote for Bush afterall. I see these liberals running around with silly posters and calling Bush a monkey. And here in NYC there are these little stickers everywhere that say stuff like "BUSH LIES"

So I'm thinking to myself .. am I really one of them? One of these stupid college kids who think they are hippies or something? Hell no.

First of all college has nothing to do with it, neither do hippies. I can't change what you think, and the bottom line is that everyone should vote their conscience, not what social scene you want to be associated with.

It doesn't really matter what you vote. Living in Brooklyn, you are most likely going to contribute to a very small republican showing in what is an incredibly strong democratic state. Bush won't get NY's electoral college votes.

Are you registered to vote? What's your affiliation?

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Ghost, "faith based initiatives" are bad. The government should never have their hands in religion, ever. This country was founded with the idea that the church would be separated from the state. Bad things happen when they mix. Abortion, well, I personally don't think it's a good thing, but I will never impose my beliefs on others, and the government shouldn't impose theirs either. Abortion should remain a womans choice.

Excuse me? This country was founded on the basis of Freedom, not Separation or Chuch and State. That didn't even happen a Century ago. This country was actually founded on the basis of God. You were allowed to freely worship a God or not, but it was founded on the basis that there was one.


"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Key word is Amendment, this wasn't in the original Constitution. At the time of the Constitution, this country was very Christian. You can still see the words, "In God we trust.", on money today.

 

[LoneDeranger]

First of all college has nothing to do with it, neither do hippies. I can't change what you think, and the bottom line is that everyone should vote their conscience, not what social scene you want to be associated with.

It doesn't really matter what you vote. Living in Brooklyn, you are most likely going to contribute to a very small republican showing in what is an incredibly strong democratic state. Bush won't get NY's electoral college votes.

Are you registered to vote? What's your affiliation?

I'm an independent :cheese:

I know this is a fully Democratic state, but we have some surprise Republicans (Pataki and Bloomberg), none of whom I particularly like. Yeah, you're not gona see me voting for Bloomberg in the next election, that's for sure.

 

[mchammer75040]

lol I was one out of 3 that choosed Al...if hitler was on the list..I would have picked hitler....yumm...

 

[Spiffae]

Key word is Amendment, this wasn't in the original Constitution. At the time of the Constitution, this country was very Christian. You can still see the words, "In God we trust.", on money today.

So, if the constitution was ammended, the ammendments are null and void? so we're working on a government that's based on the original constitution, minus the progress that's been made over the years?

So, does that mean that if bush passes the absurd ammendment that his admistration is working up to ban gay marriage, it doesn't count, because it's an ammendment?

You're more conservative than i thought.

 

[LoneDeranger]

You actually decide who you are going to vote for based upon that criteria? You don't want to vote against Bush because you don't want to be associated with these Hippies you speak of? How can that even be a factor?

Like I said before, if I weight all the issues, I'm basically 50/50 right now.

And little things like that could push me to one direction or another. And I don't really care if my vote doesn't make a difference, it's still fun

 

[Letters]

So, if the constitution was ammended, the ammendments are null and void? so we're working on a government that's based on the original constitution, minus the progress that's been made over the years?

So, does that mean that if bush passes the absurd ammendment that his admistration is working up to ban gay marriage, it doesn't count, because it's an ammendment?

You're more conservative than i thought.

That has nothing to do with what principle the country was founded on...

 

[GhostValkyrie]

So, if the constitution was ammended, the ammendments are null and void? so we're working on a government that's based on the original constitution, minus the progress that's been made over the years?

So, does that mean that if bush passes the absurd ammendment that his admistration is working up to ban gay marriage, it doesn't count, because it's an ammendment?

You're more conservative than i thought.

No, no, no. That's not what I meant at all.
I was only talking about the founding elements. The Amendments count very much. Without them, serious issues that we face today would surely be all the more unaddressed. They would say, "Well, we can't amend the constitution. Therefor, this is unconstitutional."
I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I was only talking about the foundation.
This country wasn't founded on the basis of no affiliation between church state.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

.. wow.. well, now i remember why i don't come here anymore :|

i voted for kerry, but would vote for anyone over bush (with the possible exception of kucinich, i'd probably abstain). seriously, not28 had it right. terrorism is about control through fear. control of american voters through fear of death. it's exactly analogous to the red-scare. it's selling the news with violence and death. we've known for a long long time that fear holds sway over all things, this is nothing new, just a different package.

sure 9/11 was terrible, but the war in iraq has nothing to do with the people that died in the WTC. if you're really concerned about terrorism, then invading iraq is the last thing you want to do. simply put, we're giving justification to future terrorists. we destroyed a non-threat (bathist-iraq) and have most likely created thousands of future threats. in addition, in a few years iraq will most likely become either a fundamentalist dictatorship or a pseudo-colonial state ruled by US corporations via a puppet gvmt. the latter option wouldn't be so bad except it's almost guaranteed that the country would be racked by domestic terroism and more unstable than it was under the bathists. score one for the ****ing team!

i'm an american. it makes me sick to see americans so either delusional, stupid, careless or selfish as to simply not recognize that the bush administration is ruining our future in many ways. points are well made that terrorism is one of the least of our worries. selling the US to the enemy? look in the mirror bush-supporters. border-security? bush-friendly american coporations? this country is being turned for a quick buck by the bush family and friends. it's plain and simple. wake up you damn sheep.

on the flip side: bin laden and kim jong il, from all accounts cannot be counted on to act logically. jong il should know (as all first-year poli-sci students learn) that revolts happen when you give the people you subjugate a glimpse of the better life. it's been played out time and time again. if jong il wants to stay in power, the last thing he'd do is turn the lights on. this is of course assuming he's even sane enough to recognize that. also, as was correctly pointed out, the us (potentially) pulling out of saudi arabia would have no effect on bin ladens ire, except perhpas to imbolden him.

the point? iraq was a non-issue that grabs votes from thoughtless war-hawks. if anything it has weakend US security. time money and lives were wasted on a blow-hard and not put towards eliminating the real threats (small as they are to be sure). indeed, we've probably made more terrorists.

pessimistic huh? what to do? reorganize the ****ing country. stop medling in other peoples business and focus on making this country strong, from the inside. economy.. schools.. there's plenty wrong right here. much more damage is being caused to my country by the uninformed, uninvolved people oozing through the school systems into predominantly dead-end service jobs than any imginary WMDs in lands far-away.

if you support this war in iraq, you're supporting the treating of a problem by attacking the symptoms. sometimes this is a necessary course of action, and it could probably be argued that it was necessary in this case (i believe it was in the case of afghanistan but not iraq). but the cause of the problem remains long after we've broken iraq into fractious pieces. to put it lightly, the US has an image problem in most of the world, and the actions of this president only perpetuate that. bush makes us an easier a target while fueling more hated.. while weakening our borders, our economy, and discrediting our allies.. while encouraging the worst of politics, nepotism, and oligarchy and/or religious rule (america?? hey you can move to iran and get that now!).

pray to your god that i have the strength to stay away from these forums.