Your views on Steam

[Wesisapie]

Steam is good for newbies. No offence, really.
The rest of us will stick to All-Seeing eye and http downloads for patches.

Unless "they" force us to use steam. And i have no huge problem with steam, just that it's slower than doing everything manually, and it is always very secretive in what it's doing, so you can't tell if it's going or not.

 

[MrD]

ps. these are my views, which I was asked for ... so don't give me that "well if you don't like it just stfu" crap

Why does it "suck"?

1) It sits in the background eating resources - what is wrong with firing it up when you actually want to use it?

2) It is the most ugly thing I have ever seen. Skins? well this just means they have to spend time implementing a skin interface and fixing bugs in that, which they should really be spending fixing number 3 & 4 ... the Windows controls are there for a reason, they may not be the best looking but they have been tried and tested over a great number of years ... I wish these things would stop re-inventing the bloody wheel.

3) It is full of bugs. Sometimes I would get no progress bar, so I had no idea how long it would take to finish the video. Othertimes clicking the launch button wouldn't work.

4) In general it just seemed to hog my broadband bandwidth for no apparent reason, downloading stuff that I hadn't asked it to.

5) Most importantly it has no useful purpose, which is the thing that really pisses me off about having to have it ...

-------------------------------------------

Game Installer - traditionally I can browse to the website, click "download patch v1.xxx" and click "Save to disk". I then have a copy of the patch which I can transfer when I reformat etc.

Game Launcher - wow!!! I mean thats amazing, its not like Windows hasn't been able to lauch games for like the last ALL OF ITS LIFETIME - again reinventing wheels. With the Windows START menu I can set-up a keyboard shortcut, can steam do this??? - no reinvent the wheel and then make it crapper.

Frontend - okay, one useful thing is the in-game ability of this stuff.

Content Delivery - ha!, well yes... but who is providing the bandwidth for Steam?? why don't they just provide a webpage instead ?! ie. rather than forcing people to download extra megabytes in the form of Steam, and then downloading the same content in a shit unfriendly UI? more reinvention of the wheel.. people are used to using the internet, don't make them go up another learning curve to do the same thing a different way.

Marketplace - this could work. Though I don't see how it is that different from places like www.regnow.com which allow small software engineers like myself to charge for things.

Product Promotion - well i might have guessed it comes back to advertisting. I am strongly against what I call obtrusive advertising... If I want a bloody loan then I'll go look for one, I don't want it thrust in my face while I'm watching TV, junk letters, junk e-mail, fax, or icons appearing on my desktop. This stuff has to stop, or at least be opt-in. Most of the time the advertised stuff is crappest version of the thing being advertised. Good stuff would sell by word-of-mouth.

Digital Rights Management - LOL! I laugh so hard when I see this stuff. There is no such thing, there will always be cracks. And yes, maybe Steam can encrypt stuff, whatever... eventually it needs to be unencrypted for the people to play it, so that is where the hackors will get their crack from. Don't compare this to the video releases - there was a fundamental difference... the videos were not released yet (thus nothing to crack). You may be able to stop people authenticating to general servers, but you can't stop piracy because it will still be possible to crack the server, and set-up a private one.

Anti Cheat - umm, maybe though surely you could instead install the cheat into DirectX?? make the walls see-through and how could they tell that?

again, just my views which i was asked for

 

[Gunner]

Actually there is download moniter included with Steam so you know what it's doing and how much bandwidth it's eating up. And I'm sorry but ASE has the poorest GUI and isn't user friendly at all.

 

[Wesisapie]

So it isn't all pretty, i don't care about how ASE looks. It isn't user friendly you say? Like i said, if you're a newbie, stick with Steam.
ASE is far more powerful, faster, and all around better.
Steam is all simple and featureless, but easy to use. I would prefer to put in the time and get a better product personally, even though it only takes about 2 minutes to figure ASE out

edit: Did i mention more customisability? Because there is more of that in ASE, you can't change anything in steam.

 

[wormstrangler]

I find it has a pro. The rest cons.

Pros:
Auto-Update

Cons:
Everything else

Server browser? I use ASE. Just a whole lot better in every way. And it should be, because it's a dedicated server browser.

The chat thingy? I use Trillian Pro. But even then I don't chat much and why the hell would I want people talking to me when I'm trying to play?

I would have much preferred a Tribe 2 way of doing things. Updates every time you start a new game. Great protection against pirating and as far as I know, no cheats.

Lets face, the only reason valve wants steam is to; maximise profits (no pirating and they hope for alot of subscriptions) and anti-cheat.

 

[Gunner]

Ugh... you say that steam is for newbies: I can assume by that you mean ASE is for the elite, yet you claim it takes 2 minutes to figure out. More powerful? ok it has many custom filters so you can find a cheating death aztec only FF on server if you want to but many players are accustomed to their favorite servers. In the end ASE is just a fancy server browser for configuration geeks who pretend to be elite.

And wormstrangler please explain how "Valve will maximize profits" with Steam, it's an interesting theory...

 

[Fjolle]

Ok... this is my first post so i will try to make it partly intelligent...

Some ppl are always afraid of change. Every time there have been an update to CS, there have been more and more ppl whining about how its gonna suck etc., but at the same time we have seen the game becoming more and more popular.
With this in mind, and the fact that its still a minority theres whining, im not specially worried.

Steam is the future of gaming! while i still dont see developers skipping the publisher, its a step in the right direction. We dont need to capm in irc to get a working mirror, if implemented right they will be able to eliminate cheating, and finally its a nice gui!

 

[Wesisapie]

I never said i was elite, i was just saying that newbies generally won't try something new, no matter how simple it actually is. Take a look at CD burning software over the years, it's become more and more dumbed down for the mainstream market. It's big fancy pictures, fancy buzzwords, and burning wizards.

ASE is more powerful than the steam browser, maybe you will accept that sometime. And i'm not just talking about the amount of filters it has.

 

[wormstrangler]

"And wormstrangler please explain how "Valve will maximize profits" with Steam, it's an interesting theory..."

Subscription mainly. And the fact that it's highly likey to stop any pirated copies being able to play mp. Which is good, but Tribes 2 managed to do that too. If you haven't yet, check out Tribes 2. Superior to steam in everyway.

 

[Fjolle]

Originally posted by MrD
ps. these are my views, which I was asked for ... so don't give me that "well if you don't like it just stfu" crap

Why does it "suck"?

1) It sits in the background eating resources - what is wrong with firing it up when you actually want to use it?

You dont have to have it running all the time

2) It is the most ugly thing I have ever seen. Skins? well this just means they have to spend time implementing a skin interface and fixing bugs in that, which they should really be spending fixing number 3 & 4 ... the Windows controls are there for a reason, they may not be the best looking but they have been tried and tested over a great number of years ... I wish these things would stop re-inventing the bloody wheel.

3) It is full of bugs. Sometimes I would get no progress bar, so I had no idea how long it would take to finish the video. Othertimes clicking the launch button wouldn't work.

4) In general it just seemed to hog my broadband bandwidth for no apparent reason, downloading stuff that I hadn't asked it to.

It really doesnt take much resources from the bug-finding team to make a skin-support...
That other stuff is something i havent had any problems with. this stuff can easily be your homemade problem.. (OMG IT USES B/W WHEN I DOWNLOD STUFF ! HAX0RZ!)

5) Most importantly it has no useful purpose, which is the thing that really pisses me off about having to have it ...

-------------------------------------------

Game Installer - traditionally I can browse to the website, click "download patch v1.xxx" and click "Save to disk". I then have a copy of the patch which I can transfer when I reformat etc.

yes... you need patch from xx to yy, then from yy to xx etc, and then you need to update all your mods...

Game Launcher - wow!!! I mean thats amazing, its not like Windows hasn't been able to lauch games for like the last ALL OF ITS LIFETIME - again reinventing wheels. With the Windows START menu I can set-up a keyboard shortcut, can steam do this??? - no reinvent the wheel and then make it crapper.[/b]

thats a matter of preferrence... i am currently using a custom windows toolbar, which steam is gonna replace just fine!

Frontend - okay, one useful thing is the in-game ability of this stuff.

Content Delivery - ha!, well yes... but who is providing the bandwidth for Steam?? why don't they just provide a webpage instead ?! ie. rather than forcing people to download extra megabytes in the form of Steam, and then downloading the same content in a shit unfriendly UI? more reinvention of the wheel.. people are used to using the internet, don't make them go up another learning curve to do the same thing a different way.
[/qoute]
ever tried to get a cs patch in the 24 hours after it was released??? also see my comment about updates...

Marketplace - this could work. Though I don't see how it is that different from places like www.regnow.com which allow small software engineers like myself to charge for things.

it will be easier to sell your stuff where almost all your to-be customers already are...

Digital Rights Management - LOL! I laugh so hard when I see this stuff. There is no such thing, there will always be cracks. And yes, maybe Steam can encrypt stuff, whatever... eventually it needs to be unencrypted for the people to play it, so that is where the hackors will get their crack from. Don't compare this to the video releases - there was a fundamental difference... the videos were not released yet (thus nothing to crack). You may be able to stop people authenticating to general servers, but you can't stop piracy because it will still be possible to crack the server, and set-up a private one.

If steam is used as back-end in a game, the cracker would need to rewrite the way it works, and not just remove some stupid copy-protection...

Anti Cheat - umm, maybe though surely you could instead install the cheat into DirectX?? make the walls see-through and how could they tell that?

again, just my views which i was asked for

Big brother IS watching you

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by Wesisapie
I never said i was elite, i was just saying that newbies generally won't try something new, no matter how simple it actually is. Take a look at CD burning software over the years, it's become more and more dumbed down for the mainstream market. It's big fancy pictures, fancy buzzwords, and burning wizards.

ASE is more powerful than the steam browser, maybe you will accept that sometime. And i'm not just talking about the amount of filters it has.

You never said it but calling others newbies because they use different software is the "elite" way. ASE is a more powerful browser? why is that? can it find more servers? does it have an integrated chat program? can it play small games while you wait? no. It's a geek's tool who thinks steam is mainstream and that anything mainstream is either evil or run by Microsoft or both.

 

[Wesisapie]

Can it find more servers? Most likely not, but it finds them quicker (more quickly if you're going to be pedantic). Does it have chat? I don't want to chat to the 13 year old CS nerds, it's enough to have to chat to them ingame, let alone in the browser too. Play small games while i wait? I have plenty of small games i can play while i wait, i don't need their limited supply.
I don't think it's evil because it's mainstream, hell i don't even think it's mainstream yet. I just think it's probably been dumbed down and spruced up, in an attempt to make it mainstream. After all, isn't that what Valve wants?

And if it's such a geek's tool, why are you the one who has made just as many posts as me in about a month, or less? I don't come here often, though the same probably can't be said about you. Geek.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Fjolle
You dont have to have it running all the time

I don't class CTRL-SHIFT+ESCAPE... End-Process as a well understood method for closing an application.
And how many "n00bs" know how to prevent it from starting when the system is booted?

"don't have to" is a matter of skills

It really doesnt take much resources from the bug-finding team to make a skin-support...

You would have to write custom versions of all the standard windows controls... buttons, checkboxes, option boxes, list boxes, text boxes, progess bars, labels, scroll bars, drop-downs, tooltips, hyperlinks, images, menu bars, popups... then write an interface to allow them to be skinned.

Don't tell me that "doesn't take much resources" lol!

That other stuff is something i havent had any problems with...
(OMG IT USES B/W WHEN I DOWNLOD STUFF ! HAX0RZ!)

try.. "omg it uses b/w when i am not doing anything in steam and am just browsing the internet"

if you have had no problems, then lucky you.

yes... you need patch from xx to yy, then from yy to xx etc, and then you need to update all your mods...

Or you download the one that says "zz (full)" and skip all the middle updates.

thats a matter of preferrence... i am currently using a custom windows toolbar, which steam is gonna replace just fine!

And what % of the population do this??

it will be easier to sell your stuff where almost all your to-be customers already are...

possibly, but no-one seemed to have any problems finding the original CS did they? If their site had a "buy me" link then voila - same effect using existing technology with insustry standard security (SSL), and not to mention familiar to the majority.

If steam is used as back-end in a game, the cracker would need to rewrite the way it works, and not just remove some stupid copy-protection...

no they would just replace the code functions that do the checking ...

bool CheckMyKeyAgainstWONThingy() {
return true;
}

bool CheckMyBitsAgainstWONThingy() {
return true;
}

and the same in the server.

Big brother IS watching you

He is wasting his time.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by Wesisapie
Can it find more servers? Most likely not, but it finds them quicker (more quickly if you're going to be pedantic). Does it have chat? I don't want to chat to the 13 year old CS nerds, it's enough to have to chat to them ingame, let alone in the browser too. Play small games while i wait? I have plenty of small games i can play while i wait, i don't need their limited supply.
I don't think it's evil because it's mainstream, hell i don't even think it's mainstream yet. I just think it's probably been dumbed down and spruced up, in an attempt to make it mainstream. After all, isn't that what Valve wants?

And if it's such a geek's tool, why are you the one who has made just as many posts as me in about a month, or less? I don't come here often, though the same probably can't be said about you. Geek.

Finds them quicker? it all depends on your connection.

You don't have to chat to 13 year olds, you're supposed to add friends to your list not random people, it's the same logic that applies to all chat programs.

Steam is going to be released to the general public tomorrow, and it will become mainstream. Valve is looking after its' own interests just like every other company or anybody else for that matter.

And what does a post count have to do with anything? does it mean I'm "twice" the geek that you are because I posted the same amount as you in one month instead of two? your logic defies gravity.

 

[Space Cowboy]

Yeah....because I d/led Steam and created an account will I have to create a new one when HL2 comes out? What is this stuff about creating an account from where you buy HL2?

Also I can't use the Half Life movies section of steam. Doesn't worry me though.

What is this new Steam coming out on Wednesday?

 

[Epsi]

You need to create a new account on Wednesday when Steam comes out final rather than beta, there's some bug fixes, new features etc. You don't need a new account to buy HL2. Steam is winding down at the moment, ready for the relaunch on Wednesday, which is why the movies are non-functional.

 

[DOOManiac]

My only problem with Steam is that Valve really hasn't bothered to consider that around 80% of the community doesn't like it, and 50% can't even run it...

They've always said steam would be optional, mainly for 56k users, and now that's changed and its going to be required...

 

[Gorgon]

If this is the only way to play HL2 online then I have (Must) Download it.:upstare:

 

[Murray_H]

Never had a problem with steam, its a good program and frankly i dont see what all the crying is about.

I guess people really dont like change

 

[Gunner]

56K online gaming? get broadband. 56K is good for email and surfing, no use for 32/64 player games.

 

[Epsi]

I don't think that it's 50% that are having problems. According to Valve's press release, over 300,000 people have downloaded Steam. If 150,000 of them were having problems, the Steampowered forums would be overflowing with people complaining. I for one have had only insignificant problems with it.

I guess it's a case of the majority who haven't had problems keep quiet while the minority who are are more vocal about their problems.

Disclaimer: Just an opinion.

 

[DOOManiac]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
56K online gaming? get broadband. 56K is good for email and surfing, no use for 32/64 player games.

You have to understand that there are many people who live in areas where they can't get broadband (either because of remote location or their country). And most people can't just pack up and move to a different state or country just for better bandwidth...

and also, most of the people who had problems with steam, at least the ones that I know, just uninstalled it, rather than spending a lot of time griping about it or trying to fix it.

 

[Gunner]

If you don't have broadband then you can't expect to play the latest games online. It's not really anyone's fault but the same logic applies to people with lower end hardware, is it fair that only people with ninja pcs can run Steam or HL2? well yes and no. You see where I'm getting at?

 

[DOOManiac]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
If you don't have broadband then you can't expect to play the latest games online. It's not really anyone's fault but the same logic applies to people with lower end hardware, is it fair that only people with ninja pcs can run Steam or HL2? well yes and no. You see where I'm getting at?

Have you seen HL2's system requirements? 750mhz + a TNT2. The type of system you could probably get for under $100. Valve is really going out of their way to make it so old systems can play HL2.

Also, there aren't ANY multiplayer games out now that require broadband (although you could argue for a few MMO's but that's more of a crappy netcode issue than anything). The vast majority of gamers are still stuck on 56K, and it seems odd that Valve would alienate these people for online play while striving so hard to make sure the game runs on the system in the first place...

 

[tedge]

The only gripes I have with Steam are the lack of information about whats installed/downloading, the lack of automatic uninstall for each of the games from inside Steam and the fact that you have to be online even for local games.

The first problem is being addressed already anyway. Having 3 machines, it'd be nice if you only had to download updates once, and then be able to distribute locally to the other machines. It'd also be better if Steam downloaded game levels as part of the update, rather than at the loading screen between levels, as that takes a prohibitive time with 56K.

But as a concept Steam is fantastic! Just needs refining with greater control given to the user.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by DOOManiac
Have you seen HL2's system requirements? 750mhz + a TNT2. The type of system you could probably get for under $100. Valve is really going out of their way to make it so old systems can play HL2.

Also, there aren't ANY multiplayer games out now that require broadband (although you could argue for a few MMO's but that's more of a crappy netcode issue than anything). The vast majority of gamers are still stuck on 56K, and it seems odd that Valve would alienate these people for online play while striving so hard to make sure the game runs on the system in the first place...

I did say 32/64 player games, try a DC 64 server with a 56K you'll be gouging your eyes out before you know it; or even a 32 player CS server, the LPBs will be schooling you left and right, hell you'll be lucky if you manage to kill an afk. And if you really believe in minimum requirements then you are a class A fool: it is a known fact that the minimum requirements are lies that will convince guilible consumers into purchasing their products.

 

[Blud Stane]

no i think you misunderstand minimum requirements..

they only say the game will run (which isn't a lie) it just runs like shit and is unplayable, but it runs the game sad but true

 

[manny_c44]

I think steam is great. I mean it lets take the game wherever you go, without actually taking the game with you.

I have heard some problems about finding freinds in the multiplayer searches, but overall I think its brilliant, I played the entire opposing Force expansion off of steam and it worked fine (except for that bizarre elevator glitch, which was also present in the regular release).

All in all its all allright.

 

[shapeshifter]

)[eVo]( Para is totaly right, on most games minimum requirements are a total joke, what you should look at is the recomended requirements, if you meet that it should play fine (alot of games have minimum, recomended, and "pefered")

 

[DOOManiac]

My point about minimum system requirements is that when the bare minimum is 750mhz+TNT2, you're 1.2 ghz with Geforce 2 MX (nowadays a very cheap system) will be fine...

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Murray_H
Never had a problem with steam, its a good program and frankly i dont see what all the crying is about.

I guess people really dont like change

Yup, since you like it, everyone must like it ... cos thats the way the world works

I am fine with change. I would like Steam if it was good.

 

[Nippy_Kangaroo]

Cant say I'm a big fan of steam (prefer not to have steam installed) but If i have to have it installed to play hl2 then so be it...
I might even get to like it :cheese:

 

[TrueWeltall]

Im on a pentium 3 800mhz, 384 mb ram, gf2, this is my halflife machine. I use steam to play sometimes and it works just fine, takes about 10 seconds to start up and doesnt hog my reasources like you people say. Updates dont take long at all if you have broadband, i get the best download speeds on steam pushing 5MB I use ASE for battlefield and its the most annoying program with you having to register to get rid of 'scanner load to high' crap. Not to mention when your done playing a game you have tons and tons of invites from random people.