Why is the middle-east so mad at the world?

[AçкяØñ]

No seriously... why? I just can't comprehend why they would put up with the way they live. Obviously they are sitting on a lot of good oil which the world needs.

 

[French Ninja]

Western/Modern Life conflicts with traditional Islam.

With ideas like women's rights growing all over the world, clerics feel backed up in a corner and feel necessary to keep young Muslim men in a war against the "infidel".

 

[AçкяØñ]

Yeah, but have you seen hose old 1970's or 60's video's from the hostage situation in Iran? Woman lead those protests... It's like, they don't want a beter life for themselves, like they are content with having small or no roles in their government, something that hasn't been in Europe and U.S. since the 1600's

 

[Raeven0]

Since when is the entire Middle East pissed off at the entire rest of the world?

Have you been listening to Republican propaganda again?

 

[Flyingdebris]

its more like chunks of the middle east hate the west.

They see outside influence as corrupt and resent it alot. Thats one of the reasons they are pissed.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

This wikipedia article isn't very well-written, but it does provide a fairly comprehensive answer to the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_as_a_political_movement

Plus the crusades and all the stuff that happened earlier, along with all the stuff that's happening now (Gitmo, CIA Black Sites, War in Iraq).

The point is not that "they don't want a better life."
That's stupid.

Their idea of a better life is simply not the same as yours, and all attempts to give them "a better life" through imposed westernism have failed rather spectacularily, at their expense.

 

[Ravioli]

they are jelous of the freedom we have...and i think its because of the heat, it makes them angry...i know it makes me angry.

 

[gh0st]

they must have gotten some sand in their sandals..

 

[theotherguy]

because we:
Repeatedly conquer them
Place new nations on top of them
Exploit their natural resources
Have a different religion
Interfere in their internal affairs

 

[Tr0n]

It's the heat.

 

[PvtRyan]

Because they touch themselves at night.

 

[Yuri]

There is a lot of generalizing going on here.

I wonder what percentage of Middle Easterners actually do despise the US and western culture and all that. It does seem pretty high.

What I find completely ridiculous is when the Crusades are mentioned as a reasonable motive for hatred. The Crusades happened HUNDREDS of years ago by people that have NOTHING to do with ANYTHING any more.

 

[15357]

Because they want to kill us all, duh.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Its not "just" the "culture" thing. Former (and some present) Western foreign policy hasnt exactly contributed to the middle-east -> the west relations.

Although I do think the initial problems spawned a long long long long time ago when Islam started.
Christinianity wasnt tollerant vs Islam, and Islam, lead by Mohammed was on its way to conquering more than 65% of the christian world, due to (in contrary to what we might see in Medieval movies ) Europe being a cultural, economical and military mess.

The fanatical response to that were the Crusades, which failed miserably but left a stain on the relations (some might say forever), due to things like the massacre of Jerusalem.

After that Islam destroyed the Byzantines and went all the way up to Austria on one end, and on the other side from Spain into France, where they were defeated.
More christian crusades we're called which each ended in bloody massacres.

After that the reason "Christianity is still here" is because military and economical power shifted to Europe, largely due to imperialism.
Europe's focus from "defending against the east", shifted to rivalry between the large European nations England and France.
It looks like from there the Middle-Eastern power crumbled into the current mess.

Western Foreign policy after that (even within the last 100 years) obstructed what could have been better relations between the Middle-East and West.

Unfortunatly nowadays polarisation is at its peak, with people like Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and George Bush.
What sickens me is that now the ordinary Middle-East and Western person gets pulled into somebody else's sick fundementalist struggle. (this goes for both bush and the islamists)

Anyways, thats my 2cents, i'd interested to hear what others think

 

[The Kaiser]

Its not "just" the "culture" thing. Former (and some present) Western foreign policy hasnt exactly contributed to the middle-east -> the west relations.

Although I do think the initial problems spawned a long long long long time ago when Islam started.
Christinianity wasnt tollerant vs Islam, and Islam, lead by Mohammed was on its way to conquering more than 65% of the christian world, due to (in contrary to what we might see in Medieval movies ) Europe being a cultural, economical and military mess.

Not to mention the Islamic world having kept much of the Roman/Greek culture and information instead of destroying it like the Europeans did. Simply put, the Islamic world was simply better in everything than Christian Europe was, from culture to military matter. The only reason in the early years of the Dark and Medieval ages Islam did not completely roll over Europe was because of the Byzantines, who held them off until... 1463?

The fanatical response to that were the Crusades, which failed miserably but left a stain on the relations (some might say forever), due to things like the massacre of Jerusalem.

Actually, the First Crusade succeeded in a major way, and the European states carved many "Crusader Kingdoms" out of the Middle East to protect the Holy Land. It was not a good few dozen years later that the Turkish states pulled themselves together and smashed the Crusader armies there, that the other Crusades were called, which all really just fell flat, one way or the other.

After that Islam destroyed the Byzantines and went all the way up to Austria on one end, and on the other side from Spain into France, where they were defeated.

I do believe the Muslims had been forced out of Spain a good deal before the Byzantines fell, or at least had only a small foothold on Spanish mainland until a few years before 1500. The Muslims had been defeated in France I believe at the battle of Tours, circa 750ish.

More christian crusades we're called which each ended in bloody massacres.

After the Byzantines fell? Don't believe so. I think the Crusades went up to the 1200s, possibly. The Byzantine empire fell long after the Crusades stopped.

After that the reason "Christianity is still here" is because military and economical power shifted to Europe, largely due to imperialism.
Europe's focus from "defending against the east", shifted to rivalry between the large European nations England and France.

A good part due to rivalry, yes, but also in part due to the Renassaciance (spelling, eh), with a major overhauling over European life and whatnot.

It looks like from there the Middle-Eastern power crumbled into the current mess.

Well, by then the Ottoman Empire and Persia were basically the only two "Middle-East powers" left in the world, and while Persia never exactly was a power during that time, the Ottoman empire crumbled due to continued loss of territory to Imperial powers, and it's own corruption.

Foreign policy after that (even within the last 100 years) obstructed what could have been better relations between the Middle-East and West.

Mostly a lot of resentment comes from the continued interference by Western powers in land matters and such, not to mention a difference in religion and wealth.

Basically, the Middle-East in a sense has a grudge against us (mostly) and the rest of the West due to the problem with Isreal, former imperialism, and the Extremists who issue verdicts against Westerners who they see as violaters against Islam.

 

[theotherguy]

The first crusade was originally a call for help from the byzantines. The muslims had been taking over byzantine cities in the east and the byzantine emperor called for help from the many small and disorganized kingdoms in Europe.

Instead of helping the byzantines, however, the crusaders walked into constantinople, sacked it, raped the women, stole critical supplies and equipment, and burned much of it to the ground. They then went on to jerusalem to massacre everyone there.

Maybe if the crusaders had done what they were supposed to do, byzantium would have still been standing, and the course of history would have changed forever.

 

[Cole]

I think the main reason they hate us is because we created ISRAEL.

 

[The Kaiser]

The first crusade was originally a call for help from the byzantines. The muslims had been taking over byzantine cities in the east and the byzantine emperor called for help from the many small and disorganized kingdoms in Europe.

Instead of helping the byzantines, however, the crusaders walked into constantinople, sacked it, raped the women, stole critical supplies and equipment, and burned much of it to the ground. They then went on to jerusalem to massacre everyone there.

Maybe if the crusaders had done what they were supposed to do, byzantium would have still been standing, and the course of history would have changed forever.

Uhhh.... NO. Not the first Crusade, buddy. The Christians and Byzantines didn't get that much along in the first one, but it was the FOURTH Crusade when the French Knights toppled Constantinople. The first was pretty cool between the two.

 

[gick]

I think the main reason they hate us is because we created ISRAEL.

I think youve hit the nail on the head there. Of course, there are other reasons, but I think thats the main one.

As regards to the crusades, I certainly dont think that they are the reason for the animosity between east and west. They simply serve as a propaganda tool used by Islamic and middle eastern extremists to stir up anti western sentiment, playing on the ancient nationalist/racial/religious fears and memories of the middle east.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I reckon it's Israel thats the main problem, but now that the animosity exists, cultural conflicts have started

 

[Adabiviak]

Religion makes an interesting crutch, don't you think? Stand on it too long and you forget how to walk right.

 

[AçкяØñ]

I think it's the fact that their Church influences the state. It was a very good move on the American part of it's seperation, yeah it's true most of Europe and America are christians, but America has no official religon, thats the way it should be.

An other thing that upset the balance between Europe and the Middle-East: The Ottoman Empire in the 1300's the Ottoman's were led by radical islamic princapalities from what is now Turkmenistan. They saw Islam as a way to rule their nomadic people with an "iron fist" as Islam itself means submission. Well the Seljuk Turks around 1000 A.D. simply conquered anatolia (modern turkey) and swept south destroying countires like Iraq and Palestine. They took control of the entire middle east and spread across nothern Africa, and the Southern tip of Medieval Spain. The only thing blocking the Turks from Christian Europe was the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire (sorry for the history lesson) who controlled the largest city of the Medieval era Constantinople (now Istanbul). The Turks then closed Jerusalem off to everybody but themselves. Banishing chrisian and jewish pilgrims.

Then the Turks turned their sights away from the sands, and to the green lands of Europe, ready and willing to subdue an entire coninent, they began warring with the Byzantine Empire. So in fear of losing his country and people to the rise of a powerful religon, Emperor Alexius I Comnenus, asked the Roman Catholic Pope Urban II convened the Council of Clermont calling all Christian kingdoms to "Take Up The Cross" against Islam and retake the Holy Land.

Thus Began The First And Only Successful Crusade.

The Crusade left Europe in 1095 and reached Jerusalem in 1099. Afterwhich their overall anguish and frustration from the march to the city they killed EVERYONE once they got inside.

There is still another sotry i wish i could tell, but it would be way too long, and trust me. I've done my homework on Medieval History, especially the Crusades, and Fall of Constantinople.

But in all, that began the stuggle between the West and Radical Islam.

 

[CptStern]

I think it's the fact that their Church influences the state. It was a very good move on the American part of it's seperation,

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God" George H Bush, August 27, 1987

 

[theotherguy]

Uhhh.... NO. Not the first Crusade, buddy. The Christians and Byzantines didn't get that much along in the first one, but it was the FOURTH Crusade when the French Knights toppled Constantinople. The first was pretty cool between the two.

First Crusade
Full article: First Crusade

After Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks, in 1095 at the Council of Clermont Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, a war which would count as full penance. Crusader armies marched to Jerusalem, sacking several cities on their way. In 1099, they took Jerusalem and massacred the population. As a result of the First Crusade, several small Crusader states were created, notably the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Following this crusade there was a second, unsuccessful wave of crusaders, the Crusade of 1101.

source: wikipedia

 

[DigiQ8]

Im from the middle east and i dont hate the world....?

 

[Viperidae]

Im from the middle east and i dont hate the world....?

Lies. Everyone must follow stereotypes. For instance, I live in an igloo.

 

[Cole]

I think youve hit the nail on the head there. Of course, there are other reasons, but I think thats the main one.

As regards to the crusades, I certainly dont think that they are the reason for the animosity between east and west. They simply serve as a propaganda tool used by Islamic and middle eastern extremists to stir up anti western sentiment, playing on the ancient nationalist/racial/religious fears and memories of the middle east.

Exactly what I was thinking about the crusades.

We took pakistan and made Israel. Lets see....lets take a look at what happened when Israel was formed... they were attacked by a bunch of middle eastern nations!

Whos people killed there own leader because he signed a peace treaty with Israel??? EGYPT.

Yeah there is a lot of hate.

Who created and supports Israel? The United Nations created Israel and well basically the west supports Israel.

 

[The Kaiser]

After Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks, in 1095 at the Council of Clermont Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, a war which would count as full penance. Crusader armies marched to Jerusalem, sacking several cities on their way. In 1099, they took Jerusalem and massacred the population. As a result of the First Crusade, several small Crusader states were created, notably the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Following this crusade there was a second, unsuccessful wave of crusaders, the Crusade of 1101.

All you did was prove my point correct. You said, and I do quote;

The first crusade was originally a call for help from the byzantines. The muslims had been taking over byzantine cities in the east and the byzantine emperor called for help from the many small and disorganized kingdoms in Europe.

Instead of helping the byzantines, however, the crusaders walked into constantinople, sacked it, raped the women, stole critical supplies and equipment, and burned much of it to the ground. They then went on to jerusalem to massacre everyone there.

Perhaps I should have a been a bit more clear. By "not getting along well much, that doesn't mean they didn't not work together, but that the Byzantines, regardless of asking for help, were still suspicious of the Europeans. However as I said, the sacking of Constantinople occured not in the first, but the Fourth Crusade.

 

[Qonfused]

Lies. Everyone must follow stereotypes. For instance, I live in an igloo.

And I listen to country music, enjoy fishing and live in a trailor.

 

[DreadLord]

And I listen to country music, enjoy fishing and live in a trailor.

Oh RLY?

 

[Cole]

I live in wisconsin I must be a farmer and have cows!!

Err I don't have a farm. Although Wisconsin does produce a lot of beer and well....lets just say WE ARE A PRETTY BIG DRINKING STATE!! I'm proud.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Since when is the entire Middle East pissed off at the entire rest of the world?

Have you been listening to Republican propaganda again?

You're an idiot.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God" George H Bush, August 27, 1987

Yeah because what a one term president who was rejected by his own constituency says means the country is that way!

 

[The Kaiser]

Im from the middle east and i dont hate the world....?

Oh don't worry, most people just prefer to generalize, we know there are plenty of peace-loving people in the Middle East who only want to live their lives with family and friends, and in general aren't any different from most of us in the west over than religion. It's just that most people see the protests and extremists who are also over there, and don't recognize they aren't all that's there.

It's sort of like over here, when Pat Robinson or another extremist "Christian" gets on the podium and spews hate or intolerance, and everyone who isn't Christian just assumes that's what the majority of the Christians are like.

 

[99.vikram]

Yes, The Kaiser, but unfortunately these extremists shape world events to a greater extent than the passive majority does.

CptStern: Bush and his family are exceptions to most rules.

 

[Ome_Vince]

hey generalisation is in humans nature. We're just like any other animal.

Generalisation is one of the things that keeps animal species alive... :S
I'm not saying its good, but its kinda moronic to think mankind would ever reach a state where its totally free of any generalisation.
There will always be people discriminated/generalised, whether its because of a "big nose", the wrong "Nike Shoes" or the color of their skin (or religion..).

I think what is important is to realise generalisation comes from all corners of the world, not just "the west", which is what seems to be the trend these days.
Not put too much attention on it, and focus/fight the organised "forms" of discrimination.

Anyways, thats a bit off the subject We cant simply point fingers at Israel or the last 60 years and say, "thats the reason we've had problems with the middle-east."
Its not that black and white, and we simply cant deny/forget over 1300 years of history.
The west has been having problems with the middle east throughout history for all kinds of reasons.

There's not really 1 side to blame, but that is what fanatics on both "sides" wish to do.

A way to solve it would be for "us" to stop messing around in the Middle-East, giving the Islamists less material to work with..
(but i think that will happen only when the "oil runs out")...

Restrain Israel, create Palestine, but.. also protect and guarantee Israel's survival.
Heh, if only the world was that simple..

 

[Geogaddi]

And I listen to country music, enjoy fishing and live in a trailor.

I know lots of people that do all of the above. :O

 

[CptStern]

Yeah because what a one term president who was rejected by his own constituency says means the country is that way!

he said that before he was elected ...in any event, if the person who's about to become the single most important person in the US (president) says it there must some truth to it


but he's not the only one

and it wasnt the first or last time:

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job" - George W Bush

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301688.html

 

[secret friend]

b/c the west has been pissing on them for centuries. that's why

 

[Danimal]

Why is the middle-east so mad at the world?

Woudn't you be a little agitated at the world if you were contiounously getting invaded, bombed and metaphorically raped?