World of Warcraft teaches the Wrong Things

CptStern

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excellent article here on gamasutra about how successful games like WoW pigeon-hole what MMo games can/should be:

Here is what World of Warcraft teaches:

1. Investing a lot of time in something is worth more than actual skill
2. Time > skill is so fundamentally bad, that I'm still going to go on about it even though I started a new number.
3. Group > Solo.
4. Group > Solo. ..expands on # 3
5. Guilds: fosters "us vs them" mentality
6. The Terms of Service ...talks about how blizzard tries to avoid problems by making new rules


here's an excerpt from # 2:


.....playing by yourself in MMO is perfectly valid thing to do. You are part of the player-driven economy. You see a living world around you with people doing their business, laughing together, and arguing. You can group with people when you like, or not if you don't feel like it. It's an experience wholly different than a single-player game, and no serious person could think otherwise. The best way to put it is that it captures the concept of "being alone together" with other people. Going to a movie by yourself so you share the experience with the others in the audience. Going to a study hall where other people are studying, rather than staying in your room alone. There is a very big demand for the ability to "be alone together" in a shared social environment that allows grouping and social interaction, but does not force it by making almost all end-game content in the form of 40-man raids.

Warcraft—maybe accidentally—hit upon this concept, and now seems spit on it and all those who appreciate it. If a Blizzard developer read this, his PR department would say they are not spitting on this play-style, but unfortunately the game design speaks louder than words. "Spit on" is exactly how I feel. But far worse is the idea that millions of children are learning that doing things on your own is bad. Albert Einstein accomplished far more in the field of physics by himself during off-time as a patent clerk than a 40-man raid of so-so physicists ever would. I want little Johnny in Idaho to learn that lesson, but he sure won't find it in World of Warcraft. 40 mundane people with a lot of time would put Albert Einstein to shame any day of the week in this game.
 
Being with a group is better than being solo. You have someone to watch your back and help you.
 
Man, no matter what someone will find a way to take anything too seriously. World of Warcraft is the way it is because thats what most people find fun, its not any more complicated than that.
 
I like soloing in WoW ...I usually only party up out of necessity ..then again I'm only lvl 40 ...I just find parties to be far too slow moving for me plus I like the freedom to explore that soloing allows me to do. I mainfly bought WoW and not EQ2 because it relied less on partying than WoW ...not everyone has 3 hours to play consecutively
 
I prefer to party with friends and have fun and hijinks.

And in the game too.

CptStern/Article said:
But far worse is the idea that millions of children are learning that doing things on your own is bad.
Pardon? Is that a joke or does the article really think that kids will link group dynamics in WoW and doing stuff in real life? o_O
 
yes but I have no friends :E . ...well none that are gamers
 
CptStern said:
1. Investing a lot of time in something is worth more than actual skill
2. Time > skill is so fundamentally bad, that I'm still going to go on about it even though I started a new number.
3. Group > Solo.
4. Group > Solo. ..expands on # 3
5. Guilds: fosters "us vs them" mentality
6. The Terms of Service ...talks about how blizzard tries to avoid problems by making new rules
How is this different from real life?
 
why dont you ask the person who wrote the article?
 
I think he kit on some interesting points, but then argued them in a piss-poor fashion. My real opinion is he needs to take a break from WOW.


I agree that MMOs should promote skill more than they do; and by pigenholing classes limits the possibilities of gameplay. Sure it may be more "balanced" but what if you could customize your character any way you wanted - someownat like Morrowind except more advanced.
 
phantomdesign said:
I agree that MMOs should promote skill more than they do; and by pigenholing classes limits the possibilities of gameplay. Sure it may be more "balanced" but what if you could customize your character any way you wanted - someownat like Morrowind except more advanced.


Exactly. I prefer much more choice in the direction of my character than what WoW and EQ have to offer.

If I want to train to use swords and train to use magic, i should be able to do so. Instead you have the cookie-cutter classes that are basically a kit where you build a character as the game creators saw it.

I liked how you can play by yourself much easier in WoW and Phantasy star than you could in EQ. but still there are many parts of the game (every dungeon) where you need a group if you plan to get any experience. The problem is like CaptStern said, you need 4 other people of the same level, and of complimenting classes, online at the same time, that are skilled at the game, with a few uninterupted hours to spend in a dungeon. Then, if you were all lucky enough to be at the same place at the same time looking for a group to complete the same dungeon, and assuming all of you can get along (which is a more difficult task than you may imagine ) more often than not, someone isn't up to the challenge and dies, and the party can't continue, so you may have wasted an ENTIRE DAY for NOTHING.

Like i said in the other thread, im done with MMORPG's for a while
 
If you could choose every skill sooner or later there would be skill trees that guarenteed success for sale on ebay. Balacing would become an issue. But ideally that's what I'd like to see, I dont like being pigeon-holed
 
I never want to get involved in WOW. I mean I never will since I do not like those kinds of games... You get the idea.
 
- A fair game does not give material advantages to one player over the other
- A fair game gives each player equal opportunity to bring whatever legal materials he wants (in our case, you can choose any character you want, no need to grind him to level 60. All players have immediate equal access to all characters.)
- It's ok (and the entire point!) to bring to the game a) more knowledge than your opponent about the nuances of the game, and b) more skill than your opponent.
hello guild wars.

eve online + guild wars would be the perfect mmorpg; by this, i mean keep it an awesoem space sim, but get anet to do pvp and so on. ;)

glad to see there are still people writing articles like this.
 
In our RPG mod we're doing skills and combat and magic very different from how "mainstream" games do it. :D I hope it works out. I foresee lots of tweaking.
 
Yeah, thats one of the things I hated about WoW. It was highly soloable and that could be a good or bad thing based on the kind of player you are. You could do almost everything yourself so grouping is not encouraged that much with the exception of raids. Back when I played Dark Age of Camelot you had to group with people otherwise you would get nowhere, and it was fun! Leveling 1-5 was enough of a challenge that you had to group with people if you wanted it to take under an hour :burp:
 
The whole thing with WoW is in order to compete in PvP you must group with others to get better gear.
 
I agree with the article

I also think that it's specifically designed to suck you in and get you addicted.
 
Spoonoop said:
Yeah, thats one of the things I hated about WoW. It was highly soloable and that could be a good or bad thing based on the kind of player you are. You could do almost everything yourself so grouping is not encouraged that much with the exception of raids. Back when I played Dark Age of Camelot you had to group with people otherwise you would get nowhere, and it was fun! Leveling 1-5 was enough of a challenge that you had to group with people if you wanted it to take under an hour :burp:

yea exactly.

Since many many players prefer to solo (myself included), when you did need help, looking for a group was that much harder becuase solo'ers didn't want to group.

So yea its a good and a bad thing
 
Hazar said:
I agree with the article

I also think that it's specifically designed to suck you in and get you addicted.

I was addicted for a few weeks then now i've gone off it a bit ... suppose i'll continue playing it again soon lol .. gets a bit boring after a lil while.
 
Being able to work in groups is a very useful skill to have in real life. Unless you are planning to start up your own company from the ground up, on your own, you will probably need to work with others, as a team.
 
CptStern said:
excellent article here on gamasutra about how successful games like WoW pigeon-hole what MMo games can/should be:

Here is what World of Warcraft teaches:

1. Investing a lot of time in something is worth more than actual skill
2. Time > skill is so fundamentally bad, that I'm still going to go on about it even though I started a new number.
3. Group > Solo.
4. Group > Solo. ..expands on # 3
5. Guilds: fosters "us vs them" mentality
6. The Terms of Service ...talks about how blizzard tries to avoid problems by making new rules


here's an excerpt from # 2:


.....playing by yourself in MMO is perfectly valid thing to do. You are part of the player-driven economy. You see a living world around you with people doing their business, laughing together, and arguing. You can group with people when you like, or not if you don't feel like it. It's an experience wholly different than a single-player game, and no serious person could think otherwise. The best way to put it is that it captures the concept of "being alone together" with other people. Going to a movie by yourself so you share the experience with the others in the audience. Going to a study hall where other people are studying, rather than staying in your room alone. There is a very big demand for the ability to "be alone together" in a shared social environment that allows grouping and social interaction, but does not force it by making almost all end-game content in the form of 40-man raids.

Warcraft—maybe accidentally—hit upon this concept, and now seems spit on it and all those who appreciate it. If a Blizzard developer read this, his PR department would say they are not spitting on this play-style, but unfortunately the game design speaks louder than words. "Spit on" is exactly how I feel. But far worse is the idea that millions of children are learning that doing things on your own is bad. Albert Einstein accomplished far more in the field of physics by himself during off-time as a patent clerk than a 40-man raid of so-so physicists ever would. I want little Johnny in Idaho to learn that lesson, but he sure won't find it in World of Warcraft. 40 mundane people with a lot of time would put Albert Einstein to shame any day of the week in this game.

Its a video game.
 
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