Who's more important: You or Valve/Steam/Gaming Industry etc

[COMBO RICO]

I don't mind having a few secruity checks when gettin the game or whatever they need to do, but at this very moment i'm wanting to play my half life 2, and well it's been 8 minutes so far validating steam files that have already been checked over 4 times. How much is too much? I think valve needs to cut back. I'm tired of waiting for steam to allow me to play my game!

 

[Sharrd]

That's not what it's about; they need to tweak Steam.

 

[Odysseus]

Either live with it or do the wrong thing and download the forbidden version.

 

[COMBO RICO]

I dunno, all i know its about 12 minutes in and its 60% done and its impeding my playing. This has happened quite a bit, finally decided to bitch
Edit: live with it? thats the kinda attitude that leads to no where but more trouble

 

[Bedwetting Type]

Um... I don't think that's supposed to happen. Is this the first time you've tried to run it?

 

[COMBO RICO]

no i've been playin it since release. it does it every 3 days or so

 

[Hectic Glenn]

It means you can play the game legally, and those idiots who get it illegally cant play. Would you prefer to be cheated out your money as some people laugh at you for spending your earned cash while they got it free. Its only a small cost of waiting for the overal result benefits all us with legal copies.

edit : w00t 500 posts hehe

 

[COMBO RICO]

i hear there is already a completely cracked version and if there isn't it will be. i know as of right now someone is most likely playin it who didn't pay for it while i'm waiting cuz i decide to validate. i'm not against the secruity its just too much, too intrusive?

Edit: well its finally done, i'm gunna go play some half life 2. ehhh. until next 20 minute validation lol

 

[chrispo]

does no one realise that if all game companies follow.....we'll all be stuck with games we've bought, unable to sell them or part ex them......theyll be no secound hand market.........if you buy a crap game tough!........no more cover disk updates/patches...........only online updates............

 

[spencerjrus]

does no one realise that if all game companies follow.....we'll all be stuck with games we've bought, unable to sell them or part ex them......theyll be no secound hand market.........if you buy a crap game tough!........no more cover disk updates/patches...........only online updates............

Oh yes but I love the alternative, make pirating games easy so that it no longer becomes profitable to make good games and developers stop doing it. Way to go Einstein.

 

[Eon Blue]

Gaming industry as a whole.

 

[Sharrd]

I doubt the developers even approve of the second hand market, no profit at all to them.

 

[spencerjrus]

Anything that makes more money for developers without directly screwing me over is a good thing in my book. Developers with more money = higher budget and higher quality games in shorter amounts of time.

 

[Sharrd]

Anything that makes more money for developers without directly screwing me over is a good thing in my book. Developers with more money = higher budget and higher quality games in shorter amounts of time.

I'm pretty sure these people do feel like they're being directly screwed over, though. But look at it like this: if you(this goes out to the ones complaining) were receiving games for free, but then had to pay money because the makers wanted some profit, would you think they were bad people? You'd probably be annoyed at it, but I doubt you'd think it was unfair. This is essentially the same thing.

 

[conquistador69]

I don't see how one follows from the other at all, sorry. Of course, we're supposed to pay for goods, to compensate and motivate the maker. This has nothing to do with whether it's OK for that maker to give you a locked product in exchange for your money, and then he gets to unlock it for you if he decides it's the right thing to do.

 

[spencerjrus]

I don't see how one follows from the other at all, sorry. Of course, we're supposed to pay for goods, to compensate and motivate the maker. This has nothing to do with whether it's OK for that maker to give you a locked product in exchange for your money, and then he gets to unlock it for you if he decides it's the right thing to do.

This exists in many markets, it's not an idea new to gaming by any means.

 

[epmode]

I don't mind having a few secruity checks when gettin the game or whatever they need to do, but at this very moment i'm wanting to play my half life 2, and well it's been 8 minutes so far validating steam files that have already been checked over 4 times. How much is too much? I think valve needs to cut back. I'm tired of waiting for steam to allow me to play my game!

so you've been validated more than once? i mean, after you played the game the first time, your files went through that 10 minute check again? something must be wrong.

i haven't had my files validated since the 16th.

 

[spencerjrus]

if steam keeps revalidating that means something is wrong with your pc or install of the game.

 

[COMBO RICO]

one more thing i forgot to add and just realized, my net was a little glitchy today so i decided i'd play an offline game like hl2 instead of cs-s so try to go into offline mode in steam, and the thing just shuts down and says go to steampowered.com....this is a piss poor direction the gaming secruity is going. warez sure look very good right now.

p.s. for anyone with linksys wireless routers, i suggested u don't install any new patches cuz it was that, that messed up my connection.

 

[The Mullinator]

Good things happening for the game industry as a whole will translate into good things for gamers as individuals.

If pirating goes down then systems like Steam won't be needed as much and the quality of games can be improved.

 

[COMBO RICO]

I think once that system of control is in place, the industry will hold on to it like Smeagol holds on to that damn ring, why would they give it back? There's a lot of people that want to do somethign when there internet is broken or down for some reason or what have u, and i can't play a game cuz one of its requirements is CONSTANT internet access, if i'm wrong with the constant please tell me, but i can't play offline.

I think we need a name for games like this, cuz their definitily not internet independent, offline online games or something heh

 

[Megacolon]

Steam didn't make the game any harder for warez groups to crack. There are 11 WORKING steam-free versions on Bit-Torrent, with hundreds of thousands of downloads completed. And there's no way to disable them, they don't require any kind of internet connection.
All steam does is make it harder for real customers to play. The hackers have no problem with it.

 

[corkscru74]

I don't see how one follows from the other at all, sorry. Of course, we're supposed to pay for goods, to compensate and motivate the maker. This has nothing to do with whether it's OK for that maker to give you a locked product in exchange for your money, and then he gets to unlock it for you if he decides it's the right thing to do.

Might be a good time for you to go back and read every 'End User Licence Agreement' you've skipped past. Windows, Games, Word Processors - everything. The EULA basically states that you don't own the product you've just paid for. You've actually bought the rights to run the program until the real rights owner decides otherwise (not that they're likely to).

Piracy is stealing. If someone went into their local store and stole a game they'd be a dirty little thief - straight up. Downloading the game for free is no different - you're not paying for a product you should be. If Steam is the only effective way to stop Piracy then I'm all for it. Then again, I installed with no problems so maybe I'm biased.

 

[sportythief]

I don't mind having a few secruity checks when gettin the game or whatever they need to do, but at this very moment i'm wanting to play my half life 2, and well it's been 8 minutes so far validating steam files that have already been checked over 4 times. How much is too much? I think valve needs to cut back. I'm tired of waiting for steam to allow me to play my game!

I feel your pain man, I had to wait a very long time, after I paid for my game, to play it as well. I don't think Valve or the gaming industry is to blame though, and yes the consumer is always the most important part of this industry. I think Steam should go over their notes and fix whatever issues they have once and for all. It is a good security check and all, but is can also be very frustrating at times. Until Steam gets a new face all we can do is wait and wait.

 

[Megacolon]

Piracy is stealing. If someone went into their local store and stole a game they'd be a dirty little thief - straight up. Downloading the game for free is no different - you're not paying for a product you should be. If Steam is the only effective way to stop Piracy then I'm all for it. Then again, I installed with no problems so maybe I'm biased.

But it DIDN'T stop piracy. It didn't even slow it down!!
Valve banned a bunch of accounts that were using a voucher exploit, yes. But the real cracked warez versions don't use steam at all, and can't be disabled.
All it does is make it harder for US to play teh game, and scare customers away.
It's a "steam"ing pile of crap!

 

[COMBO RICO]

lol, i do like steam for the friends thing that sometimes works

Edit: but yes i do agree with u megacolon, oh yeah steam validation once again...looks like another 20 minute waiter ....*sighs

 

[justmatt]

The key component to this debate seems to be piracy. I agree that people who do nothing but pirate games are ultimately screwing themselves over. ie: they like good games....it takes money to make good games....and game developers get money from people buying games. Therefore stealing a game ultimately hurts you. Okay...I don't think many people (if any) would argue with that.

Now let's go through the process (as I experienced) of activating this game:

1) Install Steam and HL2 from CD's
2) Steam auto-updates first thing
3) Create/Login to Steam account
4) Activate CD Key through steam
5) Decrypt 4+ GB of game files (HL2 and CS:S)
6) Update HL2
7) Finally.....play the game you paid 50+ dollars for.

As you may have guessed...I'm one of the people who don't have Internet at home. I know this may seem unbelievable to some of you, but bear in mind some of us live on our own and support ourselves and can't afford Internet because they just moved. Oh and one more argument to refute...I have a cell phone and I'm not gonna get a land-line just to activate this game. And yes...I'm perfectly aware that I'm online right now...I'm online at the library (free access). I have an appointment set-up to get Internet access, but I personally felt like my Interests weren't being considered when I found out this game required an activation. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one who wanted to play this game who didn't have Internet.

Now I assume this whole activation thing was setup to keep people from pirating the game, which I applaud in and of itself. The question is though, did it truly work? The answer I'm afraid is: no. The game has already been cracked and pirated so people can download and play single player. So did it prevent pirating? No.... Did it make it a bit harder? I'm not even sure of that. I think it was only a matter of days (or less) before it was up and ready to be downloaded.

Personally, I don't mind all that much having to take my computer to a friend's house to activate the game and get it going. I do, however, think that this Steam stuff is just a BIT ahead of it's time...yes there may be a day when computers/internet are as common-place as TV (I think we're nearly there), but that day isn't now.

Oh....wow that was rambly. Which is more important? The industry or the gamers? It's interesting. Without the gamers there would be no industry, but without the industry would there be gamers? It's definitely a 2-sided relationship, but I personally feel like the industry ultimately owes it's success to the consumers. The problem with copy protection this intense is that it deters the pirates, but at the same time is alienating (some) gamers.

 

[silverstealth89]

omg people just wait the 15 min

 

[COMBO RICO]

i could and did wait the 45 minutes activiation morning (had no problem with this), i then waited every few days for 15 minutes for steam to do its thing, so ultimately i've done 2 hours or so of waiting, its still validating 89% if u want the screen shot i'll send it too every 3 minutes of progress. Good post Justmatt

 

[Megacolon]

it's not JUST the waiting that's annoying, and downright creepy....it's the invasive spyware aspect, compounded with teh feeling that someone's looking over your shoulder all teh time, and being FORCED to have an internet connection to play teh game.
On top of that, there are MANY of us who didn't realise we were paing for our own sodomy when we bought eh game, since nowhere on teh box does it state that we would be subjected to this type of treatment.
They get your money, and THEN it's "Surprise!!!" when you open the box.

 

[Kamakazie]

it says you need a net connection on the back of the box. It was made very clear before the release too.

Having said that it is a bit of a pain but stilll I DONT SEE WHY IT CANT BE MADE UNCRACKABLE!!

why can your copy of HL2 hace a specific, 512kb encrypted cd-key type thing (rather than an algorithm) that steam looks for, steam then accepts the key or not after checking it is a Valid key (key specific, no using an algorithm) on a central database and then only unlocks the game if these match. A 512kb encrypted code would take years to crack id have thought. The only way through it would be to crack HL2 itself and unlock it somehow but surely they can make things secure enough so this cannot be done... with some sort of embeded (encrypted perhaps) code that only steam has the key to as such?!?

im not very good at explaining it as im not exactly technically astute when it comes to programming/coding..... but surely this would work.
How does SSL work afterall.... if encrypted data could be cracked so quickly ud have huge amounts of card fraud going on.

 

[conquistador69]

Might be a good time for you to go back and read every 'End User Licence Agreement' you've skipped past. Windows, Games, Word Processors - everything. The EULA basically states that you don't own the product you've just paid for. You've actually bought the rights to run the program until the real rights owner decides otherwise (not that they're likely to).

Piracy is stealing. If someone went into their local store and stole a game they'd be a dirty little thief - straight up. Downloading the game for free is no different - you're not paying for a product you should be. If Steam is the only effective way to stop Piracy then I'm all for it. Then again, I installed with no problems so maybe I'm biased.

I already covered this in another thread. A company can call a product a "license to use our property", just like I can call a sparrow an elephant. That doesn't make it so. The industry has been pushing very hard to change lead into gold for themselves, for years. The EULAs that you refer to are a big part of that. They do have the upper hand in the legal department right now. But fortunately, we retain a lot of individual choice--unless, of course, we start throwing it away by allowing things like Steam to find their way into our computers.

Piracy is not stealing. I already touched on that too. Stealing is stealing. Forthright purchase is completely honest. Piracy is piracy, and falls somewhere between those two, on the wrongdoing scale. Some people only see black and white, while others see shades of gray. If you can't see the varying degrees, then we can't really have an intelligent conversation with each other.

 

[conquistador69]

it says you need a net connection on the back of the box. It was made very clear before the release too.

Having said that it is a bit of a pain but stilll I DONT SEE WHY IT CANT BE MADE UNCRACKABLE!!

why can your copy of HL2 hace a specific, 512kb encrypted cd-key type thing (rather than an algorithm) that steam looks for, steam then accepts the key or not after checking it is a Valid key (key specific, no using an algorithm) on a central database and then only unlocks the game if these match. A 512kb encrypted code would take years to crack id have thought. The only way through it would be to crack HL2 itself and unlock it somehow but surely they can make things secure enough so this cannot be done... with some sort of embeded (encrypted perhaps) code that only steam has the key to as such?!?

im not very good at explaining it as im not exactly technically astute when it comes to programming/coding..... but surely this would work.
How does SSL work afterall.... if encrypted data could be cracked so quickly ud have huge amounts of card fraud going on.

Codes in consumer software don't need to be cracked by cryptographers. In order for the software to work, or the DVD video to play the movie (etc.) the consumer's machine must get the data, the algorithm and any needed keys. A talented hacker simply needs to intercept this data flow, analyze it, and replicate it. This, by the way, is how the DVD encryption was cracked. The process was facilitated by a weak link in the security (namely, a company which negligently let a code be known), but it would have been cracked eventually anyway, even without the security breach.

Think about it. It cannot be made uncrackable regardless of what you do. Cipher strength has nothing to do with it.