Why Obama / Why Not McCain?

lefty

lefty

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Sorry Lefty

Look down at repiV's post for the proper topic.
 
I see plenty of Obamamania on here - case in point, the frequent comments implying that you would have to be an idiot if you vote for McCain. Obama has also been hailed as the saviour of the world on numerous occassions.
While it's highly plausible that people vote for McCain because they are idiots, others will vote for McCain because he is less of a concern to them than Obama's fervent socialism and anti-gun rights stance.

I've also yet to see anyone explain in cogent and specific terms why they like Obama and what they think he can bring to the stage. It's usually vague and total nonsense like "change".
 
repiV said:
I see plenty of Obamamania on here - case in point, the frequent comments implying that you would have to be an idiot if you vote for McCain.
Click to expand...
Rejection of option A does not necessarily equal mania for option B.
 
repiV said:
I've also yet to see anyone explain in cogent and specific terms why they like Obama and what they think he can bring to the stage. It's usually vague and total nonsense like "change".
Click to expand...
Then maybe you should demand an answer in a thread that isn't about abuses of power by Sarah Palin, because I have this gut instinct that the discussion you mention won't be wrapped up within a few posts.

Also this:
Rejection of option A does not necessarily equal mania for option B.
Click to expand...
 
Eejit said:
Rejection of option A does not necessarily equal mania for option B.
Click to expand...

It's a two-party system. Voting for McCain is voting against Obama and vice versa. You can't assume that someone is an idiot for voting McCain - or Bush, for that matter.
 
Laivasse said:
Then maybe you should demand an answer in a thread that isn't about abuses of power by Sarah Palin, because I have this gut instinct that that discussion won't end within a few posts.
Click to expand...

I wasn't demanding an answer, it was quite clearly an observation based on reading the forum over the past several months. Gushing about Obama without understanding anything about him or the implications thereof is a sure sign of Obamamania.
 
repiV said:
It's usually vague and total nonsense
Click to expand...

Oh, for a second there I thought you went off to talk about McCains plans to fix the country.



Its not so much "obamamania" as much as its "hatehatehateMcCainmania." Obama isnt the best candidate ever, and if Ron Paul, or hell even Ralph Nader had a chance to be president I'd have a much harder decision to make. But Obamas only legitimate opponent is John McCain is very obviously a BAD choice of president.

For one, his campaign is running very much like George W. Bush's in that he promises change, promises to fix things, promises promises and promises, but never explains how he would keep them. He hardly even provides a vague outline of his plans, let alone any amount of specific changes. Bush did this too, and it makes me uneasy knowing that McCain is either unsure of what he is actually going to do, or even worse, unwilling to describe his plans. Obama has given an acceptable amount of information into how he plans on fixing the nation, and even if I dont agree with all of them, at least I can come to an opinion of his ideas, which I cant begin to say the same for McCain.


I'd love to hang around and type out a really long post as to why I am going to vote for Obama rather than McCain, but theres a Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway game at gamestop with my name on it. Sorry, but i've got priorities to deal with here.


EDIT: Ok, I took the liberty of making a thread just for this. Now I'm off to shoot some nazis.
 
Krynn72 said:
Oh, for a second there I thought you went off to talk about McCains plans to fix the country.



Its not so much "obamamania" as much as its "hatehatehateMcCainmania." Obama isnt the best candidate ever, and if Ron Paul, or hell even Ralph Nader had a chance to be president I'd have a much harder decision to make. But Obamas only legitimate opponent is John McCain is very obviously a BAD choice of president.

For one, his campaign is running very much like George W. Bush's in that he promises change, promises to fix things, promises promises and promises, but never explains how he would keep them. He hardly even provides a vague outline of his plans, let alone any amount of specific changes. Bush did this too, and it makes me uneasy knowing that McCain is either unsure of what he is actually going to do, or even worse, unwilling to describe his plans. Obama has given an acceptable amount of information into how he plans on fixing the nation, and even if I dont agree with all of them, at least I can come to an opinion of his ideas, which I cant begin to say the same for McCain.


I'd love to hang around and type out a really long post as to why I am going to vote for Obama rather than McCain, but theres a Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway game at gamestop with my name on it. Sorry, but i've got priorities to deal with here.
Click to expand...

A sensible and levelheaded answer, thankyou. :)

The point I'm getting at in general is that there is just as much ignorant left-wing extremism around as the reverse, a fact that doesn't receive a great deal of recognition in this forum.

In this country we certainly suffer far more from left-wing authoritarianism, "the politics of envy" and big brother government than anything else.

But then who knows how to define left- and right-wing anymore. You don't get much more socialist than bailing out the ****ing banks with taxpayer money.
 
Laivasse said:
Then maybe you should demand an answer in a thread that isn't about abuses of power by Sarah Palin, because I have this gut instinct that the discussion you mention won't be wrapped up within a few posts.
Click to expand...
Done lol

repiV said:
In this country we certainly suffer far more from left-wing authoritarianism, "the politics of envy"
Click to expand...
As a tangental aside, I'd really like to see you justify this some time (not the big brother bit, that's true enough). Fully argued, with sources, and using a sensible definition of socialism. Best not to discuss it at length in this thread, but if you ever get the time to create a new one...
 
Well thanks a lot sulkhead! Just go and make my thread redundant SEE IF I CARE!



;(
 
Because McCain might have a heart attack in office and leave Sarah Palin in charge. D:
 
No, I meant, why is there a thread that I started that I didn't start? I mean, obviously sulks took some posts from another thread and put it here, but why mine?
 
Eejit said:
Rejection of option A does not necessarily equal mania for option B.
Click to expand...

Agreed I think both candidates will tow the line for their parties and their parties financial backers all the way, without question once in office. However my big fear is the McCain would quite happily lead the world into further conflict, whereas Obama might attempt to defuse things, if nothing more than to try and stabilise the USA economy. What I found particularly troubling with McCain was when Congress refused the bailout initially, MCCain was openly recommending George Bush make it policy regardless of Congresses approval. There is a clear failure of wider understanding going on when a man seeking higher office promotes the 'my way, or the highway' approach to governance. McCain is a bull in a china shop, he's not a man used to compromise and seems ill suited to a role where tact and diplomacy will be required.


Jintor said:
Guys, guys, guys! Jesus... was JEWISH!
Click to expand...

Jesus was a Russian Peasant then? :LOL:
 
I personally am worried about this whole thing. On the one hand, many say that Obama could be the next JFK - he does seem that way admittedly - charismatic, wants radical change, has a badass name, etc. but part of me thinks that Obama is just going to be like Tony Blair - all talk and charisma, but no action. If Obama is actually genuine, then it will mean good news for america and the world, and if he is not, well, things can't get worse can they?

Mccain to me seems quite hotheaded. I dislike his idea of forming a sort of "UN" for western countries to work together. We all know he hates Iran with an incredible passion, and of course he has spoken out against Syria, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and various others, and if he thinks that America could fight all those wars then he is extremely naive and optimistic.

Shit, its hard. Having thought about it for a long time, and looking at the mess we are in now, I am beginning to lean more towards Ron Paul now (yes, I know he is out) as he actually seems to talk sense and isn't vague about his policies like Obama or Mccain.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
...but part of me thinks that Obama is just going to be like Tony Blair - all talk and charisma, but no action.
Click to expand...
This is a very valid concern and I think a lot of hopeful Americans could be in for a rude awakening once Obama gets into power.

My experience in Britain with Nu Gaybour (olol!!) has taught me that charismatic politicians who come to office with a mandate for change are probably too good to be true. Having assumed power, they are able to use that same charisma to their advantage in order to do anything it takes to retain power: by deflecting the press, by creating propaganda, by rallying the mindless and ever-trusting base, by cultivating the appearance of 'just an honest guy who believes what he believes and can't help that', etc...

In spite of this, there are two main reasons why I would still vote for Obama if I was American, both of them related to accountability. Acountability is IMO the most important aspect to consider when the electorate is caught in a 'lesser of two evils' scenario; if it's fair to assume that the politician you elect might turn out to be a qunt, you then need to consider questions like 'how hard will it be to eject them afterwards? How transparent will their lies be?'

And the first reason that the McCain presidency would be less subject to accountability is because they're far, far more guilty of all the style-over-substance accusations that have been levelled at the Obama campaign. McCain's run for office is just one huge, teetering tower of pathetic appeals to emotion, epitomised in the choice of Palin as his VP. Obama's greatest weapon might be his trademark eloquent, moving speeches, but at least you're hearing details in the middle of it all: he'll raise taxes on higher income earners, mandate health insurance for children and make it more affordable to others, emphasize diplomacy in foreign relations etc... I don't hear shit from McCain other than how he has a great record and how Obama is a terrorist (although that shouldn't really matter because clearly he's a very inexperienced terrorist, incapable of causing too big an explosion). Should McCain become president, he will have done so without really promising to do a damn thing, which in essence gives him carte blanche. He doesn't have to be answerable at all to the will of the people, because he has the support of the most fanatical and intransigent sectors of society sewn up: religious fundamentalists, racists, american-values-and-apple-pie voters, single issue voters like anti-abortionists and gun nuts, etc.

This leads into the second reason why Obama is more accountable. There is so much hope resting on him, and there will be so much consequent scrutiny upon how he performs, and a victory for him will have been contingent upon so many elements of good fortune, that should he significantly fail to live up to his promise it will be the end of him. Admittedly, I thought this might have been true for Blair too - coming into office on a wave of public euphoria after people were sick of Tory sleaze - but people continued to lap up his government's lies and corruption for years. However I think the desperation of Americans, as well as the cult of celebrity based on hope that follows Obama, surpasses that of the British when Blair was incumbent. I think if he's just more of the same, people will notice very quickly.

Which is worrying, really. I believe it's a good thing, if we are to be subject to a system where our leaders serve their own interests rather than ours, that power should change hands quickly and frequently. However, we could well be looking at a single Obama term followed by 8 more years of Republicans (or indeed Hillary) - not an appetising prospect.
 
repiV said:
I see plenty of Obamamania on here - case in point, the frequent comments implying that you would have to be an idiot if you vote for McCain. Obama has also been hailed as the saviour of the world on numerous occassions.
While it's highly plausible that people vote for McCain because they are idiots, others will vote for McCain because he is less of a concern to them than Obama's fervent socialism and anti-gun rights stance.

I've also yet to see anyone explain in cogent and specific terms why they like Obama and what they think he can bring to the stage. It's usually vague and total nonsense like "change".
Click to expand...



I like Obama because he isn't McCdrivel and Pallin the intolerant hick, and unlike McCain, Obama's ticket hasn't attracted swarms of ignorant intolerant hate filled hicks who think being an Arab is a crime amongst other intolerant attitudes.


The Republican ticket has bad policies and attracts bad people, enough said.


If America elects in McCain I hope your countries dies the quick death it'll deserve so its no longer a diseased boil on the face of humanity, you can have a Biblestan in the mid west, Modernia around the North East, and California can split away and continue to be the entertainment capital of the west.


And when Biblestan goes on killing blacks and all that religious bigotry and hate stuff, the other former US states can invade.
 
nurizeko said:
If America elects in McCain I hope your countries dies the quick death it'll deserve so its no longer a diseased boil on the face of humanity, you can have a Biblestan in the mid west, Modernia around the North East, and California can split away and continue to be the entertainment capital of the west.
Click to expand...

Yes of course, because without America we would all live in a happy hippie world!
 
Why Obama? Because he has a healthcare plan for all Americans. Obama because the next president will appoint several new supreme court justices, and I don't want them to be republican "good ol' boys" who overturn Roe v. Wade. Obama > McCain because huge tax breaks for corporations who have literally torn apart our economy have to stop, and because tax breaks for the extremely wealthy are so very innapropriate right now. Obama because he emphasizes diplomacy over military action. Obama because he plans to review the entire federal budget, line for line. Obama because he's the first presidential candidate in a very long time to acknowledge that we still have a long winding civil rights battle ahead of us. Obama because he actually cares about education and will back federal programs with actual money -- instead of going purely by test scores and further obliterating our public school system.

I just don't see how anyone can look at this election honestly, issue by issue and lock in for McCain. His horrendously misguided campaign and faltering stance on even core republican issues is pathetic. He's become a bitter and confused old politician, and surrounded himself with the likes of Rove and the Bush boys, yet adamantly denies it.

It's sad that a lot of you have bought the republican rhetoric that Obama doesn't actually have a plan to back his change, all it takes is scratching the surface of the key issues the United States is facing to realize that Obama has hundreds of times more specific a plan than Mr. McCain. If you want vague answers and uncomfortable closeness to powers of old, by all means, vote McCain.

Krynn72 said:
and if Ron Paul, or hell even Ralph Nader had a chance to be president I'd have a much harder decision to make.
Click to expand...

I will never, ever understand the unrelenting e-love for Mr. Paul. What's so exciting about his plans? Sure he'll let us all have our guns and drugs -- but beyond that? Can you really say that it's a good idea at this point to just about fully dismantle the powers of the federal government, including new deal assistance programs and return to a constitutionalist entity run almost entirely by state governments? Oh, sure, to hell with public education, social security, welfare and restrictions on big business. The free market will work everything out, right?
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
Yes of course, because without America we would all live in a happy hippie world!
Click to expand...


Actually I agree, America is overall a handy force in the world, but it needs some fixing, like the white supremacists festering at its rural heart.
 
jverne said:
omg...check this video out

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4515218n&tag=centerColumn;centerColumnContent


and...wtf
Click to expand...

Yeah it seems creepy lol, but I'm sure he was just being a nice old guy.

Edit: lol, I take that back, didn't realize it was an Obama Sticker, the guy is a racist asshole-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkFG1ebuKZU

jverne said:
Is it just me or there's something really "wrong" with this statement. How does receiving less donations make you more innocent??
Click to expand...

Well, I think it depends what you do with those donations you receive.
 
BHC said:
Why Obama? Because he has a healthcare plan for all Americans. Obama because the next president will appoint several new supreme court justices, and I don't want them to be republican "good ol' boys" who overturn Roe v. Wade. Obama > McCain because huge tax breaks for corporations who have literally torn apart our economy have to stop, and because tax breaks for the extremely wealthy are so very innapropriate right now. Obama because he emphasizes diplomacy over military action. Obama because he plans to review the entire federal budget, line for line. Obama because he's the first presidential candidate in a very long time to acknowledge that we still have a long winding civil rights battle ahead of us. Obama because he actually cares about education and will back federal programs with actual money -- instead of going purely by test scores and further obliterating our public school system.

I just don't see how anyone can look at this election honestly, issue by issue and lock in for McCain. His horrendously misguided campaign and faltering stance on even core republican issues is pathetic. He's become a bitter and confused old politician, and surrounded himself with the likes of Rove and the Bush boys, yet adamantly denies it.

It's sad that a lot of you have bought the republican rhetoric that Obama doesn't actually have a plan to back his change, all it takes is scratching the surface of the key issues the United States is facing to realize that Obama has hundreds of times more specific a plan than Mr. McCain. If you want vague answers and uncomfortable closeness to powers of old, by all means, vote McCain.



I will never, ever understand the unrelenting e-love for Mr. Paul. What's so exciting about his plans? Sure he'll let us all have our guns and drugs -- but beyond that? Can you really say that it's a good idea at this point to just about fully dismantle the powers of the federal government, including new deal assistance programs and return to a constitutionalist entity run almost entirely by state governments? Oh, sure, to hell with public education, social security, welfare and restrictions on big business. The free market will work everything out, right?
Click to expand...


Good post. Better than anything I can formulate right now. I agree completely.
 
The Mayans predicted the end of the world on December 21st 2012, if McCain is elected.

No really, true story. ;)

"A vote for McCain, is a vote for the apocalypse."
 
BHC said:
Why Obama? Because he has a healthcare plan for all Americans. Obama because the next president will appoint several new supreme court justices, and I don't want them to be republican "good ol' boys" who overturn Roe v. Wade. Obama > McCain because huge tax breaks for corporations who have literally torn apart our economy have to stop, and because tax breaks for the extremely wealthy are so very innapropriate right now. Obama because he emphasizes diplomacy over military action. Obama because he plans to review the entire federal budget, line for line. Obama because he's the first presidential candidate in a very long time to acknowledge that we still have a long winding civil rights battle ahead of us. Obama because he actually cares about education and will back federal programs with actual money -- instead of going purely by test scores and further obliterating our public school system.

I just don't see how anyone can look at this election honestly, issue by issue and lock in for McCain. His horrendously misguided campaign and faltering stance on even core republican issues is pathetic. He's become a bitter and confused old politician, and surrounded himself with the likes of Rove and the Bush boys, yet adamantly denies it.

It's sad that a lot of you have bought the republican rhetoric that Obama doesn't actually have a plan to back his change, all it takes is scratching the surface of the key issues the United States is facing to realize that Obama has hundreds of times more specific a plan than Mr. McCain. If you want vague answers and uncomfortable closeness to powers of old, by all means, vote McCain.
Click to expand...

This was indeed a nice post. I've been making some political posters for our campus since the election is right around the corner, you mind if I use some of this?
 
I'll be honest when I say that I'm voting Obama because I don't like McCain or that idiot he picked as a vice president.

However, I'm not entirely sure Obama is going to win. There are a lot of people in this country who simply won't vote for a black man (eg, seniors and rednecks). It's a shame.
 
I want Obama to win so America will collapse on a democrat's watch, not a republicans, so the blame might be equally shared.

Anyone that thinks Obama will actually do anything useful, I have a bridge to sell you.

Why Obama? Because he has a healthcare plan for all Americans
Click to expand...
Yes because the government runs everything so very well that we want to put them in charge of medicine now. Great idea.

No seriously Obama supporters, the fact that you think he'll make a difference makes me wonder what your officials are slipping in your water supply. Don't drink the water, it makes you forget!

They're both part of the big two, they'll both spout their party line, enter office, then it will be more-of-the-same for the next 4 years, only with more deficits and more government control of our lives.

Mark my words. I'll be back in 4 years to say "I told you so", and I can't wait.
 
MiccyNarc said:
I want Obama to win so America will collapse on a democrat's watch, not a republicans, so the blame might be equally shared.

Anyone that thinks Obama will actually do anything useful, I have a bridge to sell you.


Yes because the government runs everything so very well that we want to put them in charge of medicine now. Great idea.

No seriously Obama supporters, the fact that you think he'll make a difference makes me wonder what your officials are slipping in your water supply. Don't drink the water, it makes you forget!

They're both part of the big two, they'll both spout their party line, enter office, then it will be more-of-the-same for the next 4 years, only with more deficits and more government control of our lives.

Mark my words. I'll be back in 4 years to say "I told you so", and I can't wait.
Click to expand...

Strong words, but I'd like to hear from you a better alternative (in terms of medicine). It sounds instead of actually researching policies or even simply stating your opinion, you're just taking a nihilist perspective. Give me one good argument and I'll happily refute it. Are you trying to say you're a free market libertarian and the best option is relying on market competition bringing down the cost of health care?
 
So MiccyNarc, are you saying we should vote for McCain instead?

I agree with you that Obama won't do much, but at least he won't make things worse like McCain will. I'll take Obama over a war with Iran, more tax cuts for the rich, and lobbyists running the white house any day. Who was it that said the democrats are the party of no ideas while the republicans are the party of really bad ideas?
 
MiccyNarc said:
I want Obama to win so America will collapse on a democrat's watch, not a republicans, so the blame might be equally shared.

Anyone that thinks Obama will actually do anything useful, I have a bridge to sell you.


Yes because the government runs everything so very well that we want to put them in charge of medicine now. Great idea.

No seriously Obama supporters, the fact that you think he'll make a difference makes me wonder what your officials are slipping in your water supply. Don't drink the water, it makes you forget!

They're both part of the big two, they'll both spout their party line, enter office, then it will be more-of-the-same for the next 4 years, only with more deficits and more government control of our lives.

Mark my words. I'll be back in 4 years to say "I told you so", and I can't wait.
Click to expand...

Some presidents are in fact better than others. You seem to be suggesting that the very idea that anyone from the two parties (particularly the democratic party) could actually improve America's political and economic standing in the world is absurd. But that just isn't true ... there have been plenty of great presidents in the past who stepped in during times of hardship and made necessary changes that helped rehabilitate the country.

Whether Obama is one of them or not remains to be seen, but you offered no real argument to the people who believe that he is. You just stated an incorrect assumption that it doesn't matter who gets in because they're both the same and things won't change. Many important factors will be influenced by who becomes the next president, primarily foreign policy and the economy ... you argument is just wrong.

As far as his health care plan goes ... what are your specific objections to it? Do you prefer McCain's policy of removing state barriers so that insurance companies can all congregate in state's with the most lenient regulation? Do you think that it's a good idea to heavily tax employee health care plans ... and then when they get cut give the employee a government "credit" towards health care that is worth less than the one they just lost? All Obama is really doing is making it easier and cheaper for lower income families to get health care and making it mandatory for children.
 
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