Why HL2 uses Havok?

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chuawenching

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Hi there,

I think i never can even buy Havok 2 as a dynamic game physics engine. It is so expensive.

And i wonder is havok 2 better than engines like Tokaman and ODE?

Why? I see the features are so similar?

And i believe Half Life 2 choose Havok 2 for some hell good reasons.. and same to Max Payn 2...

Can share with me something?

Let don't discuss about price.. we discuss more on the game itself... how does havok 2 actually helps!

Thanks.
 
Wow. I know English isn't your first language... But that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sorry. Don't let me discourage you, though. I'd be hopeless speaking Chinese. :)
 
English can't be your first language if you didn't understand that :/
 
hmmm am i wrong in thinking that doom 3 in goin to use the havok engine as well? :x
 
well I think Havok must be among the leading physics engines (if not the leading physics engine) that sport a lot of customization and ease of use options.
although I can only speculate.. but considering the e3 techdemo movies, Valve must have chosen it for good reason...
very impressive.

Im afraid Im not familiar with Tokaman and ODE.
remember though Valve havent just adopted havok into their engine, they have customized and edited the hell out of it.
I really cant wait to see some of the things we are going to be able to do upon release...
and IM dying to scope out multiplayer.

btw welcome to the boards Chua

---

(whoopsy doodle, I posted, published, saw the reply over me, hit edit, added my response, posted.. and then saw the response below me, so in all fairness Im remving my answer so it doesnt look odd) much love ;D
 
Originally posted by eddie500
hmmm am i wrong in thinking that doom 3 in goin to use the havok engine as well? :x
Click to expand...

No, they're using their own physics engine.
 
Originally posted by chuawenching
Hi there,

I think i never can even buy Havok 2 as a dynamic game physics engine. It is so expensive.

And i wonder is havok 2 better than engines like Tokaman and ODE?

Why? I see the features are so similar?

And i believe Half Life 2 choose Havok 2 for some hell good reasons.. and same to Max Payn 2...

Can share with me something?

Let don't discuss about price.. we discuss more on the game itself... how does havok 2 actually helps!

Thanks.
Click to expand...

For some damn reason, I think I know you.

Anyway, maybe you would like to rephrase your questions?
 
well ID are havin a field day with Source (allegedly) so expect to be killin hells minions with gravity
 
Originally posted by 6iXx
English can't be your first language if you didn't understand that :/
Click to expand...

All I could decipher was - What is the advantages of the Havok engine, and why did Valve choose to use it despite it's cost?

Well, the answer would be... Its looks good, and its efficient. I don't think Valve stands to lose much cash by licensing the Havok engine... they'll only benefit.
 
Originally posted by Headwires
well ID are havin a field day with Source (allegedly) so expect to be killin hells minions with gravity
Click to expand...

No, because if they use the Havok aspect of Half-Life 2, they fall under legal issues with the people that made the Havok 2 engine, as they stole their material as well as Valve's. But I'm sure they're not that stupid to.
 
half life 2 is not the only game that uses havok...not the first either
 
i was jokin lol :p yer i think it would be pretty obvious if ID were to use code from source
 
i have checked ODE, it is pretty good, but its not meant for games.(probably too accurate or something)
i believe it will not be efficient. physics in HL2 probably uses less than 10% of CPU power..i doubt ODE can do that at 60fps
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
Wow. I know English isn't your first language... But that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sorry. Don't let me discourage you, though. I'd be hopeless speaking Chinese. :)
Click to expand...

are you retarded ?

I mean their obvioulsy not english but you can still easily piece it together ???
 
Originally posted by WiredShock
are you retarded ?

I mean their obvioulsy not english but you can still easily piece it together ???
Click to expand...

Stop now. Just keep on the topic at hand.
 
They've obvioulsy gone for a mix of the Havok engine plus their own engine(s). Who knows how many features they use from the Havok engine?

But i guess they came to the conclusion that for certain aspects, the Havok engine is as good as they could do. But they have probably written their own AI engine, graphics engine, sound engine, etc..

The Havok will be used for charcter movabiliity, and integration of models into the game.
 
Oops.. sorry is tokamak, go to http://www.tokamakphysics.com

Their demo is quite convincing.. see the physics don't see the graphics...

well, i am doing a .net wrapper for it.. but it will take more time..

My english is bad.. well maybe i am an Asian that is why?

Sorry if i don't phrase my word properly..

Well, i know no one from here.. but in other forums, i used the same name chua wen ching... the signature is always the same.

ODE is great.. i like it.. someone in the tv3d engine community made a delphi wrapper for it.. and the demo are perfect!

I still don't see any benefit of havok except customization? You mean they have physics editors?

Someone can even create physic editor with ODE.. no difference!

Thanks for the welcome to this forum. It is fun and receive the fastest reply i seen mywhole entire life in forums.

Any tips?

Thanks.
 
I think it really comes down to personal preference, Im sure Valve shopped around for a physics engine before they set themselves on Havok..
so Im sure as a developer the Havok engine (at least to them) had the most relevent features that they needed to give their game feeling.
perhaps its not the best in terms of raw power or whatever, but it must have the qualities valve needed for HL2. :)
same thing for XSI really.
HL2 isnt a marketing tool
they chose the things that they needed to deliver an immersive gaming experience, I doubt having marketing buddies was their motivation.
 
Let don't discuss about price.. we discuss more on the game itself... how does havok 2 actually helps!
Click to expand...
Valve licensed the Havok engine for the same reason game developers license graphics engines. By starting with existing technology, it gives them a head start and allows them to concentrate on other aspects of developement.

I'm certain Valve did a cost analysis and determined if they could make their own in-house physics engine for less than it would cost to license Havok, with the answer apparently being "No."
 
Hmm. since half life 2 already did a in house game engine why not their own inhouse physics engine.. many games did that...

not necessary use any existing physics engine.. the reason save cost!

You see as a game developer (more to hobbyist), i would not think that my game will even sell if i use havok...

I believe same to half life 2.. but i think bcs half life is far too famous in the FPS games industry!

:)
 
I think you need to take a look at how extensively they have edited and taken full advantage of Havok to get a real feel as to why they chose it , Chua.
and I seriously doubt that any game wouldnt sell well based on the fact that they decided to use Havok, or any other physics engine.
if you have a good game on your hands
your going to sell well. simple logic ;) I doubt Hl2 even needed physics at all to sell well, we would all still be here.
(not because its a famous FPS.. because it is a QUALITY fps) ;)
Doom3 is famous has its own physics engine, sports all nifty doodads engine/rendering wise etc etc, and its not going to top HL2..
in fact Doom3 doesnt even interest me.
 
Like I said, it was probably a cost vs. benefits analysis, and Valve apparently felt the benefits of licensing Havok technology outweighed the cost.
 
Hmm.. ok.. i understands.

Just i hate havok2, at least give me a trial to test right! No trial at all? People like me, maybe wait until i had a company (a big big one) to license it.. haha!

Anyway thanks for the comments! Yeah... in hl2, they utilize a lot of ragdolls, they should do more violent like what they did in soldier of fortune series...

you shoot the leg and the whole leg fly off from the orginal 3d mesh!

haha!
 
well that has nothing to do with ragdolls, physics or anything of the sort.
any game can slap together a modeling system like sof2's... but personally that level of gore only detracts from an otherwise realistic game. I much preffer HIgh polly models that arent segmented...
I believe this is where valve says:
"its a design decision not a technical limitation" and IM sure people are already planning to have some sort of damage systtem ala sof2
 
What do you mean a trial? Are you a developer interested in licensing the Havok engine? You can see some demos and other information at their website:

www.havok.com

At any rate, Valve is using the physics for far more than just ragdoll effects. They've incorporated the physics into the engine to a degree that I've never seen before, where literally any object in the game can be assigned physical properties and it will react the way you'd expect it to.
 
As I read it from the Tech Demo Movie, Valve took the havok 2 engine and then introduced the notion of material qualities into it, so objects react and fall according to their material density in order to enhance the sense of realism and immersion.
 
Originally posted by Headwires
i was jokin lol :p yer i think it would be pretty obvious if ID were to use code from source
Click to expand...

ID would have no reason to use any code from the source engine, not to mention its illegal. Theyre engine is great, its just Source is better in certain areas, and DoomIII is better in certain areas.
 
what makes HL2 different is that fact that every object has properties like weight density etc. its not like in old games, where objects are simply blocks with skins(textures) on top of them. what i like about HL2 is that there are tables etc with things on which can be knocked over and moved around. this level of interactivity is what makes it so much more realistic
 
Doom 3 uses much more displacement mapping, especially on the mobs. If you've seen the trailer it is particularly noticable when you see the skin of the rhino type creature that comes through the pipes. Also Doom 3 uses dynamic lighting for everything (the metallic nature of the scenery is mainly there to show it off).

Half life 2 not only introduces the material physics, it also brings a greater sense of realism to the npcs through the development of advanced facial expressions and features.

I think the difference between the engines is that Doom 3 aims to look more real, where as Source aims to feel more real. Naturally what is really exciting is to witness the next generation of game engines that encompass both aspects.
 
the half life 2 graphics engine is 'source'
the half life 2 physics engine is havok

i assume the financial figures would be their own private figures.
 
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