7 Hours?!

[Polaris]

I believe that the Combine controlled Xen but in the 7-hours war the Vortigaunts fought with huans, no other Xenians took part.

But in HL1 G-man said: The borderworld Xen is our control for a time of being....

 

[Haze]

Well, for a start the EMP field would not disable everything, military backup systems and those used in hospitals have a led shielded core which is imune to EMP.
Also, as I said earlier, the magnum is better than the pistol. You are comparing the plasma rifle to the magnum, thats not fair.

Anyway, I have replayed Black Mesa East and the only thing that I could find was the '7 hour war' and the 'invasion' newspaper cuttings.

 

[zodiak]

Also, as I said earlier, the magnum is better than the pistol. You are comparing the plasma rifle to the magnum, thats not fair.

I fail to see the point how it helps that a magnum is better then a pistol when your being attacked by striders and gunships. Its not like a strider is going to attack you with a pistol.

 

[Laivasse]

As stated previously, lots of metrocops have crappy manmade pistols because the Combine's Earth operation is in a state of low activity and it's cheap and easy to kit them out with crap.

The pistol is *manmade* and says nothing about Combine technology. The Combine technology is the soldier wielding the pistol (and they weren't developed until after the 7 hour war).

 

[Angry Lawyer]

But in HL1 G-man said: The borderworld Xen is our control for a time of being....

"Control" doesn't always mean military control.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Haze]

Good point, sorry about the pistol thing I just wanted to get that of my chest xD

well, if the combine are so tough, why did they leave crap forces (like overwatch) to deal with the humans when they know Gordon Freeman is still out there and managed to overthrow Xens alien infestation in Black Mesa and killed countless military soldiers by himself (with 1 or 2 barneys)?

Also, they should know that there are thousends of rebels out there, they managed to do a lot in the week gordan was away, without any help at all!

 

[Laivasse]

Good point, sorry about the pistol thing I just wanted to get that of my chest xD

well, if the combine are so tough, why did they leave crap forces (like overwatch) to deal with the humans when they know Gordon Freeman is still out there and managed to overthrow Xens alien infestation in Black Mesa and killed countless military soldiers by himself (with 1 or 2 barneys)?

Also, they should know that there are thousends of rebels out there, they managed to do a lot in the week gordan was away, without any help at all!

Hmm, well the Overwatch had never really been tested so technically noone knew how good or crap they were. In Nova Prospekt you hear Breen threatening the Overwatch with the prospect of being discarded. That was precisely because they were all being butchered by one man, and the Combine as a whole were beginning to think "Hmm, maybe we should have just stuck with our striders..."

Once the situation begins to hot up, the Combine begin to break out their proper transhuman experiments, the Overwatch and Combine Elite, as opposed to their metrocop caretakers (who are still transhuman, to my mind), but as far the Combine are concerned, it's still only one man they're fighting so there's no need to go crazy. However, they never anticipated the destruction of the Nova Prospekt portal, or Freeman's reputation and that it would spark a wider uprising among the humans around City 17.

Therefore, the reason the resistance are able to do so much in City 17 in one week is precisely because the Combine got caught napping. It seemed obvious to me, however, that they were winding up for a clampdown that would smash the resistance utterly. Let's face it, the resistance are dropping like flies towards the end, yet the Combine still have more forces held back inside the citadel than they have fighting outside.

Imagine a scene where every enemy you see inside the citadel is pitted against every human in the game at the same time. Then drop a few more citadels on top of the humans and break out some suppressors at the same time, and you'll get an idea of what the 7 hour war must have been like.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, Breen did save humanity, in his own way. Rather than be absorbed by the Combine, and twisted into weird and wonderful shapes, Humans were kept relatively intact, at Breen's request (albeit, with a few modifications). It's survival for humanity, albeit a twisted one.

If you think about it, if Breen hadn't thrown in the towel, the Combine could have just kept coming, and completely absorbed Earth, leaving nothing but an airless rock. So it's Breen's fault that Overwatch forces are pants.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Laivasse]

Well, Breen did save humanity, in his own way. Rather than be absorbed by the Combine, and twisted into weird and wonderful shapes, Humans were kept relatively intact, at Breen's request (albeit, with a few modifications). It's survival for humanity, albeit a twisted one.

If you think about it, if Breen hadn't thrown in the towel, the Combine could have just kept coming, and completely absorbed Earth, leaving nothing but an airless rock. So it's Breen's fault that Overwatch forces are pants.

-Angry Lawyer

Hmm, in my view, the assimilation of humanity into the Combine as another type of shock troop was the very reason that they came to Earth in the first place. Quite why they've enslaved humanity instead of just assimilate us and go on their way is puzzling to me. Marc Laidlaw himself says it's contrary to the typical M.O of the Combine (apparently humanity is the first race they've enslaved as opposed to just assimilated). Perhaps they figure there might be something to be learned from humanity first. Or perhaps they were so unimpressed by humanity that they've kept us alive as a project on the back burner, waiting for an opportunity to test the efficiency of the Transhumans but not yet prepared to commit to large-scale assimilation.

Either way, it seems that your typical boiler-suited civilian is set for the chop, with Breen or without him. Breen just facilitates control of the populace by dressing up the truth in easier-to-swallow lies, as far as I can see.

 

[Laivasse]

BTW I think the Overwatch forces are pretty cool actually :farmer: You can dwell on the fact that they take way less damage than npcs, but that's a game balance issue. Just pretend you don't see your allies getting shot.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, Breen did save humanity, in his own way. Rather than be absorbed by the Combine, and twisted into weird and wonderful shapes, Humans were kept relatively intact, at Breen's request (albeit, with a few modifications). It's survival for humanity, albeit a twisted one.

If you think about it, if Breen hadn't thrown in the towel, the Combine could have just kept coming, and completely absorbed Earth, leaving nothing but an airless rock. So it's Breen's fault that Overwatch forces are pants.

-Angry Lawyer

He did do a semi good deed, but ultimatley it was more of a bid for power and knowledge don't you think?

Alot of people say he cares about humanity, but that "rabble" is mearly an excuse to reach the stars, an excuse to delve deep into the depths of the universe...

Besides Breen, i thought you said that we were insuffient and dirty

(Not directed at you Lawyer )

 

[DeusExMachina]

And lets not forget making a game where its impossible to reach the end would've been stupid...

 

[Laivasse]

He did do a semi good deed, but ultimatley it was more of a bid for power and knowledge don't you think?

Definitely a bid for power and knowledge, and I'm not even sure it can be considered a semi-good deed. Someone would have brokered a surrender for us eventually, and who's to say that Breen didn't leap at the chance in order to get himself in with the new bosses.

Judging from his speech at Nova Prospekt, all of humanity is either due for extermination or Combination. His intervention really hasn't made the blindest bit of difference to anyone's fate but his.

 

[Haze]

Hmm, well he is an idiot, I have no idea why the combine would give him a pent house office in their citidel. I think its confusing though, at the start of the game players would not think aliens had taken over since Breen is a human. Even when I saw the earth surrenders stuff I did not get it with Breen until later.

 

[Black Ops4]

In my opinion, the Vortigaunts kept to themselves. They hadn't found a reason to ally with them yet. Only once the Combine appear did they realise that everyone was in trouble.

-Angry Lawyer

I only thought that the Vortigaunts would have been used by the Combine because in HL1 they are known as alien 'slaves' and they have a restraint around their neck and arms, almost like the Combine police in HL2 who are mostly human. Perhaps there is some sort of neural restraint underneath those masks. (though Barney was wearing one at one time - I guess he could have taken the inside of the mask apart)

Another reason for me to believe that Vortigaunts were present in the 7 hour war is the fact that there are so many Vortigaunts on Earth in HL2.

It is still a possibility that they may have fought alongside humans from the start. Perhaps the Combine warped them in during the portal storms but then the Vortigaunts were free after Nihilanth was killed so they were not under Combine control.

The Combine may have not had anything to do with Nihilanth at all, its all just speculation.

Darn it Valve, you must enjoy watching us suffer while trying to piece together this puzzle. Problem is we don't have many of the pieces yet.

 

[15357]

I only thought that the Vortigaunts would have been used by the Combine because in HL1 they are known as alien 'slaves' and they have a restraint around their neck and arms, almost like the Combine police in HL2 who are mostly human. Perhaps there is some sort of neural restraint underneath those masks. (though Barney was wearing one at one time - I guess he could have taken the inside of the mask apart)

Another reason for me to believe that Vortigaunts were present in the 7 hour war is the fact that there are so many Vortigaunts on Earth in HL2.

It is still a possibility that they may have fought alongside humans from the start. Perhaps the Combine warped them in during the portal storms but then the Vortigaunts were free after Nihilanth was killed so they were not under Combine control.

The Combine may have not had anything to do with Nihilanth at all, its all just speculation.

Darn it Valve, you must enjoy watching us suffer while trying to piece together this puzzle. Problem is we don't have many of the pieces yet.

do we even have 1 whole piece?

i would say 1/19 or 0.13 piece

 

[Haze]

I would say that we have about 20% of the puzzle, all we have to do is put that together and predict the rest of the picture.

Hopefully all will be revealed in HL3, but I suspect they will wait until 4 or even 5 before telling us everything.

 

[Asknoone]

Definitely a bid for power and knowledge, and I'm not even sure it can be considered a semi-good deed. Someone would have brokered a surrender for us eventually, and who's to say that Breen didn't leap at the chance in order to get himself in with the new bosses.

Judging from his speech at Nova Prospekt, all of humanity is either due for extermination or Combination. His intervention really hasn't made the blindest bit of difference to anyone's fate but his.

Well said, he doesn't at all give a toss. Ultimatley the planet is going to be stripped and were going to be augmented into the combine war machine - further enhancing thier power in bringing more worlds to thier knees. I'd rather be dead. Nice one Breen :|

 

[Coolhead2100]

Well, Breen did save humanity, in his own way. Rather than be absorbed by the Combine, and twisted into weird and wonderful shapes, Humans were kept relatively intact, at Breen's request (albeit, with a few modifications). It's survival for humanity, albeit a twisted one.

If you think about it, if Breen hadn't thrown in the towel, the Combine could have just kept coming, and completely absorbed Earth, leaving nothing but an airless rock. So it's Breen's fault that Overwatch forces are pants.

-Angry Lawyer

Suddenly Breen becomes the hero, and your are the baby killer, fighting the very system that kept your people alive... speaking for the resistance.

Okay, I don't completely agree with what I just said above, but in a way it is true. Breen is in a way a savior. As previously stated the Combine could very easily annihilated the human race. When you are inside the citadel you see an entire military, comparable to size of all of the worlds militaries combined, inside one citadel. Imagine having this army times a thousand, or however many citadels there are. (Most likely, at least 17, considering that you are in City 17... which contains a citadel.)

As for the whole weapon thing, take this situation. In Iraq we arm the military / police units with AK 47's even though we ourselves use the much more efficient, yet more expensive M16 / M4 weapon systems. Why give them Ak 47's you say? Because it is much cheaper. I've heard that Ak 47's sell for $7 on the streets of Afghanistan. Likewise, you can find an AR 15 here in America for somewhere in the thousand dollar range. (Don't quote me on that, I am not a weapons price expert.) The pulse rifle is obviously not human technology, as it greatly resembles the materials which can be seen on the Striders and Gunships.

 

[phatman]

Omg, combine soldiers are humans.


And the real combine invaded earth, and shot the citidel down.

And blew up parts up the world.

Plus they were not using a mp7 till the started living on earth, ya moron...Plus its JUST A GAME!!!!

And...they probally used the gargs and the synths

 

[Agent G-Man]

What? I'm confused and trying to understand what you just said.

 

[Black Ops4]

do we even have 1 whole piece?

i would say 1/19 or 0.13 piece

There aren't actual 'pieces', its more a figure of speach. We have some information, which we can piece together like a jigsaw puzzle to find new things or make it easier to guess what is in the gaps.

Okay, I don't completely agree with what I just said above, but in a way it is true. Breen is in a way a savior. As previously stated the Combine could very easily annihilated the human race.

I agree that Breen was a savior, but not intentionally.

If the combine wanted to annihilate humanity they would have, wether Breen offered to surrender or not. The Combine are cruel, they would have wiped us out entirely if they didn't want to use us.

He did, however, save a lot of people and maybe even Earth by slowing down the fighting until Gordon arrived. If there never was a surrender Earth would probably be in a much worse state.

 

[15357]

There aren't actual 'pieces', its more a figure of speach. We have some information, which we can piece together like a jigsaw puzzle to find new things or make it easier to guess what is in the gaps.

ohh, i seem to learn a few things everyday!

 

[Haze]

In Iraq we arm the military / police units with AK 47's even though we ourselves use the much more efficient, yet more expensive M16 / M4 weapon systems. Why give them Ak 47's you say? Because it is much cheaper.

We arm ourselves with the M16s becouse, yes, they are better, but also becouse an AK-47 is an illegle weapon for police/military to use within the United States.
In Iraq they are not so we take advantige of the cheaper prices.

Oh and back on subject: I know the Pulse Rifle is combine, but if your target is standing still the crosbow is a better option , if you are good anough, you can use it on moving targets, just calculate there speed and distance.

I still think 7 hours is a short time, mabey they could overpower us in that time but it would take a lot longer to kill of all the last parts of the human military who were still fighting.
I guess Breen officialy surrendered but it wouldnt stop everyone, the war probably went on for a week after trying to finishing of the people who were oposed to the surrender

 

[Combine Elite]

Seven Hours

In seven hours you might just might get all the Governments of Earth to agree the sky is blue, let alone come up with a global plan of defence and or offence. Face it petty pecking orders would have to be established a 'Coalition of the willing' would have to be formed and a UN resolution Passed before Earth could legally engage the Combine. Humans have pride and emotion and do not soon forgive wrongs done , no matter the crisis they are faced with. The Combine on the other hand well can you say for sure aliens think like us ? Or the have Borders and UN's and all that stuff we go through just to bring 'sanctions' against an agressor. I would suggest rather than mount a defence the human Governments when faced with the Combine tried to negotiate as Washington/London/Paris and New York burned. Some tried to fight and probably perished. However overall thae UN had not even finished its debate on sanctioning the agressor Combine when Breen gave it all up and convinced the governments to surrender. It was lost long before the humans even started. Added with the fact the Combine could teleport at will to whereever they wanted and yes Synths are tough buggers. IMO seven hours would be stretching it.

 

[Laivasse]

Suddenly Breen becomes the hero, and your are the baby killer, fighting the very system that kept your people alive... speaking for the resistance.

Okay, I don't completely agree with what I just said above, but in a way it is true. Breen is in a way a savior. As previously stated the Combine could very easily annihilated the human race. When you are inside the citadel you see an entire military, comparable to size of all of the worlds militaries combined, inside one citadel. Imagine having this army times a thousand, or however many citadels there are. (Most likely, at least 17, considering that you are in City 17... which contains a citadel.)

As for the whole weapon thing, take this situation. In Iraq we arm the military / police units with AK 47's even though we ourselves use the much more efficient, yet more expensive M16 / M4 weapon systems. Why give them Ak 47's you say? Because it is much cheaper. I've heard that Ak 47's sell for $7 on the streets of Afghanistan. Likewise, you can find an AR 15 here in America for somewhere in the thousand dollar range. (Don't quote me on that, I am not a weapons price expert.) The pulse rifle is obviously not human technology, as it greatly resembles the materials which can be seen on the Striders and Gunships.

Fully agreed. With the Breen thing - well it's complicated isn't it? By fighting the Combine, Gordon impels them to attack back. Humanity has already proved that it hasn't got a monkey in a mincer's chance against the Combine in a straight out fight, so a lot of what Breen says to Gordon at the end has a ring of truth.

However...what's the alternative? Humanity's due for the chop - Breen knows this, and so he also knows that to blame Gordon for the Combine retribution is pure bs.

As one of the Vortigaunts says "let this end in total victory, or our own extinction...no further compromise will we accept" or something, maybe.

In seven hours you might just might get all the Governments of Earth to agree the sky is blue, let alone come up with a global plan of defence and or offence. Face it petty pecking orders would have to be established a 'Coalition of the willing' would have to be formed and a UN resolution Passed before Earth could legally engage the Combine. Humans have pride and emotion and do not soon forgive wrongs done , no matter the crisis they are faced with. The Combine on the other hand well can you say for sure aliens think like us ? Or the have Borders and UN's and all that stuff we go through just to bring 'sanctions' against an agressor. I would suggest rather than mount a defence the human Governments when faced with the Combine tried to negotiate as Washington/London/Paris and New York burned. Some tried to fight and probably perished. However overall thae UN had not even finished its debate on sanctioning the agressor Combine when Breen gave it all up and convinced the governments to surrender. It was lost long before the humans even started. Added with the fact the Combine could teleport at will to whereever they wanted and yes Synths are tough buggers. IMO seven hours would be stretching it.

Word to that. I notice the barely concealed sideswipe at the more liberal side of the Iraq debate :dozey: but it's true that humanity wouldn't have time to scratch its collective head in 7 hours. Combine comes in striders blazing, we die, simple.

 

[Combine Elite]

Yea 7 hours is almost heroic considering. Like I said stretching it a tad.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

In a way, you can think of Breen as a hero in the same way as the character Thomas Covenant. They ARE in it only for themselves, but they just end up helping people on the way.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Combine Elite]

I agree that his actions in the end could been seen as somewhat heroic. Yet those who live with the Power Agenda usually fall to the lesser and pure agenda of Freedom. However if you look at it , how many lives did Breen save by selling out ? Probably millions. What we see in HL2 is a tired, demoralized and somewhat disorganised 'resistance' that finds a rally point in the reappearance of a legend in Dr. Freeman. Imagine the burden that comes with that ? He has no choice but to perform. Yet towards the end I actually believe his agenda becomes dual in that he purely goes after Alyx and her father. Some would say love, I would say loyalty and a sense of family. The only family at this point in the HalfLife Universe he has. G-Man has become a keeper and Gordon knows he is on a leash.

I think in HalfLife3 Alyx may be used as a 'carrot on a string' to have Gordon 'perform' again. I see G-Man getting a .45 in the side of the head if Freeman can manage it. A hero for all time will not be led around on a leash. Unfortunately therein lies the irony. G-man is a source of the familiar and Alyx and Dr. Vance are somewhat family. Both are or maybe a source of comfort. Will be interesting to see this relationship (s) unfold. I would suggest that Alyx is whereever Gordon is at the moment.

 

[Asknoone]

In a way, you can think of Breen as a hero in the same way as the character Thomas Covenant. They ARE in it only for themselves, but they just end up helping people on the way.

-Angry Lawyer

Well lets give him a medal. What should we engrave it with? Biggest Saviour of the year (Or saviour of the human race, wallace breen -- has a nice catch dont you think?)

Oh what the hell, its already engraved. Got the vorts to do it. It reads: Dr Wallace Breen, biggest retard in the near extinct human race.

Congrats Breen ol' boy, you sold out the human race.





/insert sarcasm here.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, Thomas Covenant's one of my book heroes, because he eventually redeems himself.

Just think outside of the box for a moment. What if, when he was offering transcendence from our puny mortal existances, he actually meant it, and the Combine actually were preparing us for the big, wide Universe?

I wouldn't put it past Laidlaw to spring something as crazy as that on us - Laidlaw's a clever man. Like Gabe said - 'Both sides are wrong, but one is more wrong than the other'. What if it is *our* side that's wrong?
It'd make for some crazy sequels.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Combine Elite]

Well, Thomas Covenant's one of my book heroes, because he eventually redeems himself.

Just think outside of the box for a moment. What if, when he was offering transcendence from our puny mortal existances, he actually meant it, and the Combine actually were preparing us for the big, wide Universe?

I wouldn't put it past Laidlaw to spring something as crazy as that on us - Laidlaw's a clever man. Like Gabe said - 'Both sides are wrong, but one is more wrong than the other'. What if it is *our* side that's wrong?
It'd make for some crazy sequels.

-Angry Lawyer

Really outside the box. G-Man is a agent for the real hidden enemy ? And the Combine and human collaborators are in reality working for the good of human kind ? Now that would be a twist Freeman is a insurgent. And the resistance is reduced to a terrorist group. Although intriguing I think it might be too far outside the box. But like you said....

 

[Patriarch]

The 7 hour war would make for one hell of an expanion pack for Half Life 2 rather than the rumoured Alyx one.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, Thomas Covenant's one of my book heroes, because he eventually redeems himself.

Just think outside of the box for a moment. What if, when he was offering transcendence from our puny mortal existances, he actually meant it, and the Combine actually were preparing us for the big, wide Universe?

I wouldn't put it past Laidlaw to spring something as crazy as that on us - Laidlaw's a clever man. Like Gabe said - 'Both sides are wrong, but one is more wrong than the other'. What if it is *our* side that's wrong?
It'd make for some crazy sequels.

-Angry Lawyer

So were giving him the medal...?

 

[Combine Elite]

So were giving him the medal...?

Yes lets..... All kidding aside. NO. And I agree the seven hours war should be a expansion pack maybe from Barney's point of view. Should start where HalfLife ended. :naughty:

 

[Flyingdebris]

I could easily see earth getting its collective ass kicked in 7 hours


Take a look around your town. When a 1 mile tall building pops into the middle of your city and metal bug things with lasers come pouring out of it killing everything. how would you stop it?

Imagine this happening everywhere at once. With the number of citadels popping up, you have more targets than nukes. Plus there isn't even any clear target to attack.. When magor cities inside your country and out are being mowed down by combine shcok troops who do you nuke? Oops nevermind, most silos have probably been destroyed themselves or those in charge killed first. Lets not forget the combine are advanced enough to have crazy plasma stuff and have mastered interstellar/interdimensional travel. Its safe to say that the stuff they have is probably better than nukes.

7 hours seems right

 

[Combine Elite]

In seven hours you might just might get all the Governments of Earth to agree the sky is blue, let alone come up with a global plan of defence and or offence. Face it petty pecking orders would have to be established a 'Coalition of the willing' would have to be formed and a UN resolution Passed before Earth could legally engage the Combine. Humans have pride and emotion and do not soon forgive wrongs done , no matter the crisis they are faced with. The Combine on the other hand well can you say for sure aliens think like us ? Or the have Borders and UN's and all that stuff we go through just to bring 'sanctions' against an agressor. I would suggest rather than mount a defence the human Governments when faced with the Combine tried to negotiate as Washington/London/Paris and New York burned. Some tried to fight and probably perished. However overall thae UN had not even finished its debate on sanctioning the agressor Combine when Breen gave it all up and convinced the governments to surrender. It was lost long before the humans even started. Added with the fact the Combine could teleport at will to whereever they wanted and yes Synths are tough buggers. IMO seven hours would be stretching it.

Yup let the ass kicking begin !!!!

 

[ramdomthought]

hey everyone, i think most of us are forgetting that the humans invaded xen at the end of hl. that means the 7 hour war started at a diffrent time before hl2

 

[Arathiel]

people seem to assume that earth's armies were actually mobilized to fight when the combine invaded... that's unrealistic. It takes time for any war machine to get combat ready... it's not like all soldiers sleep next to a loaded M16, in a fueled M1-A1 tank. No... reserves have to be called in, soldiers need to get weapons from armories, jets and tanks need to be fueled and prepped, calls need to be made, chains of command established, etc. Now imagine trying to go from 0 to WAR as you're facing an overwhelming multidirectional invasion with absolutely no warning, and with large sections of the chain of command instaneously taken out by the citadels appearing. Not going to happen. Most likely scenario: the world's armies were scattered, uncoordinated, hastily equipped, fighting like cornered rats instead of actual fighting forces. The war was probably over before any of the armies had reached anything close to actual combat readiness. Not surprising it was over so fast.

think of it this way: there are two midievel knights fighting. Except, one is ready to go, and the other has to put on his plate armor while the first has already begun attacking him. Gonna be a pretty quick fight.

.02

 

[Sloth]

That is true...
but how are the rebels in HL2 so well equipt (sp?)