13 Things That Don't Make Sense

OCybrManO said:
How so? They are both processes beyond comprehension by our current knowledge... both involving things that, by our understanding, must have no initial point of creation... except, one of them also happens to have infinite knowledge and power. IMO, that last bit tips the scales in favor of the "no God" side. Once again, the argument for God is "we don't understand something, so it must be supernatural" while the explanation of the existence of God himself is even more absurd.
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All I was really comparing here... was an omnipotent being, compared to matter that appeared out of thin air with no discernable origin.

The only thing that could possibly interest an omnipotent God is: would it be capable of destroying itself?
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Always a good question... But my counter question is always... Would an omnipotent god ever be willing to ever consider such a thing. I guess one day i'll ask god and if you're still alive i'll give you the definitive answer ;)
 
Raziaar said:
All I was really comparing here... was an omnipotent being, compared to matter that appeared out of thin air with no discernable origin.



Always a good question... But my counter question is always... Would an omnipotent god ever be willing to ever consider such a thing. I guess one day i'll ask god and if you're still alive i'll give you the definitive answer ;)
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I already asked. He thinks we're cun.ts :(
 
Beerdude26 said:
I already asked. He thinks we're cun.ts :(
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He's right to think that about you guys.

:rolling:
 
Raziaar said:
All I was really comparing here... was an omnipotent being, compared to matter that appeared out of thin air with no discernable origin.
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So you would prefer that it was created by a God that appeared out of thin air with no discernable origin?
 
An 'omnipotent' god's origin of eternal being makes more sense than unintelligent, non powerful matter ;)
 
Raziaar said:
An 'omnipotent' god's origin of eternal being makes more sense than unintelligent, non powerful matter ;)
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No.

6shens
 
Its the stereotyped supreme being or 'god' as a human or creature that throws it all out of perspective in my opinion, maybe there is a god in the broadest sense.. but its more like a base program to all substance and existance, something we possibly cant comprehend as we are, all I know is we are a result of it and therefore a part of it. so it would stand to reason that there is something higher, or more spirtual to our existance, we are part of 'god'... etc

It definately makes you question things when you think about it the way raziar has stated, I tend to agree, it would logically go against conservation if the big bang had no source, other dimensional interactions or otherwise there is more going on than the eye can see.
 
Raziaar said:
An 'omnipotent' god's origin of eternal being makes more sense than unintelligent, non powerful matter ;)
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Statements like that are opinion unless you can back it up with logic.

So, you're saying it's easier to create a supreme being that is more powerful and intelligent than anything in existence than it is to create dumb matter?

clarky003 said:
It definately makes you question things when you think about it the way raziar has stated, I tend to agree, it would logically go against conservation if the big bang had no source, other dimensional interactions or otherwise there is more going on than the eye can see.
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Are you listening to yourself or is it going straight into the keyboard?

"it would logically go against conservation if the big bang had no source"

... yet, God follows no such rules and has existed for infinite time. Yes, I can see the logic there. Everything has to have a creator... except the creator.
 
OCybrManO said:
Statements like that are opinion unless you can back it up with logic.

So, you're saying it's easier to create a supreme being that is more powerful and intelligent than anything in existence than it is to create dumb matter?
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Yes. It is opinion. I haven't stated it to be anything other than that. In this matter there is no 'fact'. Only theories and opinions, all of which are unproved as the ultimate truth.

And I wasnt saying anything about creating that being... I was saying that that being simply 'is'. Its not created out of anything you could define, but there is no origin. It always existed, and nothing could really explain it, perhaps not even the being... except that it simply 'is'. I can fathom it easier than say... a bunch of inanimate molecules coalescing from nothingness.

Anyways. I'm not going to further discuss this. I've already layed out my views. They are all opinions, my own opinions. I haven't been putting them down as facts.

I will say this though. You believe in the same things and do the same things that religious people do. Where you can not explain something, you inevitably turn to science as your religion, knowing that there is an explanation, somehow... even if it is not explained. Well, the matter of god is religion's way of doing that... it cannot be explained, but there is an explanation. We just may never know it. And so its spiritual to us.

Science is concrete and true, and a part of life. However, don't think science can and will explain everything. God(to me) is outside of space and time and everything that entails. He(she, it) is not bound by the things that we are bound by, and thus cannot be explained in similiar fashion as the other mysteries of the universe.
 
yet, God follows no such rules and has existed for infinite time.
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what? I assume your making that up, because i dont have a clue.

and no of course its not logical that matter came out of nothing, and its even been scientifically proven that empty vacuum isnt inert.

I dont think you understand, Im not trying to justify any 'god' , just simply interesting to contemplate. The point is that our observations show the universe naturally conserves energy in one way or another, yet your more willing to assume that the universe arbitrarily came from nowhere, and no input went into creating the big bang which goes against every indication to the contrary within quantum physics and particle physic's, where 'ghost' particles are needed to explain the very existance and behaviour of physical matter.
 
You people can call me a religious nutjob all you want for my belief in a higher being such as god.

I can't ask you to believe or understand in things that are spiritual in nature.
 
Raziaar said:
Anyways. I'm not going to further discuss this. I've already layed out my views. They are all opinions, my own opinions. I haven't been putting them down as facts.
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"I can fathom it easier" says you aren't sure but you don't care enough to go further. "An 'omnipotent' god's origin of eternal being makes more sense" implies certainty. Which is it? Also, if you don't want to discuss things like this (since you, apparently, already have your answers) why do you even bother?

Raziaar said:
And I wasnt saying anything about creating that being... I was saying that that being simply 'is'. Its not created out of anything you could define, but there is no origin. It always existed, and nothing could really explain it, perhaps not even the being... except that it simply 'is'. I can fathom it easier than say... a bunch of inanimate molecules coalescing from nothingness.
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It's convenient that you don't give the same benefit of the doubt to a natural process being able to have just "always existed." Why is it that a creator can have no creator but a process can't? What's even more convenient is that this creator-being is "not created out of anything you could define." Also, "nothing could really explain it, perhaps not even the being" is just plain bullshit. If you can, with a straight face, tell me that God is omnipotent and yet can't explain his own existence... you're crazier than I thought. So, is this God of yours omnipotent/omniscient?

EDIT:
clarky003 said:
I dont think you understand, Im not trying to justify any 'god' , just simply interesting to contemplate. The point is that our observations show the universe naturally conserves energy in one way or another, yet your more willing to assume that the universe arbitrarily came from nowhere, and no input went into creating the big bang which goes against every indication to the contrary within quantum physics and particle physic's, where 'ghost' particles are needed to explain the existance and behaviour of physical matter.
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I'm not arguing for absolute nothingness before the big bang. The only reason I even considered it is because Raziaar said it was less logical than God having created everything. I'm undecided between two ideas: our equations aren't complete or what we perceive as our universe is recreated in a cyclical series of events (only possible, so far, using m-theory to explain the transition between big crunch and big bang).
 
OCybrManO said:
"I can fathom it easier" says you aren't sure but you don't care enough to go further. "An 'omnipotent' god's origin of eternal being makes more sense" implies certainty. Which is it? Also, if you don't want to discuss things like this (since you, apparently, already have your answers) why do you even bother?
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Didn't you hear me? I said I don't like rehashing the same things i've been saying over and over again. It doesn't make for effective posting, reiterating my points again and again.

And how does it say i'm not sure but don't care enough to go further? I'm saying I can believe it more readily than the other example given. I don't have answers... I have opinions and beliefs. Neither of us has hard cold facts, and so I cannot even begin to convince you. Don't you see?

It's convenient that you don't give the same benefit of the doubt to a natural process being able to have just "always existed." Why is it that a creator can have no creator but a process can't? What's even more convenient is that this creator-being is "not created out of anything you could define." Also, "nothing could really explain it, perhaps not even the being" is just plain bullshit. If you can, with a straight face, tell me that God is omnipotent and yet can't explain his own existence... you're crazier than I thought.
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I didn't mean he couldnt explain his own existence(I did not explain myself well enough. As I have said before, I have been up all night playing Multi Theft Auto). I mean there is nothing to explain. He has always been. That's all that would be able to be explained, is that he has always been. Always was... always will be.

And why are you resorting to personal remarks anyways? Crazier than you thought? How does any of this make me crazy? There's billions of religious people on this earth that believe in the same unexplainable things that I do. Are they all 'crazy' because they don't subscribe to your way of thinking?

If all you want to do is throw out little comments like that, what's the point of me even discussing my opinions with you?
 
Beerdude26 said:
Oh, ok :p
Debate done for me :p
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I don't see how you can debate on something where there are literally no concrete facts in existence on the planet without them just being opinions and theories and beliefs.

Unless you want to go to the most simplistic form of debate by definition... Argument. Which we have been doing so eloquently here.
 
Raziaar said:
And why are you resorting to personal remarks anyways? Crazier than you thought?
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You, yourself, just admitted that you explained it incorrectly... now you're asking me why I thought you were crazy? Knowledge of everything... well, except for that... but he's still all-knowing! Doesn't that sound a bit crazy (as in "afflicted with or exhibiting irrationality and mental unsoundness")? It's a bit like one plus two equals fish.

... and don't use the "playing MTA all night" excuse... because I've been doing that too! :p
 
this thread was much more interesting when god wasnt involved ..are there any countries where religion is strictly forbidden? I want "shot on sight" strict
 
OCybrManO said:
You, yourself, just admitted that you explained it incorrectly... now you're asking me why I thought you were crazy? Knowledge of everything... well, except for that... but he's still all-knowing! Doesn't that sound a bit crazy (as in "afflicted with or exhibiting irrationality and mental unsoundness")? It's a bit like one plus two equals fish.

... and don't use the "playing MTA all night" excuse... because I've been doing that too! :p
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The excuse was for the fact that I misworded what I meant to say. I admitted that.

And Stern is right. Lets not involve religion in this discussion anymore.
 
yes I'm a jackbooted nazi ...didnt you know?




believe it or not most people dont like it when other people ram their faith down their throats ..everywhere you turn there's something about god or religion or faith and I for one am completely sick of it ..there's been an explosion over the last 3-5 yrs of religious zeal that has gotten to the point where I absolutely never ever want to hear anything remotely sounding like anything religious ..I just wish ALL religious people would keep their faiths to themselves and not have to bore the rest of us to tears with their devotion
 
I'm tolerant to a point just like everyone else ..I've added more to my previous post btw
 
Raziaar said:
And Stern is right. Lets not involve religion in this discussion anymore.
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Sure. I was about to go play MTA anyway...
 
believe it or not most people dont like it when other people ram their faith down their throats ..everywhere you turn there's something about god or religion or faith and I for one am completely sick of it ..there's been an explosion over the last 3-5 yrs of religious zeal that has gotten to the point where I absolutely never ever want to hear anything remotely sounding like anything religious ..I just wish ALL religious people would keep their faiths to themselves and not have to bore the rest of us to tears with their devotion
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It kind of works both ways, don'tcha think? I'm sure it aggrivates me when people try to constantly discredit my religion and speak bad things about it, just as much as it aggrivates you when people try to cram religion down your throat.

See the thing is... i'm not cramming religion down anybody's throat, yet I still have the aforementioned problem.
 
Stern once again declares Atheist Jihad.
ssh.gif


PS: Does accepting that Jesus was ****ing metal make me a Christian?
 
I read the first sentance as
"New science article published a long time ago"
I was thinking "what a retard" until I read it again.

Edit:
Read all those before
 
Sealand was actually invaded by a couple of belgum people whilst the owner was away, he came back and held them prisoner under the geneva convention and Belgium had to send in a diplomat.
 
Raziaar said:
It kind of works both ways, don'tcha think?
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not really, contrary to popular misconception most aetheists couldnt care less what you believe in ..it's only when religion starts meddling in affairs that affect us all do we stand and take notice

Raziaar said:
I'm sure it aggrivates me when people try to constantly discredit my religion and speak bad things about it, just as much as it aggrivates you when people try to cram religion down your throat.
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yes ..I'm sorry but most of the time it's warrented ..if you were to keep to yourselves more often we wouldnt take notice

Raziaar said:
See the thing is... i'm not cramming religion down anybody's throat, yet I still have the aforementioned problem.
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I cant talk about you specifically because you havent knocked on my door asking me to read some over generalized pamphlet ...I find it's more the institutions that are to blame, not the individuals




and no sulkdodds, not an aethist jihad, just tired of seeing religon invade every aspect of society ...I liked the godless 80's and 90's MUCH better
 
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