You were lied to.

[DeusExMachina]

Aliens, TBH IMO.

 

[MiccyNarc]

"And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent."

Learn to read.

It never said steel melts at 1800.
And if the steel is only at 10% strength, I doubt it will be holding up a building.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

i study structural engeniring!

God help us all.
Or at least those who enter whatever building you end up making.
If you can't read text or note that losing 90% of the strength in multiple support beams might be a bad thing, then you should probably switch majors.

 

[Yuri]

COW PLOY




*cough*

 

[jverne]

who said it melted at 1800F? i surley did not!

so now, is it melted steel or bent written in the report? that would be a hell of a mistake to make!

hey mech what do you study..."the art of making pointless and unargumented statments"! this is verry popular nowdays, because facts are boring, lets just make up things and talk! yay

 

[Cole]

edit: emm sorry but the melting point of steel is 2500°F not 1800, which is another big difference! hah

who said it melted at 1800F? i surley did not!

Are you an idiot?
He never claimed you said it, he claimed that you need to learn to read because the article never claimed it melted at 1800 which you claimed it did so he pointed out that it is down to 10% of it's strength at 1800 which you missread as the article stating that was it's melting point.


Who the **** cares what took the towers down? The fact is they went down. If it be aliens, planes, bombs, WHO THE **** CARES? The planes ****ing hit and we attacked middle eastern nations. Stop talking about the god damn past and look at what the hell is going on right now.

 

[jverne]

i read the thing and i agree with it! i just want to know how to melt steel with jet fuel, because apparently in the official report it is written that they have melted...prove me wrong and i'll shut up!

so who wrote the report if it's written melted not bent, ceartenly not an engieneer! with that i have a problem, nothing else!

 

[clarky003]

I agree, I dont really like the idea either it does sound insane, but on the other hand when you read some of the reports that are supposedly written by proffessionals there are some crazy assumptions that are just as unlikely as some of the conspiracy ideas surrounding the events.

this for instance from NIST.

mention of fireball in the lobby and basement

Then when you look at the diagram in conjunction with these comments refering to the fireball entering 'shafts' you realise there is only one maintenance 'shaft' that the fireball could go down to get to the lobby and basement areas, all the main shafts are hermetically sealed.


diagram they used.


The impact was on the other side of the building to the maintenance shaft, so what's the likelyhood that the fireball had enough energy to travel to the shaft then all the way down to the ground floors and still have enough umpf to travel through the whole lower lobby and basement area burning people, blowing out the windows on the whole floor, and stripping tiles off the walls.

It's a fair point on the likelyhood of this occuring, the major problem is they have assumed an impossible event of the fireball going down the main elevator shafts to the lobby and basement, and an extremely unlikely event in the case of the one maintenance shaft without mentioning why.

 

[Solaris]

Who the **** cares what took the towers down? The fact is they went down. If it be aliens, planes, bombs, WHO THE **** CARES? The planes ****ing hit and we attacked middle eastern nations. Stop talking about the god damn past and look at what the hell is going on right now.

Who the f**k cares who murdered that guy, lets fire all detectives becuase the dead are already dead.


/Sarcasm.

 

[jverne]

I agre with you both clarky and solaris! You can't make statments in an official report that are untrue (molten or bent metal->big difference) or vaugely or non explained (fireball)!
Let me tell you, that engieneers ussualy don't use "could be; possibly; i think; most likely; i assume,...", that's detective work and i'm not going to listen to a detective how fireballs travel trough narow spaces, or how steel melts!


thing is, that facts say it was not the planes who brought it down, peoples assumption on the contrary do, as you can see nobody cares about facts (but that's another story)!


and solaris is also right! we should care for the 3000 murdered, because if not many more will die!

and Minerel...you seem to do a fine job solving current problems!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

all the main shafts are hermetically sealed.

Dude, Clarky, everyone knows the central shaft was hollow, and not "hermetically sealed".

Do you even know what hermetically sealed means?
It means airtight.
The central shaft was not airtight.

http://www.ussartf.org/images/wtc_collapse3.gif

Way to base your entire conspiracy claim on a small .jpeg
side view sketch of the towers and not actual information about its 3-D structure.

Fail.

I don't think I can emphasize enough how much of a failure you are in this respect, Clarky.
Clarky, you just based an admittedly insane conspiracy theory entirely off of a misinterpretation of a jpeg image.
Remember this moment, because it's the story of your life.

(Well, there's a one-pixel black line here, so that means the Jeep was HERMETICALLY sealed!!! I am Clarky! LOL)

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Also, JVerne:

how to melt steel with jet fuel, because apparently in the official report it is written that they have melted...prove me wrong and i'll shut up!

It doesn't say ANYWHERE in the actual report that the steel melted.

Here is the link:
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1CollapseofTowers.pdf

Searched the entire document for "melt".
I found this one result:

Structural steel does not need to melt to lose strength. Their melting points are about 1600 [degrees celcius.]

You are basing your conspiracy theory off of a document that does not exist.
Your claims are fueled entirely by your own proven ignorance of the document you are refuting.

I can't emphasize enough the massive failure of pretending the official report said steel melted.
That's called a straw man argument, and it is a massive failure.
There is no other term for it.

FAIL.

You can start shutting up now.

 

[JNightshade]

Do I fail too?

 

[Yuri]

I love how there are a few people who are just so into conspiracy shit that are constantly defending their right to be morons (clarky and zruken), and the only other people who defend them are ignoramuses that know nothing about the subject at all (Charlie Sheen and jverne).

It doesn't matter how many times you prove to these people that they are wrong. They will just keep on defending their ignorance because its so cool to think that its a conspiracy. Grow up, eh?

 

[jverne]

Also, JVerne:


It doesn't say ANYWHERE in the actual report that the steel melted.

Here is the link:
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1CollapseofTowers.pdf

Searched the entire document for "melt".
I found this one result:



You are basing your conspiracy theory off of a document that does not exist.
Your claims are fueled entirely by your own proven ignorance of the document you are refuting.

I can't emphasize enough the massive failure of pretending the official report said steel melted.
That's called a straw man argument, and it is a massive failure.
There is no other term for it.

FAIL.

You can start shutting up now.

Fair enough! if this document is genuine...no melted has been found!
My only goal was to correct what has been said otherwise!
I will now no longer pursue the bombing plot!

For the record...mech if you think you pwned me think again, you haven't pwned anything...it was never a competiton...i repeat, i only wanted to see what is written in the document...from a pure technical point of view!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If you agree with any of the 9/11 claims made by Clarky, JVerne, Pauly, ZRYUKEN, STATIC, CHARLIE SHEEN or others in the Lose Changed team, then yes.

Otherwise, unlike those listed, you are proven not to be an idiot! Hooray!

Also, you get bonus anti-fail points for supporting COW PLOY.

 

[Yuri]

Yelling isn't going to make you seem any more intelligent, nor credible.

 

[jverne]

wtf. whose yelling?


edit: i think i was never too clear! i didn't agree with any thing except the melting steel "fact"! and no i wasn't agreeing with clarky on the air duct fireball, all i said was that i agree with the "don't write unargumented claims" like the writters of the report "supposedly" made!

i thought that the writers said the steel has melted using jet fuel...but apparently they haven't! case closed!






P.S. i dont belive in other arguments, because all of them are assumptions.

 

[clarky003]

I don't think I can emphasize enough how much of a failure you are in this respect, Clarky.
Clarky, you just based an admittedly insane conspiracy theory entirely off of a misinterpretation of a jpeg image.
Remember this moment, because it's the story of your life.

lol at you mech and your wtf rants, you dont even know me, all you know is I like discussing the subject. The elevator shafts in question themselves were hermetically sealed and I do know what that means you condescending nit, your acting like a jackass enuff said, like its some competition to you.. when all im doing is making some points that show that there is no physical evidence that completely sets the origional explaination as concrete, they didnt mention how it had enough energy to reach the basement and bottom levels, they havn't truely explained any of it, we are simply suppposed to believe that this fireball existed barrelling down the shafts despite the lack of any confirmation that it origionated from the highest levels of the building, what is written is an omission.

what are you .. 11? seriously grow up, and think about what you write before trying to stereotype people, I chat about this occasionally because its interesting subject matter considering silverstein's comments on WTC7 and I like to hear other peoples views, but when you totally denie or ignore everything including the possibility of molten steel and anything contradictory under the sun Id think its fair to say your completely satisfied with the investigation as it stands, and then if you are why not gtfo of the thread and stop trolling it with your usual "you cant question the official events, I must yell at you, I win stfu" why not just let people talk about it, it doesnt harm anyone if the official events are true then there is nothing to worry about or shout about, its harmless, as everyone says who cares anyway.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

In other words, I am totally right and that hurts your feelings.

I have conclusively proven that you based at least one argument entirely on ignorance concerning a single misinterpreted .jpeg.

So, is that more or less immature than calling a .jpeg hermetic without knowing what hermetic means?

This isn't a competition. This is about honouring the dead.
Simply put, you are a disgrace. You are basically lying to everyone here, in their names.
How many people have you swayed into taking Al Queda off the hook, and based on what?

-Scientists tell us a plane crash causes fire.

-Clarky tells us that the plane crash caused fire and also 200 000 invisible thermite bombs destroyed all the supports and a third mystery fireball bomb was detonated in the elevators near lobby for no reason and did no major damage.

And yet you claim the scientists have no proof.
Of course, you also said the .jpeg was hermetic, so we all know just how brilliant your science claims are.

OCCAM'S RAZOR.
The more elaborate your claims, the more proof you need.

You claim to be all sciencey and a freedom fighter, yet you keep pretending this logical fallacy doesn't exist, just throwing out the claim "bombs are possible! bombs are possible!"

Intentionally ignoring a major logical fallicy is inexcusable.
That is the action of either a liar or an idiot.
Either way, it is a failure.

You are a failure.

Your failure is quantifiable and inexcusable, and persisting in your claims with full knowledge of this fallacy makes you a liar.





John Wilkes Boothe didn't shoot Lincon. Actually, Lincon was protected by special bulletproof materals in his hat.
But, an invisible gun inside the hat shot him anyways at the exact same time!!!

Historians have never addressed the possibility of the invisible second gun/ invisible bulletproof hat theory.

The truth is out there, Clarky!

I will give you 100 dollars to disprove the INVISIBLE LINCON GUN.
I will give you 1000 dollars to disprove DANGER MEMO.
Also, I will give you 10 000 dollars to prove COW PLOY is more fallacious than your nonsense.

 

[clarky003]

oh ffs, you can invok occams razor on the principal that 3 highrise steel buildings managed to collapse faster than freefall into their own footprint in one day, even more amazing circumstances where the majority of evidence was illegally destroyed by the authorities before it could go into metallurgical analysis. The first 3 steel buildings in history to be brought down by fire in one day and then silversteins comment.. you have to be stupid not to want be more thorough and ask more questions.

 

[Solaris]

Whats so amazing about Silversteen pulling building seven anyway?

 

[clarky003]

Controlled demolisions on large steel structures take weeks of planning, if what he said is true it would of needed to of been planned far in advance of the events that took place, some say he meant they needed to pull the fire fighters out, his entire interview was perfectly in context and he clearly says it in the context of having the building pulled, also saying it was unrecoverable.

 

[Solaris]

Yes I've seen the video, that's actually quite intresting. Someone should link the video to here.

 

[jverne]

Whats so amazing about Silversteen pulling building seven anyway?

WARNING! i am not stepping in the debate, i'm just going to explain solaris the Silversteen thing.




so: as far as i know...Silversteen said he was going to pull the building because of some fire...but at the same time the official report said the internal fires caused it to collapse.


that is all i know...and i did not make any statment...

"the question is why two diffrent explanations?"

i hope i explained it to you solaris. no pun intendet

 

[Solaris]

WARNING! i am not stepping in the debate, i'm just going to explain solaris the Silversteen thing.




so: as far as i know...Silversteen said he was going to pull the building because of some fire...but at the same time the official report said the internal fires caused it to collapse.


that is all i know...and i did not make any statment...

"the question is why two diffrent explanations?"

i hope i explained it to you solaris. no pun intendet

Strange, the theorist say that building seven is the key to it all. It does seem strange. I mean no plane hit building seven, just fire surely firealone wouldnt do it, but I don't know, should investigate further...

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The Silverstien demolition is the single most absolutely retarded conspiracy claim ever made.

Yeah, the mastermind behind the whole thing just casually admitted everything on tape.

BULLSHIT!

The Larry Silverstein quote:
"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." [81]

On September 9, 2005, Dara McQuillan spokesperson for Silverstein Properties Inc., declared:

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building. Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001." [82]

He was telling the fire fighters to leave, Clarky. There were no bombs.
Not only that, but I have already pointed out your error here at least three times previously.
Yet you continue to misquote this guy over and over and over and over.
You are a liar.

faster than freefall

You have never, ever ever, ever, ever, produced anything even close to a justification concerning this claim.
You just pulled it out of thin air.
You are a liar.

The first 3 steel buildings in history to be brought down by fire

Whoopidy shit, Clarky.
"It never happened before thereofre it could never happen."

Brilliant.

Hey, you know what?
No-one has ever demolished a building using invisible thermite bombs.

You are a liar.

Stop lying to us.

I will give you 10 000 dollars to prove me wrong, via the COW PLOY contest.

Why can't you do that? It is easy.

You are such a failure though, that you cannot defeat COW PLOY.

You are such a failure.
You fail at logic, you fail at science.
You fail at life.

Prove you aren't a failure by disproving COW PLOY, and you win 10 000 dollars.
Otherwise, you are a massive idiot failure.

 

[Yuri]

I am unusually brash and mean when "debating" with people on this issue, so I like to throw this out there once and a while:

It greatly offends me that you people throw your baseless bullshit accusations into the faces of thousands of dead Americans... and tens of thousands of their close relations. None of what you say has ever made sense, and the only reason people say it is to get attention, to make money, and to get people to think you're "cool" and "rebellious." All of you are stubborn and ignorant, and when you convince others through using lies, you are personally slapping the victims in their face.

The "faster than freefall" clarky comment just reiternates how you people just throw around bullshit when called on a specific debate, about something completely unrelated.

Seriously, go f*ck yourselves. Assholes.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Yeah, the faster than freefall stuff is bullshit.
It popped into Clarky's head while he was masturbating to amputee pornography.

See what I just did there?
I just wrote out a libelous claim based on nothing at all.

Whenever Clarky mentions the "falling faster than freefall", that is his codeword for said pornography.
Just like how "pull" could only mean demolitions using invisible bombs.

Occam's Razor cockslaps Clarky.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Oooooh so that's Loose Change. I thought Mecha had made it up.

He's really good at fooling people, you know.

 

[Yuri]

There he goes not making any goddamn sense again.

You know what is really funny? People are profiting off of marketing lies and generally being scumbags. You have to buy Loose Change or rent it. If you are making a "statement" to the public, wouldn't you want it to be free? Of course not, you're a dishonorable scumbag liar who wants to profit off of ignorant and stubborn conspiracy theorists.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

There he goes not making any goddamn sense again.

blahblah personal emotions overriding logic.

Sense? Ofcourse it doesn't make sense to you. You aren't "in".

I've never heard of this video til now. Mecha says to me "blah blah Loose Change" and I'm like "wtf is loose change" and he's like "it's this one video blah whatever conspiracy theorists" and then I clicked this thread for the first time and there it was, and here he is.

Voila, sense.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It was the topic of every conspiracy thread you have posted in so far, and yet you never watched it.
It is the source of all your 9/11 claims, and yet you never watched it.

Also, I am going to have to ask that you not call me an asshat in your sig.

COW PLOY proves that I am not an asshat.
Even you admit COW PLOY is more sensible than you are.


Speaking of letting your emotions take over your thoughts, you irrationally dismissed 10 000 dollars for no reason - I suspect because you are afraid of truth.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

It was the topic of every conspiracy thread you have posted in so far, and yet you never watched it.

I thought it was stupid.

Someone posted it on another forum but I just ignored it, mostly because it wouldn't load more than 15 minutes into it, and that 15 minutes was enough for me to think it was stupid and that it was worth ignoring.

As I said the first thing that comes to mind when I read "loose change" is that I should check my pockets before doing laundry.

But I reduntantly reiterate again repeatedly that I do not fall into the category of people being generalized into these purportedly subhuman conspiracy theorists or it's equally blind gung-ho anti-government supporters.

---

To the stuff you edited in after I posted, most of it is lies and I do not feel compelled to dignify it with response other than I choose to ignore it because you are a silly baboon.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You are on record refusing to accept 10 000 dollars in exchange for one sensible point.
You refuse to prove yourself more sensible than COW PLOY.

You PM'd me saying that burning fuel going down the central shaft was impossible.
It is by all accounts not impossible, as I have proven in this thread.
The only other explanation is an invisible bomb inside the lobby that made a fireball.

You deny the bombs, therefore the fireball was impossible?
Inventing a magic fireball is a lie.

Stop lying to everyone immediately!

 

[Javert]

I think we're gonna need a 9/11 conspiracy theories sub-forum now. ^^

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

You are on record refusing to accept 10 000 dollars in exchange for one sensible point.
You refuse to prove yourself more sensible than COW PLOY.

You PM'd me saying that burning fuel going down the central shaft was impossible.
It is by all accounts not impossible, as I have proven in this thread.

Stop lying to everyone immediately.

You are misinterpreting what I showed you, outright lying, and a silly baboon.

Cow Ploy has proved these 3 statements conclusively.

You don't have 10,000 dollars, and even if you did, have no intent of giving it away because that would be a sign of utter insanity.

You are an example of someone in desperate need of anti psychotic medication.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Prove that I am psychotic, and you get 10 000 dollars.
Why do you keep refusing?
Win the cash, and you will see it is quite real.

You claim that the lobby explosion was not caused by the plane or by any bombs.

What did cause it then?

Saying the fireball was caused spontaneously, or by magic bombs, is certainly far more crazy than my efforts to help you off this intellectual ledge.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Prove that I am psychotic, and you get 10 000 dollars.
Why do you keep refusing?
Win the cash, and you will see it is quite real.

Show me the cash is real, and I will win it.

You claim that the lobby explosion was not caused by the plane or by any bombs.

This is a willful misinterpretation you have made up to discredit me by relying on the ignorance of others.

What did cause it then?.

Hell if I know. I just know the layout of the elevator shafts. There was an explosion resulting in documented fatalities at the ground floor lobby. Using simple math and logic I showed you how it is highly improbable enough jet fuel could have caused it. The interpretation is then left to you.

Saying the fireball was caused spontaneously, or by magic bombs, is certainly far more crazy than my efforts to help you off this intellectual ledge.

There's no such thing as magic bombs. You coined that term and concluded one needs 2 tons of them to implode a WTC tower.

Your "efforts", are nothing but personal attacks and misinformation.

I on the other hand state a few opinions, and the Spanish Inquisition is set upon me.

 

[Captain M4d]

You all have been lied to! This forum is acutally being run by the government. You're all being watched!