Why the Israel/Palestine conflict isn't one sided...

[Raziaar]

And you know Hasan. You do need history lessons.

Here's a biased site. I know its biased, because the way it reads. None-the-less, it is a very interesting read, and not only that... it doesn't suffer from historical inaccuracies. The bias comes from the fact that the author supports the jews it seems, but there are no innacurracies in it, even from basic ancient history.

I mean, you can easily cross reference this stuff with the manuscripts and tablets and historical recordings of ancient civilizations such as the persians, and macedonians, and the greeks, and the romans, all whom signify the presence of Jews in the land of Israel, or Judea.

I mean... how can you so readily discredit all the ancient histories of these very influencial empires in the course of time. I mean... heck, the Romans didn't even like the jews, yet they still acknoledged their presence in Judea as a civilization, and even governed over them after they conquered the area.

I mean... seriously, all it takes is study of history, not propoganda, to know the facts. Not just one history. *MANY* histories of the peoples around the mediterranean sea.

 

[Eg.]

And you know Hasan. You do need history lessons.

Here's a biased site. I know its biased, because the way it reads. None-the-less, it is a very interesting read, and not only that... it doesn't suffer from historical inaccuracies. The bias comes from the fact that the author supports the jews it seems, but there are no innacurracies in it, even from basic ancient history.

I mean, you can easily cross reference this stuff with the manuscripts and tablets and historical recordings of ancient civilizations such as the persians, and macedonians, and the greeks, and the romans, all whom signify the presence of Jews in the land of Israel, or Judea.

I mean... how can you so readily discredit all the ancient histories of these very influencial empires in the course of time. I mean... heck, the Romans didn't even like the jews, yet they still acknoledged their presence in Judea as a civilization, and even governed over them after they conquered the area.

I mean... seriously, all it takes is study of history, not propoganda, to know the facts. Not just one history. *MANY* histories of the peoples around the mediterranean sea.

its beacuse they butter their bread left to right and not right to left

 

[Raziaar]

its beacuse they butter their bread left to right and not right to left

What? I don't get it. Maybe cause i'm tired, I dunno.

 

[hasan]

I like how some people pick on sub-topics and get into an endless useless argument that doesn't have much to do witht he subject.

Here's a biased site.

seems you forgot to put the link.

Here is a Brief history of Palestine
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history.htm

As you can see, people lived in this place looong before the jews.

That doesn't change the fact, that modern israel was established on genocide.

That's what the "refugees" issue is all about, these are the people who were driven out/ran away during the massacres.
Israel refuses to let them back in because they would distort the demographics!! aka why the hell would they bring the Arabs back when the establishment of their state was solely based on driving the arabs out?!
http://www.stanford.edu/group/cjip/nakbafaq.htm

During the late 1930s and early 1940s, many among the European Zionist leadership in Palestine openly favored "transfer" of the indigenous Palestinian population to make way for a future Jewish state.
As the colonial British Mandate of Palestine ended in 1947-48, clashes began and Zionist forces attacked Palestinian communities, in most cases driving out their inhabitants.
In other cases, Zionist forces conducted massacres of civilians (e.g. 100 villagers at Deir Yassin, 200 at Tantura) in order to induce the rest of the Palestinian population to flee.
Over 700,000 Palestinians -- 2/3 of the Palestinian population -- fled in panic at the Zionist attacks or were forcibly expelled by Zionist forces.
Zionist forces depopulated over 400 Palestinian towns and villages, many of which were purposefully demolished. The newly established Israeli government confiscated refugees' lands and properties and turned them over to Jewish immigrants.
Israel has since refused to allow Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and has refused to pay them compensation, as required by UN Resolution 194 of 1948.

http://www.palestine-net.com/geography/gifs/cleansed.gif
http://nakba.sis.gov.ps/english/destroyed-villages/destroyed-villages.html
http://www.alnakba.org/villages/villages.htm

 

[Raziaar]

Heh. For starters, before I read more of your post. Woops, noticed I failed to add the link. Thought I did.

http://www.masada2000.org/index-pf.html

 

[hasan]

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land.

except that the Muslim nation ruled it for the past 1300 years :angel:

so much for "Facts".

Even the word "Palestine" has no meaning in Arabic - every word in Arabic has some meaning deriving from the Koran

That is so wrong ..
although it has nothing to do with the subject .. but it shows how far from truth that article is.

This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return en masse to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s

The Jews did not displace anyone, because very few of the people who were there actually owned the land.

what has this to do with facts?
it's a zionist dogma/propaganda .. that Palestine is a land with no people, for people with no land.
That's why you see pro-israel sites claiming there is no such thing as "palestinian people" and often refer to them as "the peopel who don't exist".
and from that very same site:

.. the myth of a "Palestinian People."

That site has nothing to do with facts. It solely depends on lies and/or half-facts .. I think I've already responded to everything there.

EDIT:
Did I mentionm that Israelies think they have a Godly right to steal all the landscape between the Euphrates (a rive that runs thru Syria and Iraq) and the Niel (a river in Egypt).
The two blue lines in thier flag represent these two rivers.
Read this again:
http://patrobertson.com/teaching/TeachingonIsraelTerritory.asp

Every place on which the sole of your foot treads, I have given it to you, just as I spoke to Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory

 

[Raziaar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

There's a good unbiased history of the area's history.

Muslim wasn't even a word and Islam wasn't a religion when the semetic people occupied the area in ancient history.

 

[Raziaar]

EDIT:
Did I mentionm that Israelies think they have a Godly right to steal all the landscape between the Euphrates (a rive that runs thru Syria and Iraq) and the Niel (a river in Egypt).
The two blue lines in thier flag represent these two rivers.

Dude, lets not even go that route, 'godly right's'. Before I start digging up all the stuff from the muslim world and their rights. Lets stick with history, not religion.

 

[Eg.]

when and where again did these massacres take place? links if any?

the bread and butter comment is based on a Dr. Suess book where 2 things plan to kill eachother with pink pills because of the way they smear their butter

 

[hasan]

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch10.pdf
A United Nations' document on the refugees.

The hostilities that accompanied the establishment of the State
of Israel in 1948 led to the flight of some 750,000 refugees from
Palestine.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch11.pdf
UN doc. on settelments.

The Israelies are constantly eating away the palestinian land. They kick people out, demolish their houses, then build jewish settelments and bring jewish settelers.

That document is talkinag about israeli settelments in ocupied palestinian terrotiry. What happened in 1948 is not part of the topic, but it's pretty much the same thing, except it wasn't a state, but a bunch of gangs.

You can't ignore the religious aspect.
Israel is a "land for the jewish people". Why else would they reject the Palestinians the right to return? because they would outnumber the jews and israel will not remain jewish anymore.
If you followed the electioncampiegns in the US in 2004, Kerry said he is against the right of return of palestinian refugees because Israel is for the jewish people.

Anyways ..

Before I start digging up all the stuff from the muslim world and their rights.

what rights? we don't have any special rights.
You think that's gonna scare me?

and btw, here is an Islamic prespective on Palestine, along with historical facts (a mixture):
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_13.shtml

 

[seinfeldrules]

You can't ignore the religious aspect.
Israel is a "land for the jewish people". Why else would they reject the Palestinians the right to return? because they would outnumber the jews and israel will not remain jewish anymore.

Probably because they are killing Israeli children and innocent civilians daily.

 

[Spartan]

The conflict in a nutshell:

Faction A doesn't like faction B, and faction B doesn't like faction A. They fight and hopefully nuke each other at some point.

Faction A is evil. They kill little children! To avenge this gross injustice, faction B responds by killing some children, which is certainly what any one of us would do. Faction A, however, is not discouraged, so they bomb some shit. Faction B is like "shit shit who the **** is shooting us oh well fire missiles."

And so on.

 

[Raziaar]

The conflict in a nutshell:

Faction A doesn't like faction B, and faction B doesn't like faction A. They fight and hopefully nuke each other at some point. The end.

Ahhh, so there we have it. Support for nuclear usage in wars. I see your true colors now. You don't care about the struggles in each side, you just want them all to kill themselves.

 

[Spartan]

Ahhh, so there we have it. Support for nuclear usage in wars. I see your true colors now. You don't care about the struggles in each side, you just want them all to kill themselves.

I don't care if its nuclear or neutron bombs, as long as they would just stfu.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't care if its nuclear or neutron bombs, as long as they would just stfu.

You show your true colors nicely.

 

[Spartan]

You show your true colors nicely.

I always run in True Colour (24-bit).

 

[Spartan]

Everything I know about conflict I learned with End of the World.

 

[Eg.]

hasan, where are the massacres, you seemd to have dropped that in favor of refugees. refugees are nothing compare to "genocide"

and to show which side is doing more of the "genocide"

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...icide+victims&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&sa=G

 

[Spartan]

Seems like someone genocided all the images in your link...

 

[Raziaar]

Seems like someone genocided all the images in your link...

Seems the forums blotched out one of the words that was in the link. I got rid of the http:// part to show the example.



images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://members.***********/~mistero/terrorpic08.jpg&imgrefurl=http://members.***********/~mistero/ajphotos.html&h=181&w=274&sz=20&tbnid=P67KiwrEGLYJ:&tbnh=72&tbnw=108&start=11&prev=/images%3Fq%3Disraeli%2Bsuicide%2Bvictims%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG

 

[Spartan]

That url... is difficult.

 

[Eg.]

damnitt, oh well, just google isreali suicide victims to see what i mean, btw, where are the pic of the massacres hasan?

 

[Spartan]

The entire conflict is completely without any meaning or purpose, so I don't care who killed who.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So, what does this thread bring to the table?

OMG TEH JEWS

-or-

OMG TEH ARABS

... I really dont know which ...

 

[Eg.]

that the jews should make sure they show the arabs are right, and burn some arab cities down

 

[Shad0hawK]

damnitt, oh well, just google isreali suicide victims to see what i mean, btw, where are the pic of the massacres hasan?

they happened just because hasan said so, just like we should just ignore the historical record and believe what hasan says.

 

[Shad0hawK]

here is what jordan did about the "palestinian problem"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

things got so bad "palestinians" crossed into israel to surrender to the israeli's rather than the "jordanians"

funny hasan did not bring up the fact that to date jordan has killed many many more "palestinians" than israel has...

 

[Eg.]

here is what jordan did about the "palestinian problem"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

things got so bad "palestinians" crossed into israel to surrender to the israeli's rather than the "jordanians"

funny hasan did not bring up the fact that to date jordan has killed many many more "palestinians" than israel has...

pwnd by basic research skills

 

[Eg.]

i have the last word in this thread, isreal should kick out teh arabs

 

[hasan]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8B6EB4AA-E7C3-49AC-9F3E-A70603635511.htm

The rulers of jordan and egypt (and well, pretty much all arab rulers who were mostly puppet gov'ts installed by british and french colonizers) these rulers were all traitors, they literally sold palestine so that they can stay in thier chairs.
especially King Hussien of jordan and King Faruq of Egypt.

you didn't bring anything new.

 

[Eg.]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8B6EB4AA-E7C3-49AC-9F3E-A70603635511.htm

The rulers of jordan and egypt (and well, pretty much all arab rulers who were mostly puppet gov'ts installed by british and french colonizers) these rulers were all traitors, they literally sold palestine so that they can stay in thier chairs.
especially King Hussien of jordan and King Faruq of Egypt.

you didn't bring anything new.

so like, where are these massacres, aljazeera links at the least?