4 killed when Israeli bomb hits U.N. post

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_un_observers

Here's a snip of the article:

BEIRUT, Lebanon - A U.N. observer post was hit by an Israeli airstrike in south Lebanon Tuesday, killing four peacekeepers, U.N. officials said.
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A bomb directly hit the building and shelter of an Indian patrol base from the observer force in the town of Khiyam near the eastern end of the border with
Israel, said Milos Struger, spokesman for the U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon known as UNIFIL.

So, do you think this will make more enemies in the U.N. and/or throughout the world, against Israels campaign?
 
UN accuses Israelis of deliberate attack

UN news centre said:
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli defence forces of a UN observer post in southern Lebanon"

In his statement, Mr. Annan said that the “coordinated artillery and air attack” occurred despite personal assurances given to him by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared fire. The Secretary-General said the post, near the Lebanese town of Khiyam, was “long established and clearly marked.”

In addition, he said the UN Force Commander in south Lebanon, General Alain Pelligrini, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day, stressing the need to protect this particular UN position from attack. At least 14 incidents of firing close to that post have been reported since this afternoon. A UN spokesman added that the firing continued while a search and rescue operation was taking place.
.

so much for precision bombing

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1084162006
 
This is the perfect way to turn the entire world against your plight.

Deliberately destroying a United Nations observation post is bordering on retardation. How stupid is Israel to do this? I didn't think they would stoop that low. I'd like to pass it off as a total accident by a pilot......but this isn't the first attempt by Israel to silence those that are telling the world how it is.
 
Israel thinks it has the support of USA so it can do ANYTHING it wants. Israel's just like cosset. It will not stop until it got punished!
 
I remember reading this guys article just last week, and it struck me. he's dead now! :(

Jul 19 said:
With the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, Major Hess-von Kruedener is the only Canadian serving as a United Nations Military Observer in Lebanon.
Jul 19 said:
I have now been stationed here in south Lebanon for Approximately nine months.
Jul 19 said:
we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.
160_Kruedener_0607183.jpg
<<<<-----His picture from just last march while serving in lebanon.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060718/mideast_lebanon_UN_060716/20060718/


Today said:
One Canadian UN staffer was believed to be in the area struck by the bomb - a soldier with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry who has reportedly been in the region for nine months.
http://www.cjob.com/news/index.aspx?dir=national&src=ext&rem=./n0725115A.xml

In Kingston, Ont., Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener spent Tuesday night praying that the Canadian was not her husband Paeta.

"I'm sure he's OK," she told the Kingston Whig-Standard. "He knows what he's doing, and what he should be doing in that situation. There's a bunker there that he could have gotten into. We're not giving up hope."

She had last spoken to her husband at 8 a.m. Tuesday and although there was no followup call with good news, by late Tuesday night there was no call with bad news either.
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=n072604A

tomorrow, it'll be confirmed.... :(
 
There's no such thing as precision bombing, its like shooting down a plane with a howitzer = not very effective :p
 
There's no such thing as precision bombing, its like shooting down a plane with a howitzer = not very effective :p
Err, there is such a thing as precision bombing, it's called LGBs, Laser-Guided Bombs and is a Precision-Guided Munition.:hmph:

Anyway, back on topic, this a outrage imo.. Israel needs to be shoved into a pile of their own shit and realize that they're going way out of line.
 
I have a hard time believing that Israel would purposley bomb UN observers. As someone said earlier in the thread that is borderline retarded.
 
so ...do you have any evidence to support your statement or are you going on gut feeling alone?
 
so ...do you have any evidence to support your statement or are you going on gut feeling alone?


What statement? I'm not making a proclomation here. I don't know what happened either way, obviously. I just don't think Israel is stupid enough to do something like that when the whole world is watching. Maybe they are though, I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
 
I have a hard time believing that Israel would purposley bomb UN observers. As someone said earlier in the thread that is borderline retarded.

I dont, the Isrealis have a deep hatred of the UN, especcially when they see them as sticking their noses into Isreals problems.
 
lol, anything to back that up? Why would Israel hate the UN => the UN created Israel.. :p
 
Not really, Palistine was a British holding at the end of WWII. It was mainly the British who created Israel.
 
the UN observers were in a bunker when they sustained a direct hit ..there are no other bunkers in the area ..why would they fire munitions capable of destroying bunkers in a residential area?

btw the UN observer post has been there since 1978 and was clearly marked



damn found an article from a Canadian UN observer most likely killed in the attack

CTV said:
My name is Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, and I am an Infantry Officer with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, of the Canadian Forces. I was sent to this Mission (United Nations Truce and Supervision Organization -UNTSO) last October 05, and am currently serving as an unarmed Military Observer. I have now been stationed here in south Lebanon for Approximately nine months.

I am currently writing to you from the UN Patrol Base Khiam, which is situated approximately 10 km from the nexus of the Israeli, Lebanese and Syrian Borders. I am serving with Observer Group Lebanon, or OGL, and I am on Team Sierra. The Patrol Base is named after the village it is situated in, El Khiam, which sits on one of four ridges which dominates both the Hasbani River valley, which then changes to the Houla Valley when it crosses the Lebanon-Israel border 10 km to our south.

Based on the intensity and volatility of this current situation and the unpredictability of both sides (Hezbollah and Israel), and given the operational tempo of the Hezbollah and the IDF, we are not safe to venture out to conduct our normal patrol activities. We have now switched to Observation Post Duties and are observing any and all violations as they occur.

This is all the information of a non-tactical nature that I can provide you. I cannot give you any info on Hezbollah position, proximity or the amount of or types of sorties the IAF is currently flying. Suffice to say that the activity levels and operational tempo of both parties is currently very high and continuous, with short breaks or pauses. Please understand the nature of my job here is to be impartial and to report violations from both sides without bias. As an Unarmed Military Observer, this is my raison d'etre.

What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.

I wonder if he'd change his mind if he could

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060718/mideast_lebanon_UN_060716/20060718/
 
Bad move on Israels part this situation is going to escalate out of control, I can feel it.
 
Big surprise.

Do a little search on the USS Liberty (1967) and you'll understand the sarcasm of my previous sentence.
 
They hit a UN post in 1996 also. UN's investigation concluded they used a spy plane to mark the target so it couldn't have been an accident.

All those saying how retarted Isreal would be to do this are watching too much american media. I suggest you look at all the evidance. I turned on the today show this morning and they had bennet on. They asked him if he thought what the secratery general said was valid. He said no and just like that they moved on, no mention of the evidance the secretary had, no mention of anything. Just we'll take your world for it and lets move on.
 
I have a hard time believing that Israel would purposley bomb UN observers. As someone said earlier in the thread that is borderline retarded.



it wouldn't be the first time that they hit a friendly target on purpose.


USS. Liberty




edit: VictimOfScience beat me to it.
 
Several official US and Israeli investigations maintained the initially published conclusion that the event was a tragic mistake through misidentification.

uhum,

Three subsequent Israeli inquiries concluded the attack was conducted because Liberty was confused with an Egyptian vessel

Source

I mean come on, Americans have killed fellow Americans and British in Iraq -> friendly fire. It happens in war because we're not as sophisticated as Command and Conquer Generals (and even there sometimes the wrong units get bombed) :p
 
The attack lsted 45 minutes continues firing on the Liberty.If you belive that its simply a misunderstanding then you are very gullible
 
uhum,



Source

I mean come on, Americans have killed fellow Americans and British in Iraq -> friendly fire. It happens in war because we're not as sophisticated as Command and Conquer Generals (and even there sometimes the wrong units get bombed) :p

well what did you expect from israel? in contrast americans (inluding the ship's captain, NSA, the president and his cabinet) had vastly different POV

http://www.ussliberty.org/supporters.htm


very similiar to the downing of Iran Air Flight 655
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
 
The Israelis need to calm down about with all of their crazy attacks (including the Liberty). A little more caution and a little less zeal might save a few lives in the long run. "Acting recklessly and without due care" is bound to happen sometimes though I suppose. Doesn't bring anybody back though...;(
 
well what did you expect from israel? in contrast americans (inluding the ship's captain, NSA, the president and his cabinet) had vastly different POV

http://www.ussliberty.org/supporters.htm

I dont read any of that on Wiki, and one of the quotes i made was from official US investigations.
Officially its still an accident.

very similiar to the downing of Iran Air Flight 655
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Are you seriously implying all of this were deliberate acts? Israel would deliberatly shoot at its closest ally for no apparant reason?
 
I dont read any of that on Wiki, and one of the quotes i made was from official US investigations.
Officially its still an accident.

of course it is, cant have the deaths of 34 americans get in the way of friendly relations right? and no the US never accepted Israel's explanation:

"Though the United States never officially accepted the Israeli explanation, it agreed to accept indemnities of $13 million, for damage and casualties."

and most of the american investigations concluded that it was deliberate:

wiki said:
"The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. Each evening, after hearing testimony all day, we often spoke our private thoughts concerning what we had seen and heard. I recall Admiral Kidd repeatedly referring to the Israeli forces responsible for the attack as 'murderous bastards.' It was our shared belief, based on the documentary evidence and testimony we received first hand, that the Israeli attack was planned and deliberate, and could not possibly have been an accident."



Are you seriously implying all of this were deliberate acts? Israel would deliberatly shoot at its closest ally for no apparant reason?

the liberty was fired upon in international waters for over 45 minutes ..how can you repeatedly fire on the same target and then claim it's a mistake?
 
Thats strange, thats a different story than what i'm reading on wiki:

At about 2 p.m. the Liberty was attacked by several IAF aircraft, possibly two or three Mirage IIIs, carrying cannon and rockets, followed by Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm. After a series of passes an Israeli pilot, who wondered why the Liberty had not returned fire, made a close pass and noted that the ship had Western (not Arabic) lettering. Rabin immediately feared that the ship was Soviet, ordered the planes and a three torpedo boat squadron, which had been ordered into the area, to withhold fire pending positive identification of the ship, and sent in two helicopters to search for survivors. However, although the order was recorded in the ship's log, the commander of the torpedo boat squadron claimed never to have received it.[3]
About twenty minutes after the aircraft attack, the ship was approached by three torpedo boats bearing Israeli flags and identification signs. Initially, McGonagle, who perceived that the torpedo boats "were approaching the ship in a torpedo launch attitude,"[1] ordered a machine gun to engage the boats. After recognizing the Israeli standard and seeing apparent Morse code signalling attempts by one of the boats (but being unable to see what was being sent, due to the smoke of the fire started by the earlier aircraft attack), McGonagle gave the order to cease fire. This order was apparently misunderstood in the confusion, and two heavy machine guns opened fire. Subsequently, the Israeli boats responded with fire and launched at least two torpedoes at Liberty (five according to the 1982 IDF History Department report).

When the ship was confirmed to have been American, the torpedo boats returned to offer help; it was refused by the American ship. About three hours after the attack, Israel informed the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv about the incident and provided a helicopter to fly a U.S. naval attaché to the ship.

It looks more like a cluster**** of misunderstandings and communication errors.

Several official US and Israeli investigations maintained the initially published conclusion that the event was a tragic mistake through misidentification.

I also read the CIA report, which also holds the misidentification story.

All this aside, you never did answer my question as to:

Why would Israel, when at war with several Arabic nations, all of a sudden deliberatly attack a meaningless ship of its closest ally, not gaining anything out of the attack but losing money, and setting bad blood?

On top of that, why all of a sudden abort the attack, notify the US embassy, fly in US naval officials from Tel Aviv, and send in boats to offer assistance.

It simply doesnt make sense, and perhaps thats why official reports stick to the "misidentification" story.
 
Thats strange, thats a different story than what i'm reading on wiki:



It looks more like a cluster**** of misunderstandings and communication errors.



I also read the CIA report, which also holds the misidentification story.

All this aside, you never did answer my question as to:

Why would Israel, when at war with several Arabic nations, all of a sudden deliberatly attack a meaningless ship of its closest ally, not gaining anything out of the attack but losing money, and setting bad blood?

On top of that, why all of a sudden abort the attack, notify the US embassy, fly in US naval officials from Tel Aviv, and send in boats to offer assistance.

It simply doesnt make sense, and perhaps thats why official reports stick to the "misidentification" story.

I didnt give the order I have no idea as to why they would deliberately target the ship ...and again it was in international waters and identified as a different class ship that was 4x smaller than the liberty ..if they came along side why didnt they see the flag? why didnt they see the latin characters (as opposed to arabiac that an egyptian ship would have)

btw, back on topic: details are emerging on the UN bombing in lebanon:

CNN said:
According to diplomats familiar with the UN's initial report into the incident, the post in the town of Khiam was hit by precision-guided munition, says the BBC's Paul Adams in Jerusalem.

he report says there was fierce fighting in the area for about six hours before the post was hit, during which time UN personnel contacted the Israel military 10 times, urging them to stop firing.

The Irish foreign ministry said one of its officers in the UN's Unifil peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, placed six warning calls to the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) prior to the attack.

"On six separate occasions he was in contact with the Israelis to warn them that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff in South Lebanon," Reuters news agency quoted an unnamed foreign office spokesman as saying.

"He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'," the spokesman said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5216230.stm
 
They ****ing killed a finn. The ****ing US-backed bastards.
 
I didnt give the order I have no idea as to why they would deliberately target the ship ...and again it was in international waters and identified as a different class ship that was 4x smaller than the liberty ..if they came along side why didnt they see the flag? why didnt they see the latin characters (as opposed to arabiac that an egyptian ship would have)

Because the Mirages didnt make the close flyby until later on, they aborted the attack, then Israeli boats came in to identify the ship as American (as in the part i quoted, did you read that at all?).
It also still doesnt explain Israel's response to the matter, which requires explanation... if you're challenging official investigations by US and Israel.

Those things you've brought up have explanations, you can read them on the Wiki article, i dont feel like continiously copy-pasting that stuff.

Fact remains, officially it has been explained by both sides as a mistaken identity story, everything else is "theory".
 
I didnt give the order I have no idea as to why they would deliberately target the ship ...and again it was in international waters and identified as a different class ship that was 4x smaller than the liberty ..if they came along side why didnt they see the flag? why didnt they see the latin characters (as opposed to arabiac that an egyptian ship would have)
LOL STERN...

"arabiac" numbers... LOL. see egyptian rocket launcher 'Assiut' (which sunk an Israeli vessel prior):

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/397/assiut.jpg... here's another:

http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/evidence/mapsphotos/elquher.gif

and here is a saudi ship (the Al Riyadh) which again shows that just because a race looks different than you, doesnt mean they use different lettering on their ships

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/al_riyadh/images/AlRiyadh_1.jpg

notice there's no flag on that 1st one? notice how the flag on the 2nd one is so small that no pilot could make that out doing a flyby? notice the numbers arent in "arabiac" they are in "english"?
 
Back on topic with the dead UN observers. I found this worth reading.

Harry Bloom, eastern vice-president of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Association, spent a year in the early 1970s patrolling the exact terrain where Hess-von Kruedener served.

"It's rocky, it's hilly, it's dangerous," Bloom said. "The area has always been dangerous for travellers."

Bloom, now retired at 66, said he wasn't surprised by news that an Israeli bomb had hit the post — and he doesn't believe it was an accident.

"I agree with (UN Secretary General) Kofi Annan's comment that it seemed to be an intentional hit. It would have to be. The outposts are so well-identified with blue and white paint and flags. A pilot cannot mistake that outpost for anything else."

Bloom described repeated "altercations" with Israeli forces when he was stationed there.

"They would fire from behind us, knowing that returned fire would land in our outpost. So to me, it's not a surprise. Not at all."

He also explained why he thought Israel would attack unarmed UN observers.

"The UN is no great friend as far as the Israelis are concerned," Bloom said in an interview from his home in Orleans, Ont., east of Ottawa.

"When the Israelis do anything on that ceasefire line, the UN is there. The Israelis don't necessarily like someone watching them."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

U.N. observers in Lebanon telephoned the Israeli military 10 times in six hours to ask it to stop shelling near their position before an attack killed four observers and sparked international anger with Israel, U.N. officials said Wednesday.

The U.N. observation post near Khiam came under close Israeli fire 21 times Tuesday _ including 12 hits within 100 yards and five direct hits from 1:20 p.m. until the peacekeepers' post was destroyed at 7:30 p.m., Jane Lute, assistant secretary-general for peacekeeping, told the U.N. Security Council in New York.

U.N. officials said Hezbollah militants had been operating in the area of the post near the eastern end of the border with Israel, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.

"We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away shielding themselves near U.N. workers and civilians," U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said. "That's why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened."

Israeli officials had told the United Nations that the bombing around the base was part of an "an aerial preparation for a ground operation," said the senior official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Officials in the outpost called the Israeli army 10 times during those six hours, and each time an army official promised to have the bombing stopped, according to a preliminary U.N. report on the incident, which was shown to an Associated Press reporter on Wednesday.

Once it became clear those pleas were being ignored, the force's commander sought the involvement of top officials in New York, a senior U.N. official in New York said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation of the incident was not yet complete.

U.N. Deputy Secretary-General Mark Malloch Brown and Lute herself then made several calls to Israel's U.N. mission "reiterating these protests and calling for an abatement of the shelling," Lute said.

During the shelling, the observers took refuge in a bomb shelter designed to withstand a strike by a 155mm artillery shell, U.N. officials said. The bunker collapsed in the attack, and the extent of the damage suggests it was hit with a large bomb, said Brig. Gen. J.P. Nehra, the deputy force commander for the U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon known as UNIFIL.

"We can only say the destruction of the bunker was quite devastating, of the kind that aerial bombs can achieve. The ones of the very heavy variety," he said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4074514.html
 
What statement? I'm not making a proclomation here. I don't know what happened either way, obviously. I just don't think Israel is stupid enough to do something like that when the whole world is watching. Maybe they are though, I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

Maybe Isreal is so smart, that they think people will think that they're not dumb enough to bomb a UN post, so they went ahead and bombed it.
 
LOL STERN...

"arabiac" numbers... LOL. see egyptian rocket launcher 'Assiut' (which sunk an Israeli vessel prior):

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/397/assiut.jpg... here's another:

http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/evidence/mapsphotos/elquher.gif

and here is a saudi ship (the Al Riyadh) which again shows that just because a race looks different than you, doesnt mean they use different lettering on their ships

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/al_riyadh/images/AlRiyadh_1.jpg

notice there's no flag on that 1st one? notice how the flag on the 2nd one is so small that no pilot could make that out doing a flyby? notice the numbers arent in "arabiac" they are in "english"?

wiki said:
After a series of passes an Israeli pilot, who wondered why the Liberty had not returned fire, made a close pass and noted that the ship had Western (not Arabic) lettering

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

:upstare: foot meet mouth





...oh and hey you caught a typo, good for you :dozey:
 
@Stern
Yes, and as soon as they did the low flyby, and noticed it was American, they broke off the attack, and called in boats to help, and flew in American Naval officials from Tel Aviv, but hey, who cares about the details. :)

Ontopic:
Yes, Israel does not want the UN "to see" they were bombing Lebanon (while we can see it live on TV) so Israel bombs them, hoping nobody will notice :)

Next up: Israel bombs CNN :)
 
@Stern
Yes, and as soon as they did the low flyby, and noticed it was American, they broke off the attack, and called in boats to help, and flew in American Naval officials from Tel Aviv, but hey, who cares about the details. :)

yes details:

they flew by on 2 separate occasions; before the attack:


Answers.com said:
During the morning of the attack, early June 8, the ship was flown over by several Israeli Air Force (IAF) aircraft. Their exact number and type is disputed; at least one was a Nord Noratlas "flying boxcar" (claimed by the survivors and confirmed by Israel); a photograph presents a C-47 Dakota and other reports speak about Mirage III jet fighters. At least some of those flybys were from a close range. In fact, at 6:00 a.m. Sinai (GMT +2) time that morning, Israel confirmed that a Nord Noratlas identified the ship as the USS Liberty. Many Liberty crewmen gave testimony that one of the aircraft flew so close to Liberty that its propellers rattled the deck plating of the ship, and the pilots waved to the crew of the Liberty, and the crewmen waved back.


and during the attack, not after the attack as you suggest:

Answers.com said:
At about 2 p.m., Liberty was attacked by several IAF aircraft, possibly two or three Mirage IIIs, carrying cannon and rockets, followed by Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm.

for the record I'm not disputing that it could have been an accident, There are certainly those who would argue that it's not. The US government was never satisfied with the findings of the inquiries ..now can we leave it at that and move on to the bombing of the UN post?



Ontopic:
Yes, Israel does not want the UN "to see" they were bombing Lebanon (while we can see it live on TV) so Israel bombs them, hoping nobody will notice :)

Next up: Israel bombs CNN :)

instead of offering up snide remarks perhaps you could leave it at "I'll wait for the investigation"; there's obviously enough of a concern if the UN accuses israel of deliberate attacks


BBC said:
According to diplomats familiar with the UN's initial report into the incident, the post in the town of Khiam was hit by precision-guided munition

The report says there was fierce fighting in the area for about six hours before the post was hit, during which time UN personnel contacted the Israel military 10 times, urging them to stop firing....

....A preliminary UN report said 17 bombardments landed within one kilometre of the post, and 12 artillery rounds hit within 150 metres of the structure - four of them being direct hits.

After this, the post was hit by a precision-guided weapon from an Israeli aircraft.

The Irish foreign ministry said one of its officers in the UN's Unifil peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, placed six warning calls to the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) prior to the attack.

"On six separate occasions he was in contact with the Israelis to warn them that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff in South Lebanon," Reuters news agency quoted an unnamed foreign office spokesman as saying.

"He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'," the spokesman said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5216230.stm
 
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