Why are Macs so darn expensive?

[Fliko]

I dunno, I read it somewhere that their hard drives and RAMs have different working architectures. Also they use different file format, HFS+.

Their file system is different, but hardware is still the same. atleast, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

 

[Krynn72]

The only reason anyone should ever get a Mac over a PC is if they're compositors. Apple Shake is fuuuuuuucking sweeeeeeet. And the only PC app which comes close is Nuke, which is confusing as balls.

 

[Rico]

I worked on a macbook pro for a year doing web design, which included photo editing.

Every day I begged for a windows computer.

My favorite part of that year was when my laptop just decided to randomly freeze and therefore destroy my work. Lovely. This then started happening to EVERY SINGLE MAC in our floor of the same model. How old were they? 2 years old.

Apparently it was a "logic board" problem, which is apparently the name they give to motherboards over at Apple world.

Macs are crap because they treat you like you're retarded. They put you in a padded cell with no sharp objects, but hey, what if you need to cut something? Mac's design philosophy seems to be: "If you're a Mac user, chances are you don't know what you're doing. Here, let me open this jar for you before you hurt yourself, idiot. "

No Macs for me, I had enough of them at work :-P

 

[Asus]

The hardware is standard parts.
They may make different choices here and there. Instead of a normal BIOS, Intel Macs have EFI. But EFI is not an Apple invention. It is from Intel.
32bit windows does not support it (64bit does) therefore PCs will probably not switch to the BIOS replacement EFI for a while.

There are video cards labeled Mac editions but they just have different drivers in the box. The hardware is the same basic stuff but priced for Macs. Maybe the tech support is different idk.
And the G5 CPUs used in Mac PowerPCs are IBM CPUs which IBM also has in their blade servers, the PowerPC 970 CPU.

 

[nurizeko]

Why?

Short answer?.

They are fashion accessories.

Like perfume that smells like every other perfume including your cheap brand one, your not buying it for substance, your buying it because of its label.

yea i really do hate when people get in the OSX argument.

Macs are good for what they do,they excel in video and graphic rendering. they are optimized for it. Pcs can do the same but the majority of the time you will have to spend more money on hardware(workstation cards) with windows to match a Mac. So in the end it might even come out to the same price for the same rendering performance.

False.

Your post completely fails because you can custom build a PC to your needs on the relative cheap compared to the price of a new Mac, which realistically is your only option if your Mac packs in to.

 

[xcellerate]

My favorite part of that year was when my laptop just decided to randomly freeze and therefore destroy my work. Lovely.

Right, of course, because nobody has EVER lost work when their windows machine froze. -_-
You can't say macs are bad because they do something that ALL COMPUTERS DO.

Macs are crap because they treat you like you're retarded.

Yea and windows treats it's users like they're bill gates:

-HOLY **** YOU'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM TIME!! I'M GOING TO FREEZE EVERYTHING AND POP A WINDOW ALERTING YOU THAT YOU'RE CHANGING THE SYSTEM TIME!!! MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!

-SHITTING CHRIST!! YOU'RE TRYING TO DOWNLOAD A FILE! I'M GONNA POP UP AN ALERT WINDOW TELLING YOU I'VE DROPPED DOWN A YELLOW INFO BAR, AND JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THE SERIOUSNESS I'M GOING TO MAKE A NOISE!! I REALLY WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DOWNLOAD A FILE!! AHHH!!!


and for like the 9th time, people keep referring to macs as editing machines because AT THE TIME the G processors were superior at straight number crunching, so if you wanted to unsharpen mask a 40mb file in photoshop, then it would filter fastest on a mac.

 

[Moto]

I have a MacBook Pro. It's pretty good for my purposes. It's had a couple issues, but the support has been great. OSX is nice and has some pretty good software. I don't know, I like it.

 

[Kadayi]

-HOLY **** YOU'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM TIME!! I'M GOING TO FREEZE EVERYTHING AND POP A WINDOW ALERTING YOU THAT YOU'RE CHANGING THE SYSTEM TIME!!! MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!

-SHITTING CHRIST!! YOU'RE TRYING TO DOWNLOAD A FILE! I'M GONNA POP UP AN ALERT WINDOW TELLING YOU I'VE DROPPED DOWN A YELLOW INFO BAR, AND JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THE SERIOUSNESS I'M GOING TO MAKE A NOISE!! I REALLY WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DOWNLOAD A FILE!! AHHH!!!

Do you even use OSX? Or do you just loiter around Apple Stores with your nose pressed against the glass and your hands in your pockets dreaming of Steve brutally taking you? As a Pro mac user I can tell you OSX does a whole heap of that 'annoying' permissions shit as well. Except when mac Zealots talk about it, it's because they call them 'security features'. Way to retard. :dozey:

 

[Escaep]

Do you even use OSX? Or do you just loiter around Apple Stores with your nose pressed against the glass and your hands in your pockets dreaming of Steve brutally taking you? As a Pro mac user I can tell you OSX does a whole heap of that 'annoying' permissions shit as well. Except when mac Zealots talk about it, it's because they call them 'security features'. Way to retard. :dozey:

The only permissions stuff I ever run into is when installing stuff.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

I think all Apple stuff aren't overpriced. I bought iPod Nano last week for only 2500 kroons and I am enjoying the **** out of it.

 

[Kadayi]

The only permissions stuff I ever run into is when installing stuff.

That's because your a solo user. When you work across networks it's an entirely different matter.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Do you even use OSX? Or do you just loiter around Apple Stores with your nose pressed against the glass and your hands in your pockets dreaming of Steve brutally taking you? As a Pro mac user I can tell you OSX does a whole heap of that 'annoying' permissions shit as well. Except when mac Zealots talk about it, it's because they call them 'security features'. Way to retard. :dozey:

I would've written off my entire testament to you if you weren't using a Mac. But it's okay, my testament consists predominantly of leftover debts and dog biscuits.

 

[Kadayi]

I would've written off my entire testament to you if you weren't using a Mac. But it's okay, my testament consists predominantly of leftover debts and dog biscuits.

Macs at work.

PCs at home.

 

[CrazyHarij]

The reason Macs cost so much more is you're paying for quality, stable hardware and the conveni---AHAHAHAHAHA sorry I couldn't keep it up.

 

[xcellerate]

Do you even use OSX? Or do you just loiter around Apple Stores with your nose pressed against the glass and your hands in your pockets dreaming of Steve brutally taking you? As a Pro mac user I can tell you OSX does a whole heap of that 'annoying' permissions shit as well. Except when mac Zealots talk about it, it's because they call them 'security features'. Way to retard. :dozey:

I actually work in the IT department of a building that's 90% apple, which is about 250 different apple machines.

And there's a big difference between being trying to do admin actions and being prompted for a password, and trying to change the system time and having the entire OS lock everything down, so you absolutely can not miss the super-urgent-could-not-be-more-important message that you're trying to change the system time.

I still stand by my statement that windows treats it's users more like retards than osx does.

 

[Kadayi]

I still stand by my statement that windows treats it's users more like retards than osx does.

For having a more robust security system in place? :dozey:

 

[xcellerate]

For having a more robust security system in place? :dozey:

Robust is not the word I would use to describe it.

Their method of protection is about as effective as most anti-virus software; scanning everything every time anything ever needs it. So anytime anything ever tries to change the system time vista just prompts you. And while this may be effective it's hardly efficient, and only ends up being so annoying that the first question almost every vista user asks me is: "how can I turn that annoying security thing off?"

I think if your protective software is so obtrusive/annoying that people are willing to run the risk of not using it, you've created something far from 'robust' software. In fact I can't even think of one person that voluntarily uses UAC...

 

[Kadayi]

Robust is not the word I would use to describe it.

Their method of protection is about as effective as most anti-virus software; scanning everything every time anything ever needs it. So anytime anything ever tries to change the system time vista just prompts you. And while this may be effective it's hardly efficient, and only ends up being so annoying that the first question almost every vista user asks me is: "how can I turn that annoying security thing off?"

I think if your protective software is so obtrusive/annoying that people are willing to run the risk of not using it, you've created something far from 'robust' software. In fact I can't even think of one person that voluntarily uses UAC...

Apple trades off of the fact no one gives a damn about making a serious effort to hack them, over being truly safe. As for UAC I've left it running since I installed Vista way back last year, I don't have a problem with it overall. In fact that's probably because I'm desensitized to it from having to deal with it pretty much every day on the work Macs. :dozey:

 

[PvtRyan]

UAC is not about security. Microsoft put UAC in place to force developers to assume users do not have admin privileges, instead of assuming that they do, like they've been doing for years. Microsoft is trying to fix this now, and this will involve some temporary pain. This isn't a problem on OSX/Linux because developers haven't been writing programs that unnecessarily demand elevated rights for years and years.

UAC only pops up for me when I want to actually make a change to the system, like installing something, or viewing something only an privileged user can view, or with badly designed applications.

If UAC is just an annoying pop-up to you where you just hit enter, you're doing something wrong: apparently you're running as an administrator, which basically voids any comments about security that you make. I can't mindlessly hit enter, I have to enter a password which forces me to think about what I'm about to do.

And yes, changing system time is a change to the system and it would be arbitrary and inconsistent to absolve this of UAC. Windows 7 allows you to turn off UAC for these kind of changes, but I think that's a step back. Same for putting back administrators (Vista doesn't know real administrators like XP).

 

[Rico]

I actually work in the IT department of a building that's 90% apple, which is about 250 different apple machines.

And there's a big difference between being trying to do admin actions and being prompted for a password, and trying to change the system time and having the entire OS lock everything down, so you absolutely can not miss the super-urgent-could-not-be-more-important message that you're trying to change the system time.

I still stand by my statement that windows treats it's users more like retards than osx does.

I used to do IT support for my university. I dealt with a TON of macs and letm e assure you, people get them for the "cool factor" not because it makes them more effective workers. We once had to get a brand new top of tej line I-MAc priced at around 3k for the head of payroll. We changed her dell for one of those. We set it up so it was as perfect as any newbie could get it, and even gave her a 2 hour training session on how to use it.

The next day we get a call asking us to install Windows on her mac, because she couldn't figure stuff out.

From personal experience I can tell you we had far more people calling us about problems with their Macs than we did PCs. And they cost a ton more. What huge advantages do they provide to justify the difference in cost?

 

[Kadayi]

If UAC is just an annoying pop-up to you where you just hit enter, you're doing something wrong: apparently you're running as an administrator, which basically voids any comments about security that you make. I can't mindlessly hit enter, I have to enter a password which forces me to think about what I'm about to do.

Likewise, and I like it like that.

 

[Escaep]

I used to do IT support for my university. I dealt with a TON of macs and letm e assure you, people get them for the "cool factor" not because it makes them more effective workers.

I've actually found I am more productive on OSX than Windows. I dunno what it is but I just seem to be more efficient and am able to be more organized on OSX than in Windows.

The next day we get a call asking us to install Windows on her mac, because she couldn't figure stuff out.

She should have given it more time. I was frustrated for quite a while trying to figure out how to do stuff on OSX after switching from Windows. But once I figured it out I enjoyed it tons more than Windows.

 

[Krynn72]

I used to do IT support for my university. I dealt with a TON of macs and letm e assure you, people get them for the "cool factor" not because it makes them more effective workers. We once had to get a brand new top of tej line I-MAc priced at around 3k for the head of payroll. We changed her dell for one of those. We set it up so it was as perfect as any newbie could get it, and even gave her a 2 hour training session on how to use it.

The next day we get a call asking us to install Windows on her mac, because she couldn't figure stuff out.

From personal experience I can tell you we had far more people calling us about problems with their Macs than we did PCs. And they cost a ton more. What huge advantages do they provide to justify the difference in cost?

To be fair, that sounds more like a case of being unwilling to learn a new process than the OS being inferior.

 

[xcellerate]

The next day we get a call asking us to install Windows on her mac, because she couldn't figure stuff out.

From personal experience I can tell you we had far more people calling us about problems with their Macs than we did PCs. And they cost a ton more.

Weird, because nobody who didn't need it, has ever asked to have windows installed on their mac. In fact just this year I've already replaced 2 perfectly fine dells with iMacs because the employees ASKED me too. So what now? Do our experiences cancel each other out and make the argument useless?

A 13.1" dell laptop is going to cost nearly the same as a macbook once you install vista 64bit, bluetooth, and a webcam. I think I had actual prices a few pages back where it was like a $100 difference. The price difference comes from the companies ideas of what 'base model' means. Like how a base model audi might have leather seats, but a base model civic is cloth.

Apple trades off of the fact no one gives a damn about making a serious effort to hack them, over being truly safe.

So wouldn't it make sense that if less people are concerned with infecting OSX, then you're safer being on OSX? Only one of the machines at work has been infected before, it was a dell, xp sp3, and it was running mcafee enterprise 8.5i.

 

[Maxi]

As a working photographer, macs make me more productive. It's not because of the harware or the pretty case, it's because of OS X. Finder is so much better than windows explorer, hotkeys work way better and the interface just seem snappier. Also Time Machine is awesome, saved me a couple of times (once when my laptop got stolen, never leave a bag unatended, anywhere...). As far as I know, there is no Time Machine clone on the windows side that will seamlessly backup everything that requiers no input from the user.

Another thing I've learned to hate on the windows side is the "Are you sure you want to XXX?" I mean shit, I clicked the button OFCOURSE I want to do XXX... There are virtually none of these on the mac side.

And since Macs are built by apple (or well, the hardware is chosen) they customize the drivers to the hardware in your computer. I've never had any problems with my two macbooks, one was a Rev B macbook from Late 2006 and the current one is from Jan 08. The only problems I've heard about are in the Rev A products (the ones immediately following release, they almost always have some annoying hardware bug).

In bold.

And because the consumer has to pay for the advertisements that brought him to the product.


Since we're on the topic - why are Macs associated with graphic artists? What's so more convenient, compared to the PC?

I'd say OS X is. For me it's because the OS makes better use of the keyboard, I can navigate with it much easier. Expos? is wonderfull and I can't live without Quicksilver anymore. Windows has a similar porgram called Colibri, but it doesn't come close. Also Apples spotligt is way better than windows search.

Apples UI is also more clean, none of that aero stuff. Helps you concentrate on the work at hand, not at the UI. Also small stuff is nice, if you have a few hundred files in a folder, and you scroll down in that folder, then navigate to another folder and then back to the first folder it remembers how far down you scrolled. Stuff like that really helps me work faster.

 

[Barney Fife]

Lemme ask you all a question, if I may.
What do you think the situation would be, if its the other way around and Mac dominated PC?

 

[Eejit]

That's a silly hypothetical question, with Macs so overpriced they can never dominate the PC.

 

[Barney Fife]

That's a silly hypothetical question, with Macs so overpriced they can never dominate the PC.

Jesus Christ Eejit. :|

 

[StardogChampion]

Since we're on the topic - why are Macs associated with graphic artists?

Because most of them are technophobe dumbasses if my college classes were anything to go by.

What's so more convenient, compared to the PC?

Nothing.

 

[xcellerate]

Since we're on the topic - why are Macs associated with graphic artists?

I feel like I've answered this before. It's because back when apple used the G processors, they were superior at sheer number crunching. So if you're trying to gaussian blur a 30mb picture in photoshop the mac would do it faster.

 

[CptStern]

sigh, it's because most of the adobe/aldus products were initially mac only.

 

[Viperidae]

sigh, it's because most of the adobe/aldus products were initially mac only.

This, a million times over.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

This shit needs a poll...
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152419

 

[Rico]

Weird, because nobody who didn't need it, has ever asked to have windows installed on their mac. In fact just this year I've already replaced 2 perfectly fine dells with iMacs because the employees ASKED me too. So what now? Do our experiences cancel each other out and make the argument useless?

A 13.1" dell laptop is going to cost nearly the same as a macbook once you install vista 64bit, bluetooth, and a webcam. I think I had actual prices a few pages back where it was like a $100 difference. The price difference comes from the companies ideas of what 'base model' means. Like how a base model audi might have leather seats, but a base model civic is cloth.



So wouldn't it make sense that if less people are concerned with infecting OSX, then you're safer being on OSX? Only one of the machines at work has been infected before, it was a dell, xp sp3, and it was running mcafee enterprise 8.5i.

Why exactly do you need 64 bit Vista on a work laptop? Macs come bloated with crap most office workers never use. It will always be a mystery to me why people blow so much cash on office computers that they only use to check their email/use MS word/ surf the web. Fact of the matter: A mac is an overpriced investment for a normal office environment.

And dells are just as guilty of this crap as well. But the truth is, these people at offices that "ask for a Mac" don;t usually do so because they have used Macs before and had a good experience, they do so for the same reason people get an Ipod over a much cheaper and more reliable/feature packed MP3 player... Name brand recognition.

It's "cool" to own a Mac, because for some reason people feel as if they are part of some elite minority. Nobody gives two craps if you just bought a top of the line dell or Lenovo, but a Mac... ah yes, show it off to your friends!

Seriously, how can you even argue that? You are paying more for the same product (you even said it yourself, whether you save 100 dollars or 1k, you still pay for the Apple logo) and are doing it gladly. I can load OSX onto a PC. Why do I need to buy Apple, exactly?

 

[Kadayi]

So wouldn't it make sense that if less people are concerned with infecting OSX, then you're safer being on OSX? Only one of the machines at work has been infected before, it was a dell, xp sp3, and it was running mcafee enterprise 8.5i.

Not really, it's the illusion of safety rather than there being actual safety. The more Apples market share increases the greater the odds that, that 'illusion' will be tested to the detriment of many users.

 

[Bakurei]

Btw why does the osx ask for a password on pretty much everything you do? On the pc-rooms in our university we have usually like two macs, no one really uses them so when you have to print something quick you just logon to them and try printing. Everytime I tried to open safari the osx wanted some password, which wasn't the one I had. After 30min of trying to print I gave up. Wouldn't even open open office, just tried to update and then asked for the password :/

 

[Escaep]

Btw why does the osx ask for a password on pretty much everything you do? On the pc-rooms in our university we have usually like two macs, no one really uses them so when you have to print something quick you just logon to them and try printing. Everytime I tried to open safari the osx wanted some password, which wasn't the one I had. After 30min of trying to print I gave up. Wouldn't even open open office, just tried to update and then asked for the password :/

That is a setting on the computer, not something that is a standard feature on OSX.

 

[Narcolepsy]

I hate it when people try to deal in absolutes in topics like this. Yeah, you're paying an Apple tax. But you're also paying for a bunch of intangibles (at least in a Mac laptop) - a far superior trackpad, the very slick OS X, beautiful design, etc. Is that worth paying for? It was for me, but maybe you could care less about OS X's design ethic or multitouch gestures.

 

[giant384]

Apple is like weed, it is expensive with a small market, and high school and college students purchase it for cool points with their friends.

 

[JNightshade]

Threads like this make me bash my head into the desk.

Do you know why mac products cost so much? Because they are luxury products. Walk into any apple store and you'll immediately notice how many employees work there. It's absurd- there are almost as many "geniuses" (insert groan here) as customers. Is this a cost-effective way of doing things? Not if you're selling $500 PC's. When you buy a mac, you're paying for customer service, ease of use, intuitive UI, slick aesthetics, and a host of other things. This business strategy is not shrewd on a large scale- however, it works very well when you only control a small, generally affluent percentage of the market.