Why's the Lounge hidden?

[evil^milk]

So I logout and notice that The Longue and all the other forums in the Off topic section are hidden.

I wouldn't really mind if we had more activity going on in the lounge. Oh shit, did I say we don't have any activity in the lounge?

F*ck yes I did. I mean, it's not like the Off Topic forums are more active because of this.

3 viewing? Damn.

What I'm getting at is that this place is dead. Sure, it's the way all things must go, but must we precipitate its death with this decision to keep the better part of this forum hidden?

 

[Lucid]

Create quality topics that can generate some good discussion.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Inb4 frowny face reminds you of how we roll here.

 

[evil^milk]

Create quality topics that can generate some good discussion.

Yes, that can and has been done and will continue to be done - as long as there are people here.

The issue is not whether shit threads or good threads are being made, but why it has been decided that the off topic forums should remain hidden to potential new members who could contribute to topics that can generate discussion.

 

[Yuri]

Here's what Pi told me in another thread:

It's to tie in with the infraction system. Even at the highest (non-banned) infraction level, you can still read the lounge, albeit with reduced privileges. If you're banned, then you can't read it. If you log out, you can't read it.
The Lounge is not the main focus of the site for non-regulars and newcomers - most people who find hl2.net for the first time do so because of HL2 or Valve-related searches.
In fact, some could argue that The Lounge might put newcomers off...

but anyway, that's why I implemented it.

It kind of sucks but I get the reasoning behind it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Seriously, do you people think that people randomly come across the site, see the posts you make in The Lounge and then sign up just so that they can contribute? Seriously?

I've lost count of the number of times that people have posted "The forums are dead/dying" and yet we're still here. Activity-wise, we go through highs and lows. Making the off-topic sections visible again wouldn't suddenly make this the kicking, happening place that you think it should be.

 

[Acepilotf14]

the forums are dying, as is evident by this thread!

 

[Escaep]

We're all dying.

 

[Kaptain H]

I was actually the administrator of a pretty large forum for about six years, and played around with "general topics visible" on and off during that time. My experience tells me that there are people who look through the forum for interesting content before deciding to join, and many times the off-topic sections are a good judge of the overall personality of the members.

I found it best in the end to show all of the public forum sections, but limit posting by non-members, as an incentive to join. Just my two cents.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Seriously, do you people think that people randomly come across the site, see the posts you make in The Lounge and then sign up just so that they can contribute? Seriously?

They come because it's HL related, they stay for the lounge. There is only so much you can read lurking about HL. Without the lounge being public you lose a huge incentive for new members to join and contribute.

Who wants to talk only about only Half Life and Valve for 7 years straight? That's the impression new members get of what people do here from what they see on this forum.

 

[Druckles]

Damn, better jump ship, no-one's posting no more.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I'm cool with Pi punishing members by not letting them see the crap they posted that got them their infractions.

 

[evil^milk]

Seriously, do you people think that people randomly come across the site, see the posts you make in The Lounge and then sign up just so that they can contribute? Seriously?

Seriously, yes. It was the off-topic forums that made me stay, as a matter of fact, though I initially signed up to make HL2 related posts. But even so, by making the off-topic forums invisible, this place loses some of its appeal to a potential lurker, however small it could be.

I've lost count of the number of times that people have posted "The forums are dead/dying" and yet we're still here. Activity-wise, we go through highs and lows. Making the off-topic sections visible again wouldn't suddenly make this the kicking, happening place that you think it should be.

You're probably right. The constituents of the forums fluctuate according to people who come and go. No, this place will never remain the constant kicking, happening place some would like it to be; I only felt this was perhaps an all-time low since there was only one post in the span of a day in relation to the amount of people who were viewing the off-topic forum (who are now only members due to the "invisibility" of the off-topic forums).

Also, What Rakurai said.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Still trying to figure out what all you people have invested in the lounge being public that makes this such a hot issue.

 

[evil^milk]

Lack of forum activity, too much time on hands, etc. That's just me though.

 

[Danimal]

Pi Mu Rho has hidden the Lounge from the public eye to protect the opinions and actions of his various Agents.

 

[Krynn72]

Seriously, do you people think that people randomly come across the site, see the posts you make in The Lounge and then sign up just so that they can contribute? Seriously?

Used to be that way, because I could send links to my friends and show them good threads. Thats how mLink got here, because of the old image dumps. Its why my brother is here, and why a couple other people I introduced to the site are here. Now I can't send anybody links to anything interesting outside of the hl2 niche. Its not random chance that they're here, but its also not halflife that brought them here.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

I'd say this forum is dead and alive at random intervals - people actually have different things on their hands at different times, lasting different ammounts of time. So they don't post here, it's like that.

As long as we're here, these forums will last.. and as long as Valve is here, too.

It's a pitty, though, that The Lounge is hidden - why do some people have to bother registering if they aren't into Half-Life, or Portal, or whatever Valve game. Good discussions in The Lounge might attract them more, but as they don't even know it exists until they register, the forum might suffer a potential loss of new members.

I, myself, registered to discuss Half-Life-related subjects, but that gets old over the long wait for the sequel to the series. The Lounge is the only part of the forums that Is possibly unendingly interesting - until there are people to post fresh, new content!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Membership signup figures for 2010:

Jan 211
Feb 142
March 137
April 168
May 243
June 239
July 216

The Lounge was hidden in June.

 

[Druckles]

Dayum, February was cold.

 

[Tony]

Membership signup figures for 2010:

Jan 211
Feb 142
March 137
April 168
May 243
June 239
July 216

The Lounge was hidden in June.

You could argue that more people started signing up in June/July because that was when Valve started showing off Portal 2. I recall the forum was buzzing (for better or worse) when L4D2 was revealed June of last year.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Used to be that way, because I could send links to my friends and show them good threads. Thats how mLink got here, because of the old image dumps. Its why my brother is here, and why a couple other people I introduced to the site are here. Now I can't send anybody links to anything interesting outside of the hl2 niche. Its not random chance that they're here, but its also not halflife that brought them here.

What the hell are your friends doing not being registered HUH??

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

You could argue that more people started signing up in June/July because that was when Valve started showing off Portal 2. I recall the forum was buzzing (for better or worse) when L4D2 was revealed June of last year.

Undoubtedly, however, I was just showing that hiding The Lounge hasn't negatively impacted the signup figures.

 

[Krynn72]

Those numbers don't really prove anything. There are to many variables for it to be evidence one way or another.

 

[Interface]

If we could peer into a different side of the multiverse where we never made offtopic hidden to non-members and everything else is exactly the same, then we would be getting somewhere.

 

[Eejit]

Eejit dislikes this thread.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

The image dump had an appropriate image I thought belonged here.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Oh well.

It just seems that rather than trying to alleviate some of the concerns of members and taking constructive criticism, the site staff is trying to show how those concerns are wrong in the first place. Reminds me of the new Digg?

If The Lounge ends up being unhidden, and activity doesn't increase all THAT much, it'd still be disappointing to see it hidden again with that as the justification.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Oh, do shut up. While you may not have been privy to them, there's been numerous conversations with concerned members about the Lounge being hidden, and the infraction system. Criticism was heard, and acted on.
There's currently no valid reason to unhide the Lounge. Show me one, and I'll consider it. Until then, climb down off your high horse.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Used to be that way, because I could send links to my friends and show them good threads. Thats how mLink got here, because of the old image dumps. Its why my brother is here, and why a couple other people I introduced to the site are here. Now I can't send anybody links to anything interesting outside of the hl2 niche. Its not random chance that they're here, but its also not halflife that brought them here.

Also- another reason to unhide- because there is no reason TO hide it. We stated the reasons we think it should be unhidden and your reply was "oh, do shut up"

Like I said "It just seems that rather than trying to alleviate some of the concerns of members and taking constructive criticism, the site staff is trying to show how those concerns are wrong in the first place."

If you were concerned what members may think, make a public thread and ask for the forum's advice as a whole. Make a poll. Asking your private messaging netfriends what they think in an IM isn't asking the opinion of the forum as a whole. Until you do that, get off your 'high horse.'

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Also- another reason to unhide- because there is no reason TO hide it. We stated the reasons we think it should be unhidden and your reply was "oh, do shut up"

Like I said "It just seems that rather than trying to alleviate some of the concerns of members and taking constructive criticism, the site staff is trying to show how those concerns are wrong in the first place."

If you were concerned what members may think, make a public thread and ask for the forum's advice as a whole. Make a poll. Asking your private messaging netfriends what they think in an IM isn't asking the opinion of the forum as a whole. Until you do that, get off your 'high horse.'

Actually, there is a reason to hide it, as Erestheux quoted earlier in this very thread.
And no, I told you to shut up because of your attitude. You want me to take constructive criticism, then provide some. So far, the only thing even close to being relevant is that people can't link their friends to stuff in The Lounge as they're not members.
The number of signups hasn't declined since I did it, so that should alleviate the concerns that hiding The Lounge is killing the forums, but I will continue to monitor it and see how it goes.
Also, guess what? I don't need to ask the forum as a whole before I make a decision on these things. That's not how it works. I speak to the other staff about it, I implement it, then I adjust it as necessary. Just like I did with the new infraction system. I listened to the feedback and adjusted accordingly. Not all of that feedback came in the form of forum posts. Most of it came from forum regulars, as it tends to do.

So, again, (and just for your benefit) until there is a compelling reason to unhide The Lounge for non-members, it stays hidden.

You know, I didn't just wake up one morning and decide on a new way to **** with the forum members, giggling to myself as I implemented my devious scheme. You may not agree with it, but that's something else entirely. You want me to listen to you? Stop acting like a dick and present a valid and compelling argument. At the moment, you're just like a little dog, yapping because it wants another biscuit.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I really dont care one way or another if you listen to me, I never refer anyone here anyway. My point was that you brushed aside anything anyone had to say and your reasoning was that you PMd some of your buddies and they had no objections. Nobody cares if banned members happen to read something, just that they cant post their spam or drivel. They can just clear cookies and make a new account with a proxy, which is something somebody intent on harassing would have absolutely no problem doing.

Yeah, you don't need to seek the opinion of the forum before you do stuff. It's just very shitty moderation not do so, and generally doesnt pan out well in the long run. GOOD LUCK little man with your forum running. I'm done in this thread.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I really dont care one way or another if you listen to me, I never refer anyone here anyway. My point was that you brushed aside anything anyone had to say and your reasoning was that you PMd some of your buddies and they had no objections. Nobody cares if banned members happen to read something, just that they cant post their spam or drivel. They can just clear cookies and make a new account with a proxy, which is something somebody intent on harassing would have absolutely no problem doing.

Yeah, you don't need to seek the opinion of the forum before you do stuff. It's just very shitty moderation not do so, and generally doesnt pan out well in the long run. GOOD LUCK little man with your forum running. I'm done in this thread.

Interesting. So you actually completely ignore everything I said, and carried on ranting with things that you completely made up.
Still, good job you're done in this thread. I can carry on giving your opinion the careful consideration that it deserves.

 

[Asknoone]

I'm done in this thread.

Can't you be done with the whole forum?

 

[No Limit]

What, you mean this isn't a democracy? I knew it, ****en commies. Why do you hate freedom?

 

[evil^milk]

Here's what Pi told me in another thread:

Originally Posted by Pi Mu Rho View Post
It's to tie in with the infraction system. Even at the highest (non-banned) infraction level, you can still read the lounge, albeit with reduced privileges. If you're banned, then you can't read it. If you log out, you can't read it.

Well, I suppose that works, if the intent here is to "punish" people from reading the forum altogether after being banned.

What could a banned person do if they got banned and they could still see The Lounge? They'd lurk, until they were back. Worst case scenario, they make a duplicate account and get caught and banned again (which doesn't occur that often) if their behavior were to be repeated.

As far as I know this scenario can still happen with the Lounge being hidden.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

With the new infraction system, outright bans are more rare (as was the intention.) Instead, the worst offenders hit Level 3 and can't post replies or new threads. They can still log in, they can still read, they can still PM. Not sure about visitor messages, I'd have to check. It's more of a limbo state than a ban, and it wears off as the infractions expire.
If someone re-registers after a ban of any duration, then they get a permanent ban. They might get away with it short-term, but they always end up gone. This way, we tend to avoid the situation.

 

[VirusType2]

Not really following the thread, but I know the shit went down if Toaster Pastry. So, I'll add that I tried to link something to my brother, then remembered he can't even see it.

 

[Druckles]

How many people are actually at Level 3 compared to the number of active forum regulars?

Surely that's the point.

The number of infraction points issued would be another partial-measurement of the success of the scheme.

 

[Yuri]

How many people are actually at Level 3 compared to the number of active forum regulars? If the point of the off-topic sections being hidden is only to create a distinctions between two forms of punishment which most members won't ever actually encounter, then it doesn't quite seem worth the inconvenience it causes the rest of us. I don't mean to suggest that having to be logged in all the time or being unable to link non-members to threads is that great an inconvenience, but shit man doesn't it seem a bit over the top to make the most active part of the forum members-only solely because of the handful of members who misbehave?

But also lol it's an internet forum so idgaf, do what you wanna do

Also, it's only the off topic forums that become invisible, so it only affects the Level 3 banned people who ever post there... an even smaller group.