2 choices on ideas...

[dawdler]

After looking through some mods, I noticed a few with the same idea as Unaimed... Note: I havent checked up on whether the second idea is also in the making, so this is still just a bit brainstorming and discussion. The reason is of course that I cant match up with a full team. I want something *sightly* more unique.
So to liven up general editing a bit, I thought I'd start a simple poll

Should Unaimed be continued, or should I go to idea #2?

Unaimed page is in the sig for anyone interested in reading more (short description there for everyone not interested in reading more).

The second mod idea is actually an older one than Unaimed, that I forgot about, though its different in style (originally designed for BF1942, technical limitations put a stop to it...): Its a [very] unrealistic space action sim with near cartoonish models, working name for it was Taurus Legio (which was a part of the fleet). Models are simple, just shapes... Think Homeworld (no, not Homeworld 2, I didnt know it existed when I designed it ), but without textures, and more elaborate and exagerated shapes, and of course with each player controlling a ship. Larger support crusiers/destroyer/etc would be available too, and large battleships (and when I say large, I mean LARGE, Star Destroyer to Tie Fighter style).
Gameplay is just like any other game, pit two teams against each other, fight over objectives (large space stations, planets, whatever). It would still carry over ideas from Unaimed though, minimal hud, slightly slower gameplay than used too, ship morale (aka group morale from Unaimed). It would NOT have any ground combat though, so gameplay would be quite different from original HL2, making it harder to mod than Unaimed.
The good thing is that a model can be made in like 20 minutes

Feel free to discuss! Its a forum! Dont be nice just cause I'm a moderator

Edit: And yes I am good enough with modelling and coding to see it through myself, I'm not just an idea person with no clue.

Edit2: I can paste concept ships later to give an idea of the simplicity I'm talking about.

 

[weerat]

Hmmm, having read about idea #1, Unaimed (crap name BTW) I wasn't exactly won over. The concept behind the idea appears to be a mishmash of terminology used to describe what the emergent properties of other mods already available. Admittedly, I only read the quick description on your site but I get the impression it lacks any real solid concepts, and merely contains expected outcomes.

Idea #2 however sounds a lot better. Firstly, you don't see many space combat mods so you'd be pushing an original idea. And secondly, it contains some actual ideas towards development. I'd suggest you try and take idea #2 further. Oh,and sod the simple ggraphics look.

You said you wanted to avoid ground combat but how about this. Two team cpature the flag using only vehicles. The flag can only be captured by jeeps however these are totally unarmed. These can be supported by armed escorts in the form of hoverships and fighters. This could (hopefully) provide a mixture of gameplay styles as you 'escort your flag carrier' 'fend off enemy fighters' or 'take out the enemy flag carrier'.

Best of luck buddy.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by weerat
Oh,and sod the simple ggraphics look.

You said you wanted to avoid ground combat but how about this. Two team cpature the flag using only vehicles. The flag can only be captured by jeeps however these are totally unarmed. These can be supported by armed escorts in the form of hoverships and fighters. This could (hopefully) provide a mixture of gameplay styles as you 'escort your flag carrier' 'fend off enemy fighters' or 'take out the enemy flag carrier'.

Best of luck buddy.

My english isnt the best, but the first line means I should go complex models? No, I dont want that. It would kind of go against the entire idea...

And when I said NOT ground combat I meant that literally
Jeeps? To drive on what?
No, in that example the "Jeep" would instead be a support ship that have to steal something off a space station (via docking for instance) and get away to the fleet command ship.

What you want is something like Eternal Silence if I remember the gameplay correctly.

 

[weerat]

Yeah, I know you said no ground combat, but I was just suggesting a direction you could take it in should you include ground combat. After all, the engine can do some nice geometry, it would be a shame to not have any. I was just throwing out thoughts.


However, you seem fairly set in your mind about the idea and I will go so far as to say I like the idea.

By 'sod' the simple graphics I was indeed suggesting you forget about flat shading and add some nice textures. Again, it would be a shame to completely waste some of the engines abilities.

I'd certainly try out a nice space based mod if you were to make one.

 

[Majestic XII]

How about a cel-shader space mod?

Anyways, Eternal Silance 2 will be a mod for halflife2.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
How about a cel-shader space mod?

Anyways, Eternal Silance 2 will be a mod for halflife2.

Sadly, I dont know a thing about cell-shading
But yeah, its an idea, and the style is definetly what I want.

I know this is skipping some of the engines capabilities... But if one only want that, we will see very little variations in mods... Havoc in zero g could be pretty cool too, imagine ramming a large battleship with a ramming cruiser, pieces flying slowly in all directions... Not that I'm exactly sure it works, but its worth a try.

 

[Majestic XII]

Originally posted by dawdler
Sadly, I dont know a thing about cell-shading
But yeah, its an idea, and the style is definetly what I want.

I know this is skipping some of the engines capabilities... But if one only want that, we will see very little variations in mods... Havoc in zero g could be pretty cool too, imagine ramming a large battleship with a ramming cruiser, pieces flying slowly in all directions... Not that I'm exactly sure it works, but its worth a try.

Sounds great... go with that idea.

 

[dawdler]

Here is a quick example design of a fighter (nicked "Hopper")

I even managed to cel shade it (and yes there is a few errors there)
(And the back wings arch backwards actually, cant see that on the pic)
This is the type of model complexity and ships the mod would have (well, ships might be a bit more complex than this, its just to take a few shapes and add). And of course, this is the size of a tie fighter. Then comes the bigass battleships...

 

[IchI]

hmmm, tbh. Why not just make it like anime. Instead of just basic shapes. Will look a lot better.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by IchI
hmmm, tbh. Why not just make it like anime. Instead of just basic shapes. Will look a lot better.

Because I dont like anime, hehe.
Its not a mod meant to look good in any case. Graphics is like 10% of it. Its more than Unaimed (no new), but still its in the back for the sake of concentrating on gameplay. The above model is the feel I WANT it to have. An anime model would be stupid in that case as it would be to elaborate.
Nope, a computer feel is what I want. Models will be more complex than this though, polycount will probably double. The Hooper is a bit TOO simplistic.

 

[weerat]

errrmmmm. Cel-shading involves more than just flat colour. The idea behind cell shading is mimicking the way cartoons are drawn where colour and shadow is represented by blocks of colour as a high or low light. Using models like the one you show will probably result in an awful lot of people dissapointed to find what they see as un-textured models.

You may like the look but it isn't cel shaded and I fear it isn't going appeal to many people.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by weerat
errrmmmm. Cel-shading involves more than just flat colour. The idea behind cell shading is mimicking the way cartoons are drawn where colour and shadow is represented by blocks of colour as a high or low light. Using models like the one you show will probably result in an awful lot of people dissapointed to find what they see as un-textured models.

You may like the look but it isn't cel shaded and I fear it isn't going appeal to many people.

I know shadows are supposed to be on it. I just havent figured that part out yet
I am making a little concept art (a big ship, several small around it, stars and a big sun in the background), hopefully I can get shadowing to work on it.

 

[dawdler]

Shadows became pretty crappy on that too, lol

Oh well, its one step further on illustrating the concept. And yes the capital ship needs detailing, it got zero weapon banks for instance...

 

[Majestic XII]

looks cool as hell!

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
looks cool as hell!

I take that as you like it!
But trust me, the image will look 10 times cooler when I get some 3-4 more types of ships and detail them all... Plus of course Homeworld style engine trails. If only my skills with Max werent so crappy, gonna take me a long time to figure it all out

I'm leaning very much toward this idea instead of Unaimed. Unaimed seems boring in comparison, and its my idea!? Argh!

 

[nostgard]

By 'sod' the simple graphics I was indeed suggesting you forget about flat shading and add some nice textures. Again, it would be a shame to completely waste some of the engines abilities.

Actually, the past few weeks (unrelated to HL2/Source), I've been doing a lot of development with pixel and vertex shaders, attempting to get things to look as real as posssible WITHOUT textures. You can do some really neat things, and the Source engine just makes it easier. It's surprising how much you can do with just lighting and (possibly) a normal map for shading detail.

 

[dawdler]

Pff... People talk to little in general editing.
Take a look at the page in my sig. Got some stuff up there. Lacks a bit details on gameplay though, need to elaborate on that...

More suggestions? And yes some of the models on the concept screenies arent exactly thought through. The cylinder space station looks hilarious

But maybe that's the point

 

[Majestic XII]

You need to work on the webdesign

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
You need to work on the webdesign

If you can read the text I'm happy.
I like doing stuff differently than the standard format. So is it really poor design? Or just different than what you are used to?
Btw, the shiplist page is meant to be split up in more pages, like the gameplay pages. At least I can have consistent odd design

 

[SpuD]

Dawdler, your site is... uh... well, you know.

Im making a mod site for onions right now, but once im done i could make make a design for yours, if you want me to, that is.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by SpuD
Dawdler, your site is... uh... well, you know.

Im making a mod site for onions right now, but once im done i could make make a design for yours, if you want me to, that is.

If you want
The only thing I want it to be is easy and simple... I wouldnt mind an simple php page where you can post news easily. I tested one predesigned earlier, but I never really liked it. I dont think my page supports php, its just storage space. Not sure though. Maybe need to find hosting somewhere...

Btw, an onion site? Ewwwwwww...

 

[dawdler]

Its amazing how we have 6000+ members posting thread after thread after thread of crap in the general forum but a mere half dozen that can blurt out comments and suggestions on a mod

Edit: and I forgot, I still havent gotten any reply to my thread at City-17 (not that I was expecting much from that forum, hehe), and HL2Central apparently refused to post my submitted news. Its a conspiracy. Maybe I'm on to something with my view of space. I'm expecting the smoking man to stand in a corner watching me if I look real close... :smoking:

Now I only need a few enviroment concepts (ie the ice fields), and that's about it for concept renders.

(sidenote: No, that's not teeth on top of it, its the capital ship repair bay)

 

[Wazz Pants]

I personally like your idea. It's something fresh and new.

I was actually thinking of making a space combat mod myself, but I'd have the people fighting over a few solar systems and the combat would happen in stages. Example.

Space Stage - 2 opposing fleets meet and battle. The victors from that battle vote on what to do next (find other ships to destroy, or take over a planet) the loosers from the battle vote on how to react (move their ships to make a counter attack, bring their fleet to meet the opposing side's fleet, let the opposition move as they please)

Planet Stage 1 - the attacking side encounters planetary defences (space stations, ships, guns, stationed out side of the planet) if the attackers are victorious they move on to planet stage 2, if they are not victorious they are forced to retreat

Planet Stage 2 - the attacking side invades the planet. they have to bring dropships from orbit to the ground and commence with a ground assult. the attacking side can also bring inter-atmospheric fighters to help with the assult. there will be a main objective (building) for the attackers to capture.

anyways your idea sounds wicked and i hope you actually get it working.

 

[MadMechwarrior]

dawdler you ******* you copied ES!!!

 

[SidewinderX]

this sound svery cool. Sorta like homeworld meets freespace? That would be a very cool game to play.

I'm expecilly interested in this now that i've picked up Space Empires 4X Gold again (fun^fun)

 

[Wazz Pants]

now that mech mensions it. your mod does sound exactly the same as eternal scilence

 

[dawdler]

Again note (this is written after the rest actually): The designs are old and not to be considered valid, they will change heavily, see note on SW.

Nono, you do not understand! And MadMechwarrior, you disabled PM, cant reply, so maybe I can explain it further here.

Firstly, there is no ground combat! I have never said that! I DONT WANT that! The similarities with ES is only the fact its space combat. NOTE: The above picture is old, and I'm going slightly more familiar model designs, a star wars spoof (they arent exactly the same, but similar)
I do not copy ES, I copy any other space sim, almost. The one that will be most similar is Tie Fighter. Except that its designed for multiplayer, and you sort of evolve valid stuff for that, in the same way ES have done it. Letting the capital ships be spawnpoints that spawn fighters/bombers/whatever.

Secondly, I'm going for a totally different feel. It isnt meant look the slightest realistic at all. It wont have high polygon ships. Saying TL is a copy of ES is like saying DoD is a copy of CS. Which it is in a way. Its ground combat, see? But would anyone honestly agree its a copy?

Its two entirerly different classes. Similar to the old unaimed, I have certain aims:
- Its gonna be small in final, estimate less than 20mb.
- Its gonna be simple, in everything from ship controls to weapons.
- Command is equally simple, click and order.
- Ship designs are simple, based on Star Wars, although some heavily modified for TL use, and some even share characteristics to make less ships (ie the light support/transport/medical ship that is used for both capturing stuff and repairing/refueling). The interceptor fighter might be able to equip a cloaking device (which unlike every other is oddly enough realistic, you simply make the hull black. Will cloak against dark space, but not bright... And of course is a warcrime ), making it an effective covert scout. Etc...
- Its gonna enforce team play and fleet coherence, using strict rules of engagement and RTS paper-scissor-rock style. Fleet coherence is done via something as simple as fuel and limited ammunition. You need a capital ship (or support ship) nearby, sending in bombers might get them dead in space before you even arrive.
Edit: and I forgot:
- There are only two multiplayer modes: Unlimited/Limited ships. The rest is always in effect or per map (morale, objectives, etc, etc)

Then take a look at ES. What of these to they share? I see none. Not a single line. Of course, neither designs are finished I suppose, but I still see none right now.

Edit2: My fingers hurt.
Edit3: w00t! I love editing after 15 minutes Here's the newest sample, for the Legio team (Taurus Legio, figure it out ): http://w1.855.telia.com/~u85528876/tl/concept1.jpg (Taurus will have blue coloring)

 

[Wazz Pants]

ahh I see now. there are still a bunch of simlarites (i cant' spellle) between ES2 and TL.
the main one being total space combat. ES2 isnt gonna have any land combat in it. and i do believe that ES2 is gonna have the limited ammo thing on some stuff. and a type of cloaking on scout ships

anyways here's Wazz Pant's crystal ball of forseeing. (known to not work at all %50 of the time)

TL will be released before ES2 and be a good little mod. People will enjoy playing it while getting even more excited for ES2.

hehe i like your star destroyers..... er umm "Sun Killers".

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Wazz Pants
hehe i like your star destroyers..... er umm "Sun Killers".

Actually its a "Spearhead" class heavy destroyer
Wait until you see the "Moonshadow" battlecruiser... Its based on the Eclipse Star Destroyer design, and that is TWICE as long as the Super Star Destroyer, which in turn is like 10 times longer than a Star Destroyer. Maybe it wont be that big though, I want it to fit on the map

The page will be updated today with the basic ship designs (fighters/interceptors/bombers and main destroyers for both sides). And I will probably have the time to make a few more of them, the escape pods shouldnt be to hard... The easy ships take like 20 minutes to make anyway, but that's only cause I'm a lousy modeller

 

[theGreenBunny]

Looks awesome, I liked the Unaimed idea, and I like this one even better

But how will controlling the bigger ships work? They have several turrets, and also need to be steered, so it would probably take at least 3 people (front gunner/pilot, left gunner, right gunner) to fully make use of those.
If it will take that many people to man the big ships, you'll need quite a large amount of people on a server to have two fully manned fleets. Might be a problem.

Good luck with the mod

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by theGreenBunny
But how will controlling the bigger ships work? They have several turrets, and also need to be steered, so it would probably take at least 3 people (front gunner/pilot, left gunner, right gunner) to fully make use of those.
If it will take that many people to man the big ships, you'll need quite a large amount of people on a server to have two fully manned fleets. Might be a problem.

I only expect two people to fully control a capital ship. One for flying (this is the commander of the ship, he that also can do the ordering), one that can jump between turret positions. Of course, several could man it... As many as there are turrets + commander. There will also be a inactive spot, which doesnt control anything (3rd person view of ship or whatever) which is what you default to when dying and where you have the option to launch as a new ship. From here you could take control of any turret or even be the commander if there isnt one, or he jumped ship (all players on a capital ship can do an emergency evacuate with escape pods )

Also, the absolute biggest (Moonshadow/Sunstalker) ships are not controllable, they simple are. From there you launch smaller capital ship. This is your original spawnpoint, and if you loose it, you loose the game. They dont have turrets either, so they shouldnt be left unguarded... But of course, they can stand a battleship ramming them with only a scratch, so its not THAT important to protect them even if under attack