Why is that...

[GhostBoi]

Solaris is naive to think religion is the only reason people kill each other. It's stupid to think that. If religion was abolished and ALL the world did not practice any form of religion, you'd have people still killing each other. It's human nature.

If Solaris really said that religion really caused all murderings, then yes that is silly. But to say that it causes none is equally as silly. It's dogmatic, unreasonable thinking that causes almost 100 percent of murders in the world, religion is but one form of this.

 

[Raziaar]

If Solaris really said that religion really caused all murderings, then yes that is silly. But to say that it causes none is equally as silly. It's dogmatic, unreasonable thinking that causes almost 100 percent of murders in the world, religion is but one form of this.

It's hard to tell what exactly he said...

He said "People kill for purely religious reasons" according to the quote.

That could mean people kill for religious reasons... which yes they do, just like people kill for purely selfish reasons. Or he could mean that people kill for only religious reasons, pure and simple.

it's hard to tell sometimes what Solaris means when it comes to the subject matter.

 

[Cole]

Judaism =/= Christianity. Read any of Jesus' teachings and you'll see a completely different message.

Jesus taught that you have to follow the old testament.

Anyway, if religion is an excuse to cause wars then you wanna know something? Thats no bad.
If you have someone of high authority is preaching to you that your god wants you to go kill a nation because they have different beliefs your going to do it. While that high authority figure may be doing it to increase power, religion only made it easier for him to make the war by justifying it in the head for his people.

What if Bush just said, "I had a dream, and in that dream god talked to me! He told me we have to go to war with Iraq". Now lets imagine every American follows christianity and believes that Bush is basically the pope. Do you think were going to have this constant bickering that the Iraq war is bad? No 100% of all Americans will agree to go to war because of what they believe(or you might be killed for not following christianity and the "pope"). You will have more kids willingly signing up for the army. All in all religion would have contributed to the war and justified it beyond all doubts. So religion does have a major play in war even if it is indirectly.

 

[MiccyNarc]

What if Bush just said, "I had a dream, and in that dream god talked to me! He told me we have to go to war with Iraq". Now lets imagine every American follows christianity and believes that Bush is basically the pope. Do you think were going to have this constant bickering that the Iraq war is bad? No 100% of all Americans will agree to go to war because of what they believe(or you might be killed for not following christianity and the "pope"). You will have more kids willingly signing up for the army. All in all religion would have contributed to the war and justified it beyond all doubts. So religion does have a major play in war even if it is indirectly.

But that didn't happen so it's basically irrelevant to this discussion.

Jesus taught that you have to follow the old testament.

Right, even though He broke a myriad of the Old Testament laws (especially laws about the sabbath)
To say that we need to follow the Old Testament would completely nullify His death on the cross.
"Love your enemy" = Jesus' message.

 

[highlander]

star trek religion. Boy oh boy, where do i sign up?

 

[Cole]

ut that didn't happen so it's basically irrelevant to this discussion.

Wow you really failed to realize what I was saying.

I was giving you an example on how religion can be used to cause wars. Stuff similar to the example above has been used in history. If your to blind to recognize this or understand it then don't even bother responding to this, because your either to ignorant or to stupid.

Right, even though He broke a myriad of the Old Testament laws (especially laws about the sabbath)
To say that we need to follow the Old Testament would completely nullify His death on the cross.
"Love your enemy" = Jesus' message.

I didn't think Jesus said love your enemy, I thought that was some other person. Could you supply a quote of Jesus saying this? Either way, Jesus said you gotta follow the old testament. If you don't follow the laws Jesus told you to as good as those who teach it, you will not enter the gates of heaven.

 

[pomegranate]

Anyway, if religion is an excuse to cause wars then you wanna know something? Thats no bad.
If you have someone of high authority is preaching to you that your god wants you to go kill a nation because they have different beliefs your going to do it. While that high authority figure may be doing it to increase power, religion only made it easier for him to make the war by justifying it in the head for his people.

What if Bush just said, "I had a dream, and in that dream god talked to me! He told me we have to go to war with Iraq". Now lets imagine every American follows christianity and believes that Bush is basically the pope. Do you think were going to have this constant bickering that the Iraq war is bad? No 100% of all Americans will agree to go to war because of what they believe(or you might be killed for not following christianity and the "pope"). You will have more kids willingly signing up for the army. All in all religion would have contributed to the war and justified it beyond all doubts.

Um, am I missing something? That definitely sounds like a bad thing.

 

[Solaris]

Judaism =/= Christianity. Read any of Jesus' teachings and you'll see a completely different message.

Wrong.

Jesus himself is quoted in the bible as saying "The old law has not changed, let not one letter from the law be changed for all eternity".

They hate us because we support the Israeli state, which is oppressing Palestinians. They hate us enough to sacrifice themselves to hurt us.

I used to think that, but then I read an interview about a Palestinian suicide bomber, just a teenager who tried to blow up a Isreali bus or whatever. He was doing it solely because he thought he would go to heaven, I can see why living in Palestine would make you want to blow up soldiers, but civilians? If we look throughout the world, the IRA never targeted innocent civillians Northern Ireland wasn't as bad as Palestine though. If we look at Tibet, if circumstance produced such monsters, where are the Tibet Buddhist suicide bombers?

Solaris is naive to think religion is the only reason people kill each other. It's stupid to think that. If religion was abolished and ALL the world did not practice any form of religion, you'd have people still killing each other. It's human nature.

Razziar, why do you lie? I have never said it's the only reason, yet you claim I have and make me look stupid. Stop making shit up and address the point you lier.
When I say "People kill for purely religious reasons". That is a true statement. I never said all people, just some.

 

[pomegranate]

the IRA never targeted innocent civillians

Please, quickly clarify who you mean by 'IRA', before you irretrievably lose all credibility.

 

[Solaris]

Please, quickly clarify who you mean by 'IRA', before you irretrievably lose all credibility.

Official IRA, PIRA.

 

[Operational]

..in Star Trek they never had religion?

Are they trying to say that man evolved and no longer had a need for it?

Most Science-Fiction writers are atheist/anti-religion but it is hard for a show to come out and say "humanity moved on from religion". In fact I remember one episode of the original series where I'm sure it was the writters intention to say just that but there were tacked on lines to appease Christians. It was strange hearing Kirk say, "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate."

The original series tried mostly to avoid the issue all together (along with many others) by not visiting Earth at all. The later series, even while visiting Earth still just ignored the issue (along with many others). Most religoins mentioned in Star Trek are fictional ones.

It's just another reason why Babylon 5 >> Star Trek .

 

[pomegranate]

Official IRA, PIRA.

So your point is that some factions of the IRA didn't target civilians, but when other factions certainly did so how does mentioning the IRA help your argument?

 

[Solaris]

So your point is that some factions of the IRA didn't target civilians, but when other factions certainly did so how does mentioning the IRA help your argument?

See, although they, unforgivably may I add, killed civilians. The targets were always military based, with warnings given to try and make sure no civilians were inured. With the RIRA the grounds bit shakier, they don't seem to care really who they kill. But even then, they are not doing it for religious reasons.

When we look at Palestinian suicide bombers, it is not grief or hardship that leads them to blow up teenagers on a bus, it is ultimately religious. They think killing non-believers will guarantee them a place in heaven. For these people, killing civilians is their primary aim because of their religious motivation.

 

[Azner]

Well, not only Civillians, every other non-believer.

 

[Raziaar]

Razziar, why do you lie? I have never said it's the only reason, yet you claim I have and make me look stupid. Stop making shit up and address the point you lier.
When I say "People kill for purely religious reasons". That is a true statement. I never said all people, just some.

Maybe you didn't read this, genius.

It's hard to tell what exactly he said...

He said "People kill for purely religious reasons" according to the quote.

That could mean people kill for religious reasons... which yes they do, just like people kill for purely selfish reasons. Or he could mean that people kill for only religious reasons, pure and simple.

it's hard to tell sometimes what Solaris means when it comes to the subject matter.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Wow you really failed to realize what I was saying.

I was giving you an example on how religion can be used to cause wars. Stuff similar to the example above has been used in history. If your to blind to recognize this or understand it then don't even bother responding to this, because your either to ignorant or to stupid.

Yes, I understand how it can be. However, your example was moronic and meaningless (as long as we're tossing out ad hominems)

I didn't think Jesus said love your enemy, I thought that was some other person.

Actually, no, it was Jesus. That was the entire theme of His ministry.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke 6&version=31
Luke 6: 27-28

If you don't follow the laws Jesus told you to as good as those who teach it, you will not enter the gates of heaven.

Bible verses please

Wrong.

Jesus himself is quoted in the bible as saying "The old law has not changed, let not one letter from the law be changed for all eternity".

Doesn't mean we have to follow it, now does it. Jesus broke many of the Old Laws, as did the people he commonly spent time with (tax collectors and prostitutes, etc.)

 

[Solaris]

Well the old laws specifically say "if a man.... you shall..." If you don't follow it I presume you don't get to go ti heaven.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Well the old laws specifically say "if a man.... you shall..." If you don't follow it I presume you don't get to go ti heaven.

Followed by "sacrifice this and your sins will be forgiven"

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, removing the guilt of those who accept the sacrifice.

 

[Solaris]

Followed by "sacrifice this and your sins will be forgiven"

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, removing the guilt of those who accept the sacrifice.

It's important to note that it was st.Paul who claimed this, NOT Jesus.

 

[MiccyNarc]

It's important to note that it was st.Paul who claimed this, NOT Jesus.

God, on Paul (aka Saul)

15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."