Why Super Smash Bros is better than Street Fighter

Ennui said:
Insinuating that Smash Brothers is a game only for casuals is retarded. My group of friends has been playing it religiously for years (we only play the original 64 version though) and it's a science. There are a lot of advanced techniques, short hopping and spiking and comboing etc that let you take the game as far as you want competitively. If someone who plays casually comes through my group and plays they get trounced and violated in every orifice. I would suggest it is equal to SF in terms of amount of skill/technique/speed.

I'm talking about shit like this (although these guys would destroy any of my friends):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHK8D77x_1I
Click to expand...

Stigmata said:
Darkside: I play fighting games for the strategy and the fighting, not to learn obtuse button combos. Smash Bros. strips away some absolutely needless complexity from the fighting genre. If you say that Street Fighter is superior because it uses button combos, then you're holding mechanical tricks above gameplay, and you're no longer in the same debate.
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BAM AND BAM, MOTHER****ERS. These hooligans have said what I was planning to say all day.
 
Stigmata said:
Darkside: I play fighting games for the strategy and the fighting, not to learn obtuse button combos. Smash Bros. strips away some absolutely needless complexity from the fighting genre. If you say that Street Fighter is superior because it uses button combos, then you're holding mechanical tricks above gameplay, and you're no longer in the same debate.
Click to expand...

You clearly misunderstood what Darkside was saying. He doesn't hold the mechanical tricks above the gameplay. The mechanical tricks are the gameplay. The need to strive to be able to master these techniques to be better not only than other people, but to gain the feeling in accomplishment that comes with bettering yourself. it's not needless complexity when the actual complexity is so critical to the game experience.
Disagreeing about the need for such depth to the moves and combos because you have no experience in being able to accomplish them makes no sense. You can't accurately draw the conclusion such things are superfluous when you are unable to experience them.
 
stemot said:
You clearly misunderstood what Darkside was saying. He doesn't hold the mechanical tricks above the gameplay. The mechanical tricks are the gameplay. The need to strive to be able to master these techniques to be better not only than other people, but to gain the feeling in accomplishment that comes with bettering yourself. it's not needless complexity when the actual complexity is so critical to the game experience.
Disagreeing about the need for such depth to the moves and combos because you have no experience in being able to accomplish them makes no sense. You can't accurately draw the conclusion such things are superfluous when you are unable to experience them.
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So you don't play Street Fighter, you play the Street Fighter button combo meta-game?

[edit] And it's not as if I "haven't experienced" button combos in fighting games. I've played SF2, SF3, various Soul Caliburs, various Virtua Fighters, and I purchased DOA4 for the 360. I've played these games, and I got passably good at a couple of them (specifically DOA4 and Soul Calibur... 3, I think). Even when I could kick my friends' asses at these games, I still felt like I was cheating, because I'd either be pulling off moves they didn't know how to do, pulling off moves they didn't know how to defend, or not giving them enough time to physically input the button combo for the move that would have countered mine.
 
Hey,
Smash Bros. is gay
All the way
With a ray
Of sunlight
Over it's gayness
For the gays who play this gay.

****
 
The Street Fighter series is the greatest, single most important vs. fighting game of all time. Seriously? Smash bros.? Wow. Seasame Street 1-2-3 me too! fighting with a Nintendo theme. Watching the video posted here, it's just a jump kick timing contest.

Completely aligned with Darkside on this subject.
 
And yet you could not in your wildest dreams beat the guy who wins in that video no matter how much you played Smash 64. Which sort of disproves your point. Gameplay > "importance"
 
I'm just commenting on what was shown - what is supposedly some amazing Smash Bros. players, but it was just a jump kick/throw spam fest, something you might have seen 20 years ago at an arcade with a couple of Street Fighter amateurs. Show me something to gain my interest at least.

There's hundreds of Street Fighter videos out there if you want to witness skill, technique and great timing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-0yGrYawMg
 
VirusType2 said:
I'm just commenting on what was shown - what is supposedly some amazing Smash Bros. players, but it was just a jump kick/throw spam fest,
Click to expand...

What? There was little of either of those things in that video.
 
How is this debate continuing?! Casual party fun vs. the best fighter there has been. Oh, and special moves would hardly be special if you just had to push forward with a button. It's not as though SF moves are hard to pull off - it just takes a teeny, tiny bit of practice. It's combining the basics, specials, and reading your opponent that takes real skill.
 
Vegeta897 said:
What? There was little of either of those things in that video.
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Fox must have jump kicked 100-300 times, are we talking about the same thing here?

It's fine if you enjoy either game, but to say Street Fighter is a lesser game because the technique is challenging?

And shit, if you just want to jump kick and throw and shoot projectiles like Fox was doing in the video, you can do that in Street Fighter with a similar skill level. You don't have to learn every move to win. But at least the potential is there.
 
Completely two different games with different playstyles...why are we comparing them?
 
A game shouldn't be made more simple because you can't grasp one aspect of how to play it. Especially one so popular that obviously is right were it should be. SF and Smash are not comparable and should be different with their controls.
Just play smash then and have fun. It's the game you want. Just like SF fans play the game that has the type of challenge for them. Although they are a dying breed that likes that extra challenge.
 
Darkedge34 said:
Hey,
Smash Bros. is gay
All the way
With a ray
Of sunlight
Over it's gayness
For the gays who play this gay.

****
Click to expand...

VirusType2 said:
The Street Fighter series is the greatest, single most important vs. fighting game of all time. Seriously? Smash bros.? Wow. Seasame Street 1-2-3 me too! fighting with a Nintendo theme. Watching the video posted here, it's just a jump kick timing contest.
Click to expand...

Throwing away the argument for a moment to say that you guys are either moronic (more for darkedge) or terrible people (maybe that's a little harsh too, but hey, this is Smash Bros). Seriously, I can't imagine you guys know what you're talking about. Either go educate yourself or get some good taste. I'm probably wasting my time with darkedge, I've seen his true colors.

...

Okay, so the argument is "MY GAMEPLAY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GAMEPLAY!!!11!!". And everyone is so infatuated with the game on their side of the argument that nothing can be viewed objectively at all? Both games have a great amount of depth but have completely different play styles. I know that takes ncredible practice to master things in Street Fighter just as it took me years to master Smash Bros.
 
VirusType2 said:
Fox must have jump kicked 100-300 times, are we talking about the same thing here?

It's fine if you enjoy either game, but to say Street Fighter is a lesser game because the technique is challenging?

And shit, if you just want to jump kick and throw and shoot projectiles like Fox was doing in the video, you can do that in Street Fighter with a similar skill level. You don't have to learn every move to win. But at least the potential is there.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone said Street Fighter is a lesser game than Smash Bros for any reason. It seems it's the SF fanboys who are bitching about Smash Bros being in any way comparable to it. (not directed solely at you, and not meant to sound so uptight, that goes for the whole post)

Also, don't invoke something like "The Street Fighter series is the greatest, single most important vs. fighting game of all time" because that's a blatant logical fallacy and it's useless in this debate. "Importance" to a genre is irrelevant. Pong is perhaps the single most important video game ever created, but that means shit if we're talking about the tennis game with the best gameplay.
 
I make no qualms about the bias I have. I've played Street Fighter games for over 22 years and to me, Smash Bros. will always be just one of the hundreds of 'me too' fighting games that jumped on the bandwagon of a pioneer. I won't even consider trying to appreciate it.
I don't think anyone said Street Fighter is a lesser game than Smash Bros for any reason.
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Have a look at the thread title


EDIT: I'm not really taking this troll bait thread seriously, by the way. It goes without saying that it's a matter of opinion which is better. (SF CRUSHES YOUR SOUL FTW!!!!!11111)

<3
 
VirusType2 said:
Have a look at the thread title
Click to expand...
Aside from that :p


VirusType2 said:
EDIT: I'm not really taking this troll bait thread seriously, by the way. It goes without saying that it's a matter of opinion which is better. (SF CRUSHES YOUR SOUL FTW!!!!!11111)

<3
Click to expand...
Me either. I just like debating. When I use harsh words, it's with the assumption that nobody is taking it too seriously, so... I hope nobody is taking me too seriously.

<3
 
Why did you post the Daigo vid.

That's flair and nothing else. It doesn't show any of the game's depth.

Way to totally miss the point of your own argument.
 
I lost the links of the ones I wanted to post and didn't feel like searching around for the best video. I have very limited bandwidth for streaming, meaning I have to buffer for 10 minutes minimum. I ran out of time.

I don't believe I've seen the greatest SF match yet, so post something if you want.

If only I had been able to record all the fights I've had. I've had some incredible fights in my days.
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
Throwing away the argument for a moment to say that you guys are either moronic (more for darkedge) or terrible people (maybe that's a little harsh too, but hey, this is Smash Bros). Seriously, I can't imagine you guys know what you're talking about. Either go educate yourself or get some good taste. I'm probably wasting my time with darkedge, I've seen his true colors.

...

Okay, so the argument is "MY GAMEPLAY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GAMEPLAY!!!11!!". And everyone is so infatuated with the game on their side of the argument that nothing can be viewed objectively at all? Both games have a great amount of depth but have completely different play styles. I know that takes ncredible practice to master things in Street Fighter just as it took me years to master Smash Bros.
Click to expand...

You're a moron, and I've see YOUR true colors.

smash bros is teh geyz. real men play street fighters and donkey kongs.
 
This post isn't meant to prove anything in the SSBM/B vs. SF debate, just showing the depth of SF3 because Virus couldn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPHXJ9NPmuI
Notice the dancing around? They both know exactly what the other has as an arsenal. It's all about chaining jabs into other moves. Standard moves are way too slow. Every time you hear that spike/pinging sound and the character glows blue is when they've teched (moved into the attack during a small window of opportunity only a few frames in length, thus cancelling it and opening up the other guy to a counterattack).

And an example of just ONE glitch move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_F92rTawfQ

Notice the precision? One frame accuracy. I've never been able to pull this off, but then again I only have emulators to **** around with these days. Plus kenscrub rage.

At 0:47 of the first video I think that's what Daigo's trying to pull off, but I don't see the crouching frame, plus it seemed a little slow. So either he was trying to pull it off and failed (yeah, even Daigo screws up), or was just sp SRK spamming because he felt like it.

The vid Virus posted is a little OTT, because in regular play you're never going to be relying on parrying so often. It's a bit of an anomaly in that a) many people can actually do this consistently (Chun-Li having the highest number of hit SA [iirc], thus it's worth learning; also SA's are relatively easy to parry) and b) Daigo had 1 hp and had to try anyway. Very unusual, if not cool looking.

Here is a vid of someone consistently teching and winning because of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR7glu_rsPE

Gets good at 0:45.

And I'll wait for Darky to come and correct me.
 
The fact that you think all that was happening in that video was "a jump kick timing contest" just shows you have no idea what was going on and therefore have no real position to be making comparisons from. I am not saying SF is less complicated or less technical - it's a very different sort of game in that sense - only that Smash Brothers has way more depth than you clearly understand or are willing to assign to it. If you were playing either of those guys you would not have been able to get a single attack in edgewise and would have been 0% fivestocked. SF has specials and combos and intense metagame, and so does Smash. The latter simply has a more basic set of controls but the same amount of depth in the metagame in terms of prediction and reaction. In either one if you make one wrong move for one tenth of a second, dodge the wrong way or use the wrong attack or whatever, you're toast. This thread isn't about Smash fans shitting on SF, it's about SF fans who don't play Smash refusing to believe a game where you fight each other as Nintendo characters has competitive and technical depth.

e: and Viper none of that was directed at you, mostly Virus
 
1244564379157.jpg
 
Ennui said:
This thread isn't about Smash fans shitting on SF, it's about SF fans who don't play Smash refusing to believe a game where you fight each other as Nintendo characters has competitive and technical depth.
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What I tried to say, but better.
 
Darkedge34 said:
You're a moron, and I've see YOUR true colors.

smash bros is teh geyz. real men play street fighters and donkey kongs.
Click to expand...
Brilliant response. You've once again proven me so wrong.
Corp. Sheepo said:
Throwing away the argument for a moment to say that you guys are either moronic (more for darkedge) or terrible people (maybe that's a little harsh too, but hey, this is Smash Bros). Seriously, I can't imagine you guys know what you're talking about. Either go educate yourself or get some good taste.
Click to expand...

Virus, I really mean this. You need to go do this right now.
 
Darkedge34 said:
Anyone who plays Smash Bros. can't possibly know anything about good taste.

Douchefag.
Click to expand...

Master Troll is trying to learn subtlety, but Master Troll already knows four moves!
 
Ennui said:
Insinuating that Smash Brothers is a game only for casuals is retarded. There are a lot of advanced techniques...I would suggest it is equal to SF in terms of amount of skill/technique/speed.
Click to expand...

Ennui said:
This thread isn't about Smash fans shitting on SF, it's about SF fans who don't play Smash
Click to expand...
You know I play fighting games, don't you? I play all fighting games, even party fighting games. That's what I do. Assuming that I haven't attempted to completely break Smash Bros. within the very first games I played on 64 ten years ago would be a mistake. Believe me, I understand the 'depth' of Smash. In fact I have a friend who's a tournament destroyer at Smash, and I play the game with him sometimes when we're not playing Hokuto no Ken.

I know Smash. To say "it is equal to SF in terms of amount of skill/technique/speed" is false. This doesn't make it a bad game, but this is a rather uneducated point coming from someone who seems like they just play Smash Bros. I don't know how much you've played Street Fighter, Ennui, but play some 3S and tell me that they're comparable. I enjoy Smash for a romp, but it's no great technical fighter.
 
Where has this thread gone? From reading the first post, I thought it was about the controls in Super Smash Bros. being easier than the Street Fighter controls, but it looks like I thought completely wrong!

This thread looks like it's about which is the best fighting game!

I am going to write a whole essay about which one is better, because this will stop those stupid idiots from playing that other game. My opinions are right because I obviously know what I'm talking about. I know this is accomplishing a lot: making those fools learn what game is best, MINE! I know for a fact somebody who plays that stupid game will change their close minded opinion about my game after hearing this post. I know for a fact they can't play both and like them both equally. If you played both games and dislike the game I prefer, YOU ARE A TROLL WHO SHOULD GET BANNED AND LEARN SOME TASTE!

Here's a diagram explaining the skill that's required to play these games:
sf4vssb.jpg
 
Best first post I can recall reading in a long time, mainly because of the picture.
 
Laivasse said:
Best first post I can recall reading in a long time, mainly because of the picture.
Click to expand...
Obviously it's the words that make it a great first post. Anyone who doesn't agree is a troll or has no taste.
 
I don't want to have to dabble in the meta-game of reading people's high-falootin' wordmajigs. Why shouldn't forum viewing be be all about the casual blast you get from pictures?!
 
What's the matter? Sardonic rhetoric too complex for you, casual?
 
This thread is the best thread on hl2.net right now.
 
Chun-Li needs power armor... D=
 
You know I really want to know why they ditched Samus' green hair from the first game. It's one of those unexplained mysteries of gaming. Metroid she has awesome green hair, then she's got reddish hair, then she's a blonde.
 
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