3d realms petition

[theroadtonowhere]

Ok, this is absolutely rediculous. It isn't like some one is going to not by their game because some one made a mod based off of it. If they are really that worried, their games must REALLY suck. I think if we could get enough people to email, and sighn a petition against them. They will realise that being a bunch of dicks is going to hurt them allot more than letting people explore their creativity.

http://articles.filefront.com/Mods_Tread_Dangerous_Legal_Territory/;367;;;/article.html

Web Site http://www.3drealms.com
Phone (800) 337-3256
Email [email protected]

 

[The Dark Elf]

lol petitions don't work, and your entirely forgetting ITS NOT YOUR PROPERTY TO USE AS YOU PLEASE

if you don't want people stopping you from making a mod, don't use other people's IP. make your own.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Did you actually read the article you linked? You might have to get an adult to help you with the hard bits....

Oh yeah, and a petition won't do a damn thing.

 

[theroadtonowhere]

Did you actually read the article you linked? You might have to get an adult to help you with the hard bits....

Oh yeah, and a petition won't do a damn thing.

very mature for a mod, I can see how your friendly attitude invites others into the forum

Petitions aren't as affective as fans emailing them, and that is why I included an address and phone number. If you think that modding is truly evil (i wonder why you are even here?) then you can cry about it all you want. This thread is not for you.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

3DRealms were right to shut it down, no matter what you say. It's their property, and they have a right to protect it, be it from commercial enterprises, or from a mod team.

And that's a loaded poll - you won't get useful data out of it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

very mature for a mod, I can see how your friendly attitude invites others into the forum

Thanks. Always nice to be appreciated.

Petitions aren't as affective as fans emailing them, and that is why I included an address and phone number. If you think that modding is truly evil (i wonder why you are even here?)

Eh? I've been modding games probably since before you were born. However, I understand the difference between making your own stuff, and shamelessly ripping off someone else's.
Just because people think that 3D Realms are wasting their own IP, and that someone should do something with it, doesn't grant them some kind of god-given right to use it. If people bothered learning this instead of waffling on about how "it doesn't matter if we don't make any money" (as if the quality would ever be higher enough to make anything at all....), then we'd have a far better mod community. One that promoted actual thought and imagination.

then you can cry about it all you want. This thread is not for you.

If you think I won't express my opinion on subjects such as these, then these forums are not for you.

 

[theroadtonowhere]

If you think I won't express my opinion on subjects such as these, then these forums are not for you.[/QUOTE]

You can express your opinion, but you don't need to act like a spoiled child. You could have told me your opinion without being completely rude and using personal insults, but I guess YOU have some god given right to flame anyone who thinks differently than you, is that about right? Or you French?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If they are really that worried, their games must REALLY suck.

being a bunch of dicks

Yeah, I really must stop being rude and using personal insults. Tsk.

Pot, Kettle, etc.

 

[Yombi]

Ok, this is absolutely rediculous. It isn't like some one is going to not by their game because some one made a mod based off of it. If they are really that worried, their games must REALLY suck. I think if we could get enough people to email, and sighn a petition against them. They will realise that being a bunch of dicks is going to hurt them allot more than letting people explore their creativity.

http://articles.filefront.com/Mods_Tread_Dangerous_Legal_Territory/;367;;;/article.html

Web Site http://www.3drealms.com
Phone (800) 337-3256
Email [email protected]

Uh....I don't see how using other people's creations is 'creative'....

I would be rather pissed off if someone ripped off my game idea, done a whole mode, released it to the community and wow it turns out to be crap. Now that isn't good for their brand name is it? Why risk it? There's a whole reason for IP, and 3dr have all the rights to stop that project no matter how many 'signitures' you get

EDIT: in your poll your right...its nothing todo with copyright, it's todo with IP law

 

[theroadtonowhere]

Yeah, I really must stop being rude and using personal insults. Tsk.

Pot, Kettle, etc.

You are very good at missing an entire point, personal. Personal means directed at a person. Or singular, I didn't direct that at any person. I directed it at a company, a company that isn't going to see that. If you really can't tell the difference just stop talking.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Ah, semantics. The fallback of a pedant without a valid argument. You can't seriously tell me that you didn't know what I meant?

And are you insinuating that, because the party your insults were addressed to weren't likely to see them, that it's ok to insult them? How....interesting.

 

[theroadtonowhere]

Ah, semantics. The fallback of a pedant without a valid argument. You can't seriously tell me that you didn't know what I meant?

And are you insinuating that, because the party your insults were addressed to weren't likely to see them, that it's ok to insult them? How....interesting.

, you started the bickering, not me. THis is going no where, mabey it makes you feel better about yourself to insult people at random for... literally no apparent reason. Ok, if that works for you, good luck with that internet boy. Don't bother replying, I won't read it. I guess this forum isn't for me, the moderaters are a little to immature.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Thanks for the laughs. Especially that last one. Bye!

Also, amusing that you apparently left never to return way back in November - http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?p=975538#post975538

 

[SidewinderX]

theroadtonowhere: You are the one not being mature. Yes, you have the right to express your opinion, and all that jazz. However, you need to realize that 3DRealms is well within thier legal power to do what they did.

As for Pi... he's actually in the industry, so he can argue about all he wants. Imagine if you had spent years of your life developing a fun, unique game.... and then a bunch of highschool kids copied what you did and released it for free as a mod.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I think Pi has laid a beatdown, you know.

Theroadtonowhere, Pi's right, writing a petition will do absolutely nothing - IP law is not going to change because of a few mod-makers.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Kangy]

To be honest, the team making the Duke mod should get some original content of their own, maybe come up with something innovative and new, rather than remaking games from yonder.

But, reading the article would point out to you that 3D Realms felt it was the only way to hold on to the IP they currently hold. If any Dick, Tom or Harry could use it, where are they going to get their next publishing deal from?

 

[dassbaba]

do you not understand that you could damage their reputation?

they don't want some crappy excuse for duke nukem out, even if yours may be good... they want to control their image with the community, and the mod is a liability in that sense

nothing you say/do will change what they decided on

 

[StardogChampion]

I don't get it. This is gaming websites fault for making a big noise about this. The Duke Nukem mod was not the first mod to be shut down, and it will not be the last. Stop being annoying.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I don't get it. This is gaming websites fault for making a big noise about this. The Duke Nukem mod was not the first mod to be shut down, and it will not be the last. Stop being annoying.

We should have a thread or something listing all the mods that have been closed down due to breaking the law. A complete one, might make other mod teams think again before starting when they see its far more common than they seem to think, and that they aren't any different from the others, that they wont be the ones who get away with it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It'd never work. They all believe that we're wrong, that they know better, and that they won't get shut down.

 

[The Dark Elf]

It'd never work. They all believe that we're wrong, that they know better, and that they won't get shut down.

But you'd get to add them to the list a week later though all the same

You could even put a quote with each one from things they've said, eg: the Duke Nukem one

"we wont be shut down, we're not making money from this, we're doing it because we love the game, they wont mind"

 

[Pilo]

That list would be funny, kind of a name and shame of all the people who tried and failed.

It's also amusing how people (not all) are trying to make 3D Realms out to be the bad guy, they're pretecting their property and it's there right to do so. Besides, it'd rather see something new and original rather than a game port or CS/DOD rip.

 

[The Dark Elf]

same here, I might take the piss out of 3D realms something rotton over their inability to finish DNF, but when it comes to this they've done nothing wrong and are entirely in the right, they still own the rights to everything to do with those games, even if they can't finish the new one. I'd defend my IP just as fiercly as they would. Cause if they didn't, even once, it would be used against them if someone ever tried again.

And the list would be great, im sure there's lists of older mods for HL1, quake, Doom2 and so on that tried and failed for the same reasons. There's bound to be tons, just more well known when they get stopped these days.

 

[Venmoch]

It pays to ask permission!

 

[Dan]

There's also the fact that HL2 is indirectly profiting from these mods because they require that you purchase the full game. So although the mods are free, somebody is making money.

 

[HL2W-omega552003]

3DRealms disappoited me but hey they are the ones that are expecting to make profits off of Duke nukem forever, so be it. Its sad that they have done everything short of telling theior fans "f-you" im sorry but i definaly will not buy DNF. They do not respect there fans, so why should i respect them (hint hint).

 

[Yombi]

3DRealms disappoited me but hey they are the ones that are expecting to make profits off of Duke nukem forever, so be it. Its sad that they have done everything short of telling theior fans "f-you" im sorry but i definaly will not buy DNF. They do not respect there fans, so why should i respect them (hint hint).

I hope you're talking about the lack of progess of DNF and not the pulling of small time mods?

 

[johnshafft]

lol at the people who think 3drealms owes them something...

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Pi why do you continue to converse with him if you consider him rediculous, you must be a masochist

 

[cschaef13]

3d realms is just being an asshole i mean we all know that duke forever is never going to come out

 

[holy_cheese]

3d realms is just being an asshole i mean we all know that duke forever is never going to come out

so? doesn't give anyone else the right to make it, it is their ip they can do with it as they choose.

personally i just laugh at mod teams who make mods based on other people's ip's especially a big companies.

to all those people who adamantly believe that they can do what they wish as long as its not for profit... get over yourself.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Right, and because you "know" that, that gives you the right to use their IP all you like? Please....

Regardless of what you may think of 3D Realms and DNF, no-one aside from them has the right to the use the Duke IP.

The fact that most people are failing to grasp, and that Joe Siegler quite clearly stated is that if they are not seen to be protecting their IP, then they could lose it. It's really very simple.

The irony is that Omega brought it on himself - if you go advertising your Duke mini-mod all over a big HL2 site, you're going to attract attention. If you bring attention to it, then 3D Realms have no choice but to shut you down. If he'd just beavered away quietly, keeping it purely to the forums, he could have finished and released it with relative impunity. What he did was the equivalent of shouting "HEY 3D REALMS! LOOK AT ME! I'M USING YOUR IP WITHOUT PERMISSION!"

 

[HL2W-omega552003]

I never used 209.223.11.165 as my mod's site ip...


But what they were getting their panties in a bunch over is the fact that it was going to look like duke nukem 3d, yet in all reality i wouldn't have been able to use any content, maps, sounds for the mod, all the content sould have to be recreated. Not to mention the original plan was to port the demo. plus credit was going to be givn to 3drealms for the duke theme. Chances are if it was released it would have set a president that 3drealms would be expected to surpass. Since the had the courtesy to not sick lawyers on me, I complied with their request.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I suspect you're being deliberately obtuse here....

 

[johnshafft]

... it was going to look like duke nukem 3d...

... the original plan was to port the demo. plus credit was going to be givn to 3drealms for the duke theme....

Violation of the 'look and feel' of somebody elses IP, right out of your own mouth.

Apple Sued MS for the look and feel of win 95's trash can and won. MS changed the art work and renamed it.

 

[Pilo]

The poll options are a little to be desired. Either, "OMG, like they're so mean" or "This mod would ruin 3D Realms". How about, "3D Realms are only protecting their rights" or "Mods like this have closed before and it's the risk they take in creating it so don't moan when they do"

 

[StardogChampion]

You know, if you had called it "Dukey 4D: Source", and made the levels somewhat similar to the Duke ones, they wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing. Of course everything would have to be custom (textures, sounds, models etc).

Also, you could've tried a parody mod, basically a mod taking the p*** out of Duke.

In limited circumstances you may be able to use an idea from an existing work for the purpose of making a 'parody' of it, provided that you use your own skill and originality in creating your new work, and don't use a 'substantial' part of the work you're parodying. It's often a fine line as to whether or not a work can avoid infringing another work on the basis that it is a 'parody', and so if in doubt, either seek advice or don't do it!

But, alas, you called it Duke Nukem 3D: Source (or something similar), and it got shut down. Dumb.

 

[Limpet]

So that still leaves room for someone to make a parody then?

 

[Crispy]

I began reading this thread thinking the same thing as many of you:

why can't people get it into their heads that regardless of whether a Mod will make a profit or not, the reproduction of material and its public distribution is illegal without the permission of the owner/author?

If we can all understand that copying a Music CD for a friend (without charge) is illegal, and that a Music artist who covers someone else's song has to pay royalties, why is it that people suddenly have problems with 3DRealms and the like?

P.S. While Pi's experience in the industry may qualify him to respond to the original post with gusto, never should this gusto extend to flaming, especially considering his position as Forum Mod. The public display of bickering which ensued is equally uncalled for. One of the reasons I came to these forums was because the HLSource forums were full of flaming kiddies and a Mod staff whose attitude didn't seem any more mature, I hope that this won't be what I come to expect from the HalfLife2.net Forums.

 

[The Dark Elf]

So that still leaves room for someone to make a parody then?

in a word, yes. But its far more complicated than that.

Firstly, whats considered a parody? That depends on who your talking about, everyone will see it differently. It's such a fine line with a parody that they still don't want you to do is likely to end up involving lawyers n such just because of it being difficult to see either way. I knew a guy who worked on a Matrix parody, they worked very closely with the people who made the films to ensure they weren't breaking any laws with it, they had to drop a lot and make lots of changes, it mostly consisted of a few familiar scenes with a funny twist (trinity making a long jump and falling into the trash below for example)

I doubt very much 3D Realms will be as helpful when they'll see it for what it is, simply an excuse to bend the rules to get away with using their IP.

Why can't people simply come up with something original instead. Yes it would be cool to have some Source DN mods, but nobody has the rights to do it. Trying to use parody's as a way around it is just going to be a headache in itself.

It's just a whole lot simpler to come up with something original.