2 more states ban gay marriage

[Phisionary]

well, I haven't read this whole thread. I don't have the heart at the moment...

There are, as other have likely pointed out, many more than two states to pass these laws. My state was one. Not only does it define marriage as 'between a man and a woman' (even though idiotic state laws had already defined it three times, apparently), it also removes many of the rights that had already existed for unmarried couples. Unbelievable. :flame:

:cheers: to Neutrino for his post, I did read that. Well said.
and btw, you can get married at 13 in my state also.

 

[Locust]

I think we can stand the fact that others have different opinions just fine. I just can't stand the fact that they've used those opinions to force their own moral values onto others when they are not affected by anything those others do. An opinion is one thing. Using that opinion to support legal discrimination is another.

How is he a sore loser? Just because his side lost in the elections doesn't mean he changed his opinions all of a sudden. You expect people just to concede? No, people will continue to fight for what they think is right on both sides. There is indeed room in America for that.

Although I firmly disagree with Neutrino on his views, I can say that he is a pretty sharp person with reasonable arguments and firm opinions. If a senseless, immature fight was started here, I assure you Neutrino didn't start it.

 

[Korgoth]

I think we can stand the fact that others have different opinions just fine. I just can't stand the fact that they've used those opinions to force their own moral values onto others when they are not affected by anything those others do. An opinion is one thing. Using that opinion to support legal discrimination is another.

How is he a sore loser? Just because his side lost in the elections doesn't mean he changed his opinions all of a sudden. You expect people just to concede? No, people will continue to fight for what they think is right on both sides. There is indeed room in America for that.

Quoted for emphasis thanks guys....

(sarcasm)
Oh and seinfeld, your rubber i'm glue blah blah blah, maybe your just a sore winner
/me sticks tongue out...
(sarcasm)

Grow up. I won't debate this with you, I just won't. My opinion is mine, and you and your precious administration can't take that from me.

 

[Absinthe]

If we allow gay marriage, we encourage a practice that has no real point but selfish indulgince. You know those marriages that you hear about that fall apart because they are based on sex alone. This would be the exact case with a gay couple. Homosexual marriages don't work and to encourage them would be a bad move on the part of the governmnet.

Are you saying that it's impossible for homosexuals to have stable and long-lasting relationships?

...

I hope you didn't.

 

[Locust]

Are you saying that it's impossible for homosexuals to have stable and long-lasting relationships?

...

I hope you didn't.

No, it is possible, but only for a few couples. The majority of people will realize that they made a mistake in their decision and either turn from it or continue to live a miserable life trapped in sin.

 

[Tr0n]

If we allow gay marriage, we encourage a practice that has no real point but selfish indulgince. You know those marriages that you hear about that fall apart because they are based on sex alone. This would be the exact case with a gay couple. Homosexual marriages don't work and to encourage them would be a bad move on the part of the governmnet.

Here is something I once told a girl I was close to...Love has no boundaries...

If both of them (guys or girls) love each other then I do not see a problem.Gay or Straight...

 

[Locust]

Here is something I once told a girl I was close to...Love has no boundaries.If both of them (guys or girls) love each other then I do not see a problem.

A homosexual relationship is shallow and will remain shallow due to the fact that they cannot have children. Hetrosexual relationships may be shallow at the beginning, but they grow in depth when a child comes into the mix. It is the duty of the parents to raise that child well. And if you say homosexuals can adopt, I will say that a child needs both a father and a mother. The mother is needed for nuturing and the father is needed for encouragement and maturity. in a family with two mothers or two fathers, the one that will suffer is the child, and that makes having the child selfish.

 

[Tr0n]

Again love has no boundaries...Hell I don't even understand how your post deals with what I said.

 

[Neutrino]

Although I firmly disagree with Neutrino on his views, I can say that he is a pretty sharp person with reasonable arguments and firm opinions. If a senseless, immature fight was started here, I assure you Neutrino didn't start it.

Thanks. Nice of you to say.

If we allow gay marriage, we encourage a practice that has no real point but selfish indulgince. You know those marriages that you hear about that fall apart because they are based on sex alone. This would be the exact case with a gay couple. Homosexual marriages don't work and to encourage them would be a bad move on the part of the governmnet.

Gay marriage is about self indulgence? Evidence?

Gay marriage is based on sex alone? Evidence?

Gay marriages don't work? Evidence?

Do you know any gay couples? Because I know 3 couples personally that have been together anywhere from 10 to 30 years.

No, it is possible, but only for a few couples. The majority of people will realize that they made a mistake in their decision and either turn from it or continue to live a miserable life trapped in sin.

Where do you get this information? I'm serious here. How do you know that it only works for a few couples? Where did you read that and what evidence supports that view?

A homosexual relationship is shallow and will remain shallow due to the fact that they cannot have children. Hetrosexual relationships may be shallow at the beginning, but they grow in depth when a child comes into the mix. It is the duty of the parents to raise that child well. And if you say homosexuals can adopt, I will say that a child needs both a father and a mother. The mother is needed for nuturing and the father is needed for encouragement and maturity. in a family with two mothers or two fathers, the one that will suffer is the child, and that makes having the child selfish.

My friends' 30 year gay relationship is shallow? How exactly is it shallow?

Infertile couples can't have children either. You think their relationships are shallow? Many other couples decide never to have children. You think their relationships are shallow?

Are you against single parent adoption? Because if you are against gay couple's adopting you have to be against single parent adoption. Both are legal by the way.

 

[Locust]

Thanks. Nice of you to say.



Gay marriage is about self indulgence? Evidence?

Gay marriage is based on sex alone? Evidence?

Gay marriages don't work? Evidence?

Do you even know any gay couples? Because I know 3 couples personally that have been together anywhere from 10 to 30 years.



Where do you get this stuff? I'm serious here. How do you know that it only works for a few couples? Where did you read that and what evidence supports that view?

I have no evdience, I know no gay couples. What I do know is that marriage is a selfless commitment of a man to a woman, where the main reward is a child. I know this because of a psycology book called "The Road Less Travled" by M. Scoot Peck and also that my parents happened to tell me that children were the best thing that ever happened to them. Now I don't know that a gay couple would be miserable, but I do know that marriage with children is the pinnicle of married life.

 

[Tr0n]

God is love...but yet when a gay couple LOVE each other it is wrong?Or is it you just only believe what some damn book tells you?

 

[seinfeldrules]

I think we can stand the fact that others have different opinions just fine. I just can't stand the fact that they've used those opinions to force their own moral values onto others when they are not affected by anything those others do. An opinion is one thing. Using that opinion to support legal discrimination is another.

How is he a sore loser? Just because his side lost in the elections doesn't mean he changed his opinions all of a sudden. You expect people just to concede? No, people will continue to fight for what they think is right on both sides. There is indeed room in America for that.

Lets face it. The majority, by far, of Americans who voted on this issue have differnt moral values then you do. They support somebody else for President. It is your own faults that you werent willing to push for civil unions. Your all out efforts were not even close to successful. Your only hope would have been civil unions and you just made that 1000 times more difficult to accomplish. Your message of "Whoever disagrees with me on this is an idiot" isnt going to help either and that is exactly how liberals sound after these results.

 

[Korgoth]

Well you know what, a married gay couple just might adopt the child of some drugged out loser man and women who didn't want the kid, just wanted the self indulgence. Thus the gay couple gives the child a better chance at life.

Oh and the drugged out couple (man and woman) could have been felons for stealing (which is a sin, much like homosexuality) to pay for their drugs (which is suicide, also a sin) So guess what, if you have no problem with that couple, then you definately shouldn't care about the gay couple doing some good.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Oh and seinfeld, your rubber i'm glue blah blah blah, maybe your just a sore winner
/me sticks tongue out...

I've never called you a moron, bigot, racist, homophobe or any other similar names. I do respect your opinion, but you need to realize that others out there hold opposing viewpoints. Moving when you dont get your way wont accomplish anything. Neither will whining about how idiotic Americans are. We need to work together to accomplish things in this country. Pres. Bush offered his hand by saying he was OK with civil unions. You can choose to accept it or spit on it. I wont hold my breath for your choice.

I am also not interested in being a sore winner. Nothing can be accomplished however if all you do is whine and throw the next four years out the window.

 

[Korgoth]

Lets face it. The majority, by far, of Americans who voted on this issue have differnt moral values then you do. They support somebody else for President. It is your own faults that you werent willing to push for civil unions. Your all out efforts were not even close to successful. Your only hope would have been civil unions and you just made that 1000 times more difficult to accomplish. Your message of "Whoever disagrees with me on this is an idiot" isnt going to help either and that is exactly how liberals sound after these results.

Now you are attacking neutrino, you truly are sad. Since neutrino is a good guy and doesn't personally attack people, i'll do it for him.

Your are a redneck jack ass moron idiot smacktard douche turdsandwhich etc. etc. etc. Grow up shut up and GTFO!

(by the way, I'm just playing)

Have fun!

 

[Tr0n]

Woooo....nothing wrong with being a redneck!Don't even walk into that field!

 

[seinfeldrules]

Now you are attacking neutrino, you truly are sad. Since neutrino is a good guy and doesn't personally attack people, i'll do it for him.

Your are a redneck jack ass moron idiot smacktard douche turdsandwhich etc. etc. etc. Grow up shut up and GTFO!

(by the way, I'm just playing)

Have fun!

I never called him a name... How exactly did I attack him?

 

[Locust]

All I know is that I will never condone Gay Marriage due to the fact that it is a corrupt practice, sort of like the orgies that the Roman people had. Sure, you liberals may get your way eventually and get gay marriage passed, but I assure you that consirative people with the moral descency to recognize that this disgusting practice cannot be condoned will rebel and that this country will fall. Now Im sure most of you are not gay, but the minority of gay people will tear this country apart trying to get their way. How can we condone destorying the unity of a country just to let a few people have their way?

 

[Neutrino]

I have no evdience, I know no gay couples.

Thank you. You have to be one of the first people against gay marriage to ever admit that.

So how do you call gay relationships shallow, sex based, and mostly doomed to failure when you have no evidence and no personal experience on the topic.

You are insulting and condemning gay couples everywhere without evidence and without experience. How in the world are you able to do that? It makes no sense.

What I do know is that marriage is a selfless commitment of a man to a woman, where the main reward is a child.

Many couples are infertile or do not decide to have children as I stated above.

I know this because of a psycology book called "The Road Less Travled" by M. Scoot Peck and also that my parents happened to tell me that children were the best thing that ever happened to them.

You know all this because you read one book on the subject and because your parents enjoyed having children. Do you not think that is perhaps just a bit of a stretch?

Now I don't know that a gay couple would be miserable, but I do know that marriage with children is the pinnicle of married life.

Not everyone agrees. Many heterosexual couples either cannot or do not want children. If you argue against gay marriage on the basis of children you are arguing against these heterosexual couples getting married as well. You cannot be against one and not the other if your argument is resting on the child issue.

 

[Korgoth]

I've never called you a moron, bigot, racist, homophobe or any other similar names. I do respect your opinion, but you need to realize that others out there hold opposing viewpoints. Moving when you dont get your way wont accomplish anything. Neither will whining about how idiotic Americans are. We need to work together to accomplish things in this country. Pres. Bush offered his hand by saying he was OK with civil unions. You can choose to accept it or spit on it. I wont hold my breath for your choice.

I am also not interested in being a sore winner. Nothing can be accomplished however if all you do is whine and throw the next four years out the window.

OOOh nice post editing there, when you quoted me you left out my sarcasm tags. Hell seinfeld, with editing like that your a regular michael moore! Go you!

(oh and to your last comment to me, did you miss the by the way i'm just playing part or have you just not read down that far yet?)

 

[seinfeldrules]

All I know is that I will never condone Gay Marriage due to the fact that it is a corrupt practice, sort of like the orgies that the Roman people had. Sure, you liberals may get your way eventually and get gay marriage passed, but I assure you that consirative people with the moral descency to recognize that this disgusting practice cannot be condoned will rebel and that this country will fall. Now Im sure most of you are not gay, but the minority of gay people will tear this country apart trying to get their way. How can we condone destorying the unity of a country just to let a few people have their way?

This will never happen. The comparisions will undoubtedly be drawn to blacks and the Civil War. They are nothing alike. I cannot wait for civil unions to come into play, they are being overlooked right now because of the zealots on both sides.

 

[seinfeldrules]

OOOh nice post editing there, when you quoted me you left out my sarcasm tags. Hell seinfeld, with editing like that your a regular michael moore! Go you!

(oh and to your last comment to me, did you miss the by the way i'm just playing part or have you just not read down that far yet?)

Hahaha I'm pretty sure people can realize it was just a joke. If the first line didnt give it away the '/me sticks tounge out part' should have. And I wasnt sure if you were kidding about the top part, I know you were on the middle.

 

[Locust]

Ok, you shut down my arguments but heres another. Marriage is an institution of religion, and most religions won't condone gay relationships. If homosexuals want their marriages so bad, why don't they just start their own church. Marriage is just an idea anyway, so I don't see why gays want it so bad.

 

[Locust]

Heres one for you Neutrino. Christianity is a religion in which sin has no power but to keep people from Jesus Christ, and this is what I beleive. I believe that any sin, whether it be homosexuality, masturbation, premaritial sex, murder, theft, or hate, that these all have detrimental effects and create guilt for the person who commits them, thus destroying their self worth. I believe that if one is a christian, or any other religion for that matter, that that person must obey the rules of that church. If they don't they feel like a failure and that they are dammed to eternal predition.

 

[Neutrino]

Lets face it. The majority, by far, of Americans who voted on this issue have differnt moral values then you do. They support somebody else for President.

The majority "by far" has different moral value then me? So? The majority "by far" once supported black discrimination. Why should I care what the majority thinks on civil rights issues? Civil rights are not about majority rule. This is why we have the bill of rights and the amendments to the constitution. These were created precisely to counteract "majority rule" when it came to these types of issues.

Ok, you say "the majority, by far," has different value than I do. Then you say "they" support somebody else for President?

The popular vote was 51% Bush and 48% Kerry. When did a 3% difference become "the majority, by far"?

It is your own faults that you werent willing to push for civil unions. Your all out efforts were not even close to successful. Your only hope would have been civil unions and you just made that 1000 times more difficult to accomplish. Your message of "Whoever disagrees with me on this is an idiot" isnt going to help either and that is exactly how liberals sound after these results.

I'm assuming you are referring to gay activists and gay rights supporters in general when you say "you," correct? Or are you actually referring to me? What exactly did I do again?

If I had to accept civil unions I would. But I fear that if we compromise with civil unions it will be much harder to eventually push for gay marriage.

When did I call anyone an idiot for disagreeing with me on this issue? Ok, maybe I insunuated that for some people calling homosexuality a disease, but that is a different matter.

All I know is that I will never condone Gay Marriage due to the fact that it is a corrupt practice, sort of like the orgies that the Roman people had. Sure, you liberals may get your way eventually and get gay marriage passed, but I assure you that consirative people with the moral descency to recognize that this disgusting practice cannot be condoned will rebel and that this country will fall. Now Im sure most of you are not gay, but the minority of gay people will tear this country apart trying to get their way. How can we condone destorying the unity of a country just to let a few people have their way?

Gay people will destroy the country? I'd like a detailed explanation of how exactly two people of the same sex having a relationship will destroy America. Oh and it's not just a "few" people. There is a good chunk of the population that is gay.

This will never happen. The comparisions will undoubtedly be drawn to blacks and the Civil War. They are nothing alike. I cannot wait for civil unions to come into play, they are being overlooked right now because of the zealots on both sides.

I'm not against civil unions really. If that's all that can be obtained then of course it's better than nothing. But that still won't stop me from supporting actual marriage.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Woooo....nothing wrong with being a redneck!Don't even walk into that field!

they gave you your own field now? it's far worse than i thought.. :bonce:

When did a 3% difference become "the majority, by far"?

... yesterday.. weren't you watching tv? :|

 

[Locust]

The majority "by far" has different moral value then me? So? The majority "by far" once supported black discrimination. Why should I care what the majority thinks on civil rights issues? Civil rights are not about majority rule. This is why we have the bill of rights and the amendments to the constitution. These were created precisely to counteract "majority rule" when it came to these types of issues.

Ok, you say "the majority, by far," has different value than I do. Then you say "they" support somebody else for President?

The popular vote was 51% Bush and 48% Kerry. When did a 3% difference become "the majority, by far"?



I'm assuming you are referring to gay activists and gay rights supporters in general when you say "you," correct? Or are you actually referring to me? What exactly did I do again?

If I had to accept civil unions I would. But I fear that if we compromise with civil unions it will be much harder to eventually push for gay marriage.

When did I call anyone an idiot for disagreeing with me on this issue? Ok, maybe I insunuated that for some people calling homosexuality a disease, but that is a different matter.



Gay people will destroy the country? I'd like a detailed explanation of how exactly two people of the same sex having a relationship will destroy America. Oh and it's not just a "few" people. There is a good chunk of the population that is gay.



I'm not against civil unions really. If that's all that can be obtained then of course it's better than nothing. But that still won't stop me from supporting actual marriage.

It isn't the gays, it is everyone. Everyone will tear this country apart. Look at the civil war. But if people feel that strongly about having their civil liberities, I say let em fight and may God be with them. But before you fight for something, ask yourself if it is worth fighting for. The slavery of the civil war was worth fighting for, which is why it was so hard to win. I just ask that before you argue for a cause, think about if it will be worth it or not.

 

[Death.Trap]

Heres one for you Neutrino. Christianity is a religion in which sin has no power but to keep people from Jesus Christ, and this is what I beleive. I believe that any sin, whether it be homosexuality, masturbation, premaritial sex, murder, theft, or hate, that these all have detrimental effects and create guilt for the person who commits them, thus destroying their self worth. I believe that if one is a christian, or any other religion for that matter, that that person must obey the rules of that church. If they don't they feel like a failure and that they are dammed to eternal predition.

I don't know what church your a member of, but it's a little more complicated than that. Basically, even if you die with a mortal sin on your soul there is still a chance after death to make it to heaven. BUT, you can't just live however the hell you want and expect to be given this chance after you die. If I've tried to live a good life, obeyed the ten commandments, and all that stuff then one day I die with a mortal sin on my soul, I will probably make it to heaven. Because in the end, it all comes down to a choice. You choose to go to heaven, or you choose to go to hell. Once you die, you will bare witness to every sin you've ever commited. At that point in time, you are presented with a choice. You can either blame God for your actions or you can accept that they are ineed your fault and take responsibility. Some people, when they realize that they are at fault tend to get angry and lay the blame at other peoples feet. Anyways...It all comes down to a choice. How you live your life determines how well you will be able to resist the temptation to blame God for your sins when you die.


BTW this is the Catholic teaching. It's not something very many catholics know about though. =/

 

[Locust]

I don't know what church your a member of, but it's a little more complicated than that. Basically, even if you die with a mortal sin on your soul there is still a chance after death to make it to heaven. BUT, you can't just live however the hell you want and expect to be given this chance after you die. If I've tried to live a good life, obeyed the ten commandments, and all that stuff then one day I die with a mortal sin on my soul, I will probably make it to heaven. Because in the end, it all comes down to a choice. You choose to go to heaven, or you choose to go to hell. Once you die, you will bare witness to every sin you've ever commited. At that point in time, you are presented with a choice. You can either blame God for your actions or you can accept that they are ineed your fault and take responsibility. Some people, when they realize that they are at fault tend to get angry and lay the blame at other peoples feet. Anyways...It all comes down to a choice. How you live your life determines how well you will be able to resist the temptation to blame God for your sins when you die.


BTW this is the Catholic teaching. It's not something very many catholics know about though. =/

It is all about accepting Jesus and turning from sin. To accept Jesus though is something that I don't even understand. I think that it means to live your life for Christ alone and not for yourself. "Seek first the kingdom of God, and all else will be granted unto you" is what I'm trying to say. So to accept Jesus one must turn form their selfish ways and put Jesus first.

 

[Platinum]

i am so down with homosexuality ....

 

[Neutrino]

Ok, you shut down my arguments but heres another. Marriage is an institution of religion, and most religions won't condone gay relationships.

First, legal marriage is not a religious institution. Non religious people can marry just as easily as religious people. This is te issue, legal marriage not religious marriage.

If homosexuals want their marriages so bad, why don't they just start their own church.

There are already churches that support it. This has nothing to do with legal marriage. The point is that even if a gay couple get's married in their own eyes they are denied the right to call it marriage by the government and society.

Marriage is just an idea anyway, so I don't see why gays want it so bad.

Well, legal marriage is not just an idea, but I understand what you're saying. Why do gays want it so bad? Well, do you want marriage? If it's just an idea why do you want it? Would you seriously be ok with the government banning heterosexual marriages? I mean it's just an idea anyway, so I don't see why straight people want it so bad?

Heres one for you Neutrino. Christianity is a religion in which sin has no power but to keep people from Jesus Christ, and this is what I beleive. I believe that any sin, whether it be homosexuality, masturbation, premaritial sex, murder, theft, or hate, that these all have detrimental effects and create guilt for the person who commits them, thus destroying their self worth.

I'm not quite sure what your trying to say? I respect that you have that belief, though I do not share it.

I believe that if one is a christian, or any other religion for that matter, that that person must obey the rules of that church. If they don't they feel like a failure and that they are dammed to eternal predition.

Ok, that's fine. But what exactly does that have to do with gay marriage? Like you said, there are many religions, some who support gay marriage. You are allowed to follow your own religion, they should be allowed to follow theirs. Also, there are many non religious people to who cannot be held accountable to purely religious morals. I can't force you to obey my morals any more than you can force me to obey your morals. The only exception is when an action actually harms another person, something gay marriage does not do.

But this is exactly what is happening. One religion or group of religions is trying to force their beliefs on others. They are trying to use one religions beliefs to interfere with another groups practice, when that practice does not even affect them. You are free to be against gays and gay marriage. This is a basic freedom of this country. But this means that another person should be just as free to support gays and gay marriage or the whole system breaks down and both groups are harmed.

Like I said earlier, opinions are fine. I really don't care if you or others dislike gays and gay marirage or if you are against it for religious reasons. That's your right and no one is trying to take it away from you. My only problem stems when people take those opinions and try to turn them into laws. It would be like me trying to prohibit you from practices your own religion because I disagree with it. As long as that is just my opinion that's fine, but if I try to use law to force my opinion on you and your actions that is wrong and that is exactly what is being done with gay marriage.

 

[seinfeldrules]

The popular vote was 51% Bush and 48% Kerry. When did a 3% difference become "the majority, by far"?

We were talking about gay marriage here and the proposals that passed. Many that I saw at late hours were at 60/40ish.

The majority "by far" has different moral value then me? So? The majority "by far" once supported black discrimination. Why should I care what the majority thinks on civil rights issues? Civil rights are not about majority rule. This is why we have the bill of rights and the amendments to the constitution. These were created precisely to counteract "majority rule" when it came to these types of issues.

Gays will receive equal rights under civil unions. The President has extended his hand, will you accept or spit on it? You can yell, scream, or type all day long that you want gay marriage. With the number by which it was defeated, it wont happen for a long, long time. The intelligent thing to do is compromise and accept civil unions.

I'm assuming you are referring to gay activists and gay rights supporters in general when you say "you," correct? Or are you actually referring to me? What exactly did I do again?

Mostly liberals in general. I didnt refer to you personally at all, or didnt intend to. I only quoted you because it was a base to begin my argument and I am sick of arguing with stern.

If I had to accept civil unions I would. But I fear that if we compromise with civil unions it will be much harder to eventually push for gay marriage.

Politics is a game of compromise. Like it or not religion plays a role in the vote, and it will always be part of the midwest vote. It is said by some that it is the reason Bush won Ohio. The clash between a state like Mass and Missouri is incredible.

When did I call anyone an idiot for disagreeing with me on this issue? Ok, maybe I insunuated that for some people calling homosexuality a disease, but that is a different matter.

Again, that is the general feeling you get after reading over responses by liberals in this thread, not mentioning names. Maybe I am bringing over my view from the politics thread on this one, I'll need to go back and reread the posts.

 

[Platinum]

What it all comes down to is LOVE ... Gay Marriage is fine ...

 

[Locust]

First, legal marriage is not a religious institution. Non religious people can marry just as easily as religious people. This is te issue, legal marriage not religious marriage.



There are already churches that support it. This has nothing to do with legal marriage. The point is that even if a gay couple get's married in their own eyes they are denied the right to call it marriage by the government and society.



Well, legal marriage is not just an idea, but I understand what you're saying. Why do gays want it so bad? Well, do you want marriage? If it's just an idea why do you want it? Would you seriously be ok with the government banning heterosexual marriages? I mean it's just an idea anyway, so I don't see why straight people want it so bad?



I'm not quite sure what your trying to say? I respect that you have that belief, though I do not share it.



Ok, that's fine. But what exactly does that have to do with gay marriage? Like you said, there are many religions, some who support gay marriage. You are allowed to follow your own religion, they should be allowed to follow theirs. Also, there are many non religious people to who cannot be held accountable to purely religious morals. I can't force you to obey my morals any more than you can force me to obey your morals. The only exception is when an action actually harms another person, something gay marriage does not do.

But this is exactly what is happening. One religion or group of religions is trying to force their beliefs on others. They are trying to use one religions beliefs to interfere with another groups practice, when that practice does not even affect them. You are free to be against gays and gay marriage. This is a basic freedom of this country. But this means that another person should be just as free to support gays and gay marriage or the whole system breaks down and both groups are harmed.

Like I said earlier, opinions are fine. I really don't care if you or others dislike gays and gay marirage or if you are against it for religious reasons. That's your right and no one is trying to take it away from you. My only problem stems when people take those opinions and try to turn them into laws. It would be like me trying to prohibit you from practices your own religion because I disagree with it. As long as that is just my opinion that's fine, but if I try to use law to force my opinion on you and your actions that is wrong and that is exactly what is being done with gay marriage.

I suppose I see where homosexuals are coming from too. They want freedom, just as all people do. I would sure as hell fight if the government tried to ban hetrosexual Marriage. Sure, we should accept Homosexuals for who they are, after all they are people. I guess that what Im trying to say is that Gay people aren't fighting for marriage, they're fighting for freedom. When they get it, it will become just another thing.

 

[RMachucaA]

i hope its banned everywhere. And btw, gay people are free.

 

[Tr0n]

What it all comes down to is LOVE ... Gay Marriage is fine ...

Exactly what I have been saying.See abconn it isn't bad...in your world it may be wrong...but it is love.

 

[Neutrino]

It isn't the gays, it is everyone. Everyone will tear this country apart. Look at the civil war. But if people feel that strongly about having their civil liberities, I say let em fight and may God be with them. But before you fight for something, ask yourself if it is worth fighting for. The slavery of the civil war was worth fighting for, which is why it was so hard to win. I just ask that before you argue for a cause, think about if it will be worth it or not.

This is hardly the civil war. I see no evidence that this issue will result in any of the things you describe. Even if it divides the populace politically I'm not going to just stop fighting for what I think is right.

We were talking about gay marriage here and the proposals that passed. Many that I saw at late hours were at 60/40ish.

Ya, I know. It's just you said, "they" voted for the president and I just wanted to point out that the ratio of people for and against gay marriage is not the same as the ratio of people for and against Bush.

Gays will receive equal rights under civil unions. The President has extended his hand, will you accept or spit on it? You can yell, scream, or type all day long that you want gay marriage. With the number by which it was defeated, it wont happen for a long, long time. The intelligent thing to do is compromise and accept civil unions.

Ya, the president extends his hand to gays while he also sneaks up behind them and clubs them over the head.

It's all nice and noble for Bush to say he's ok with civil unions, but when he trys to get a constitutional amendment against gay marriage passed at the same time it is mostly meaningless I think. The problem is that if people accepted Bush's "offer" and gave in to it then it would be that much easier for the ban to pass. Once a federal amendment like that pased it would be incredibly difficult to ever overturn it. Beyond even the issue at hand, I highly disagree with using the constitution as a social discrimination tool. That is not what it was designed for and anything that would help that ban pass, such as giving in to Bush's "extended hand", I am against. If that ban is defeated and completely out of the picture then I might consider compromising. But as long as that ban is hanging over our heads I see no room for compromise.

Politics is a game of compromise. Like it or not religion plays a role in the vote, and it will always be part of the midwest vote. It is said by some that it is the reason Bush won Ohio. The clash between a state like Mass and Missouri is incredible.

Politics is indeed about compromise. But I don't think this is or should be a political issue. It is a civil rights issue in my eyes and as such we should not have to compromise on it any more than blacks should have compromised during the 60's.

Again, that is the general feeling you get after reading over responses by liberals in this thread, not mentioning names. Maybe I am bringing over my view from the politics thread on this one, I'll need to go back and reread the posts.

Like I said above, I don't care if someone disagrees with me. I only have a problem when they use law to try to force their opinions on others. So that might be why many people are having a very strong reaction to this. It's gone far beyond just disagreeing about moral values.

I suppose I see where homosexuals are coming from too. They want freedom, just as all people do. I would sure as hell fight if the government tried to ban hetrosexual Marriage. Sure, we should accept Homosexuals for who they are, after all they are people. I guess that what Im trying to say is that Gay people aren't fighting for marriage, they're fighting for freedom. When they get it, it will become just another thing.

I really appreciate your effort to see it from their point of view even if you disagree and also to actually discuss the topic. It's rather refreshing really.

It will become just another thing? You may very well be right. It is human to take things for granted. I imagine most heterosexuals take their right to marry for granted. But does that mean it's not important? No, because like you said they would also fight if someone tried to take it away from them.

So it is true that often people don't always recognize their freedoms until they are taken away, but that doesn't lessen the importance of those freedoms in my mind.

 

[Locust]

I don't think any of us even know what it means to love.

 

[Tr0n]

I know I don't...

 

[Lil' Timmy]

i didn't until i met tr0n


<3