Worlds first fueless magnetic motor ready for sale.

[Death.Trap]

I'll belive it's fake when a scientific panel buys one, tries it out, and says pendelev is full of shit.

 

[gcomeau]

meanining the laws application to the device needs to be understood by those who think its getting something from nothing, whereas infact its using a controlled natural born force to create its momentum.

Gotcha. No problem then.

 

[jverne]

hmm...i cant fully understand...why are we breaking the laws of thermodynamics? so if a motor is powered by a natural magnet the magnet doesn't have any energy stored in it?? a natural magnet stops working when all the energy in it is used for making the magnetic field. so why do we get something from nothing?? i do belive in this, because i once read about a japanese scientist already working on such a project! the problem with natural magnetic motors is that they don't have enough torque to be applied on a vehicle or something alike...powerstation, why not!

eventualy the motor would stop, and loosing power while working

magnetic motors are an old idea, but they just didn't seem to work too well, until now (maybe!). on a normal electromagnetic motor, you can control the force, speed, on-off button (hehe),... replace the standard wiring with a natural magnet on a electromotor and you'll get an magnetic motor!

shielding might help, but the leaking magnetic forces (the direction the magnetic force) should be bounced back in the same direction (twowards the rotor), if the magnets are offset, i think it is quite difficult to aligin the forces to the right angle, i wonder how they did it?!

emm... how do you turn off this magnetic motor (4MW)

 

[the_lone_wolf]

Quote from the Perendev site:

The magnetic motor if left unchecked will reach such high revolutions that it will eventually destroy itself

- Where does this energy come from?

Now i don't have a probem with this motor as long as it's quoted efficiency is <100%, but the way this guy is going on about it makes it obvious he's talking about applying it in situations where it simply wouldn't work. In reality the efficiency drops significantly:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Perendev/MagneticMotor/KeithAnderson_statement/index.html

There are situations where these types of devices may be useful, but they are not "free energy", nor do they represent any sort of "overunity" phenomenon, nor any solution to the energy crisis.

To Quote Perendev:

World oil and gas 'running out'

Magnetic energy is pollution free

Could we be facing 'blackout' in the future? The short answer is yes

http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2005/1/13/153610/046/17

Perendev is almost surely a fraud. not only has he claimed overunity (Which is impossible) and skirted objective 3rd party testing, he's also taking money for a product that doesn't exist if Im not mistaken. Same old thing... folks have been pulling this scam with motor/generators for over 100 years now. Enough said there... (we dont discuss that sort of thing here ;-) )

This idea isn't new, it's been around for decades, it simply cannot be used in the way it's being portrayed (and worse, sold)

This link has a simplistic example and solution as to why it won't work in the way it's being shown:
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm#cheng

Someone mentioned Einstein, his work explained experimental results that didn't fit the theory of the time, it didn't challenge fundamental concepts which had been proven correct for many years

 

[clarky003]

that diagram does Not resemble the configuration of one of these motors,

you obviously havnt studied the components and layout of their motor carefully from the video's, . its an outer ring of magnets (stator) that close onto the inner ring (rotor) each magnet in the rotor aligned with the stator magnets , there are 3 spindles each offset slightly so that there is always meeting of the magnets to provide smooth acceleration and turning, Neodynium magnets repelling each other at a fixed distance, theres only one way for the rotor to go.. the offset allowing the inner rotor to spin round. because of the angled pressures. Now aslong as those magnets have their effect , they keep repelling consistantly across the whole surface area of interaction and keep going till either the magnets wear out, or you move the stator away.

it wouldnt work in the case of that diagram, but the actual layout consists of each magnet being offset, alligned with offset magnets in a stator. the stator is introduced to control speed.. and the shielding doesnt STOP the field of the magnet in key places , it pulls flux tighter to the magnets profile, reducing the effective distance of the unwanted force. it becomes so weak at the effecting distance due to the shielding and proximity in the rotor between magnets, that neutralising doesnt take place, or is too weak to stop the repulsion effect which overwhelms it.

simply put, its using nature, a force we dont understand. like we use the electron which we dont understand, you have to set up certain conditions to allow it to work, its catagorised as new science, and new science is far beyond the status Quo of text book science, and to be quite honest we gloat about it as if what we have done is amazing , but at the end of the day all we have written down are the blatant effects we observe that exist anyway with or without our observations... what a magical book.. we must know all , and be right.

anyway the proof of the pudding comes when people start buying the motor, i doubt they will be recieving something that doesnt work.

 

[verbose_mode]

Leaving aside all the arguments about the physics and mechanics of how this magnetic motor is supposed to work, let us look at if it actually does do what it claims to do. What evidence is there that this motor does do work (as in turn a generator, pump, itself, etc.) that doesn't come from Perendev Power? Is there another online source of examples of the magnetic motor working? Sample models being sent out to reviewers and independent scientific inquiry boards? Anything else?

(I knew I've seen the name Perendev Power somewhere before, and I've just realized from where:
Dan's Data Letters #116, next to last letter
http://www.dansdata.com/danletters116.htm
Interperate it in whatever way you want...)

 

[Hazar]

/me gives clarky a cookie for finding cool stuff again



edit: just watched the movies. That is completely awesome!

I just hope that they resist the urge to be bought up by some oil company.

 

[Dan]

anyway the proof of the pudding comes when people start buying the motor, i doubt they will be recieving something that doesnt work.

I doubt that they will receive anything at all. So how many have you bought so far?

 

[Tr0n]

Actually when you look at the design....it's so ****in simple I don't understand why anybody else hasn't thought of the same thing.

I'll post my thoughts later or if I get un-lazy.

 

[the_lone_wolf]

simply put, its using nature, a force we dont understand. like we use the electron which we dont understand, you have to set up certain conditions to allow it to work, its catagorised as new science, and new science is far beyond the status Quo of text book science, and to be quite honest we gloat about it as if what we have done is amazing , but at the end of the day all we have written down are the blatant effects we observe that exist anyway with or without our observations... what a magical book.. we must know all , and be right.

anyway the proof of the pudding comes when people start buying the motor, i doubt they will be recieving something that doesnt work.

Why is it that we don't see this thing powering a generator in anything more than a graphic? Could it be that:

Under load, {the magnets} run down very quickly. It doesn't take very long for magnets to lose their magnetism when they are constantly being put in opposition to one another.

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Perendev/MagneticMotor/KeithAnderson_statement/index.html

no dice my freind, irrespective of the "revolutionary" design the motor may well spin, however, to say you could use it as a source of electricity by attaching it to a generator is bull unless you are having to put energy into the closed system (the closed system includes the way the magnets were formed). It's no more than an intricate illusion, if i was being extra cynical i'd say it was designed to fool you long enough to get into your wallet.

as for proof of the pudding, i'll believe when someone shows me an accepted study (as in it's been published in a major physics journal) which shows it powering even a lightbulb, with no energy being lost (such as from the magnets de-magnetising) or shows me a customer who recieved one of these and it did what they say it will without "running out." Show e even a handful of respected scientists who will put their name on the line and say it works.

it will be proven to be a fraud, it's only a matter of time, between now and then we'll just have to keep arguing

 

[lePobz]

This guy is just going for laughs, It's all crap.

The idea looks simple enough, after all, any moron can see that two like poles of a magnet repel, heck, when they've repelled so far, why not stick another magnet in place of the first and harness the energy created from the repulsion pushing the first one away?

Few people realise or even appreciate that the energy gained from the repulsion is the SAME as that spent by putting the magnet there in the first place!! You had to spend energy forcing the magnets together to get them close enough to be able to push them apart. This guy Perendev effectivelysays he has found a way to 'shield' the flux from these specific critical locations to allow the magnets to get close without repulsion. Right OK, a few problems with that...

Was it just me not paying attention in my Physics classes or have they found a way to shield magnetic flux the way this guy Perendev is saying. Beacuse damn... As hard as I've tried, I couldn't shield magnetic flux in any of my experiments.. you know, the only way I could influence magnetic flux is with an electric current flowing through a coil, or with a metallic material with a magnetic permiability greater than air and that only redirected it. And Damn.. you know what the problem with using either of those methods are? Copper and Iron losses.. I'm not gonna explain the ins and outs of all this shit on the forums, I didn't sit on my arse listening to my Physics lecturer while paying my fees to give other people tuition, go google for it all. But the basics are... You can't move magnetic flux through a meduim without it creating a crazy effect called an induced current. Now this induced current actually tries to stop whatever is creating it, I'm sure you'd dig this notion too if you googled for "Lenz's law" and "Eddy currents".

Ok, so you can't really shield magnetic flux. You can only really redirect it, but you can't redirect it witout these side effects. Even if a rotor magnet managed to find itself infront of a stator magnet I think you'll find the energy needed to place it there would be far greater than the energy gained by its repulsion. (what about rotor friction too?).

Oh, and before I forget! Cutting out the wires in an attempt to kill of the effects of back emf, nice try, now you just have to worry about killing copper and iron losses.

And for all those who say "dawwg itz all tr00 itz jus dat wi don't understandz dah lawz of fermodynamikz"

1+2=3....

You can't say that 1+2=4, and say anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't understand the intricate laws of mathematics... Hoe, Laws are created to quantify and explain what happens. one dawg plus two dawgs gives us three dawgs QED from our definitions of what one, two, three and dawg are.

If I threw a brick at you, would you try to harness the energy in that flying brick and sell it?









Or would you realise that I gave up a few Joules of energy to make it fly...


If you want to get yourself some 'FREE' 'ZERO POINT ENERGY' get your arse inside a hamster wheel or go play some half-life 2, that has a really cool zero point energy gun, that shoots out energy from G-man only knows where..



Suck my balls.

 

[Dan]

1+2=3....

You can't say that 1+2=4, and say anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't understand the intricate laws of mathematics... Hoe, Laws are created to quantify and explain what happens. one dawg plus two dawgs gives us three dawgs QED from our definitions of what one, two, three and dawg are.

Your analogy about math is no good. Math is all about theoretical patterns and relations that exist only because we define it as such. Math has no relation to reality other than the applications where we apply it to the real world. But it is not based on something objective. Physics on the other hand is essentially trying to find the patterns of the physical realm. AKA we don't define it, we just observe it and find the relationships.

 

[lePobz]

Your analogy about math is no good. Math is all about theoretical patterns and relations that exist only because we define it as such. Math has no relation to reality other than the applications where we apply it to the real world. But it is not based on something objective. Physics on the other hand is essentially trying to find the patterns of the physical realm. AKA we don't define it, we just observe it and find the relationships.

I'm not likening maths to physics (although what you're saying has truth). I'm saying that some people who really don't know better (the type of people who just couldn't be arsed to turn up for their GCSE exams) who just spurt out crap about how other people who actually do know what they're talking about just don't understand it at all.

 

[boglito]

Approximately as bogus as the combustion engine that runs on water and aluminum.

How any semi-intelligent human being can fall for this scam without even a proper independent demonstration is beyond me. "You say you have a device that gives energy for free? How is that possible? By mumbo jumbo you say? Wow, science has come so far!"

.bog.

http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm - all you need to know

http://www.perendev-power.com/news.htm - release news

the updated news page tells all, in a short time company's, home owners, any free person will beable to purchase the worlds first commercially available magnetic motor,

Yes the laws of thermodynamics need to be re-addressed as being a little off. but if youve got the Mullar, with the coming energy crisis, supposedly just on the horizon. It may be worth it, it would mean powering your house wouldnt depend on your powerstation anymore, fully independant electricity... um... its about time,

hybrid idea's can be drawn on the design,

eg: placing the motor in a vaccum casing on a magnetic bearing, = less friciton , more torque,. Has excellent application for fueless veichles,

How does it work?
"Omg! you cant break my law of thermodynamics man!"

technically the law isnt broken, its misunderstood...
stating 'that you cant get something from nothing'
here you are getting something from something, with modern shielding materials, and powerful Neodymium magnets, they are able to use the repulsion force from surrounding magnets to drive a central rotor, all the magnets are offset in their position to induce the motion.

http://www.perendev-power.com/mm_howitworks.htm

Why does it work?

why does electricity work?... why does electrical energy move around a magnet in the way it does..? :x why do we have to understand something before we accept it..? the answer... we dont understand anyway, we never did.

the effects are known , the answers to the effects are not.

All that can be pointed out is the unique way the magnets are shielded, not fully known, they use the shielding to stop unwanted magnetic flux leakage that causes the neutralising affect, which would otherwise stop the rotor from turning.




Not wanting to affect the status Quo, (scientist's get miffed when that happens)

rocks the boat<

 

[verbose_mode]

It's threads like this that really make me feel that the concepts of basic logic are sorely underrepresented in schools the world over. Such importaint topics as the spotting of logical fallacies, the basis of logical thinking, and the reasons why the scientific method is used. That would help protect many people from con-men, hucksters, and snake-oil salesmen. Of course this'll never happen on such a large scale because it would weaken the effect of advertising, make political campaigning harder, tend to "break" religions, etc. But I digress...

Back to the motor; I have to ask, in what way do they pull apart the rotor magnet/stator magnet pairs without losing the rotational motion gained from the magnet pair being attracted to each other? I know that if you let two magnets get close together, say on each side of a piece of cardboard, you have to exert more force to pull them away from each other then the attractive force they exert on each other. How did Perendev Power go about overcoming this?

 

[lePobz]

Since the site is hosted in South Africa (haven for scammers/fraudsters) yet claims to be based in Germany (hub of engineering excellence) it's safe to assume that this is just another African mans way of ripping off gullable westerners.

Seems to be working, too... just search for the company in google to see for yourselves.

Whois info for, perendev-power.com:


Registrant:
 Perendev Power Development Pty Ltd
 13 Hillel Ave
 Northcliff
 Joahnnesburg, Gauteng 2195
 ZA

 Domain name: PERENDEV-POWER.COM

 Administrative Contact:
    Brady, Michael  [email protected]
    13 Hillel Ave
    Northcliff
    Joahnnesburg, Gauteng 2195
    ZA
    2711 888 2815    Fax: 2711 888 2815

 Technical Contact:
    dns-admin, dns-admin  [email protected]
    PO Box 84631
    Greenside
    Johannesburg, Gauteng 2034
    ZA
    +27 11 340 7200    Fax: +27 11 782 6842



 Registration Service Provider:
    M-Web Business Solutions, [email protected]
    +27 11 340 7200



 Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
 Record last updated on 05-Mar-2004.
 Record expires on 05-Mar-2005.
 Record created on 05-Mar-2004.

 Domain servers in listed order:
    NS1.MWEB.CO.ZA   
    NS2.MWEB.CO.ZA   


 Domain status: ACTIVE

 

[Dan]

however, aluminium is a viable source of energy. There's a lot of power bottled up in the production of aluminium

 

[verbose_mode]

Check out the link I posted earlier:
Dan's Data letters #116
http://www.dansdata.com/danletters116.htm

The second letter from the bottom of the page relates directly to Perendev Power and has many links to pages with info about how it's total bull and its owner is a recurring con-man.

If you have the time, make sure you read more on the site. The site's owner, Dan, is a big opponent to "science" fraudsters and cheats. There's a LOT of links in many of his letter responses to sites that are anti science fraud and anti-scam.

 

[verbose_mode]

however, aluminium is a viable source of energy. There's a lot of power bottled up in the production of aluminium

Yes, there is a lot of energy used in the process of mining aluminium ore, processing that ore into aluminium, then shaping it into a finished product, as well as in all the transport used to move it around. However, you could say the same thing about steel, silicon chips, plastics, glass, or any other processed material or product. Unless you're planning on burning the aluminium I don't see how you could possible call it a viable source of energy.

 

[Dan]

no, seriously, aluminium batteries are one of the major new technologies that are being worked on. You literally have to put in a lot of electricity to produce aluminium and so it makes a great energy storage... thing.

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/Hydrogendata.html (first hit on google)
scroll down to the bottom.
"A 20 lb. slab of aluminum has enough energy to power an electric car for over 500 miles"

http://www.fuelcellonline.com/BT/_Bulletin/00000012.htm

 

[mindless_moder]

hmm
http://www.macromedia.com/
http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm
(flip between both of them.)
does anyone see a lil ummm similarity ?

 

[Tr0n]

hmm
http://www.macromedia.com/
http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm
(flip between both of them.)
does anyone see a lil ummm similarity ?

Yea so?

Many many websites take each others layout.Hell...I bet HL2.net has a layout like someone elses.

 

[verbose_mode]

no, seriously, aluminium batteries are one of the major new technologies that are being worked on. You literally have to put in a lot of electricity to produce aluminium and so it makes a great energy storage... thing.

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/Hydrogendata.html (first hit on google)
scroll down to the bottom.
"A 20 lb. slab of aluminum has enough energy to power an electric car for over 500 miles"

http://www.fuelcellonline.com/BT/_Bulletin/00000012.htm

Dan, those two sites don't prove anything. The first one basicly just quotes back the energy density of aluminium and says that it could make a great battery, but doesn't say anything about how it would be done or the hurdles that have to be crossed to get it to work. It's just a postulation, nothing more.

The second page is a press release from about 4 years ago, which can say pretty much anything the "press releaser" wants it to. Press releases can just be put out there, no news outlet has to pick them up, and they can say anything they want. The news outlet would be the one to check the validity of the release, and if none pick it up...

 

[Dan]

I didn't say that aluminium batteries exist. (edit: well i found they do exist, they just aren't used too often because of corrosion and hydrogen gas) I was just saying that they are a plausable source of energy. The sites were just to point out that aluminum has a lot of potential energy stored in it, and there are a number of companies working on ways to harness that energy. It's not perpetual motion or anything. There's nothing really far out there about aluminum batteries. It's just an element which requires a lot of energy to deoxidize and thus can give off energy in doing the reverse.
I was trying to point out a fact, not spark a debate

 

[Dan]

I don't knnow why you are so against the idea, but here's more info on aluminum batteries:
http://www.cheminst.ca/ncw/articles/1991_aluminiumbattery_e.html
http://www.exo.net/~pauld/activities/AlAirBattery/alairbattery.html (how to make a simple aluminum battery out of foil)
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=717
http://www.ectechnic.co.uk/alumair.html
http://www.secat.net/answers_view_a...inum-Air_Fuel-Cell_for_Lightweight_Power.html

do you still doubt that aluminum is a battery? I can keep pasting the results of my 5 min google search if y ou like.

 

[verbose_mode]

Sorry if I came off sounding like I thought that aluminium could never be used in a battery.
I was trying to point out that the links you posted didn't go to very convincing pages, that's all.

 

[alco]

And I hope that "Perendev is a scammer!" article is fake. Free energy would do the world good.

Or it could cause the biggest economical depression since the 30's.

 

[Top Secret]

Or it could cause the biggest economical depression since the 30's.

True, but what would it matter? Then the developed worlds' main concern would be FOOD. Which would benefit the rest of the world. I think once society in all the world is a utopia, there will be no 'depressions' because there will be no money. Power and energy will be free. Crops will be grown and planted by themselves and all people have to do is live their lives and maybe contribute a few hours of production a week. :thumbs:

 

[Fender357]

*turns on conspiracy mode*

Well since big time oil companies control lots of things (aka: the rich, GW Bush, Cheney)...one of the things they can and possibly do control is the media.

Not wanting to jump onto the conspiracy bandwagon, but eh.... I do agree that new energy like this would almost defenitly be kept out of the media because of the fact that most major oil companies are all buddy up with the like 6 available media sources in the world (i'm talking about major media companies..like FOX).


Not to sound all comspiracy like....

 

[mindless_moder]

id like someone to point out atleast one other site that has copied a layout and design of another ..

 

[Brian Damage]

Wasn't there one a while back that ripped off parts of HL2.net?