A Holiday Message from Ricky Gervais: Why I’m An Atheist

[No Limit]

Not really. I don't think there are any real examples in this thread, but I do think there's often an attitude of superiority involved with the atheist preaching on this forum. High horse wasn't really the right word term now that I consider it. But anyway, it's not something that can really be proven, unless they were just like "...and that's why atheism is cool. Also, I think I'm better than you."

Well okay, if not in this thread then anywhere else? I just dont get where you are seeing atheists as riding a high horse.

You think I'm calling atheism retarded because I said durr before atheism? It's kind of an internet meme.

I didnt know of this internet meme. I just still don't understand what specific issues you have with atheists in this thread. Can you name one specific post?

 

[Alan00000]

I know religious people don't see it this way, but I just think religion is absolutely wicked to the core, and praying is just a curse - surely nothing in actual effect, but psychologically very damaging to the receiver if they know people are putting voodoo hexes on them. I respectfully wish that you do not pray for me; save that for your cult members.

I bet you can't name one positive influence on this world because of Religion, in all of its existence.

It's a wicked device, under the guise of something positive. You think the 10 commandments is something special, that humans would have been savages without? In the worst prison in the world, they have rules like: don't rape each other, don't steal from each other, don't kill each other. A dung beetle or wasp community probably has those rules.

Religion is wicked Jesus came to save us from religion. I am in no religion I am a follower of Christ big difference. The 10 commandments are special it's the very thing that exposes everyone's sin it wasn't a set of rules to follow. No one person on earth is Considered good everyone is fallen short EVERYONE. The God I know Paid a price No other God has done this. Death on cross to pay for our sins. We all have a debt and Gods credit through sending his son which was PERFECT and was the Only one worthy to do so. He lived a sinless life died so we can be free and try and sin no more TRY, we try but continue to fail. Good news is we are perfect now through the Blood of Jesus. We are no longer slaves to sin. After accepting Christ God views me (as I accepted) Christ to be Spiritually perfect as He is Perfect even though I am not in this physical world.

Me praying for you will not harm you in any way but can only do good. Just me praying for you guys a few minutes ago gave me such a peace and joy in my heart. Something I cant just manifest but comes with Gods spirit that is dwelling in me.

You are right about religion not having any positive influence in the world, I do not follow religion. I follow Christ, Not man made religion. The religion we are all use too is whats on tv , terrorist killing people heck even Christians killin people Its not How its supposed to be. God is Love How can I claim i'm christian and Kill or hold up posters that say negative things like Gos hated this and God hates that. Who in Christ can do that ? There are so many false conversions in America its crazy. We say one thing and live another way. That's Not A true believer. It sucks that Christians have a bad rep Cause of what we see on TV and stuff.

 

[Yuri]

What did i say that was dumb? That the general demeanor of this forum is to constantly berate and insult anything to do with religion? yeah man god i am so dumb f*cklife2.net im out

 

[VirusType2]

Alan, don't you think it's a bit unusual that the Book of God instructs you to kill non-believers? They might just be minding their business, leading out a perfectly peaceful existence, and you are instructed to murder them. How can you even pretend that is something good?

A commandment is: A command; an edict. An authoritative command or order; mandate; precept. It's not a list of sins like you claim.

Thou shalt not kill. Does that sound like a listing of a sin? And this #1 commandment only applies to other cult members. It's a form of control.


And all you defenders: You think I'm doing this to be mean or something? This takes courage. I could be killed over this, like today it's thousands of years ago, and nothing has changed.

You want to talk down to me, and then play a victim when I show that you are a worser people. Dying in the name of... it could be me, and I don't have anything to do with religion. You bring everybody into this, and trample on the lives and liberties of the entire world.

Do you not see the reason that debating religion on the internet is so popular? You want to put a stop to it? Of course, because that's the only way we can speak our mind (relatively) safely from the hordes of cult members who are instructed to kill us if they want to live in eternal heaven when they die. Stranger than fiction.

 

[Alan00000]

Alan, don't you think it's a bit unusual that the Book of God instructs you to kill non-believers? They might just be minding their business, leading out a perfectly peaceful existence, and you are instructed to murder them. How can you even pretend that is something good?

A commandment is: A command; an edict. An authoritative command or order; mandate; precept. It's not a list of sins like you claim.

Thou shalt not kill. Does that sound like a listing of a sin? And this #1 commandment only applies to other cult members. It's a form of control.


And all you defenders: You think I'm doing this to be mean or something? This takes courage. I could be killed over this, like today it's thousands of years ago, and nothing has changed.

You want to talk down to me, and then play a victim when I show that you are a worser people. Dying in the name of... it could be me, and I don't have anything to do with religion. You bring everybody into this, and trample on the lives and liberties of the entire world.

Do you not see the reason that debating religion on the internet is so popular? You want to put a stop to it? Of course, because that's the only way we can speak our mind (relatively) safely from the hordes of cult members who are instructed to kill us if they want to live in eternal heaven when they die. Stranger than fiction.

The Ten Commandments which God sent down to Moses and to the Israelites. God laid on them a heavy burden, saying to them: Whoever can perfectly keep everything that the Ten Commandments demand, is worthy to live with Me forever. However, whoever keeps the whole law but fails in just one point is guilty of breaking all of it, and will be separated from Me forever!

Therefore, if this is what the holiness of God is like, what we want to know is: Why did God give the Ten Commandments to the Israelites when He knew that no one could keep them perfectly? Listen to God's answer: "No one will be declared righteous in [God's] sight by observing the law; rather, [the purpose of the commandments is to reveal sin!]" So what is the purpose of the Ten Commandments? To remove sin? "No," God says, "the purpose of the commandments is to reveal sin!" to make us "conscious of sin."

 

[Sheepo]

Well okay, if not in this thread then anywhere else? I just dont get where you are seeing atheists as riding a high horse.

No. I'm not going to find anything anywhere else. Do you really read my posts or do you just look for the easiest idea
to latch onto to desperately continue this conversation?

I didnt know of this internet meme. I just still don't understand what specific issues you have with atheists in this thread. Can you name one specific post?

I don't have specific issues with atheists in this thread. Does my last post not make that clear? "Atheist durr" refers to the fact that HL2.net loves to talk about being atheist all the time. I'm referring to the fact that there are rather a lot of posts in which atheists talk about being atheists on this forum. There have been four threads about religion in the past week, take your pick.

Edit: Virus, you're beginning to make me sick.

 

[VirusType2]

Edit: Virus, you're beginning to make me sick.

You don't want to feel smaller than a speck and scared, see yourself from outside your body, and have your mind blown? Man, we should just go to church then.

I don't have the heart to tell my mom.

 

[morgs]

Here's a follow up on Ricky's article.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/22/does-god-exist-ricky-gervais-takes-your-questions/

 

[Eejit]

>I don't get emotionally attached to my beliefs
>I should treat everyone as though they're not emotionally attached to their beliefs

We have the right not to care when easily upset people become upset easily.

 

[JUL3]

The Bible is a piece of utter rubbish. Anyone who lives their life by it's rules is retarded. I'm not discrediting Jesus or the possibility of a higher existence here, just the absolutely fictional & utterly misguiding piece of text the church is built around.

I believe Jesus existed, & that he was a really cool guy who taught us some stuff about peace & shit. But he was human none-the-less, so what's the big deal? What puts him above other figures of the past? Personally, I think the teachings of the buddha Siddhartha are of better value than Jesus'.

 

[No Limit]

No. I'm not going to find anything anywhere else. Do you really read my posts or do you just look for the easiest idea
to latch onto to desperately continue this conversation?

You said some atheists here ride a high horse. My sincere apologies for asking you to name any specifics.

I don't have specific issues with atheists in this thread. Does my last post not make that clear? "Atheist durr" refers to the fact that HL2.net loves to talk about being atheist all the time. I'm referring to the fact that there are rather a lot of posts in which atheists talk about being atheists on this forum. There have been four threads about religion in the past week, take your pick.

Atheists talking about being atheists in threads about religion? You don't say, those bastards!!!!

I believe Jesus existed, & that he was a really cool guy who taught us some stuff about peace & shit. But he was human none-the-less, so what's the big deal? What puts him above other figures of the past? Personally, I think the teachings of the buddha Siddhartha are of better value than Jesus'.

Is there actually any real evidance that Jesus even existed? I've wondered about that.

 

[Sheepo]

We have the right not to care when easily upset people become upset easily.

A right I've already acknowledged. You have the right to not be a jerk as well.

You said some atheists here ride a high horse. My sincere apologies for asking you to name any specifics.

This is adorable, but no, I'm not going to do a whole lot of work for you when you're clearly not even reading the two sentence responses I'm making.

Atheists talking about being atheists in threads about religion? You don't say, those bastards!!!!

Just think, if you had basic reading comprehension, you could've made this joke like four posts ago!

 

[No Limit]

Ahhh forget it.

 

[Eejit]

A right I've already acknowledged. You have the right to not be a jerk as well.

It's not being a jerk. It's simply not bowing to guilt trips from the sensitive little flowers.

 

[Stigmata]

I make allowances for the possibility of religious correctness without pandering to them, and all I ask is that religious people do the same for my beliefs.

 

[VirusType2]

Here's a follow up on Ricky's article.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/22/does-god-exist-ricky-gervais-takes-your-questions/

I've never actually read anything about atheism before, but this pretty much covers it.

 

[Sheepo]

It's not being a jerk. It's simply not bowing to guilt trips from the sensitive little flowers.

Whatever you say.

 

[morgs]

Is there actually any real evidance that Jesus even existed? I've wondered about that.

I remember seeing a documentary once on the existence of Jesus and I think it's very possible he did indeed exist. As for the claims of miracles and walking on water, well...

 

[Solaris]

The Bible is a piece of utter rubbish. Anyone who lives their life by it's rules is retarded. I'm not discrediting Jesus or the possibility of a higher existence here, just the absolutely fictional & utterly misguiding piece of text the church is built around.

I believe Jesus existed, & that he was a really cool guy who taught us some stuff about peace & shit. But he was human none-the-less, so what's the big deal? What puts him above other figures of the past? Personally, I think the teachings of the buddha Siddhartha are of better value than Jesus'.

If you have a look, and I mean, really have a look it seems that both had the same level of insight. Sadly, the inheritors of Jesus's teachings didn't understand it and people like St.Pete ****ed it up and made it into a religion, something Jesus would have hated. Remember the only time he ever went into a church he started a ****ing riot.

If you're interested, I'd reccomend taking a look at the Gospel of Thomas, it was only discored in 1945 but likely originated in AD60.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
Without a doubt there is some real insight there that matches the teachings of the Buddha, for example

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

113. His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

There is clearly real insight there that matches what Buddha taught, the only problem is you have to realise that Jesus came from a Jewish community and so used that kind of language to convey those ideas. So when those who have deep insight speak of 'oneness' or 'what is', Jesus used 'The fathers kingdom'. These are different words but all pointing towards that which cannot be represented through speech.

 

[morgs]

Another Snippet from his blog.

So the debate rages.

That's a good thing. Anything that makes people check and reassess the way they live their lives, and affect others, can only be healthy.

I'm disappointed that many Christians took it personalIy though. I thought I could not have been clearer. I do not believe in ANY god. The only reason I mentioned the Christian God was because that was the one I was brought up to believe. That's the one I know about. The Bible is the only holy book I have studied. I believe all religions are equally as good and bad as each other. Christianity is the only one I could really claim to "know". (But thank you too all the Christians and other believers who were gracious enough to point out that if you can be good without faith then that's the important thing.)

As I said in my first essay I was always big a fan of Jesus. A kind, brave, forgiving, open minded, gentle and compassionate man. I was never such a big fan of Christians. I saw so few similarities between Christians and Christ. Even after I stopped believing in the possibility of a God (or any other supernatural being) I never stopped believing that Jesus was a great role model. It's just that I saw no significant correlation between being like him and believing in a God. It was tragic that even though he was a good man with all those virtues, he was crucified because his beliefs did not coincide with the majority. Hmmm? Nor do mine. Bit worrying. Maybe I should carry on trying to be virtuous but pretend I'm doing it to go to heaven. Then I'll be safe and popular, and even though I'll be lying, no one will know. And since there is no God anyway, I may as well be thought of as good on earth (which seems to be associated with God in many parts of the world), and not offend anyone.

Or maybe I just won't answer any more questions. Maybe I'll just ask some from now on.

Where did God come from? (Not allowed to answer "he's always been here". Doesn't make sense. Sounds mental.)

Oh no. You answered "he's always been here" didn't you?

OK, Where was he? (Not allowed to answer "he was everywhere", or "nowhere" or "can't be answered in physical, or logical or scientific terms" or "we can't understand the answer because we haven't got God's brain". Again it doesn't make sense. Sounds just as mental.)

Oh shit you did it again.

OK. Why did he create the universe? (Answer however you want for this one, but no clues.)

And why did he wait so long?

No need to write an essay. There's no prize. Just answer to yourself for fun. Spend a few days. Don't even discuss it with anyone. Just think about it for yourself.

Have a lovely Christmas. (Yes I know that includes the word Christ. I say "Thursday" too. That's named after Thor.)

 

[Alan00000]

If Jesus Existed and I believe he Did He claimed He was God and that's what Got him killed. Another Key thing is that he came back to life after he was dead. Also its hard for me to believe the miracles like water into wine, parting seas, and walking on water But I do. But I have no proof of any of this, except that his spirit lives in me and radically changed my heart. I now hate the things that God hates and loves what he loves. I have new desires. If only more people would accept it then God could actually work in a life.

 

[VirusType2]

If Jesus Existed and I believe he Did He claimed He was God and that's what Got him killed. Another Key thing is that he came back to life after he was dead. Also its hard for me to believe the miracles like water into wine, parting seas, and walking on water But I do. But I have no proof of any of this, except that his spirit lives in me and radically changed my heart. I now hate the things that God hates and loves what he loves. I have new desires. If only more people would accept it then God could actually work in a life.

I think you've had enough pie.

I think it's pretty obvious, this is going to be two major groups doing battle for the glory. Essentially, red versus blue (green, in this case). The non-religious caught in the middle, as militarily inept as Sweden (a neutral country without a strong military). This will go on in time until one side is all but completely swallowed up, and there is nothing but one religion and some secret fringe groups here and there.

 

[Krynn72]

Ahhh forget it.

lol'd again. No Limit is a hypocrite.

 

[Shift]

you make it sound isolated

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33356826/ns/world_news-africa/

And that link does what exactly? My original point stands…

why should public education cater exclusively to a specific special interest group by discarding scientific fact and replacing it with myth? creationism has zero scientific merit.

You missed my point. Regardless of whether it has any scientific merit, its still infringing on the rights of Christians, so the scales tip both ways.

abortion, homosexuality, same sex marriage, stem cell research, women's rights, creationism in schools, the spread of aids etc historically, current and I'm sure in the future religion has been meddling in the progress of mankind either directly or indirectly

So because a bunch of catholics have spoken out against these things, that’s hindering our progression as a race is it? Abortion happens regardless of what some idiots say, gays are no longer looked on as an alien species, stem cell research is still be researched and practiced, women are no longer at the bottom of the pile but are practically equal with men in society and I was never taught creationism at school. So as I said, its hate propaganda, our species progression, and knowledge of the universe is proceeding just as it would do even if religion weren’t there.

It always seems to be you who starts these threads, knowing full well what they will escalate into. Why the mods let this supposed war on religion continue is beyond me, its making a shambles of the entire forum. But I also find it ironic that a thread below this one, in which the first post was promoting the idea of God was closed pretty much immediately, yet this one which is clearly promoting an atheistic viewpoint, is still running for 11 pages. You can almost taste the bias...

I pay attention to these things, and it's never that they were insulted. It's that they could no longer defend their position.

Or they get bored of going around in circles, hearing the same arguments, and the same counter arguments to which there comes a point their mind just thinks, what is the point, a realization I have come to many times.

It's even worse because you know (or you trust) that the comment is made 'in good faith'. People like Alan genuinely believe that they are better than us..

Oh wow did that make me laugh…

 

[Warbie]

There is no doubt that religion is holding us back scientifically. It teaches people that it's ok to believe in something without evidence - what mindset could be less conducive to scientific method?

 

[Shift]

Right so the sooner religion is abolished, there will suddenly be flying cars everywhere, and spacestation aborting the planet, and massive colonies on the moon and FTL drives whizzing us around the solar system? Don't make me laugh, we are progressing scientifically regardless.

 

[Warbie]

Most of the people on this planet live their lives with irrational, illogical and contradictory beliefs - you honestly believe this isn't holding us back as a species?

Creationist museums exist!

 

[Shift]

Well I don't know, because for one I'm a Christian and secondly I am looking at the big picture in terms of our scientific progression. What you see as illogical or irrational is something that makes sense to a lot of people, so its merely an opinion when you say its holding us back as a species, its not fact. And an opinion I'd have to disagree with completely, not because of my faith, but mainly because its right there in front of you, technology is rocketing forward. You like your evidence so much, its right there, suggesting its retarding our progression is mere speculation which I know athiests hate when it comes to this kind of discussion...

 

[Warbie]

There's no denying current progress - the point is are we progressing as fast as we could and should be? With so many young minds in the world being filled up with baseless 'facts', I think not. Not even close. This is not healthy! - especially during the formative years that determine what kind of adult someone will grow into. Can you at least understand why an athiest would find this so incredibly frustrating? If someone can surender reason to the extent that they can believe in and base their life around something so fantastic and yet with no evidence, how many baby steps does it take for them to believe in something equally as unfounded. Irrational thought begets irrational thought.

 

[Eejit]

So because a bunch of catholics have spoken out against these things, that’s hindering our progression as a race is it? Abortion happens regardless of what some idiots say, gays are no longer looked on as an alien species, stem cell research is still be researched and practiced, women are no longer at the bottom of the pile but are practically equal with men in society and I was never taught creationism at school. So as I said, its hate propaganda, our species progression, and knowledge of the universe is proceeding just as it would do even if religion weren’t there.

Hahaha oh wow yeah it's only Catholics who are against abortion, same sex marriage, stem cell research etc. no true scotsm- er Christian (/church) would have such views.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Meh, **** it, I feel like sticking my oar in and I'm gonna.

You missed my point. Regardless of whether it has any scientific merit, its still infringing on the rights of Christians, so the scales tip both ways.

Wait, are you actually arguing that creationism should be taught in schools now? I can't really tell, but I could have sworn you were originally arguing against it...

Abortion happens regardless of what some idiots say

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ion-not-ready-for-a-child-20101012-16gyd.html

I'd just like to point out that this article is only two months old. Yep.

gays are no longer looked on as an alien species

Haha. Maybe where you live.

So as I said, its hate propaganda, our species progression, and knowledge of the universe is proceeding just as it would do even if religion weren’t there.

How can something that's true be "hate propaganda?" This isn't something a few people have just made up, this is something that can be widely observed and evidenced. Surely what you're trying to say is the effect of religion on the progress of science has been blown out of proportion? I won't attempt to argue that point (though I wouldn't concede to it either), but to say it's had no significant effect is hardly true.

You talk about the bigger picture in regards to science, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to fully accept that, in the larger scheme of things, you're actually part of a relatively small minority. Despite all of your creationist-ish arguments, you seem like a pretty moderate christian. There's plenty of people like you, and to be honest you're perfectly harmless. But if we're speaking of the effect of religion, or even just christianity, you kind of have to accept that the majority of people aren't religious in the same way that you are. They probably have a very different world view, not to mention a different interpretation of your holy book, or another holy book altogether. So I can't help but wonder, are you arguing for religion, are you arguing for christianity, or are you merely defending your own particular version of these?

But I also find it ironic that a thread below this one, in which the first post was promoting the idea of God was closed pretty much immediately, yet this one which is clearly promoting an atheistic viewpoint, is still running for 11 pages. You can almost taste the bias...

I kind of agree with this, in retrospect. Probably sounds a little odd coming from me, but I always get a little uncomfortable when people try to "preach" atheism or "convert" religious people around here. I think Raziaar said it somewhere in the thread, but that kind of change has to come from within, and I don't really see it as my business to try and persuade anyone. I'm not saying there's no place for these debates (they're ever so much fun), but I don't see that atheism should have free reign to evangelise as it pleases.

That said, I doubt there was a great deal of bias involved in closing that other thread.

 

[Solaris]

I wish people would engage my posts, I'm trying to free your minds here

 

[VirusType2]

lol'd again. No Limit is a hypocrite.

Oh, man. I laughed.

I wish people would engage my posts, I'm trying to free your minds here

I meant to say that it was the only interesting post in the thread.

You're lolling, but have you actually considered what I'm saying might be true?

Ask yourself, where is this 'self' that you think exists. I presume you don't believe in souls or any of that stuff already, but the notion of self no doubt remains.

What is the self? Of what is it made? Does a rock have it? An ant?

The truth is there is no self, there are only thoughts repeating that it exists. You're mind is trapped in a loop of self-belief, this causes things like the ego which leads to self-esteem issues. When really, there is no self-to esteem, only a fictional self that will always be insecure becuase it is an illusion.

Recognise that your thoughts are just that, just thoughts. There is vision, there is a mind, yes. But when these come together why do we assume they become something greater than the parts that make it up?

I wouldn't want you to agree with me, or change your belief sets, instead only look at what I'm saying.

Is it possible that you do not exist? That there is no see-er, only seeing. No experiencer, only the experience itself.

This is the first realisation that leads to the over -hyped and mystified conept known as 'enlightenment'.

Our brains and bodies are chemical-electrical. I've always thought of our mind as like RAM, and if you die, it's like the power is cut - everything (your "self") is gone. But "self" is just a collection of memories, and our active thoughts and senses. So let's say more like RAM/CPU/GPU, and not just RAM.

So, I guess I partially agree with you, if I'm understanding you correctly. This is kind of similar to "it's all in your head". Like, nobody can feel your pain but you. But if you hook your nervous system or brain up to a computer, you could document it. So, yes it's real. It exists.

The truth is there is no self, there are only thoughts repeating that it exists.

I had an unusual experience in the one time I experimented with LSD. And I wasn't the only one. We would forget we were on it, constantly reminding ourselves, constantly forgetting anything and everything, constantly remembering.

 

[Remus]

Our brains and bodies are chemical-electrical. I've always thought of our mind as like RAM, and if you die, it's like the power is cut - everything (your "self") is gone. But "self" is just a collection of memories, and our active thoughts and senses. So let's say more like RAM/CPU/GPU, and not just RAM.

I like the way Ray Kurzweil described the "self". He put it this way, what we think of as "self" is the pattern of information existing in the neural network of our brains. That pattern contains everything that makes us "us": our memories and our thoughts. And that pattern is always changing, evolving.

 

[Raziaar]

I wish people would engage my posts, I'm trying to free your minds here

Friends! I have come to free you from your complicated lives! The complicated part not the lives part.

 

[Stigmata]

I like the way Ray Kurzweil described the "self". He put it this way, what we think of as "self" is the pattern of information existing in the neural network of our brains. That pattern contains everything that makes us "us": our memories and our thoughts. And that pattern is always changing, evolving.

I tend to agree with this view. But once you reach this conclusion, you have to ask where the phenomenon of perception comes from. The fact that a chemical process itself can create this experience of life, of self, is incredible. But it's so far beyond our understanding of matter and energy that for all we know, there could an analogue of the "soul" that exists outside of chemical processes and provides this perception. Or there might not be. But we perceive and live in spite of the apparent non-life and non-perception of our chemicals, and we feel as if we are more than the sum of our parts. It has to mean something.

 

[Alan00000]

It's was nice talking to you all but I have to go , I have a God to worship and a game to play. PEACE OUT!!

 

[VirusType2]

I replied to one of your posts! Who's being ignored now??

What is "true", anyway, if not a human construct?

Where is your God now?

No but seriously, I chuckled.