Why do you like TF2 more than FF/TFC?

[xcellerate]

Obviously the player-base for TF2 is MUCH larger than it is for FF/TFC; I've figured TFC is small because the game is so dang old and people have just moved on, but what about FF? It is an updated version of TFC but it is still mostly the same; have people just grown tired of TFC style gameplay and wanted something new or is TF2 really just that much better?

What's your reason?

 

[DjBourgeoisie]

Tf2 is not only better from an artistic standpoint (the cartooney graphics fit the game better imo) but the gameplay is much smoother and polished. I hated tfc because it all felt much more spammy, while tf2 is spammy in some ways it does not feel overwhelming with the removal of nades. The demoman is still pretty spammy and a bit overpowered imo in tf2 but aside from that I think Valve did a tremendous job balancing all of the classes and what not.

 

[Absinthe]

1.) It plays more smoothly and is more refined.

2.) The visual style is more appropriate and engaging.

3.) There's less spam and the classes feel more defined and balanced, filling specific roles (no more medic flag carriers for instance).

4.) Stats are so damn cool.

 

[Lobster]

I have alot of reasons, but the main one i feel is that since i left TFC a long time ago, the genre has moved in many directions and the novelty of being online with friends and people from around the world playing an FPS together had died off, the games became all about competative seriousness, if you dont have the patience to get good at CS for instance, its a very hostile enviroment that is difficult to enjoy, the battlefield style games with huge maps and vehicles have become a different genre that takes away from the players and focuses more on the overall battle.

TF2 for me simply returns to the basic premise of the genre, fun with multiple people, I have friends that hate elitist FPS games that love TF2 because its a genuinely enjoyable piece of mayhem thats seperate from TF now, FF and TFC are a different thing altogether, that will appeal alot to the people who never lost there love for that paticular game.

 

[CyberPitz]

Less spam
More teamwork *sometimes*
Greater art style
Tongue in cheek humor

 

[Chris]

Character.

 

[Kadayi]

I have alot of reasons, but the main one i feel is that since i left TFC a long time ago, the genre has moved in many directions and the novelty of being online with friends and people from around the world playing an FPS together had died off, the games became all about competative seriousness, if you dont have the patience to get good at CS for instance, its a very hostile enviroment that is difficult to enjoy, the battlefield style games with huge maps and vehicles have become a different genre that takes away from the players and focuses more on the overall battle.

TF2 for me simply returns to the basic premise of the genre, fun with multiple people, I have friends that hate elitist FPS games that love TF2 because its a genuinely enjoyable piece of mayhem thats seperate from TF now, FF and TFC are a different thing altogether, that will appeal alot to the people who never lost there love for that paticular game.

QFT. I'm in full agreement. I remember coming late to the party with CS and spending countless hours getting owned relentlessly at it. I think I only stuck at it out of sheer tenacity rather than enjoyment. I wouldn't even want to contemplate getting into it as a newbie these days. Albeit a lot of people are already getting quite tactical with TF2, it's a much more accessible game and even people I know who aren't regular online players have been able to settle into it very quickly.

 

[Absinthe]

I have alot of reasons, but the main one i feel is that since i left TFC a long time ago, the genre has moved in many directions and the novelty of being online with friends and people from around the world playing an FPS together had died off, the games became all about competative seriousness, if you dont have the patience to get good at CS for instance, its a very hostile enviroment that is difficult to enjoy, the battlefield style games with huge maps and vehicles have become a different genre that takes away from the players and focuses more on the overall battle.

TF2 for me simply returns to the basic premise of the genre, fun with multiple people, I have friends that hate elitist FPS games that love TF2 because its a genuinely enjoyable piece of mayhem thats seperate from TF now, FF and TFC are a different thing altogether, that will appeal alot to the people who never lost there love for that paticular game.

Jesus.

QFT

 

[Para]

TF2 isn't trying to be something it isn't. That's why I enjoy playing it.

 

[Crispy]

I do enjoy TF2 but I also believe that in time it will become 'hardcore' like CS, DoD and so on. Even now I find myself cursing at how someone failed to spot a Spy sloping around the sentry nest and let him not only sap everything to shit but escape to return for an unwelcome encore. This is purely down to people being new to it, but after 90% have got to grips with these 'cliches', the obvious plays, TF2 won't seem as 'accessible' as it's made out to be because people will have taken their general abilities to a higher level.

In TF2 there is lots of scope for 'twitch' gameplay. Look at how a Demo snapshots a Scout midair, or those goddamn Snipers that never go down, the Spys who can go toe-to-toe with a Soldier, and the Engies that only use their Sentry as a backup. And then there's the Scout.

New players are already astounded at how a Scout can own a (noob) Heavy, how an Engy can own a (noob) Spy, how their (noob) Sentry can not be there when they return seconds after having left to get more metal. After a while everyone will have learnt how to do things better, it's the nature of the multiplayer beast.

 

[Nitre]

Even though a lot of people will move on i think it will be a lot more difficult for the game to become like CS, which is a very, very good thing. I'm still relatively new to FPS, and when i started off with CS and DoD i got relentlessly owned over and over and over again. After i stopped playing those because i found another much worse and more annoying game to play and waste my money on. Then i played BF2 and exactly the same thing happened. It took me at least 50 hours playing each kit to actually get a positive KD ratio each round.

The brilliant thing about TF2 is that it's quite hard not to be at least reasonable at it. People can be really good and yet you, as an inexperienced player can occasionally best them, whereas on games such as CS it is nigh on impossible to do so. I think it's the fact that the classes are much more balanced and there is a sort of counter for each class. The game is much more accessible and generally you don't need to spend ages learning how the classes weapons work to be able to enjoy yourself while playing.

 

[alehm]

Variation
I like TF2 because I can look at what is happening in the game and change the class I am playing because I know it will actually do the team some good. Whereas in CS you can only change the gun you are shooting.

I also like how the control maps play out in different areas. In some ways its like playing multiple maps when you are only playing one.


Depth
I like the fact that different combination of classes require a counter offense to be effective. Though you may be playing the same map over and over you are not playing the same tactics usually.

Cooperation
I like the fact I see the medic healing teammates instead of conc jumping to be a solo hero.

I like it when I see pyros (or whoever) helping an engineer protect the sentry, dispencer, and teleport.

I like it that mic use in game is about what is going on in the battle and not about how drunk someone is, or other personal non-game related issues.

Misc

The pyro is actually worth more than a bucket of spit in TF2
Dominations and killing a Nemesis FTW
Stats
Character identities and personalities
Graphics
killing spies
Meeting up regularly with friends online to play games (something I rarely did for years)

 

[nurizeko]

The art style and humour.

The engine.


The variety of classes. I love that in just one evening I've went from getting owned to jumping into peoples faces as a pyro with my SHOTGUN, be they soldier, demo or whatever, and coming out of it with the kill.

All these other FPS games you've mentioned, I get owned hard, or I have to work my butt off to get my kills.

But with TF2 I can just jump in and go positive so easily its awesome. The only other game I was good at was Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. Something about WolfET and TF2 just fit my abilities perfectly.

So the learning curve isn't severe.

The maps are just the right sizes.

Teamwork, as has been said, not to mention the assisted kills thing is a great addition, medics are too weak to be real rambos (aside from the odd good firefight with a careless/noob enemy) but the fact you get attributed in a kill line for healing an ally makes it worth it.

Too many other games basically reward a good medic with a terribly bad ratio, and gives them the means to be more like a glorified self healing scout then an actual support class.

Plenty of ways to replenish health and ammo, which is a god send. I don't feel I have to be sparse with usage of my ammo or too afraid to be aggressive because it would be too hard to get my health back up. WolfET managed this with field ops and medics with ammo and health packs. TF2 achieves this with engi dispensers, ammo and medical cases in spawns, and medics.

Overall it just seems to work, like most things on the Orange box. :cheese:

Good class and team balance, good balanced maps, just good old rampaging balanced fun.

Other FPS games seem to think its okay to have team imbalances, because somehow its better to have one team with crap guns/weps and one team with better guns/we[s and claim its ultimately awesome. Its not, its just boring and frustrating.

CS:S also only gives you one life per round. Not the most fun TBH. I like living, killing, dying and getting right back in there. Reward me for playing well, don't punish me for dying, because someone played a bit better.


So eyah, overall TF2 has grown on me within a short period, very good solid game and I am glad to have it in my collection. :bounce:

 

[kupocake]

There's a whole cycle here in action. Team Fortress Classic dwindled when 'superior', more popular Half-Life mods like Counter Strike became popular. The benefit of this is, whereas the worst thing that Valve could have done whilst making Counter Strike Source was to change anything that several million people thought was fine anyway, Team Fortress could get a total overhaul and become a far more valid alternative, without irritating anything like a significant fraction of players, and appeasing many who went off in search of pastures new.

So Valve did just that, and overhauled just about anything that had even a hint of a problem in. And then they sealed the deal with a brilliant new direction for the art (TFC in both its versions was the height of naffness on that front).

 

[TwwIX]

I honestly love both games.
TFC has provided me with a lot of great memories and that warm fuzzy feel of nostalgia.
TF2 on the other hand has rekindled my interested in the half life community and online shooters in general.It's just a great game that's purely focused on fun and teamwork but doesn't take itself too serious though.It's a riot!Whether you win in it or lose.
The thing i love most about is the art style and the life it brought into the games classes.They used to be plain classes without any real substance.
Now they're actual characters,each with their own special personality and functionality.

 

[Jintor]

The simple version: TF2 is fun.

The complex version: I got it with Orange Box, there's an epic community both online in Australian servers and online on the HL2.net servers if I feel like playing with friends, voice-chat to communicate effectively is great, I'm playing from the total start of the game's community, I can actually afford it, art style, character, and the sheer, relentless amounts of fun.

 

[Azner]

Character.

That you have too much of

 

[xcellerate]

I downloaded TF2 a few days ago and I just can't seem to get into it. It's so slow and uninteresting. I really, really liked all the chaos of TFC, there was SO much going on ALL the time, it was awesome.

I remember times where I'd be running out of the base with the flag and I'd hear my mouse squeaking, because I was so tense I was squeezing it. I just don't get that feeling with TF2.

All the weapons feel weak and inaccurate, and everything just seems to take longer now. Respawning, running, HWguy charge up time, engineer build/upgrade, gameplay in general.

Maybe I just have a.d.d. or something, but the last time I was playing tf2 i was doing it with the tv on because the game was just so...blah, and I feel like I'm missing something, because everybody else seems to love it.

 

[Jintor]

I downloaded TF2 a few days ago and I just can't seem to get into it. It's so slow and uninteresting. I really, really liked all the chaos of TFC, there was SO much going on ALL the time, it was awesome.

I remember times where I'd be running out of the base with the flag and I'd hear my mouse squeaking, because I was so tense I was squeezing it. I just don't get that feeling with TF2.

All the weapons feel weak and inaccurate, and everything just seems to take longer now. Respawning, running, HWguy charge up time, engineer build/upgrade, gameplay in general.

Maybe I just have a.d.d. or something, but the last time I was playing tf2 i was doing it with the tv on because the game was just so...blah, and I feel like I'm missing something, because everybody else seems to love it.

You must be playing a different game to me. The only thing that seems long is the respawn times.

 

[nurizeko]

I play on a server without a respawn timer.

Oh, and I'de hardly call it slow. Maybe if your playing with a bunch of geriatrics who are too scared to commit to a fight.


TF2 shines, like most games of this fashion, when both teams play confidently with the firefights aggressively.

 

[Chris]

That you have too much of

I will not dignify that with a responce.


Oh.

 

[xcellerate]

I play on a server without a respawn timer.

Which server has no respawn timer? Maybe I'll try playing on that one.

 

[nurizeko]

Something called wireplay.co.uk something, its 2forts 24/7 and British so dunno if thats any good for you.

Just check server names, they should say if they don't have a spawn timer.

 

[Grue]

I downloaded TF2 a few days ago and I just can't seem to get into it. It's so slow and uninteresting. I really, really liked all the chaos of TFC, there was SO much going on ALL the time, it was awesome.

I remember times where I'd be running out of the base with the flag and I'd hear my mouse squeaking, because I was so tense I was squeezing it. I just don't get that feeling with TF2.

All the weapons feel weak and inaccurate, and everything just seems to take longer now. Respawning, running, HWguy charge up time, engineer build/upgrade, gameplay in general.

Maybe I just have a.d.d. or something, but the last time I was playing tf2 i was doing it with the tv on because the game was just so...blah, and I feel like I'm missing something, because everybody else seems to love it.

I agree with you, TF2 just seems to be lacking something.

I don't find the weapons weak, hitting someone with a demoman grenade and watching them explode is satisfying, but I know what you mean about inaccurate. If you're getting hammered by a far away soldier when defending a control point then you open up the class selection to try and find an appropriate weapon to counter. But the heavy, pyro, demoman, medic and scout are too short range, the sniper and engineer can't dodge well enough, the soldier's weapon travels too slowly, and the spy won't get close enough. In other games I'd grab a rifle (No. 4 enfield) or find a heavy machine gun nest with a line of sight to him, but in TF2 I just get frustrated.

And the characters, they just don't seem to work. For example I can remember lines from games that I played years ago that still make me smile ("Magic is all very well, but now Minsc leads. SWORDS FOR EVERYONE!", "Oooh, cool bastard sword. Why bastard you think? No parents?", "You can collect a zoo if you want to Cal, but I'm not cleaning out the D*** cargo area.") but despite having twenty hours or so of playtime in TF2 in the last couple of weeks I can only remember one line.

I think a lot of the problem with TF2 is that it's rather tame. The pyromaniac is a good example. The word itself suggestions someone with an evil glint in their eye, someone who wants to set fire to everything, someone who happily sloshes petrol around and leaves large piles of carbon in his wake. In TF2 he's a guy with a short range beam weapon who can only set fire to the enemy. Just the enemy, not their teleports, dispensors, or doors, not their stickybombs, pipebombs or ammocrates, just the enemy. There are some nice tall, rickity, and above all wooden structures on gravelpit and you can't even char them, let alone set them blazing merrily.

All the characters are like that, the Crazy Ivan demoman can't blow himself up, the superfast scout can't run through wooden doors leaving a scout-shaped outline, the medic doesn't get access to any nazi superscience, the spy can't set up cunning traps like barely balanced caldrons of boiling oil, the engineer doesn't have access to any heavy construction machinery (crushed by a JCB bucket!) and the sniper's headshots don't cause people to keel over backwards with a neat hole in their forhead.

There are technical problems too. Teamwork is a big one. The game expects teamwork but it does a lot less than it could to actually encourge a team (on a public server) to work together. For example there's no way of telling where your allies are. Have they all gone forward to attack so you should stay and defend? Are they all hanging back so you should go and attack? Are you team making a real effort to take a point or are they just attacking the enemy rather than going for an objective? If you are ready for an attack then what's the spawn situation like? Can you expect another five people to appear at the front line momentarily or is there still ten seconds to go on the spawn counter? If the enemy has a large force at a control point should you move defenses to the next one or is there an equally large friendly force about to attack them?

The game is also structured so that a team will often have a decisive advantage. Listening to the developer comments this seems to have been done for the peculiar reason of 'avoiding a stalemate outcome' which they apparently consider a bad thing. But by doing this they have made a fair number of games a steamroller victory or rock-solid defense, which are boring. It also means that when you reach points on certain maps (last Hydro stage, last CPs on well and granary) you know you're pretty much guarenteed to loose/win which breaks the tension and takes the point out of playing until the next map.

The Orange box was my first experience of half life 2 so I've been playing many of the multiplayer source mods alongside and I have to say they also did a lot of things right with TF2.

It's impressively smooth and bug-free. I haven't seen anyone fall through the landscape or any camera views that poke out through the map. In fact the only real bugs I've noticed are an exploit on granary (the inside ramp allows one-way shooting) and the unreliable stickymines (they occasionally refuse to go off, even when they're still visible).

Apart from the control point problem the maps are well designed, I don't think I ever got lost (maybe once on gravelpit) and the control point arrows and signs are a great idea. A bit more variety would have been nice, there's rather a lot of brown, and they feel a bit claustrophobic at times but they're a pretty good bunch.

I think one of the biggest things TF2 has done for me is realise just how good Battlefield 2 is. I may curse it and get very frustrated at it for all it's bugs but after a good round I'm tense, excited and exhausted in a way that TF2 just doesn't do, although it's nice for a bit of variety.

EDIT: Oh yes, there's a simple reason why TF2 has many more players than FF. It's known about by a much larger number of people. Chances are that if you've bought any PC game recently you'd have noticed The Orange Box. If you bought the orange box for Episode Two then you're likely to try out TF2 as you've already paid for it. In contrast 90% of the people who have played Half Life 2 probably don't even know about the mods for it.

 

[FriedchikenCamo]

I don't neccesarily agree, but I appreciate that someone took to time to detail their reasoning.

Certainly the classes are limited in the loadouts that they get. The fact that the Pyro doesn't have it's incidiary rockts prevents it from engaging in long range battles with soldiers, but it does specialize the classes' purpose, which involves ambush tactics or team sanitation. The main solution for the chokepoint you described is simple to push the other team off that area and then setup of forward outpost with more specialized classes afterward. You can't expect to have a line of snipers/engineers ready and expect to win everytime.

As for people who find the game slow paced, I find that even the soldier's gameplay is pretty fast paced. I just spend more time quickly anticipating the enemy's next movement position than tapping the fire key. It's where you allocate your concentration, as you can't just wag your mouse around tapping the mouse button to expect results.

Also, flamethrowers in games tend to be pretty limited, and anything that exemplifies the amount of barnhouse destruction rare, if not non-existent. As much as I would love to torch a barn, the closest any game i've seen has gotten to that would be the flamethrower class in Eternal Silence 2, were you could lay down flammable goop and set it of fire for long periods of time. However, that feature often lead to stalemates, with teams spamming grenades across the fiery expanse. I think the TF2 Pyro does a good enough job of assuming a tactical role, while conveying enough of the chaos that results in setting a group on fire as a distraction.

All the characters are like that, the Crazy Ivan demoman can't blow himself up, the superfast scout can't run through wooden doors leaving a scout-shaped outline, the medic doesn't get access to any nazi superscience, the spy can't set up cunning traps like barely balanced caldrons of boiling oil, the engineer doesn't have access to any heavy construction machinery (crushed by a JCB bucket!)

Maybe I'm just jaded over the years, but none of those suggests are as simple to implement to warrant the little payoff that they give. The demoman's grenades can't hurt himself since the lack of friendly fire would make this damage seem unnecessary. I don't get why you would want to spend time developing doors that scouts run through when simply you could have an open corridoor. The spy was designed for close encounter tactics, and putting traps everywhere just frustrates normal players more than already happens. And what Nazi superscience? Jet Fighters and nightvision gear? Or do you mean dipping people in vats of HF solution?

 

[Lobster]

It is impossible for a single game to please every player in the genre, that is why we have so many different games existing in it, TF2 does please alot of them, but also fills a gap in the market, that being a multiplayer FPS for people who dont usualy play them or for people getting into it, that doesnt mean its a newbie game, there are plenty of ways to get good at a paticular class, like learning to fly as a demoman, its one thing to do it, its another to do it on the fly and watch people explode in a plume of jam behind you.

All im saying is, Gone are the days when ID can say "Here is the next Quake" and then be the perfect online-shooter for the next 2-3 years, now its about niche groups, and the games that fill and compete in those microscopic sub-genres, TF2 for me updates and refills the paticular gameplay type i enjoy and helps bring in new people at the same time.

There will always be your Battlefield games, your realistic infantry sims, your deathmatches, and your twitchy aim games like cs, stick with what you enjoy, thats the whole point afterall.

 

[FriedchikenCamo]

Lobster: Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

TF2 is really great when you want to start up a game with a few friends, invade a public server, and just have fun. I don't really know how the clan scene will turn out, but TF2 is easy to get into, without necessarily being "shallow".

One thing I think would be kinda detrimental to the tournament scene would be the criticals though. It's rewarding to have those occasional rockets where even splash damage will perform a one hit kill, but I bet that will be too unpredictable for matches where the smallest score difference can mean utter defeat in a ladder game.

But again, if you wanted to have a class based, high skill game, I think Quake Wars would be a better fit. Just because not everyone has days of free time per week to have clan practice doesn't mean companies shouldn't make games that cater to that crowd.

Saying that TF2 is a worthless game because it caters to people with moderate skills levels as just as rubbish as I saying that Battlefield 2 is rubbish because it takes less skill to play that than to setup a company sized group of players in Operation Flashpoint with the Wargames League addon to play an hours long game of simulating war (Shack Tactical group, I'm looking at you). Some people aren't into getting chest wounds that virtually suck.

 

[Lobster]

I used to be a big OFP player, some of the custom coop maps in that game were hugely underated and the mission editor was inspired.

 

[FriedchikenCamo]

I enjoy a long game of OFP as well, only with AI taking the place of 20 other guys on Teamspeak who boil over if you don't use military code words (Exaggerating, hehe).