Why Super Smash Bros is better than Street Fighter

[ríomhaire]

Controllers get broken sometimes, usually to shouts along the line of "I TOLD HIM TO JUMP, WHY DIDN'T HE ****ING JUMP?!"

Street Figher's moves aren't the most complicated to pull off, but even so I can't count the number of times I failed to Flash Kick while playing Street Fighter 2 on the Mega Drive (I always seemed bad at the down-up moves specifically, I don't know why). I also always seem to accidentally Hadoken when I'm trying to Shoryuken. This isn't a problem in Smash Bros because the moves are so simple. A is attack and B is special attack, you press any direction and A or B to perform different moves. Now, I'm not saying that Street Fighter should only use two buttons, but you could have (assuming a PS3 controller) the four shape buttons and R1 and L1 for the six punches and kicks, R2 for special moves and L2 for grabs.

If Ryu were in Smash Bros his special moves would be over+B for Hadoken, up+B for Shoryuken, down+B for Hurricane Kick probably a generic strong punch for just B. Yes, I am saying this as someone who sucks at normal combos and special moves in fighting games, but surely a game should be designed so that the player can easily do the action he wants to without needless complication or having to pause the game to check the moveslist to remember how to do stuff.

 

[Xevrex]

But... but...

Spoiler

That'd be casual.

:rolling:

 

[Murray]

/me sonic booms ríomhaire.

 

[Sheepo]

I agree.

/runs

 

[Eejit]

Darkside baiting, the sport of kings.

 

[VirusType2]

In some of the home versions of Street Fighter games, they have an option to select simplified control schemes like the one you describe. Auto-block even.

In my opinion, it's absolutely stupid for online mutliplayer. Here I can do all the moves to perfection and I have to fight some noob that uses easy mode.

 

[Cornerstone]

I can't play this game so obviously others are better!

 

[Vegeta897]

Super Smash Bros has 4 player battles.

Nuff said.

 

[Naph]

Super Smash has Wolf.

Nuff said.

 

[Stigmata]

I've always liked Smash Bros. far more than traditional fighters. The "learn a combo string for a character and use it to defeat everyone" play style isn't interesting to me.

 

[ktimekiller]

if that were so, tournaments wouldnt exist

 

[lefty]

Smash bros has kirby. Enough said.

 

[Viperidae]

Smash bros fights take 8 minutes each.

Enjoy your 250% damage.

 

[Darkside55]

 

[Stigmata]

Super Smash Bros: Your enemy is the other character.

Street Fighter: Your enemy, if your opponent is any good, is the ****ing controller.

:|

 

[ríomhaire]

*wallbreak.png*

Both obvious and dull Darkside. You've become a shadow of your former self. Image-only replies will never be as relevant or entertaining as a well thought-out counter-rant.

 

[Naph]

Sounds more like a similarity than a contrast there Stig

 

[Sheepo]

Seriously though, Brawl is amazingly awesome. **** casuals discrimination.

 

[Darkside55]

Both obvious and dull Darkside. You've become a shadow of your former self. Image-only replies will never be as relevant or entertaining as a well thought-out counter-rant.

Oh come on. There was even a subtle irony in the fact that I was crying "casuals" when I clearly busted through the wall with a shoryuken, signature of the scrubbiest character in the game. And what are you talking about, MSPaint rage is classic Darkside. Damn it man there's just no pleasing people anymore.

But if you want a counter-rant...

The problem is that you're simply bad. You, and everyone else in this thread who agrees with you are bad at fighters. I am not intending this to be a mean-spirited "Haha u suk" remark, as you've all pretty much attested to not being able to pull off the moves or want simplified controls. For whatever reason, maybe because you never had an arcade to practice at, a mentor to learn under, or are simply unwilling to take the time to learn how to properly execute the moves, you're bad at doing them.

So rather than practice the moves, you ask for simplified controls. You want the instant gratification, the easy mode, the "forward+B throws fireball." You think that by reducing the inputs on a fighter it would become more accessible, and thus more fun; that if you could "always do what you wanted to do" you would be better at the game.

It's ideas like this that break my heart, because it means that gamers are getting soft. Not only that, but they place little value on improving their skills. "I want to be able to throw a fireball with the simplest of inputs!" "You should only need to push one direction and one button to do a special move!" These kinds of thoughts break my heart.

What happened to the drive to master the invincible technique? Where is the passion in wanting to perfect the coordination of your hands so that you can throw out the shoryuken immediately to counter your enemy? Where is the self-gratification staying up night after night rolling your hand in a pretzel motion, your wrist crying out, your eyelids heavy and your countenance wearing thin, the very screws on your controller literally unscrewing themselves because of the rotation caused by the joystick, just to master the rising storm? And when you show up to the tournament, all eyes on you, being filmed with a hand camera, and that Ken jumps in the air and he thinks he has the win and your hand moves so fast it STRIKES the joystick with the force of God, and you capture him in a cage of energy to pull out an amazing win, and the crowd behind you--who knows the difficulty of the rising storm--erupts into massive cheers and whoops?

Where is that passion? Where is that fervor?

Where is the desire to master the rising storms, the summon sufferings, the calamitous symphonies, so that you know that at a moment's notice you can call upon them for the win? To know that you practiced and learned an incredible thing? To feel that PRIDE in knowing that you can pull off a move that once seemed beyond your understanding, and to watch those who crowd around you at the machine think, "Wow, that guy is amazing. That move is so hard to do and he does it effortlessly."

Would there be such pride if all you had to do was press forward+B?

You know, when I was younger, I was in a casino arcade in Reno. My parents went off gambling, left me with a few tokens, and I spent the night there. I was like 12, staying up at 1am, playing Darkstalkers 2: Vampire Hunter, and there was this move that I couldn't fathom: forward, down-forward, down, down-back, back + punch. A "simple" half-circle back, but at the time my mind couldn't comprehend it. And I stood there trying in vain over and over and over to do it and I just could NOT understand the bloody thing. It was as if it was beyond my ability to grasp.

And then this older guy came up...he must've been around 20...and he shadowed me on the 2P side, and he said to me, "No. You do it like this." And he spun the controller in a way my mind hadn't been able to understand, and he summoned a roaring dragon of flame to streak across the screen. And watching him do it, and understanding it, my hands perfectly mimicked his and I, too, summoned a dragon of blue-white fire to burn my opponent to cinders.

Do you know how happy I felt? Can you understand how wonderful that moment was to me? For me, who loves fighting games so much, who loves video games so much, that moment was the moment that opened my eyes to a world I had never seen before. I swelled with pride; I had done THAT move. It seems so simple to me now, but I can still remember the feeling that 12-year-old got when that move that had seemed so daunting, so impossible, became his. When he mastered it. It was no simple fireball or sonic boom, this was the HALF-CIRCLE BACK. It was joyous and glorious and amazing, and I will always thank that random arcade stranger.

Do you think I'd feel such pride if the move was reduced to forward+B? Would my chest swell if I simply had to input a single direction and button? Would I have grown up with any sort of dedication to practicing being good at fighters if all I had to do was sit back and tap up+punch for a shoryuken, forward+punch for a hadouken, and back+kick for a tatsumaki?

People wonder why there is casual hate. Everybody's just looking for fun in video games, right? The same entertainment. The problem is that you people have no concept of what it's like to really have the gratification in practicing, performing, perfecting something. You all want the easy mode. Baby's First Fighting Game (Brawl) might be fun, but you must remember that it is NOT a fighting game--it is a party game in which you fight. That is the difference.

And no matter how good you get at Brawl you will never be so amazing that the next man cannot replicate exactly what you did, and you will never have to strive to be better. You will never know glory in yourself, in your own skill, nor will you ever feel accomplishment that you have risen above others who gave up along the way because the moves were "too difficult."

Fuck your easy mode. I mastered the half-circle back.

 

[bam23]

/endthread

 

[Eejit]

Gaming shouldn't be fun, it should be hard backbreaking work damnit. You maggots make me sick. You should only receive gratification after hours of toil, dedicating yourself to the game completely.

 

[stemot]

Darkside knocks out a 50 hit ultra combo finisher and a perfect to end this thread. Well said.

 

[Darkside55]

Gaming shouldn't be fun, it should be hard backbreaking work damnit...You should only receive gratification after hours of toil

...Yeah. That's about right.

You shouldn't want recreation to be easy. There are very few hobbies that are easy; sports take practice, drawing takes practice, writing takes practice. So do video games. Part of the fun is being CHALLENGED. If you go around not wanting to be challenged in your life and just entertained, you might as well play the Instant Gratification game: it has one button, push it and YOU WIN!

Whenever people bring up this stupid, "GAMES R 4 FUN NOT WERK" argument, it's like admitting, "Listen, I don't want to have any sort of challenge in my life. I don't want to learn something, I don't want to practice something, I don't want to have to work to achieve something in my recreation time. Just plop me down in front of a monitor, hand me my controller, and let me press one button to win."

You don't even realize if games became that dumbed down you'd have two idiots with one-button controllers in their hands mashing away furiously trying to beat each other with easy mode moves. You'd still end up getting frustrated if you lost; the only difference is that you couldn't blame the complexity of the game. Would that really be "fun" to you? Simplified gameplay?

I mean, are you also the kind of person who likes to drink their food through a straw and have a pipe jammed into your ass so that the shit flows right down into the sewer?

 

[Eejit]

Darkside baiting, the sport of kings.

This very thread.

I actually agreed with the principle behind your post, even though I don't care for fighting games it applies to other genres I do enjoy.

 

[Darkside55]

I don't think there's any type of game where you don't have to practice to be good at it. Across all genres, gaming is like that. There are simple games, but you still have to learn the mechanics, and most games you can practice to become a better player.

 

[Sheepo]

I don't really want to argue and I guess I really can't. I've never felt that 'learning skills' was such an important aspect of games. I really just go for fun.

 

[Laivasse]

I appreciate both the one-button-move simplicity of Smash Brothers and the extra reward offered by a game like SF. Overall I probably feel a deeper attachment to the SF series, since like Darkside I've never really seen Smash Brothers as much more than a very fun party game.

IMO there are also other games that do the one-button thing well while remaining truer to the classical beat-em-up spirit than Smash Brothers does. Now, I know the word 'Naruto' immediately prompts all the chimpanzees to masturbate angrily and fling their shit at me but hear me out: the Naruto beat-em-ups on GC (Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 1-4 or Naruto: Clash of Ninja outside Japan) were some of the best fighting games I've ever played. The latter games in the series, especially, have a simplified one-button-plus-a-direction special move system, while still retaining a broad spectrum of possibility for building up godlike technique. You have a decent range of combos, dodging, counter-moves, combo breaks, dash attacks, directional missile attacks for all chars, multiple supers... At the same, you also have a 4 player simultaneous mode which feels a lot like the hectic party mayhem of SSBM. In fact the owner of the GC and the Naruto games also owned a copy of Smash Brothers, but we spent much more time playing Naruto. It's great UGADDABEREEBME

But yeah, as I say - I have a deeper attachment to more traditional and complex beat-em-ups... I can't say I've put as many hours as some have into getting good at SF. In fact there's an enormous gap in my fighting-game-life between SF:Alpha 2 and SF4. However, back when I was in my early teens, I used to visit a local arcade - little more than a market videogames stall with a few cabinets - with a friend of mine, where they had such great games as X-Men, Marvel Super Heroes and SF:Alpha 1&2 (plus a dusty old neglected cabinet running Mortal Kombat 1). My friend fit into the atmosphere of the place much better than I did, since I didn't have the requisite money, time or cockiness to be able to build up any sort of technique on any of the games available. I particularly avoided the SF:A-2 cabinet, since it was typically surrounded by a crowd of large, loud pakistani kids who I had no doubt would instantly pop a coin in the slot and shoryuken the crap out of me, should I have the gall to step up. I made only one abortive attempt to get into that game in the arcade; my friend looked on and mocked me by pleading to the CPU, 'Zangief, don't hit him with the Level 3... have mercy!' He didn't, but I still lost and then went back sulking to play my favourite Marvel Super Heroes.

Well, later on I picked up a copy of SF:Alpha2 for the Sega Saturn. Although I never became anything more than a slightly-better-than-average player, I nevertheless sank a lot of time into learning the moves and super combos of every single character, as well as doing my noobish best to come up with novel attack strategies in training mode. I grew to appreciate why Zangief's Final Atomic Buster had such a feared and revered reputation around the arcade cabinet - not only is it among the most damaging attacks in the game, for a human to be able to to pull it off requires a 720-degree roll of the D-pad. See, those full-circle moves used to be a lot less forgiving than they are in SF4; back on SF2:Special Championship Edition on the Megadrive, I hadn't even been able to pull off the simple Spinning Piledriver because the timing was too harsh for my kiddie thumbs. Yet in SF:Alpha 2, both Sodom and Zangief had these mindbending moves requiring TWO full circles... 'What a display of mastery it would be,' I thought, 'to pull off something like that in a proper match - shame I'll never do it.'

Except I DID, soon after - against that same friend who I had once used to visit the arcades with. Must be well over a decade ago now, but I still remember the room falling silent to the sound effect of Sodom's super combo kicking in. Beside Sodom on the screen, my friend's Rose cowered, clearly about to eat all three levels and both D-pad circles of abuse. Without looking at my friend, I could feel his whole demeanour crumple slightly as it sunk in what I was about to do to him. 'Oh Sodom, please don't hit him with the Level 3...!' - HA! And then the colour-burst on round's ending as Sodom wasted him... I knew that no matter what fancy technique he ever tried on me after that, it could never top that crowning moment of triumph - because my friend just wasn't good enough. DOMINATED! Yuh miniature delinquent...

You just don't get that in Smash Brothers et al, IMO.

 

[ríomhaire]

Everything Darkside has said is correct, but the big problem being is I'm not a fighting game fan. Sure, I enjoy them and always have. I have some very fond memories of Mortal Combat 2, Street Fighter 2 Championship Edition and Tekken Tag Tournament but I've never been very good at them. I match my brother in skill and that's enough for me to have fun, but it took my about a hundred tries to beat Seth in SF4 on easy mode.

I simply cannot compare to Darkside and I will never have the experiences you describe above. My games skillsets rest around FPSs and RTSs (though I've only rarely taken them online). So yeah, I am bitching because I suck at fighting games and I do want it to be casual. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, but when it comes to fighting I'm as casual as it gets.

 

[stemot]

Everything Darkside has said is correct, but the big problem being is I'm not a fighting game fan. Sure, I enjoy them and always have. I have some very fond memories of Mortal Combat 2, Street Fighter 2 Championship Edition and Tekken Tag Tournament but I've never been very good at them. I match my brother in skill and that's enough for me to have fun, but it took my about a hundred tries to beat Seth in SF4 on easy mode.

I simply cannot compare to Darkside and I will never have the experiences you describe above. My games skillsets rest around FPSs and RTSs (though I've only rarely taken them online). So yeah, I am bitching because I suck at fighting games and I do want it to be casual. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, but when it comes to fighting I'm as casual as it gets.

I suck at RTS games. I love Company Of Heroes and get pissed off because I cannot progress past the 4th campaign mission. This does not mean I want to see RTS games dumbed down to cater for my inability to play them competently. I'll just admire them from the sidelines and be in awe of people who are good at them.
If you like the simplified versions better than that's fine, but saying that a simplified version is better than something that has the depth and complexity to it's gameplay like Street Fighter has is just wrong.

 

[ríomhaire]

Oh the name of the thread was meant to be completely tongue-in-cheek. I don't actually think Super Smash Bros in better than Street Fighter (though at my skill level it is more fun). It was intended as a rant about how I can't handle old-fashoned fighters very well (and to bait Darkside a bit).

Another thing I like about Smash Bros is the lack of health bars. I think it's fantastic that you don't know if a certain attack will finish you off, and that you can recover from a seemingly fatal attack. It adds a lot of excitement to the whole thing. It's a bitch that you can be knocked down to 1HP, then have a massive turnabout and be hammering the shit out of your opponent, but you still have 1HP so if your opponent so much as taps you on the shoulder in return you get KO'd. Of course, having done this once or twice myself I can tell you successfully coming back from nothing is a fantastic experience.

I do think there should be a fighting game with a sort momentum system instead of health bars. As you damage an opponent you gain the advantage in the fight. The more you're winning the less effective the oppoents blocks and counters and the opponent's character will flinch more often. When you've worn your opponent down you finish him off with a single powerful finisher or a good combo. If the opponent gets in a good counter the momentum of the fight goes to him and he gets the advantage. The longer the fight goes on the faster momentum will swing one way or the other, and the harder it is to use counters. I would probably suck at this game, but I think it's a good idea.

 

[Darkside55]

the Naruto beat-em-ups on GC (Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 1-4 or Naruto: Clash of Ninja outside Japan) were some of the best fighting games I've ever played

BELIEVE IT. All the Naruto fighting games have been good. (Although I must admit I'm rather terrible at the Narutimate Hero series)

Also, high-five for being a Sodom player. There are very few of you. I always appreciate when people play (and dominate) with the obscure characters.

I suck at RTS games...This does not mean I want to see RTS games dumbed down to cater for my inability to play them competently.

Exactly the same. I'm crap at RTS. But of course, this is simply because I don't practice them--if I did, I'm sure I would get better with time. And that's exactly how you get better at any genre. It's just how much you want to get better that determines how far you go. That's the deciding factor between being terrible at a game and being good; how much you're willing to put into it.

It's like INFINITE rapped in Street Fighter 3:

Just practice, just challenge me when you're ready
weight your tactics, high punches, spin-kicks, watch the back-split

I do think there should be a fighting game with a sort momentum system instead of health bars. As you damage an opponent you gain the advantage in the fight. The more you're winning the less effective the oppoents blocks and counters and the opponent's character will flinch more often. When you've worn your opponent down you finish him off with a single powerful finisher or a good combo. If the opponent gets in a good counter the momentum of the fight goes to him and he gets the advantage. The longer the fight goes on the faster momentum will swing one way or the other, and the harder it is to use counters. I would probably suck at this game, but I think it's a good idea.

Man I think there IS a fighting game like that. I can't for the life of me remember if there really is or if I'm just imagining it, but I could swear there's a game exactly like what you described.

Maybe I'm just thinking of WWE-style wrestling games where a character gets fatigued the more he's pummeled on, and when they're at a suitable damage level you can pull off a strong technique on them.

The problem with a system like this is that it's unbalanced and doesn't allow for comebacks late in the game. Fighting games already incorporate momentum--it's just not in the game mechanics itself, it's in the players. When one player gets on a roll and starts destroying you it already becomes difficult to come back. That's why you learn, especially in tournament play, to avoid falling into your opponent's rhythm. If your opponent's pushing you around in the game your mind's already in a mode where you're trying to anticipate what he's going to do and how to break out of it; it's hard enough without the game actually handicapping you for it.

I suppose it'd be interesting to play, I'd definitely give a game like that a try simply because it'd be a crazy hard mechanic and I'd like to give it a whirl, but I don't think a game like that would really catch on.

The game'd have to be called Butthurt: The Fighter.

 

[ríomhaire]

Well I think for Butthurt: The Fighter to work you'd have to have a heavy emphasis on doing counters, which could help to turn around a fight for someone who's losing. But that's tricky too. You have to balance it so that counters don't become more effective than actually fighting. Maybe being able to counter counters with a well timed action?

It's hilarious in some WWE games when you can counter a counter counter counter.

 

[MFL]

I do think there should be a fighting game with a sort momentum system instead of health bars. As you damage an opponent you gain the advantage in the fight. The more you're winning the less effective the oppoents blocks and counters and the opponent's character will flinch more often. When you've worn your opponent down you finish him off with a single powerful finisher or a good combo. If the opponent gets in a good counter the momentum of the fight goes to him and he gets the advantage. The longer the fight goes on the faster momentum will swing one way or the other, and the harder it is to use counters. I would probably suck at this game, but I think it's a good idea.

Note to Riohhaire : http://toribash.com/

 

[ríomhaire]

*wikis toribash*

Toribash is a turn-based fighting game...

:|

 

[Vegeta897]

You have to see it for yourself Riom, "turn-based" will make you think it's something completely different than what it really is.

Though yeah it doesn't really play anything at all like a fighting game, but it is kind of fun if you can get the hang of it.

 

[Ennui]

Insinuating that Smash Brothers is a game only for casuals is retarded. My group of friends has been playing it religiously for years (we only play the original 64 version though) and it's a science. There are a lot of advanced techniques, short hopping and spiking and comboing etc that let you take the game as far as you want competitively. If someone who plays casually comes through my group and plays they get trounced and violated in every orifice. I would suggest it is equal to SF in terms of amount of skill/technique/speed.

I'm talking about shit like this (although these guys would destroy any of my friends):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHK8D77x_1I

 

[Eejit]

I don't think there's any type of game where you don't have to practice to be good at it. Across all genres, gaming is like that. There are simple games, but you still have to learn the mechanics, and most games you can practice to become a better player.

Point and click adventures are the exception.

 

[Saturos]

Oh come on. There was even a subtle irony in the fact that I was crying "casuals" when I clearly busted through the wall with a shoryuken, signature of the scrubbiest character in the game. And what are you talking about, MSPaint rage is classic Darkside. Damn it man there's just no pleasing people anymore.

But if you want a counter-rant...

The problem is that you're simply bad. You, and everyone else in this thread who agrees with you are bad at fighters. I am not intending this to be a mean-spirited "Haha u suk" remark, as you've all pretty much attested to not being able to pull off the moves or want simplified controls. For whatever reason, maybe because you never had an arcade to practice at, a mentor to learn under, or are simply unwilling to take the time to learn how to properly execute the moves, you're bad at doing them.

So rather than practice the moves, you ask for simplified controls. You want the instant gratification, the easy mode, the "forward+B throws fireball." You think that by reducing the inputs on a fighter it would become more accessible, and thus more fun; that if you could "always do what you wanted to do" you would be better at the game.

It's ideas like this that break my heart, because it means that gamers are getting soft. Not only that, but they place little value on improving their skills. "I want to be able to throw a fireball with the simplest of inputs!" "You should only need to push one direction and one button to do a special move!" These kinds of thoughts break my heart.

What happened to the drive to master the invincible technique? Where is the passion in wanting to perfect the coordination of your hands so that you can throw out the shoryuken immediately to counter your enemy? Where is the self-gratification staying up night after night rolling your hand in a pretzel motion, your wrist crying out, your eyelids heavy and your countenance wearing thin, the very screws on your controller literally unscrewing themselves because of the rotation caused by the joystick, just to master the rising storm? And when you show up to the tournament, all eyes on you, being filmed with a hand camera, and that Ken jumps in the air and he thinks he has the win and your hand moves so fast it STRIKES the joystick with the force of God, and you capture him in a cage of energy to pull out an amazing win, and the crowd behind you--who knows the difficulty of the rising storm--erupts into massive cheers and whoops?

Where is that passion? Where is that fervor?

Where is the desire to master the rising storms, the summon sufferings, the calamitous symphonies, so that you know that at a moment's notice you can call upon them for the win? To know that you practiced and learned an incredible thing? To feel that PRIDE in knowing that you can pull off a move that once seemed beyond your understanding, and to watch those who crowd around you at the machine think, "Wow, that guy is amazing. That move is so hard to do and he does it effortlessly."

Would there be such pride if all you had to do was press forward+B?

You know, when I was younger, I was in a casino arcade in Reno. My parents went off gambling, left me with a few tokens, and I spent the night there. I was like 12, staying up at 1am, playing Darkstalkers 2: Vampire Hunter, and there was this move that I couldn't fathom: forward, down-forward, down, down-back, back + punch. A "simple" half-circle back, but at the time my mind couldn't comprehend it. And I stood there trying in vain over and over and over to do it and I just could NOT understand the bloody thing. It was as if it was beyond my ability to grasp.

And then this older guy came up...he must've been around 20...and he shadowed me on the 2P side, and he said to me, "No. You do it like this." And he spun the controller in a way my mind hadn't been able to understand, and he summoned a roaring dragon of flame to streak across the screen. And watching him do it, and understanding it, my hands perfectly mimicked his and I, too, summoned a dragon of blue-white fire to burn my opponent to cinders.

Do you know how happy I felt? Can you understand how wonderful that moment was to me? For me, who loves fighting games so much, who loves video games so much, that moment was the moment that opened my eyes to a world I had never seen before. I swelled with pride; I had done THAT move. It seems so simple to me now, but I can still remember the feeling that 12-year-old got when that move that had seemed so daunting, so impossible, became his. When he mastered it. It was no simple fireball or sonic boom, this was the HALF-CIRCLE BACK. It was joyous and glorious and amazing, and I will always thank that random arcade stranger.

Do you think I'd feel such pride if the move was reduced to forward+B? Would my chest swell if I simply had to input a single direction and button? Would I have grown up with any sort of dedication to practicing being good at fighters if all I had to do was sit back and tap up+punch for a shoryuken, forward+punch for a hadouken, and back+kick for a tatsumaki?

People wonder why there is casual hate. Everybody's just looking for fun in video games, right? The same entertainment. The problem is that you people have no concept of what it's like to really have the gratification in practicing, performing, perfecting something. You all want the easy mode. Baby's First Fighting Game (Brawl) might be fun, but you must remember that it is NOT a fighting game--it is a party game in which you fight. That is the difference.

And no matter how good you get at Brawl you will never be so amazing that the next man cannot replicate exactly what you did, and you will never have to strive to be better. You will never know glory in yourself, in your own skill, nor will you ever feel accomplishment that you have risen above others who gave up along the way because the moves were "too difficult."

Fuck your easy mode. I mastered the half-circle back.

...Yeah. That's about right.

You shouldn't want recreation to be easy. There are very few hobbies that are easy; sports take practice, drawing takes practice, writing takes practice. So do video games. Part of the fun is being CHALLENGED. If you go around not wanting to be challenged in your life and just entertained, you might as well play the Instant Gratification game: it has one button, push it and YOU WIN!

Whenever people bring up this stupid, "GAMES R 4 FUN NOT WERK" argument, it's like admitting, "Listen, I don't want to have any sort of challenge in my life. I don't want to learn something, I don't want to practice something, I don't want to have to work to achieve something in my recreation time. Just plop me down in front of a monitor, hand me my controller, and let me press one button to win."

You don't even realize if games became that dumbed down you'd have two idiots with one-button controllers in their hands mashing away furiously trying to beat each other with easy mode moves. You'd still end up getting frustrated if you lost; the only difference is that you couldn't blame the complexity of the game. Would that really be "fun" to you? Simplified gameplay?

I mean, are you also the kind of person who likes to drink their food through a straw and have a pipe jammed into your ass so that the shit flows right down into the sewer?

^ Darkside55 just owned the shit out of this thread, and yes I too think games these days are too easy. Partially why I have a hard time finding modern games that interest me these days.

I used to take pride back in the NES days about beating tough games without using a GameGenie or cheats. I remember kids saying, "wow! you've beaten x amount of NES games?!?!" to one another. Nowadays, the end of a game is just as common as sitting through to the end of a movie. I've "beaten" probably around 27 games or so back in the day and all games I've "completed" since the PSone era don't count as there actually has to be a challenge to say you've "beaten" a game.

Gamers are getting just as weak as the rest of society. WHERE'S THE PRIDE?!?!?!

 

[Stigmata]

Darkside: I play fighting games for the strategy and the fighting, not to learn obtuse button combos. Smash Bros. strips away some absolutely needless complexity from the fighting genre. If you say that Street Fighter is superior because it uses button combos, then you're holding mechanical tricks above gameplay, and you're no longer in the same debate.

 

[nipples]

Point and click adventures are the exception.

It still takes practice to learn what objects you should use in adventure games.