A Holiday Message from Ricky Gervais: Why I’m An Atheist

[Naph]

You guys all make a cute couple.

You believe in polygamy?
Tell me more.

 

[morgs]

A quote from ricky's blog:

The Wall Street Journal piece has gone a bit mental. I'll hang out here over the Christmas period, in a country that is 44% atheist. America is considerably less but I'm working on it. Leave it with me.

I wish WSJ hadn't stuck that title on it. "A Holiday Message" sounds unnecessarily provocative. It wasn't meant to be. They asked me to write an essay and one of the topics was 'Why I'm an Atheist'. It was just a personal account to be honest. Just for the record, I'm not an atheist solely because of my brother saying, "do you believe in God?" and my mum getting worried. That was simply the catalyst that made me question years of just accepting things that adults had fed me. That's what kids do. They learn from adults. And they accept it. That's why I believed in Santa Clause till I was 8 too. If that myth was constantly reinforced a lot of people would believe that into and throughout adulthood as well. It would also be acceptable. But then people who believed in the easter bunny would kill some of the people who believed in Santa then the Toothy Farians would kick off and there would be lots of wars. It's a good job we don't believe such rubbish after about 8 years old isn't it?

 

[Alan00000]

No belief in God= Hell if the bible is true.
Belief in God Put your trust in him = Eternal life.

Walk by faith not by site lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNLvXllvvsA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Ll2WPFxyk&NR=1

 

[VirusType2]

If you don't go to sleep, Santa won't bring you presents either.

See how they manipulated their populations? 1 guy in power cannot keep 100,000 of his angry, hungry, poor citizens at bay any other way.

 

[morgs]

like in The Book of Eli, how

Spoiler

Gary Oldmans character was desperate to secure the last remaining bible so that he could use it to control the people and get them to follow him

 

[Vegeta897]

I sure loved that movie.

 

[Raziaar]

"No No No... I have doubts on both uhh... science and religion. I have to investigate that..."

5 minutes later.

"Oh sorry, I take back what I said before. I did some research..."

At least that's what I imagine he'd be thinking if he actually went home and did any research.

 

[Jintor]

No belief in God= Hell if the bible is true.
Belief in God Put your trust in him = Eternal life.

Walk by faith not by site lol

You're seriously pulling Pascal's Wager on us?

 

[Maestro]

This thread is a cluster**** and I am beginning to question why the mods haven't closed it.

 

[Solaris]

Would those of you who don't enjoy threads like these please stay out of it. These threads are interesting and as many ex-religious people here an attest, effective too.

 

[Vegeta897]

Yeah, I can see that everyone in here is enjoying themselves.

 

[Raziaar]

Would those of you who don't enjoy threads like these please stay out of it. These threads are interesting and as many ex-religious people here an attest, effective too.

They're not particularly effective. People have to make the decisions for themselves. It's not like they're really separated from the views that people speak in these threads... it's just that they have to open themselves up and examine their own beliefs.

It's what I did. Been involved in craploads of religious arguments in the past on these forums, but I can't really chalk them up as being much of a contributing factor.

Might be for some people, but for most I think as I said it's really only themselves who can let go.

 

[Maestro]

Would those of you who don't enjoy threads like these please stay out of it. These threads are interesting and as many ex-religious people here an attest, effective too.

It turned into a cluster**** right around page 6, the sheer amount of vitriol pouring into this thread could be distilled to a consistency that would eat through solid steel.

 

[Wanted Bob]

In a futile attempt to comment on the original topic, that article summed up my views on religion pretty well (despite being unoriginal and really serving no purpose). Faith gives many people happiness, hope, and a sense of purpose, which I am totally fine. What really gets me is when people use it as an excuse to act superior to others based solely on irrelevant characteristics.

Also, even though this probably wont change a thing, I do feel slightly concerned for you Alan0. I understand you feel strongly about your faith but your lack of value for your life beyond what god wills is a bit disturbing.

 

[Danimal]

Never have I wanted to post this more than I do at this very moment.

I mean, do you even have to open it?

Spoiler

Okay, I'll follow your advice and not open it.

I'll just assume it's a picture saying "I am Bad^Hat and I am butt-hurt"

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, that's about right

 

[CptStern]

most of these points have been brought up in this thread

 

[Stigmata]

No belief in God= Hell if the bible is true.
Belief in God Put your trust in him = Eternal life.

Pascal's Wager is faulty because it fails to account for God's pretty wrathful opinion of false worship. If you believe in God, it's because you believe in God, not because you want to manage your odds of staying out of Hell.

 

[Maestro]

Nevermind, this thread is getting funny again.

 

[VirusType2]

Pascal's Wager is faulty because it fails to account for God's pretty wrathful opinion of false worship. If you believe in God, it's because you believe in God, not because you want to manage your odds of staying out of Hell.

Simply a way of keeping people from listening to logic that disputes a religion. AKA dissension prevention.

Religion is pathetic, it can't even withstand argument. It's made of thin glass, you can see right through it and break it down easily.

 

[TheDude]

God is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around, And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.

 

[morgs]

God is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around, And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.

Haha this got me laughing.

 

[Sheepo]

You are making this a far more emotional issue than it is. Yes, I think religion is stupid. You know a few other things I think are stupid? I'll just name a few: smoking tobacco, driving slow, dumping $20,000 in to a $500 car, or being a republican.

>I don't get emotionally attached to my beliefs
>I should treat everyone as though they're not emotionally attached to their beliefs

I don't declare war on any of these things, I don't hate anyone that does these things. But if we are having a discussion about any of this stuff I will make my opinion known to you, that's what a discussion is about. But for religious people (christians especially) they love to play the victim. It's not that I have valid reasons to think their belief system is wrong, no it can't possibly be that. It's that I want to victimize them.

Oh yes, of course. I won't pretend there aren't civil cases of religious discussion on HL2.net. There are plenty, and they may be boring, or repetitive, or futile, but at least we can say we're having an adult conversation. But in many more cases the condescension and insults are pretty much the whole conversation. You're a perfect example of this ("That's ****ing stupid" is not respectful, productive, or intelligent).

You say all religious threads end a certain way around here. Yes, they certainly do. But not in the way you think they do. What always happens is a christian finally snaps and says something in one of these threads. Some people (including myself) might laugh a little or make jokes. But that never stops the person from posting. They only stop posting once they come to a point where their position simply can't be defended any longer. But they love to use the fact some people made fun of them as a scape goat for why they are bailing on the discussion, long after they willingfully participated in that discussion. I challange you to find one religious thread with a participating christian that doesn't end that way. One thread.

So? For one thing, attacking the person instead of their position opens them up to that option. Even if you think they're using it as a get out of jail free card, if you didn't insult them to begin with they'd never have the oppurtunity to use that "scape goat" and you can discover for yourself whether they have more to say or not. And there are plenty of threads that don't end that way. Virtually all of them end with a lock or the person saying they haven't changed their mind. In neither case (or the case you gave) do I think the person has been convinced they're wrong. Faith is faith. It is by definition belief without evidence. No matter how unlikely you show it to be, you can't prove their belief impossible, and therefore your efforts will most likely be filed under "Test of faith". Now, atleast with a mature conversation there is a chance that you will actually have done some good. Maybe some evidence really struck the person, maybe there's a seed of doubt growing. But to mock a person's faith is to make a martyr out of them. They'll leave this forum with their faith completely validated by your insults and never look back.

As I said above I think republicans are stupid. I'm sure they think I'm stupid too. We can look at the conservatives here. Many of them will make fun of how liberal I am, how I must hate America. Do I cry about that and play victim? F**k no. I address it head on because I know I have a leg to stand on. And if it turns out I'm wrong then so be it, I'm wrong. Why religious people can't do the same is beyong me. You say its because religion is a highly personal thing. What a lame cop out, politics and many other things discussed here are also highly personal. Who gives a shit about how personal something is when you are posting about it anonymously on the ****ing internet?

Once again: Everyone is not you. Just because you don't mind irrelevant mockery doesn't mean it's a good way to talk to people. Just because you don't mind some one attacking something that's personal to you doesn't mean you should do it to others. And that doesn't even make sense. I don't get upset when someone insults my mother because we're in public and other people can hear him who know her. I get upset because that's my mother, and I don't like to hear others talk badly about her. Anonymity has nothing to do with it. Of course that falls under "Everyone is not like you" again. Maybe just grow up?

Something tells me that No Limit still doesn't know quite how abrasive he is, and as a result still doesn't know why people don't like him.

Pretty much this.

I agree, and Stern basically acts the same way(perhaps with less crass) but me and you don't see eye to eye on that.

Not really, he's far less hostile and direct about it. He can get annoying because he never gets off that damn soapbox, but he's pretty much harmless.

 

[No Limit]

>I don't get emotionally attached to my beliefs
>I should treat everyone as though they're not emotionally attached to their beliefs

Again, saying these are emoitional issues is a lame ass cop out. If you think I'm not sensitive enough toward your beliefs then ignore me. But the fact remains you are on a internet message board open to everyone, why you expect special treatment for a perticular issue is beyong me.

Oh yes, of course. I won't pretend there aren't civil cases of religious discussion on HL2.net. There are plenty, and they may be boring, or repetitive, or futile, but at least we can say we're having an adult conversation. But in many more cases the condescension and insults are pretty much the whole conversation. You're a perfect example of this ("That's ****ing stupid" is not respectful, productive, or intelligent).
So? For one thing, attacking the person instead of their position opens them up to that option. Even if you think they're using it as a get out of jail free card, if you didn't insult them to begin with they'd never have the oppurtunity to use that "scape goat" and you can discover for yourself whether they have more to say or not. And there are plenty of threads that don't end that way. Virtually all of them end with a lock or the person saying they haven't changed their mind. In neither case (or the case you gave) do I think the person has been convinced they're wrong. Faith is faith. It is by definition belief without evidence. No matter how unlikely you show it to be, you can't prove their belief impossible, and therefore your efforts will most likely be filed under "Test of faith". Now, atleast with a mature conversation there is a chance that you will actually have done some good. Maybe some evidence really struck the person, maybe there's a seed of doubt growing. But to mock a person's faith is to make a martyr out of them. They'll leave this forum with their faith completely validated by your insults and never look back.

They can do whatever they want. Any disucssion that you have on an internet message board about anything is subject to mocking or insults. But these insults never get called out for anything else, just on religion.

And I don't know what threads you are looking at where a religious person was having an honest adult conversation. I pay attention to these things, and it's never that they were insulted. It's that they could no longer defend their position. And finally you make it seem like all that is directed at these people are insults. No, some insults might be thrown in there and there as is always the case with most topics. But all these posts usually have substance. When people call Ridge or unozero an idiot nobody seems to mind. But call religion ****ing retarded and suddenly you're a total asshole.

Once again: Everyone is not you. Just because you don't mind irrelevant mockery doesn't mean it's a good way to talk to people. Just because you don't mind some one attacking something that's personal to you doesn't mean you should do it to others. And that doesn't even make sense. I don't get upset when someone insults my mother because we're in public and other people can hear him who know her. I get upset because that's my mother, and I don't like to hear others talk badly about her. Anonymity has nothing to do with it. Of course that falls under "Everyone is not like you" again. Maybe just grow up?

I am fully aware everyone is not me. I never asked anyone to be like me. I post what I post. The positions I hold are my own. We are on a message board where we are all free to express our views however we want to express them. If you don't like the way I express mine that's your issue. Maybe all you guys can form a club or something about how much you dislike me. Should be quite popular. But if I think you're being a whiny little bitch I will continue to point it out to you for as long as I remain here.

Not really, he's far less hostile and direct about it. He can get annoying because he never gets off that damn soapbox, but he's pretty much harmless.

lol, you guys are too much. It's like I'm in grade school again.

 

[Krynn72]

I pay attention to these things, and it's never that they were insulted. It's that they could no longer defend their position. And finally you make it seem like all that is directed at these people are insults.

Either you have a shitty attention span, or you're mis-remembering several threads. It could also be that you have no idea what an insult is, and considering your complete "f*ck that im not insulting, you stupid f*ck" sort of demeanor, it seems likely.

 

[Sheepo]

Once again you're argument is essentially: I have the right to be a dick, so it's okay if I am/other people are dicks, so it's okay if I am. We get that this is an internet forum so apparently this is where our right to express ourselves has to go hardcore or something, and I'm certainly not disputing your right to express yourself, I'm merely pointing out that the "I'M GOING TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I THINK AND HOLD NOTHING BACK AND THAT'S THAT" mentality isn't any less counter-productive here than it is in real life. Honesty is good. So is restraint and tact.

In the case of uno, generally when such members (though I don't know who Ridge is) get mocked, they're pretty damn deserving, and it's in response to the sort of senseless and idiotic language I'm talking about right now. I've seen enough of unozero to think that he's pretty much deserving of prepetual antagonism.

 

[No Limit]

I see. So as long as they deserve it then its okay?

 

[No Limit]

Either you have a shitty attention span, or you're mis-remembering several threads. It could also be that you have no idea what an insult is, and considering your complete "f*ck that im not insulting, you stupid f*ck" sort of demeanor, it seems likely.

Good job cutting off the last part of my post where I said there are some insults. I didnt deny that. my point was that aside from any insults most off the time thre is substance behind those insults.

 

[Alan00000]

You guys don't believe in God cause you don't want too, Who wants to live by a set of rules right?? I want to do want I want to do nobody is gonna tell me what to do! Well that's were God comes in to fix all of that. God gave you a Conscience "Con -"science" is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong Guess what God gave you that, it didn't just come from nothing. Just Like they said Every creation has a creator every design has a designer.

If there is even a slight chance God does exist wouldn't you want to seek him out The so called creator of this world? I know I did. I was an Athiest all my life up until 2 years ago. God says If you truly humbly seek me I will reveal myself to you, And thats what he did. Upon reading the bible more and more God kept confirming scripture in my life and events in the world to me to be true. I'm not stupid or ignorant maybe I see the bigger picture and you guys don't ? Then again some of you guys say what you say and Mock me and God.

Other religions God is Gonna take care of those so called religions that Man made up ,God speaks about this he calls them "FALSE RELIGIONS", How many are there now?

People gamble there money all the time and there lives too and don't even know it.

The Bible is the most printed book in the world. why is that?

Why do athiest spend so much time and effort trying to prove there isn't a God?

Guys instead of being just an Athiest be That Athiest that seeks the Lord and finds him like many out there. I know I wont be that Christian That has a false conversion and falls from his faith that he never had like so many so called Christians. Seek the Lord and be Born again.

I'll be praying for you guys.

Alan-

 

[Kisze]

Guess what God gave you that, it didn't just come from nothing.

No, my parents and the society which I live in taught me right from wrong.

If there is even a slight chance God does exist wouldn't you want to seek him out

The chance of him existing, while it isn't zero, is as big as the chance of Odin, Krishna, Thor or Zeus existing. Can't be bothered to try and seek everyone out.

religions God is Gonna take care of those so called religions that Man made up

Christianity included?

The Bible is the most printed book in the world. why is that?

Because christianty is extremely popular? The Qu'ran has also been printed tons of times. This doesn't mean anything.

Why do athiest spend so much time and effort trying to prove there isn't a God?

We don't? We just say there's a lack of proof that he exists. We're not trying to prove that he exists (very different things).


If religion makes you happy though, then good for you.

 

[Jintor]

You guys don't believe in God cause you don't want too, Who wants to live by a set of rules right?? I want to do want I want to do nobody is gonna tell me what to do! Well that's were God comes in to fix all of that. God gave you a Conscience "Con -"science" is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong Guess what God gave you that, it didn't just come from nothing. Just Like they said Every creation has a creator every design has a designer.

If there is even a slight chance God does exist wouldn't you want to seek him out The so called creator of this world? I know I did. I was an Athiest all my life up until 2 years ago. God says If you truly humbly seek me I will reveal myself to you, And thats what he did. Upon reading the bible more and more God kept confirming scripture in my life and events in the world to me to be true. I'm not stupid or ignorant maybe I see the bigger picture and you guys don't ? Then again some of you guys say what you say and Mock me and God.

Other religions God is Gonna take care of those so called religions that Man made up ,God speaks about this he calls them "FALSE RELIGIONS", How many are there now?

People gamble there money all the time and there lives too and don't even know it.

The Bible is the most printed book in the world. why is that?

Why do athiest spend so much time and effort trying to prove there isn't a God?

Guys instead of being just an Athiest be That Athiest that seeks the Lord and finds him like many out there. I know I wont be that Christian That has a false conversion and falls from his faith that he never had like so many so called Christians. Seek the Lord and be Born again.

I'll be praying for you guys.

Alan-

You know, I see the reason why Sheepo and stuff are tired of religious arguments and athiest big guns and whatever, but there's really something inherently insulting about being told "I'll be praying for you guys". It's even worse because you know (or you trust) that the comment is made 'in good faith'. People like Alan genuinely believe that they are better than us - "Maybe I see the bigger picture and you guys don't?" - and that really grates on me. There's nothing in that big-ass post that is backed up by fact; everything in there is rhetorical questions, supposition or unrelated, misleading arguments. And yet he still thinks - hell, he knows, which is much more dangerous - that he's right, so right in fact that he feels he has to pray for us.

/edit Alan, you may be interested to know that merely because I'm non-religious does not mean I don't live by a set of rules. Morality =/= religion

 

[Sheepo]

How long can a thread be solely about discussing a brief essay by Ricky Gervais? Even if I think this thread and its intended "lol atheists r cool" purpose is stupid, the directions and speed in which the topic is being derailed is incredibly reasonable. Also, Alan is either astonishingly obtuse or a troll, and that's been obvious for days. Maybe ignore him now?

I see. So as long as they deserve it then its okay?

Sure. Making fun of some one because you think they and their values are stupid is incredibly different from making fun of an obnoxious, deliberately trolling jerk.

 

[Solaris]

Alan, do you want to believe in a God or do you want to find out what is true?

For me truth is all important, I would and to some degree have discarded beliefs I held strongly in pursuit of truth, it seems like you have done similar but I doubt an honest desire to find out what is true is what guided you.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter, as what is true will remain true regardless of what anyone believes.

Myself, I have done a lot of studying and thinking in pursuit of truth. I have come to the realisation that there is a lie at the heart of human existance which I think people such as Jesus and the Buddha had the insight to see. Both these persons insights however have been largely forgotten and ignored and warped into a religion, a belief set.

The truth I have seen is that the fundamental conception of the self, everything you think you are is false. You do not exist, I do not exist. There is a human being here, there are thoughts, there is vision but there is no thinker nor see-er. There only is, there is no personal ownership of this experience.

What we are is all that there is, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

 

[Krynn72]

Sure. Making fun of some one because you think they and their values are stupid is incredibly different from making fun of an obnoxious, deliberately trolling jerk.

So then you're ok with No Limit insulting Alan. Cool.

The truth I have seen is that the fundamental conception of the self, everything you think you are is false. You do not exist, I do not exist. There is a human being here, there are thoughts, there is vision but there is no thinker nor see-er. There only is, there is no personal ownership of this experience.

What we are is all that there is, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

****ing lol

 

[No Limit]

Sure. Making fun of some one because you think they and their values are stupid is incredibly different from making fun of an obnoxious, deliberately trolling jerk.

Ok, but what if you aren't making fun of someone but instead making fun of an idea that most of us know is laughable? Suddenly that's not okay? What if the idea that we are making fun of is being a republican? Is saying that all republicans are greedy heartless bastards cool in your book?

What I'm getting at is you seem to be okay with certain things being made fun of (atleast I never heard you protest in those cases) while you aren't okay with certain other things. Is that a fair statement on my part?

 

[Sheepo]

So then you're ok with No Limit insulting Alan. Cool.

Well played. Although Alan never really was a topic of my argument with NL, it started with him attacking Eresthuex's general idea of religionbash2.net and me responding.

Ok, but what if you aren't making fun of someone but instead making fun of an idea that most of us know is laughable? Suddenly that's not okay? What if the idea that we are making fun of is being a republican? Is saying that all republicans are greedy heartless bastards cool in your book?

What I'm getting at is you seem to be okay with certain things being made fun of (atleast I never heard you protest in those cases) while you aren't okay with certain other things. Is that a fair statement on my part?

Yes, you'd be right to say I don't always make this big of a huff over stuff like this. In some cases I'm sure you could call me out on hipocrisy or something, but for the most part I'm just not this annoyed. This is all HL2.net has been for the past week: HL2.net being religiously trolled by Alan and HL2.net responding in it's most "durr atheism" fashion. So I was pretty easy to set off. Which isn't to say I don't notice or care about stuff like this as it concerns other issues (I do occasionally glance at the politics forum, and I generally just view it as a lost cause). As for your specific example, I don't think I'd have any real problem with it. It's obviously inflammatory, and a big dumb generalization, but it's still attacking an idea directly, as opposed to a person.

Edit: Well, actually, no, that's pretty bad too. But that's why I stay out of politics altogether! Polarization is baaaad.

 

[No Limit]

Ok, so after you gave it a second thought attacking an idea is still just as bad even if you don't attack the person? I know you say you don't pay much attention to the politics forum but political discussions never just take place in the politics forum. So in all your years here why do you only get your panties in a bunch in this regard when it comes to religion? If I recall correctly ( and I could be thinking of something else) this is atleast the second time we've had this discussion about decency toward religion now.

As far as Alan goes he is a dumbass troll, you might find that offensive but clearly he is. And I sort of agree with you that I don't understand why people are still replying to him. But I don't get what specific problem you had with the replies people directed toward him, especially at the beginning. Which specific posts in this thread do you find to be in the fashion of "durr atheism" as you called it?

And as far as Erestheux goes he said something that was dumb, I called him on that. You chimed in. Yet you didn't actually address what I said, did you?

 

[Solaris]

****ing lol

You're lolling, but have you actually considered what I'm saying might be true?

Ask yourself, where is this 'self' that you think exists. I presume you don't believe in souls or any of that stuff already, but the notion of self no doubt remains.

What is the self? Of what is it made? Does a rock have it? An ant?

The truth is there is no self, there are only thoughts repeating that it exists. You're mind is trapped in a loop of self-belief, this causes things like the ego which leads to self-esteem issues. When really, there is no self-to esteem, only a fictional self that will always be insecure becuase it is an illusion.

Recognise that your thoughts are just that, just thoughts. There is vision, there is a mind, yes. But when these come together why do we assume they become something greater than the parts that make it up?

I wouldn't want you to agree with me, or change your belief sets, instead only look at what I'm saying.

Is it possible that you do not exist? That there is no see-er, only seeing. No experiencer, only the experience itself.

This is the first realisation that leads to the over -hyped and mystified conept known as 'enlightenment'.

 

[Sheepo]

Ok, so after you gave it a second thought attacking an idea is still just as bad even if you don't attack the person? I know you say you don't pay much attention to the politics forum but political discussions never just take place in the politics forum. So in all your years here why do you only get your panties in a bunch in this regard when it comes to religion? If I recall correctly ( and I could be thinking of something else) this is atleast the second time we've had this discussion about decency toward religion now.

No, I really just changed my mind on it. I don't know if you posted this after my edit or not. But no, depending on the context, "Republicans are greedy" is merely an indirect ad hominem, just like "Religion is ****ing stupid" (althought that my not necessarily be the speaker's intent. And even if it's not addressed or concerning some one in particular, it's still not a valid attack on an idea, it's just a stupid generalization that has virtually no meaning. So yes, if you say something like that to a republican, it's an attack on him more than an attack on the idea.

Yes, that was me. Perhaps there is some cause for it, but high horse atheists have always been a pet peeve of mine.

As far as Alan goes he is a dumbass troll, you might find that offensive but clearly he is. And I sort of agree with you that I don't understand why people are still replying to him. But I don't get what specific problem you had with the replies people directed toward him, especially at the beginning. Which specific posts in this thread do you find to be in the fashion of "durr atheism" as you called it?

I'd say he's on the troll or he has something legitimately wrong with him. I find the whole thing "durr atheism". People have been responding to this guy for days. I don't know why, but it just seems HL2.net has always loved to talk about their atheism. Alan is just an excuse. That doesn't really have anything to do with the lengthy argument we just had though.

And as far as Erestheux goes he said something that was dumb, I called him on that. You chimed in. Yet you didn't actually address what I said, did you?

I'm pretty sure I did. I'm not going to go back five pages to investigate. IIRC, I don't think you ever really understood the context of what Erestheux said though.

 

[No Limit]

No, I really just changed my mind on it. I don't know if you posted this after my edit or not. But no, depending on the context, "Republicans are greedy" is merely an indirect ad hominem, just like "Religion is ****ing stupid" (althought that my not necessarily be the speaker's intent. And even if it's not addressed or concerning some one in particular, it's still not a valid attack on an idea, it's just a stupid generalization that has virtually no meaning. So yes, if you say something like that to a republican, it's an attack on him more than an attack on the idea.

Yes, that was me. Perhaps there is some cause for it, but high horse atheists have always been a pet peeve of mine.

You do understand how it's just a little ironic that you would say that "republicans are greedy" is an unfair ad hominem attack but in the same post you say that atheists are riding a high horse, right?

I'd say he's on the troll or he has something legitimately wrong with him. I find the whole thing "durr atheism". People have been responding to this guy for days. I don't know why, but it just seems HL2.net has always loved to talk about their atheism. Alan is just an excuse. That doesn't really have anything to do with the lengthy argument we just had though.

Again, specific posts that you are talking about would be great.

I'm pretty sure I did. I'm not going to go back five pages to investigate. IIRC, I don't think you ever really understood the context of what Erestheux said though.

No, I understood the context very well. Krynn made the comment that religious people shouldn't be shocked when people on the internet don't agree with them. Erestheux automatically took that to mean that Krynn thinks that hl2.net is some kind of atheist church and he suggested that Krynn was a retard. At the same time he said that churches don't allow atheists, which is totally wrong. Since you don't feel like going back a few pages I'll give you a link:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...vais-Why-I’m-An-Atheist&p=3237142#post3237142

Enjoy.