Jesus Camp

[Shift]

http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/00118

Is it me, or is this world becoming ever more insane by the day. That video is one of the disgusting and shocking videos I have ever witnessed and if I was in any position of authority I would march in and close down that entire organisation for indoctrinating kids like ****ing terrorists.

They talk of the will of god blah blah blah but what they are doing just contradicts everything of the entire religion and turned into some sort of insane cult. That is why I am now a firm agnostic, staying away from any religion but staying open minded in the process, because frankly I just dont know what to believe nowadays.

Views?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Crazy people have always existed and always will exist, just with mass media you are more aware of it.

Not a cause for concern.

 

[lePobz]

Nothing shocking, it just underlines how religion needs to be abolished entirely before humanity can progress.

 

[Dan]

http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/00118

Is it me, or is this world becoming ever more insane by the day. That video is one of the disgusting and shocking videos I have ever witnessed and if I was in any position of authority I would march in and close down that entire organisation for indoctrinating kids like ****ing terrorists.

They talk of the will of god blah blah blah but what they are doing just contradicts everything of the entire religion and turned into some sort of insane cult. That is why I am now a firm agnostic, staying away from any religion but staying open minded in the process, because frankly I just dont know what to believe nowadays.

Views?

Makes you wonder though, what kind of crazy shit you were raised to believe in. You see yourself as objective and normal. But from the inside they see themselves as the normal ones too. What is it all relative to? Nobody can be objective.

 

[Shift]

Well we are the ones to object because we make our own choices, which is one of the fundamentals of christianity. They are having the choices made for them, and in that process are contradicting the faith they believe in.

 

[Dan]

Well we are the ones to object because we make our own choices, which is one of the fundamentals of christianity. They are having the choices made for them, and in that process are contradicting the faith they believe in.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of objective.

 

[Shift]

Still made a valid point though.

 

[Mr Stabby]

People who chose to believe in Christianity, chose to believe in it. So they make their own choices regarding the matter.

 

[Ravioli]

i cant even watch it, thats how disturbing it is. Hardcore Atheist here

 

[Shift]

If you watch the video, you will see first hand that these children had no choice in the matter because from the young age it was hardwired into them, for a lot of them its already too late because they are enveloped into their beleifs.

Dont get me wrong, I think everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but I also think everyone should be able to make their own choices in what they believe, but that sadly isn't the case here.

 

[Dan]

All I am saying, is that how can you differentiate yourself from them? You both think you are right, you both think the other person is wrong. From your point of view, they are crazy nutjobs, from their point of view, you are a crazy heathen. You think that you are normal and rational, they think that they are normal and rational.

The logical conclusion is that everyone is flawed in someway, at least relative to someone else. We learn our attitudes and truths from the people around us. So the lesson to take from seeing other people act crazy isn't to point your finger but look in the mirror and try to imagine what someone else from a different point of view might think of you and your way of life.

 

[[Matt]]

People who chose to believe in Christianity, chose to believe in it. So they make their own choices regarding the matter.

The majority are indoctrinated to believe in it before they're to young to defend themselves or know any better so its not a matter of choice for most.

 

[Druckles]

Nothing shocking, it just underlines how religion needs to be abolished entirely before humanity can progress.

No it doesn't. It underlines that in every form of anything there are psychos who take things too far.

Just because there are a bunch of psychos in a specific group or sect, it doesn't stop the overall from being good.

If I said, "oh, there are so many psychos in America... America's a pile of shit" I'd get jumped on by a ton of HalfLife2.net American bodies. Wouldn't be too pleasant, but likewise you shouldn't assume religion's aload of crap because there are people who used it to burn people.

It's done alot for the world.

And no, I'm not religious before you argue against me.

 

[Mr Stabby]

What else do your parents indoctrinate you with other than religion.

I was raised as a Christian, and I don't believe in God, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Sure they believe in God as a child because they don't no any better but as they get older that's not an excuse, belief becomes a choice.

 

[Druckles]

What else do your parents indoctrinate you with other than religion.

I was raised as a Christian, and I don't believe in God, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Sure they believe in God as a child because they don't no any better but as they get older that's not an excuse, belief becomes a choice.

Couldn't have said it better.

There are few people who could have more excuse to hate religion than the indoctrinated, and most of them are dead.

 

[Mr Stabby]

In regards to the film, what is with the stick banging, 4 minutes in. This actually slightly funny.

 

[Shift]

The music is even better. The best line in the film is:

'Christian Heavy Metal'

lol wut?

 

[Druckles]

'Christian Heavy Metal'

lol wut?

It's the latest way of attempting to woo youngsters to their ways

 

[[Matt]]

All I am saying, is that how can you differentiate yourself from them? You both think you are right, you both think the other person is wrong. From your point of view, they are crazy nutjobs, from their point of view, you are a crazy heathen. You think that you are normal and rational, they think that they are normal and rational.

The logical conclusion is that everyone is flawed in someway, at least relative to someone else. We learn our attitudes and truths from the people around us. So the lesson to take from seeing other people act crazy isn't to point your finger but look in the mirror and try to imagine what someone else from a different point of view might think of you and your way of life.

The difference isnt a point of view. For me its more of a rational of question everything against their view of question nothing.

 

[[Matt]]

What else do your parents indoctrinate you with other than religion.

I was raised as a Christian, and I don't believe in God, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Sure they believe in God as a child because they don't no any better but as they get older that's not an excuse, belief becomes a choice.

You could possibly class parents playing with the idea of santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny as indoctrination but not nearly as serious as the theistic kind as no parent telling their child about them actually believes in them thereselves. Luckily the belief in those doesnt come with the caveat of 'believe in those or burn in hell for eternity' which seems to be the main catalyst for remaining faithful. A fear of death aslo seems to keep believers on the path of theism simply because of the eternal afterlife promised by the 3 abrahamic faiths.

 

[Mr Stabby]

You could possibly class parents playing with the idea of santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny as indoctrination but not nearly as serious as the theistic kind as no parent telling their child about them actually believes in them thereselves.

I was referring to moral views, tolerance etc. Chances are they are similar to the views of your parents or immediate society.

Luckily the belief in those doesnt come with the caveat of 'believe in those or burn in hell for eternity' which seems to be the main catalyst for remaining faithful. A fear of death aslo seems to keep believers on the path of theism simply because of the eternal afterlife promised by the 3 abrahamic faiths.

Yes, people want to believe in God, and what's the problem with that. There are many people who want to believe in luck, fate and superstition all equally as irrational,but why is it a problem.

 

[Dan]

The difference isnt a point of view. For me its more of a rational of question everything against their view of question nothing.

Question everything is also a point of view, some would say it is a crazy point of view. And I must say that I don't believe that is your view at all, you are very close-minded about a lot.

 

[[Matt]]

I was referring to moral views, tolerance etc. Chances are they are similar to the views of your parents or immediate society.



Yes, people want to believe in God, and what's the problem with that. There are many people who want to believe in luck, fate and superstition all equally as irrational,but why is it a problem.

I dont mind what a person believes so long as they keep their religion on a personal level which is what the majority of religious people do. My gripe with religion itself is that in the hands of the wrong type of people its a catalyst for conflict. Bieng a citizen of the UK im living in a country who's history has been shaped by the conflicting divide between catholosism and protestantism that as im sure you're aware spilled over into ireland all those centuries ago.

 

[[Matt]]

Question everything is also a point of view, some would say it is a crazy point of view. And I must say that I don't believe that is your view at all, you are very close-minded about a lot.

What am i closed minded about?

 

[Dan]

Anything to do with the word religion, the idea that you are a product your surroundings and not some objective separate all-rational entity you see yourself as, the rational arguments of others.

 

[Mr Stabby]

You'd struggle to find a religious conflict that wasn't fueled by a political agenda. It's not the religion itself that's the problem it's the political agenda.

Tribalism is human nature, whether it's religion, race, class, gender or nation people are willing to go along with crazy ideas if it's in the name of their group.

 

[[Matt]]

You'd struggle to find a religious conflict that wasn't fueled by a political agenda. It's not the religion itself that's the problem it's the political agenda.

Tribalism is human nature, whether it's religion, race, class, gender or nation people are willing to go along with crazy ideas if it's in the name of their group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution -
The political agenda behind this conflict was the fear of having a catholic king so conflicts can boil down to differences in religious views. I fully agree with your view on tribalism though and something i wish the human race less of.

 

[Mr Stabby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution -
The political agenda behind this conflict was the fear of having a catholic king so conflicts can boil down to differences in religious views. I fully agree with your view on tribalism though and something i wish the human race less of.

A catholic king would have different political views than a protestant one. For example Protestant aristocrats and the protestant church would not have benefited from England going catholic that's why the arranged for the king's removal. Considering catholics and protestants are both Christian really illustrates these conflicts are political and not theological.

 

[Acepilotf14]

I hate religous threads.

 

[PvtRyan]

What else do your parents indoctrinate you with other than religion.

I was raised as a Christian, and I don't believe in God, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Sure they believe in God as a child because they don't no any better but as they get older that's not an excuse, belief becomes a choice.

Really, so what you're saying is that 2 billion people made the decision to be Christians fully consciously at an age where they could think rationally about this sort of thing (which happens to be the exact same thing their parents believe, what a coincidence!)? Haha, very funny, but seriously now.

You may have escaped religion, but the fact that there are 2 billion Christians and some 1+ billion Muslims is proof that indoctrination of children with religion works. How many Christians do you think there would be if kids weren't taught from birth that the very personal and inane believe of their parents was fact?

You are seriously kidding yourself if you think belief in a certain religion is a choice.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Really, so what you're saying is that 2 billion people made the decision to be Christians fully consciously at an age where they could think rationally about this sort of thing (which happens to be the exact same thing their parents believe, what a coincidence!)? Haha, very funny, but seriously now.

You may have escaped religion, but the fact that there are 2 billion Christians and some 1+ billion Muslims is proof that indoctrination of children with religion works. How many Christians do you think there would be if kids weren't taught from birth that the very personal and inane believe of their parents was fact?

You are seriously kidding yourself if you think belief in a certain religion is a choice.

Ignorance is a choice. Many people do not question or scrutinize the beliefs they were brought up on, religious, moral or political. They are however perfectly free to do so.

 

[[Matt]]

Ignorance is a choice. Many people do not question or scrutinize the beliefs they were brought up on, religious, moral or political. They are however perfectly free to do so.

Its not a choice in counrties where anything but religion is taught and as such there is no other choice given...

 

[MJ12]

That is why I am now a firm agnostic, staying away from any religion but staying open minded in the process, because frankly I just dont know what to believe nowadays.

agreed.

Its not a choice in counrties where anything but religion is taught and as such there is no other choice given...

*epic spider-man music plays*
*whiney nerd voice*

Everyone has a choice! WHAT ABOUT MY UNCLE, DID YOU GIVE HIM A CHANCE? DID YOU?!

 

[[Matt]]

agreed.



*epic spider-man music plays*
*whiney nerd voice*

Everyone has a choice! WHAT ABOUT MY UNCLE, DID YOU GIVE HIM A CHANCE? DID YOU?!

kek.

As for my views I believe there very likely isn't a divine creator but im open to the idea that there may be one. Maybe an entity that started the Big bang of to find out if the answer to life the universe and everything is actually 42.... Or maybe 416 in the case of string theory

Claiming you know for certain there isnt a god is as foolish as claiming there certainly is as you're claiming knowledge of something you simply cannot know.

 

[Druckles]

Really, so what you're saying is that 2 billion people made the decision to be Christians fully consciously at an age where they could think rationally about this sort of thing (which happens to be the exact same thing their parents believe, what a coincidence!)? Haha, very funny, but seriously now.

You may have escaped religion, but the fact that there are 2 billion Christians and some 1+ billion Muslims is proof that indoctrination of children with religion works. How many Christians do you think there would be if kids weren't taught from birth that the very personal and inane believe of their parents was fact?

You are seriously kidding yourself if you think belief in a certain religion is a choice.

Someone with the inability to choose for themselves after "indoctrination" almost deserves it. I'm not supporting indoctrination, as it's messed up my life tremendously, but it doesn't stop you having your own decision about the matter.

 

[Shift]

Someone with the inability to choose for themselves after "indoctrination" almost deserves it.

lol wut?

You do know what indoctrination means dont ya?

 

[Absinthe]

All I am saying, is that how can you differentiate yourself from them? You both think you are right, you both think the other person is wrong. From your point of view, they are crazy nutjobs, from their point of view, you are a crazy heathen. You think that you are normal and rational, they think that they are normal and rational.

The logical conclusion is that everyone is flawed in someway, at least relative to someone else. We learn our attitudes and truths from the people around us. So the lesson to take from seeing other people act crazy isn't to point your finger but look in the mirror and try to imagine what someone else from a different point of view might think of you and your way of life.

IT'S A DONKEY

And you can't say I'm wrong because, like, there is no such thing as reality and everything's subjective and truth is meaningless.

What?

 

[Druckles]

lol wut?

You do know what indoctrination means dont ya?

Indoctrination doesn't force you to make decisions. It just brainwashes you to. If you're strong minded enough, you don't have to listen to it.

I still hear those voices.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Nothing shocking, it just underlines how religion needs to be abolished entirely before humanity can progress.

I think human society progresses even with religion in hand -- if not for the crazy ones, would we able to think any better? Sure, but for some people, making that decision would be a difficult one.

Indoctrination doesn't force you to make decisions.

What I hate is that the parents took them to this camp against they're will.

 

[Druckles]

What I hate is that the parents took them to this camp against they're will.

*their

And it's always the case. But it doesn't stop them making decisions in later life.