You were lied to.

No, we weren't.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/12/1787340.php
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/index.html
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/jetliner.html
http://911review.com/errors/phantom/bumble.html
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

Even the stupidest conspiracy theorists know loose change is bullshit, as noted above.
Real, intelligent people take it even less seriously.

Anyways, this notion has already failed at logic in the last five or six threads on the same topic.

Guess who was lied to.

Surprise!
It was you.
 
Honestly how many of these nutjobs are gonna pop out of their holes and make a stupid post about those videos? Can't they think on their own at all?
 
I propose a new forum folder: Retread.
It's for ALL the subjects that spawn boring thread after boring thread, like "omg teh gman is gordan! lol" and "9/11 was the government! Oh noes! You're all being out to bed by The Man, losers!"
Whenever somoeone posts one of these types of threads, they are instantly moved, nay, expelled to Retread.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
No, we weren't.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/12/1787340.php
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/index.html
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/jetliner.html
http://911review.com/errors/phantom/bumble.html
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

Even the stupidest conspiracy theorists know loose change is bullshit, as noted above.
Real, intelligent people take it even less seriously.

Anyways, this notion has already failed at logic in the last five or six threads on the same topic.

Guess who was lied to.

Surprise!
It was you.
Click to expand...


Maybe the video alone wasn't enough.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7

Somehow, I have a hard time believing all of the whitnesses that say they felt, heard and saw secondary explosions in the buildings that day are just making things up to make things up.

Keep in mind, the video is meant not to answer questions, but to provide them, NOTHING ELSE... thats the whole point, that we have not gotten the investigation that many people still want.

I find that conspiracy theorists in this world are met with 2 groups of people: those who will consider and form their own observations and theories, and those who just disregard any dissenting voices as ideological and radical, un-american, or 'nutjobs' in this case.

If you can find answers to all of these points, I would gladly listen, otherwise you can shut the hell up and let people watch and listen to (OMG) a possible reasoning against the offical's.

-Why was there so little wreckage recovered from the plane that hit the pentagon and that crashed in PA?

-How could a jet liner punch neat holes so deep within the Pentagon?

-Why is there no evidence of damage to the Pentagon where the wings and jet turbines should have?

-What about the virtually untouched ground infront of the Pentagon?

-What explains the 'squibs' or large, concentrated emissions of debris and ash from the WTC towers during the collapse?

-What about the molten steel that was found 3 and 4 and 5 weeks after the collapse?

-What about video evidence of a possible thermite reaction within the WTC towers? [edit, fixed links]

A thermite reaction: http://www.yikers.com/video_thermite_destroys_all.html

WTC Tower before collapse: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863&q=cameraplanet+9/11

Another angle:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8564772103237441151&q=wtc+collapse

-How could jet fuel that mostly exploded in a fireball outside the buildings, end up melting the steel core, when kerosene doesn't even burn at hot enough temperatures to melt steel?

-How do you explain the abrupt pull of bomb sniffing dogs and security from the WTC towers just days before the attacks?

-How could hundreds of thousands of tons of steel and concrete simply be reduced to ASH in under 12 seconds, which is free fall speed for the distance. This means there was virtually no resistance from the (officially) intact building below the floors effected by the plane.

-What about all the put-options (put-options are predictions that the stock of the respective will fall) on Boeing and American Airlines stock days before the attack?

-What about the firey sparks (similar to thermite) photographed during the collapse.
 
How about you ****ing read the links Mecha posted. We are NOT wasting time discussing this for the thousandth time.
 
You don't have to, and I'm not forcing you. So leave.
 
How about you ****ing read the links Mecha posted. We are NOT wasting time discussing this for the thousandth time.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Keep in mind, the video is meant not to answer questions, but to provide them, NOTHING ELSE.
Click to expand...
You know that saying "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer?"

In this case, it's "ask a stupid question, get more intelligent answers than you deserve but immediately distrust those answers because they don't support the fantasy. Then repeat the same stupid questions ad nauseum until Veggie is forced to curse."
 
Retread. Seriously, it'd make everyone's lives SO much easier. Please.
 
My dad was standing a few hundred feet away. I think I'll take his word over someone who wasn't even there :|.
 
And you all just prove my point.
Click to expand...
2 groups of people: those who will consider and form their own observations and theories, and those who just disregard any dissenting voices as ideological and radical, un-american, or 'nutjobs' in this case.
Click to expand...

You didn't read the links I posted, did you?

By intentionally staying ignorant, and then calling us all wrong, you are the the one disregarding any "dissenting voices".
 
DeusExMachina said:
My dad was standing a few hundred feet away. I think I'll take his word over someone who wasn't even there :|.
Click to expand...




man I wonder they bother to post...Mecha is just gonna stomp then in the ground.
 
Static, I have damning evidence to prove you're right:

And by answering the 9-11 question, it also proves that G.W. Bush used a Tesla Howitzer to bring down the Space Shuttle Columbia... the very same weapon used to liquify the steel girders in the WTC.

Click here to learn more
 
Maybe I will repeat myself, since I guess I'm not the only ignorant one here. The goal of the video is not to provide answers. Rather, the video is meant to pose questions and demand the answers.

The most compelling argument I have heard against the video is that it does not provide scientifically-based evidence, rather references to testimonies and media reports. Which is 100% true. Thats all it is. Visit the link I provided, and you will see where a lot of the video's questions are coming from and the holes in the official stories.

Meanwhile... some of you might find this interesting http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html as it asks a lot of the same questions the video does, this time from a different perspective.

Maybe I will repeat myself again. The point of most of these 'conspiracy theories' is not to provide answers but to ask questions. Since the federal agencies, FBI/FEMA especially, destroyed/seized most of the evidence from the scenes, no one can say for sure what happened. So, how do we believe the official story? We can't, we just have to assume our government is honest. That, I believe, is the purpose of the documentary.
 
Why don't you ask the question "what is the purpose of the U.S. government?". Then ask "what is the purpose of government?". Then ask "what is the purpose of life?". No matter the answer, we still have to live out our dull, pointless lives in ignorance because we cant comprehend how the world works. /endrant
 
StAtiC said:
Maybe I will repeat myself, since I guess I'm not the only ignorant one here. The goal of the video is not to provide answers. Rather, the video is meant to pose questions and demand the answers.
Click to expand...
Haha that's why the title of the thread was "YOU WERE LIED TO" rather than "Were you lied to?"
 
Over one hundred people watched the exact plane hit the pentagon.
Far more respected scientists and other specialists identified it after the fact using their experience and intelligence.
Photographic evidence shows nothing unusual about the impact.
The "coverupped" video was, reportedly, at a bad angle and caught nothing of interest.
But, if it were actually a perfect angle and it captured the plane perfectly in slow-motion, all it would show would be the exact same thing seen by a over hundred eyewitnesses and far more respected scientific experts.
Questioning that plane is absolutely retarded.
Question that, mothrafukah.

Last I checked, the title of this thread wasn't "You were lied to???"
Let's face it. You were absolutely swayed by the video, and were hoping we'd greet you as our liberator.
Then all of a sudden - holy crow! - it turned out that there was a hook on the bait you took.

So now all of a sudden you're just "asking questions" based on the media which is 100% true and could never, EVER be distorted by the ramblings of the conspiracy community.
EVEN THOUGH you were already fooled into believing falsehoods with that very same 100% true media.

The original Loose Change video claimed a missile was fired out of the plane hitting the WTC.

They proved this by putting the pixelated video in slow-mo and then playing it backwards to make a little video artifact shot out of the plane.

This is the shit you're asking us to believe instead of the opinions and conclusions of the entire scientific community.
This is their scientific procedure: playing the tape in backwards in slow-mo and then acting as though the pixels are sinister, and then combine that with people reporting strange noises IN A DISASTER AREA in order to prove their intelligent point - which is that they aren't making a intelligent point. They're just questioning.

You're asking us to question the basis of human understanding because a home video video with less scientific reputation than the Star Wars Kid told you to.

Do I need to explain how you fail at life here?
Shouldn't this explain itself?

Free your mind, Jimmy. Take that red pill.
 
One more point:
In the other thread, you criticised Charlie Sheen's conspiracy claims:
Celebrities are pretty much worthless in this type of topic. Actually, theyre worthless in almost every topic. (sic)
Click to expand...

Hint: Loose Change's only merit, if you can call it a merit, is its internet celebrity.
It sure as hell isn't its science, or its intelligence.
(Most conspiracy theorists consider Loose Change to be so inherently stupid that it must actually be a propaganda film set up by the US government.)

Its one success is its viral marketing, to which you've fallen prey.
Fight the powa!
Down with BU$H!
Tell everyone you know about our new DVD - on sale now!
 
The guy that made the video was a kid with a myspace website and a forum. I really doubt he would go through the trouble of making an hour and a half long free video just to become popular...

That wasn't Charlie Sheen's conspiracy, that was Charlie Sheen using the theories of others and trying to get them out to the public. The fact that he states them, as I said, is worthless and irrelevant. The creator of the LC video probably actually cares about the issue.

You misread what I stated. I was saying that the fact that he used media clips was 100% ture, not the media clips themselves. Try actually reading what I say, instead of blindly attacking my claims.

Mecha, your posts on any conspiracy theory subject is nothing more than worthless since you clearly have prejudice towards any conspiracy theory or theorist... and you do it so blatantly it makes me laugh that people actually follow you because you are good at throwing misread postings back at people.

"Over one hundred people watched the exact plane hit the pentagon.
Far more respected scientists and other specialists identified it after the fact using their experience and intelligence.
Photographic evidence shows nothing unusual about the impact.
The "coverupped" video was, reportedly, at a bad angle and caught nothing of interest.
But, if it were actually a perfect angle and it captured the plane perfectly in slow-motion, all it would show would be the exact same thing seen by a over hundred eyewitnesses and far more respected scientific experts.
Questioning that plane is absolutely retarded.
Question that, mothrafukah."

Really? Did you even watch the video? The highway cameras had a wide view of that entire side of the pentagon. There was something like 5 camera recordings that were seized by the FBI because the plane crossed their paths, and you mean to tell me not one of them had the right angle? Do you have links for this?
 
The guy that made the video was a kid with a myspace website and a forum.
Click to expand...
OMG! HE must be a SMART GUY! I mean....HE ACTUALLY HAS A MYSPACE WEBSITE! Now I REALLY trust him!
I really doubt he would go through the trouble of making an hour and a half long free video just to become popular...
Click to expand...
ROFL!
People will do ANYTHING to get their name out there.
You're giving him what he wants:
Attention.
 
vegeta897 said:
Can someone help me handle this guy, in my guild. He's completely insane, and claims that all of those websites are works of the government. :LOL:

http://www.guildunknown.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1213&sid=8eee4c5102cbb7e908d5e2b7b3205966

Either register and post there or post here some helping arguments, because I'm not very well intelligent in politics and this whole thing in general. And he'll probably spew so much shit in defense that I will pass out from the stench.
Click to expand...
It's funnier and they get even angrier if you reply with stuff like "lol whatever crazy person" and that's it.
 
vegeta897 said:
Can someone help me handle this guy, in my guild. He's completely insane, and claims that all of those websites are works of the government. :LOL:

http://www.guildunknown.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1213&sid=8eee4c5102cbb7e908d5e2b7b3205966

Either register and post there or post here some helping arguments, because I'm not very well intelligent in politics and this whole thing in general. And he'll probably spew so much shit in defense that I will pass out from the stench.
Click to expand...
I'm just going to make a guess...
Is his name kathaksung?
 
I've decided to give up on him, forget what I said.
 
StAtiC said:
Really? Did you even watch the video? The highway cameras had a wide view of that entire side of the pentagon. There was something like 5 camera recordings that were seized by the FBI because the plane crossed their paths, and you mean to tell me not one of them had the right angle? Do you have links for this?
Click to expand...

Hint: What is on the tapes? What do they show?
Do they show that it was actually a UFO, or a cruise missile? Do they show anything that will exhonorate you?

NOPE.

Because the American Airlines flight is what hit the pentagon, according to all the eyewitnesses and all the scientists and all the photographs of plane parts at the scene.
Also according to the one tape they did release that no-one believes anyways because the internet told them to.

THE FACT THAT THE FBI COLLECTED THEM IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ALIEN SPACE BEAMS.

Of course I'm biased against the conspiracy folks. I have been reading conspiracy websites as a hobby for over nine years. Do you have any idea how many are written by self-described sufferers of bipolar disorder or schizophrenia? More than I remember.
Do you know how many are written by Aryan Sumpremacists and Neo-Nazis? Slightly more than that.
I've run into at least ten cult leaders (one professing that dolphins are alien UFO spirits), approximately two-hundred myspace (or pre-myspace) kids repeating the bipolar stuff, but with added X-Files gifs.
All the clearest photographic evidence of UFOs is easily proven fake. That's why well over 70% are identical blurry grey/white dots. Anything with better resolution is disproven.
The entire alien abduction phenomenon, which I have read into since 1996, is by all apprearances a currently unknown mental illness.
Those researchers who believe alien abduction is real pick-and-choose the accounts they extract through hypnosis. The story of one man being flown over Toronto while the aliens were re-arranging all the buildings was considered too fanciful, while a woman's stories of being transported down a mineshaft to an underground UFO hangar bay beneath her house are true?

George Bush is secretly a zionist jew, secretly a reptilian shape-changing alien, secretly a satanist, secretly an atheist, secretly the mass-muderer behind 9/11.

Did you know dinosaur bones were invented by a hundred-year conspiracy of scientists in order to trick us into having less faith in the literal Bible?

Did you know that evolution is only a theory and that no-one knows anything at all about pre-humanity?

Did you know alien skulls were found and then found to be made of human DNA and post-mortem diagnosed as belonging to sick children, but that everyone believes they're alien anyways because they have big eye cavities?

Did you know that an american conspiracy of covert satanists murders over twice the US's annual murder count per year and no-one has noticed?

Or how about that jews put a "jew tax" on kosher foods?

I hear the holocaust never happened. Is this true??

Did you know that Gene Ray is proven to be the smartest man alive? The scientists are just too afraid of his intelligence.

Did you know that we can read your personality based on lumps on your head?

Did you know that criminals have special facial features that allow us to spot them before they commit a crime?

Hell, did you know Myspace is a government conspiracy to censor the internet?

Did you know that the government gives radioactive money to people who smoke pot, in order to give them ass pains?

I hear that Jesus manifests his image on the side of pastries.

Sure, people have been spotting Sasquatch for over fifty years. Except the original sightings that popularized the phenomenon were faked.
But all subsequent sightings must be real!

All of these stories, however, are more plausible than the pentagon no-plane theory, since none of them is trying to contradict 100 eyewitnesses and the entire scientific community based on Jack Shit and a Myspace profile.

By the way, of all the conspiracy webistes I have read, how many have claims backed by valid scientific evidence and research?

Zero.

So it's the alien abduction phenomenon again, only in your head.
There a likely a billion utterly insane theories out there, all with the same level of scientific and logical credibility.

Which did you pick and choose to fit your worldview?
Which of equal "merit" did you exclude outright as "too silly"?

Jew tax: Has no evidence, contradicts over a hundred eyewitnesses and is too silly.
Loose Change: Has no evidence, contradicts over a hundred eyewitnesses and I BELIEVE IT ANYWAYS.


People think I'm just acting silly when I invent fake conspiracies like COW PLOY, DANGER MEMO and the reptilians.
The smart ones, however, get the point:
COW PLOY and Loose Change are equally valid beliefs, based on the exact same evidence.

So why don't you believe in COW PLOY if you believe in Loose Change?
 
MiccyNarc said:
OMG! HE must be a SMART GUY! I mean....HE ACTUALLY HAS A MYSPACE WEBSITE! Now I REALLY trust him!

ROFL!
People will do ANYTHING to get their name out there.
You're giving him what he wants:
Attention.
Click to expand...

Never, in the entire hour and a half long video, does the author claim to be an expert. Instead, the author uses the testimony of others, media reports and observations to poke holes in the official reasoning. and I will repeat myself... again. The video is meant to pose questions, prupose possible answers to them, and more importantly, demand the answers from the government.

In my opinion, I think this is the most effective way to get conspiracy theories out to the public. Instead of having someone who claims to be an expert provide shaky evidence, why not use the testimony of others from a moderate perspective? If it is enough to make people question things, than thats an acheivement in and of itself.

That said, I don't agree with a lot of the theories suggested by the author. For example, I strongly doubt that a cruise missile, as suggested, would penetrate that deep into a steel reinforced building, punching neat holes, without exploding and causing extensive internal destruction. I think a guided bunker-buster missile of sorts was used, but thats just me. That part of the video made me question the military knowledge of the author, which I believe is very limited. I also don't agree with some of the suggestions as gold for a motive, that just seems illogical.

That said, there are very obvious holes, imo, in the official story that is brought up not only in the video, but websites across the web. The apparently suicidal maunuver made by HH that hit the Pentagon. The neatly punched holes. The speed and accuracy of the WTC collapse. The on-scene whitnesses, and even the discrepencies noted with the Pentagon in eye whitness accounts. The lack of evidence/seizure of evidence in all scenes, particularly Flight 93.

Now, different websites will attempt different reasonings for these holes in the official story, and some will just flat-out debunk them as political propoganda, etc. etc.

And yes, you are correct that many conspiracy theorists will simply use their theories to become popular, sell things or whatever the case may be. I don't feel that is the case with this video, since many people don't even know about it and even people who see the video forget about the author and forget about IT within the next week or so... sad but true.

But, whatever, I guess this sort of thing doesn't float well here.
 
lol lol utter failure.

Here is a hole in the evidence: There is no proof that Static isn't mentally handicapped.
Therefore, the theory that Static is absolutely retarded is equally valid as the official version of events he presents (not being retarded).

So, since he's already failed, let's spend the rest of the thread asking important questions.
I'll start:

Is Static more or less retarded than Rain Man?

I say more so because, although he is terrified of fire alarms, Rain Man would have no trouble counting the hundred eyewitnesses and scientists who confirm everything.

What do you think?
 
Ok! i need just one question answered!

HOW THE F*** DO YOU MELT HIGH GRADE STEEL WITH JET FUEL!!!???!?!


Just please answer this and i will belive you, that the whole thing was actually a terrorist atack!


ANSWER THIS F****** QUESTION!




edit: i'll make it easyer for you "HOW THE F*** DO YOU MELT ANY KIND OF STEEL WITH JET FUEL!!!???"
 
jverne said:
i'll make it easyer for you "HOW THE F*** DO YOU MELT ANY KIND OF STEEL WITH JET FUEL!!!???"
Click to expand...
A possible explanation for this particular theory is the clumsiness of the English language via the word "melt". The word brings to mind an ice cube or popsicle and the dramatic change in matter when it "melts". Theorists claim that "Jet fuel cannot melt steel" and it is this distortion of fact that makes a 9/11 conspiracy of this order possible...

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F. This is not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).

However the overwhelming majority of experts agree that for the WTC towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to "melt", they just had to lose some of their structural strength, and that required exposure to much less heat.

"I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including a large quantity of rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
Click to expand...
sixchar
 
Ikerous said:
sixchar
Click to expand...



hehe...i know how steel performs under diffrent temperatures, i study structural engeniring!

it is a big diffrence between molten steel or bent steel! as far as i can tell in the official statment there was melted steel...or am i wrong? if there is molten steel then the writers of the report are complete retards!

so here's another simple question...what is written in the OFFICAL report!?

if it's warped or bent steel then there is no problem, but if it is melted then there is something wrong!

my question was orriginaly how to melt steel with jet fuel, nothing else! because there are few things that melt steel and none of them is jet fuel!

hehe..***gs and chairs! what were they made of PURE CARBON?! :rolleyes:




edit: emm sorry but the melting point of steel is 2500°F not 1800, which is another big difference! hah...hope that engineer doesn't think that steel melts at that temperature, otherwise he's an idiot!

can't you see...there is no theoretical possibility to melt steel with jet fuel (kerosine)!! ok...there is on theory but you'd need a oil refinery plant in the plane or in the wtc!


edit#2: clumse me...the 2500F is for soft steel, special alloyed steel used in high buildings melts around 2912F!!!
 
Yea.. ionno wtf im talking about. I was just c/ping.
But afaik, jet fuel wont melt steel.

So what am i to believe?
Either A, that the government is capable of making mistakes and put "melt" instead of "got bendy"
or B, aliens did it.
 
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