Your View on Pirating

[Absinthe]

However, am I responcable to perpetuate capitalism by being a consumer? I don't think so, whilst the result of me pirating a game made by EA might result in staff layoffs, Capitalism should be blamed for this, not me.

Yes, capitalism should be blamed because you practice thievery.

...

Really, if you're honest with your intentions, you should simply not buy the products. But you supporting the illegal acquisition of these products just smacks of hypocrisy.

 

[Solaris]

Yes, capitalism should be blamed because you practice thievery.

...

Really, if you're honest with your intentions, you should simply not buy the products. But you supporting the illegal acquisition of these products just smacks of hypocrisy.

Why does it?

 

[Absinthe]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Buckle down and be willing to forfeit things you are unwilling to acquire normally out of principle. Otherwise you're just being cheap. Especially when it comes to things like software. You don't need software to survive.

 

[Asus]

If there was not copyright then you could get the latest song or movie by either buying it or downloading it legally. But since copyright was made, if the holder does not give you the right to use his stuff...you must buy the work to be following the laws. I see the bigger moral issue as following laws. Not taking and using information and ideas.

Without copyright the consumer gets the best deal and it seems it would be hardest on creators since anyone can take that idea and make their own work from it. But today I see corporations wanting to extend copyright more and more and it's already really long. (Didn't music copyright get reviewed recently in the UK but it was not increased from 50 years which it is today? I'm not sure.) Is it that people are lashing out against copyright as it gets longer or what? Or are they just being cheap? Or do they just want to go against the law and this one is easy to do and not get caught?

(I agree with having a copyright but not for very many years. A lot shorter than it currently is. But in general I don't pirate. I buy what I want and don't buy and go without for what I don't want.)

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Abandonware effectively is anything that developers and publishers stop selling at retail. Obviously they don't want to make money out of that title otherwise it would be accessable. I don't care what the lisence agreement says, if they don't want to make money out of it, then they should allow free accessable distribution of the product on the Internet.

I can only think of one active developer who are doing this; Massive Entertainment. They are freely distributing their first game, Ground Control, for free on download from their site. Why? Because they know despite selling it in retail in the Bargain Bin section, the money made from those sales will be negligable, because a sum of that 5 pounds will be distributed between the developer, publisher and retailer.

However, this free download has another purpose, to market themselves and to promote their work and gain support for upcoming releases.

 

[tehsolace]

The sad part is many popular applications owe most of their popularity and brand identity to the pirated copies.

Take Photoshop for example. Costing thousands of dollars, I doubt it would have been made the industry standard it is today if all their versions weren't pirated by young (and broke) internet users.

 

[CyberPitz]

I only do it to either play a game to test it....or if I can't afford it, but plan on buying it later for multiplayer purposes.

But I download every song unless it's a band that I feel deserves the music which matches my tastes.

 

[Solaris]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Buckle down and be willing to forfeit things you are unwilling to acquire normally out of principle. Otherwise you're just being cheap. Especially when it comes to things like software. You don't need software to survive.

I really don't understand how that rebuts what I posted.

 

[Absinthe]

It means you're a cheapskate. If you don't want to participate in a capitalist society, then go elsewhere. You're just reaping the benefits of a system you don't want anything to do with and you're trying to justify this as something noble. You're a leech.

I pirate things, but I don't try to rationalize my behavior. I am being selfish.

 

[Solaris]

It means you're a cheapskate. If you don't want to participate in a capitalist society, then go elsewhere. You're just reaping the benefits of a system you don't want anything to do with and you're trying to justify this as something noble. You're a leech.

I pirate things, but I don't try to rationalize my behavior. I am being selfish.

Yes, robbing from a store would be out of self interest, it wouldn't be a good act, but it wouldn't be morally wrong either. That is what I am arguing.

 

[PvtRyan]

Software = product of capitalism

You don't like capitalism but you do want the software? Smells like hypocrisy to me.

 

[Solaris]

Software = product of capitalism

You don't like capitalism but you do want the software? Smells like hypocrisy to me.

Not really, food is a product of capitalism but I must eat it.

 

[PvtRyan]

Not really, food is a product of capitalism but I must eat it.

So you MUST use Windows? There are no alternatives? If you were a real socialist and not a hypocrite you would use Linux. Besides, software is a luxury, if you had principles you would avoid it if it was produced by a system you didn't agree with.

 

[brink's]

I read a very interesting article today that stated that 06 generated the lowest capital for the music industry in a decade. Which i found to be quite odd considering that in 96 pirating music( through the internet) was a non issue. Perhaps the music industry is getting too comfortable using pirating as a scapegoat that they are ignoring the issue that the majority of music they are pushing is ****ing horrible. Don't get me wrong dling is a big problem for them, but at this point does anybody honestly think it can be helped? Why don't they focus on giving people a reason to buy music in the first place.

The article also pointed out that 40+year olds buy more albums a year then 10-30ish, which makes you wonder why they waste so many resources trying to appeal to that demo graph to begin with.

 

[Gray Fox]

I would think that proves there is a correlation between the rise in piracy and the fall in sales of music.

 

[HunterSeeker]

I too think capitalism is a corrupt system. That does not mean I get the right (morally or legally) to steal or whatever, when I live in it I have to participate in it. I may not like it but thats why I want to change it.

And frankly, just becouse you are rich does not mean you are evil. Just becouse a corrupt system benifts you does not mean you are corrupt, and as long as the system is in place any good person will live by its rules ESPECIALLY since it does not remove your power to change it!

 

[brink's]

I would think that proves there is a correlation between the rise in piracy and the fall in sales of music.

I agree, i just found it odd that 96 had a worse year considering piracy wasn't even an issue.

 

[Gray Fox]

Oh ok, **** I misunderstood.

 

[Laivasse]

I would think that proves there is a correlation between the rise in piracy and the fall in sales of music.

That's not the case though. In the case of the British Phonographic Industry, they had record album sales for 2004 and 2005 (maybe it was '03 and '04...I forget). File sharing was just as prevalent then. In fact I haven't yet checked the UK figures for 2006 - it's entirely possible that sales were low in the states but the BPI broke another record. There really is no proof, or even sign, that file sharing is hurting the music industry.

Edit:
Just double checked and the BPI are doing even better than I suggested. 2003, 2004 and 2005 were ALL record breaking years for album sales. The info for 2006 is a bit hazier but the album sales for the first quarter, at least, appear to have also been record breaking.
Other sources:
http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=news/press/news_content_file_966.shtml
http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=news/press/news_content_file_1089.shtml

In the first half of 1997, 43.7m CD albums were sold, but sales of CD albums almost reached 58 million (57.9m) in the first half of 2007 - an increase of 32% in 10 years.

So let this be an end to the bs about mp3 trading damaging album sales.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I would think that proves there is a correlation between the rise in piracy and the fall in sales of music.

Heh, I actually did an article assignment for Microecon class yesterday on this. At the end I was asked how an economist would look to fix this issue and I said some bs like "Limit amount of digital music distributed (to increase CD sales), however this may inadvertently cause a rise in piracy as well. Otherwise the governemnt should continue cracking down on the big pirates." And this was all based off the article I read.

 

[-Psy-]

Piracy is good for oneself in certain situations. I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds for 3dsMAX or Photoshop...

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Stuff I would never buy is what I download. Old ass arguement that I stick with

 

[Solaris]

So you MUST use Windows? There are no alternatives? If you were a real socialist and not a hypocrite you would use Linux. Besides, software is a luxury, if you had principles you would avoid it if it was produced by a system you didn't agree with.

Windows or an equivalent would be produced under a socialist system.

 

[brink's]

Their marketing and business practices certainly wouldn't, you can't argue that. Plus, most programs are glitchy as hell in a system that is very competative, I would hate to you use an OS that had absolutely no competition.

 

[PvtRyan]

Windows or an equivalent would be produced under a socialist system.

So? What's your point? You say it's alright to steal from Microsoft because they're a big company. Which means you think it's OK to use a product that's a result from capitalism. You can't condemn a system and still use its products.

 

[ríomhaire]

I only download abandonware and the odd GBA game.

Edit:
I also have photoshop illegally :shh:

 

[Solaris]

So? What's your point? You say it's alright to steal from Microsoft because they're a big company. Which means you think it's OK to use a product that's a result from capitalism. You can't condemn a system and still use its products.

Of course you can, I can say, a restaurant is crap and still eat their becuase thats where my company parties are.

 

[Dog--]

Oh yea, in addition to my first post on page 1 - I don't think every game should be pirated, good games shouldn't be pirated, and SHOULD be bought.

Half-Life 2, for example. I bought it and was instantly pestered by friends to burn it for them, I must have turned down $200 in total (from different people), and said "It's a damn good game, go buy it. It's worth it." Same thing happened with Metal Gear Solid and Snake Eater, and Shadow of the Colossus, and a few others. Although if it's, say, Halo 1 or 2, I'll happily burn it for someone.

If everyone did that, it'd make companies lose money on shit games, and think "is this really good enough?" before releasing it. Although, you can't have good without bad, and fan-boys would probably buy Halo, and it'd continue it's shit reign, anyways.


Speaking of Microsoft - they use pirated material, themselves. There was a thread on it not too long ago.

 

[Beerdude26]

I use pirated material for personal use or trivial use (e.g. a sound mixing program that I use once and then delete it)

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, robbing from a store would be out of self interest, it wouldn't be a good act, but it wouldn't be morally wrong either. That is what I am arguing.

You are not starving. You are not a beggar. You have money. You are living well. You can easily cough up the dough to afford you living necessities and even a fair few luxuries on the side. You have no business trying to justify stealing from a company that operates on capitalist principles in a capitalist society.

Food is not inherently capitalist, nor is software. Since this is the case, maybe you should start putting your money where your mouth is and deriving these things from a commune somewhere instead self-righteously robbing people.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Of course you can, I can say, a restaurant is crap and still eat their becuase thats where my company parties are.

Ironic.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Solaris]

You are not starving. You are not a beggar. You have money. You are living well. You can easily cough up the dough to afford you living necessities and even a fair few luxuries on the side. You have no business trying to justify stealing from a company that operates on capitalist principles in a capitalist society.

Food is not inherently capitalist, nor is software. Since this is the case, maybe you should start putting your money where your mouth is and deriving these things from a commune somewhere instead self-righteously robbing people.

Perhaps I should overthrow the state yes, but that is not the issue; what I'm saying is that stealing from a large company is not immoral.

 

[Absinthe]

But it is. They have divested time, money, and energy into creating a product that they expect to be paid for. Not just big execs, but everybody below. They expect this under a system that has worked well for years. You, however, actively ignore the system and concepts of equitable exchange so that you can acquire their products for free with nothing to exchange on your end, even though almost everybody else manages to do this fine. The severity of the damages they suffer are irrelevant. You have cheated.

You'd have a case if you were stealing for your own survival. But you aren't. You want the big, capitalist benefits with none of the sacrifice. Until Microsoft or any other corporate giant that provides popular products switches to a socialist business model, your theft is an immoral act.

 

[Kyorisu]

Ironic.

-Angry Lawyer

We all have to earn money somehow.

 

[Solaris]

But it is. They have divested time, money, and energy into creating a product that they expect to be paid for. Not just big execs, but everybody below. They expect this under a system that has worked well for years. You, however, actively ignore the system and concepts of equitable exchange so that you can acquire their products for free with nothing to exchange on your end, even though almost everybody else manages to do this fine. The severity of the damages they suffer are irrelevant. You have cheated.

You'd have a case if you were stealing for your own survival. But you aren't. You want the big, capitalist benefits with none of the sacrifice. Until Microsoft or any other corporate giant that provides popular products switches to a socialist business model, your theft is an immoral act.

A pair of jeans gets onto the shevles in your average superstore through the following process:

Company buys material
Kids make jeans in sweat shop
Company pays to transport goods
People are paid to put it on shelves

The jeans are the result of the labour of the workers, yet the profits will go to the execs who own the company, so whether I steal the jeans or not, the rightful benefactors of the profits from the jeans would still get cheated because of capitalism.

So when I, or anyone else, steals a product from a multi-national store, it only hurt people who have no right to be benefiting from the sale anyway.

I do not steal, I've never stolen anything except downloading music, but I have nothing against people who do.

 

[Llama]

Pirating software, music and films is different from stealing clothing, or a good that is produced in a similar way. No one works in a sweatshop to make a piece of software. So when you pirate that, you hurt people in the company, more precisely the people that suffer due to cut-backs.
You don't hurt execs, you hurt the normal people.

 

[Solaris]

Pirating software, music and films is different from stealing clothing, or a good that is produced in a similar way. No one works in a sweatshop to make a piece of software. So when you pirate that, you hurt people in the company, more precisely the people that suffer due to cut-backs.
You don't hurt execs, you hurt the normal people.

Well then I hurt normal people who are fired because their shop is closed because no-one went there, by your logic you are responsible for all the people fired because you didn't shop at their stores. It is not my responsibility to perpetuate capitalism.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Well then I hurt normal people who are fired because their shop is closed because no-one went there, by your logic you are responsible for all the people fired because you didn't shop at their stores. It is not my responsibility to perpetuate capitalism.

The difference is that you do not use the store, with piracy you still use their product. You eat the cake and keep it to.

 

[Absinthe]

Which goes back to my original point: Being a cheapskate. You're a very poor marxist.

 

[Solaris]

Why?
I'm not a cheapskate, I'm a very good consumer, I work all weekend and then spend the money straight away on shit I don't want or need. Consumerism sucks. Corporations suck and I couldn't give a **** what happens to them.