A MOD request. Singleplayer.

[the_prodigy]

I don't know where else to put this topic so don't waste your time and flame me about that.

I would like it if someone could make an HL2 MOD that allows you to see your player model in first person. That is, when I look down I see what I would see in the real world; shoulders, chest, arms, legs etc. This sort of a MOD coupled with the fact that HL2 will have bullet decals on models (including the player model in this case) would rock.

Imagine walking into an abandonded warehouse with your faithful pistol. No one 'seems' to be there. Nothing can be heard, save the sound of your footsteps. Your searching the area for combine. 5 mins into the search, you still don't see anyone. You look at your watch (in-game, imagine this) and think, "Oh comon already !". Suddenly, a Combine soldier pops up from behind a crate and shoots you. You're taken by suprise, but eventually you manage to kill him, courtsey a bullet to the head. You notice you lost some health. You look down and see the bullet entry wound on your left arm. :dork: Wouldn't that be cool ?!

I've always wanted a MOD like this for a first person shooter. It seems very simple to make, but there would be quite a few problems. Clipping problems primarily. For example, if it's not done well, on looking down you would see through the whole player model; neck, chest, legs etc. Another problem could be the the FOV. If the player decides to change the FOV it could lead to clipping problems again. Maybe with this sort of a mod a fixed FOV is needed. But if it's done perfectly, man, it would add a whole new level of realism to first person shooters. As of now, all FPSs have the hand and the gun model drawn in first person. I think it would be pretty cool if my idea was implemented. It may cut down the game performance, but the difference would be quite negligible. And you could always disable it anyway.

I hope some MOD team takes up this challenge. Just imagine if it was done ......

 

[SLH]

I'm not too convinced that it would play very well. You'd have to have a wierd control system if you wanted to control head movement differently to body movement (to see other body parts, as mentioned etc.), and that would just be confusing.

I think a mod team that made this mod would be shooting themselves in the foot, both mataphorically (sp?) and in-game

 

[dawdler]

Firstly, the hardest part is that you have to change the weapon handling completely. Normally in a game, the gun is attached to the camera. Something like this would require it to be attached to the body, and not move up or down (or not move as much as the camera). I'm not sure exactly what HL2 will use, but my guess is attached to camera...

Secondly, the FOV of the camera is a really big problem. You simply cant see as much as a real eye, no matter what you do.

Thirdly, the camera itself have to be up and front a little from the pivot point, so one dont see through the body. Then, a hardcoded movement must be done so that you move it correctly (to simulate both the neck and head movement, it will be very odd otherwise). This is bothersome.

And lastly, you will get nauscious doing this
Altering the pivot point of a camera will produce a very odd angle when looking up or down. Since the camera doesnt function like the eye (the eye has smooth movements, it doesnt follow the head) that is not a problem in real life. If the eyes where static (ie like a game), it would be problem. But this depends on final implementation, one could minimize the effect.

 

[the_prodigy]

Ya, i know. There would be several implementation problems. However, if some innovative system was to be made, that would get around the problems it would own.

I was thinking that in this kind of a mod, the camera (head), the gun, arms and body move together with the mouse movements (like all FPSs basically). There would also be a button which when pressed allows only head movement (kind of like the mouselook function in FPSs), allowing you to basically just look around the place while your player model, arms (and hence gun) are stationary. And when this button is released the head turns back and aligns itself with the gun and arms again. Basically, i was thinking the MOD behaves as far as possible like a normal FPS.

As for the FOV problem. True, you can't get the same FOV as a human eye does, but thats ok. Even 90 degrees is ok ( i think the human eye sees 120 degrees, but this would cause a sort of curvature in-game, like we see in games like quake 3 with 120 degrees fov ) or maybe a bit higher.

When u look around the camera would have to move like a human head does to prevent clipping. What most people imagine when they think of this kind of a MOD in FPSs, is a static camera fitted above the neck. And when the player looks down, the camera rotates downwards and will eventually (if unchecked) look through the player body. But if the camera moved like a human head, that is, the camera actually traces a sort of circular path when looking down, it could elliminate the clipping, if done correctly.

This is SO possible. This is the next step in first person shooters. Someone please take the initiative and make it ! :bounce:

 

[dawdler]

You still have a problem with the head. As I said, the "eyes" of the camera dont move. You cant see your body by just looking forward and tilt your head down! (well, you can, but its completely off focus, and you have a completely different angle of view than if you where actually looking at it with your eyes). To simulate full view... Hm... It gets quite complex. You'll have to simulate neck movement using the camera (offpivot). When you hit one of the limits for this camera, it have to start pivoting around center (well, nearly, the eye is not pivoting around center, close enough) to give full view. I'm sure it can be done, its just that most of the time its not worth the time taking to do it...

 

[the_prodigy]

You still have a problem with the head. As I said, the "eyes" of the camera dont move. You cant see your body by just looking forward and tilt your head down! (well, you can, but its completely off focus, and you have a completely different angle of view than if you where actually looking at it with your eyes).

The eyes remain fixed in there sockets. You dont need them to move as well. Coz then u've have 3 systems of view movement; namely head/arms/gun, head and eyes. Which makes little sense. Head/arms/gun and head is good enough and will allow you to look around the place fine. IT IS POSSIBLE. If properly done it won't warp movement as much as y'all think. Yes, I am aware the field of vision (FOV) will be less than that of the human eye, but thats OK !

I mean how long will there be first person shooters in which the arms and gun float above the ground? Sure, a mod like this would be quite a useless mod as far as gameplay would go, but it would add to the overall realism of the game. And once something like this is done, then it would be amazing in virtual reality. With a virtual reality head set, the FOV problems should be elliminated. In a VR system, our head movements control the head, and our arm movements control the arms and gun. Damn, it would rock.

Comon, it's high time someone atleast tried to make a MOD like this.

 

[SLH]

Originally posted by the_prodigy
Sure, a mod like this would be quite a useless mod as far as gameplay would go, but it would add to the overall realism of the game.

So would making a mod where you died of internal bleeding when shot once, but it wouldn't be much fun.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by SLH
So would making a mod where you died of internal bleeding when shot once, but it wouldn't be much fun.

Then how come many games that are fun simulate constant wounds?

At any rate, this viewing body, I still dont think its important... There are other ways. Looking at the clock can be by an animation, and be equally (actually more) pretty like looking at it realtime. Considering looking at wounds to see if you are hurt, I would want to use another method I call Hands-On. You simply click a key and you feel on your body, then hold up the hand that displays various degrees of wounds. This would be instead of a health meter. I wanted that in Unaimed, but I aint a good modeller nor texturer, so its not sure its gonna be in...

All in all, you will get roughly the same interactivity with your body. Not exactly, but roughly.

 

[cyborgguineapig]

Ever play the game Tresspasser? That has first person view you could actually see your body when lookign down. The main character was a girl to and lookign straight down were two big boobs lol.

It was a stupid game though.

EDIT: well I guess by the screenschots (I haven't played it for lie forever) it didn't look that bad afterall, but I remember it being a damn boring game. Like one dinosaur would attack you like every 30 minutes:dozey:

http://www.cdaccess.com/gifs/screen/trespass3.jpg
http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/nov98/tres04.jpg
LOL
http://www.gamespot.com/features/awards1998/dubious2.html

 

[the_prodigy]

I still think it would be cool. Especially in a game like HL2. Hope someone makes it. Like I said before, it may not be useful, but it adds to the overall realism of any first person game. I think that making a perfect system incorperating this is the future of FPSs. It's gonna be done sooner or later. And that system would be the standard for other FPSs for the years to come.

Don't be bogged down by how 'weird' it would feel and stuff. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED IT YET ! No one has unfortunately, until some dude sits down and makes it.

Anyway, if any MODers are reading this topic, please post what you guys feel about it and hopefully y'all will undertake this project.

:cheers:

 

[SLH]

Originally posted by dawdler
Then how come many games that are fun simulate constant wounds?

Guess it's a matter of personal taste, but i've never liked 'realism' style games/mods.

I'd rather have realistic phyiscs (water that can be poured!), that realistic wounds.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by SLH
Guess it's a matter of personal taste, but i've never liked 'realism' style games/mods.

I'd rather have realistic phyiscs (water that can be poured!), that realistic wounds.

Wounds is realism? Wounds in Unaimed is gameplay, I want the medic to be a neccesary class. Nothing realisticly aimed. Everything that people think is realistic in my mod is just something one get with the gameplay

And why on earth water before something that affects the character? Its not like Gordon is gonna boil water for fun in his little flat while a Strider tears through the wall
I'd rather have him get knocked away by flying debris, and get a big bruise where it hits, including a 20cm splinter sticking out of his leg covered in blood.

 

[SLH]

Originally posted by dawdler
I'd rather have him get knocked away by flying debris, and get a big bruise where it hits, including a 20cm splinter sticking out of his leg covered in blood.

Ok, that does sound cool.

With water, you have the possibility of doing things like drowning enemies, bursting pipes near electricity to get enemies etc. Just a thought.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by SLH
With water, you have the possibility of doing things like drowning enemies, bursting pipes near electricity to get enemies etc. Just a thought.

I beleive several games already use this.
Though when you talk about water, I always think of Postal2, and the fact you could... uhm... sprinkle some... water... on the enemies
Sidenote: Postal2 has the coolest flammable liquid ever. The napalm rocks, and going around pouring gas all over the place, then throwing a match... *sigh*... Just brings a warm feeling to my heart... And often my hands... Or sometimes my entire body...

 

[the_prodigy]

So would making a mod where you died of internal bleeding when shot once, but it wouldn't be much fun.

Your missing the point. The main purpose of this mod is to see the player model in first person. The bullet wounds would come automatically coz of HL2.

HL2 already has bullet wound decals on enemy models. So for the mod i suggested, the modder would have to make the player model appear in first person, make a proper head movement system (so no clipping etc). The woulds on the player model would appear (if decals come on enemy models, it can also come on the player model in short). So separate coding isn't required for that, apart from just enabling the decals on the player model.

 

[SLH]

I understand what you mean, but i don't think that the realism in this case (seeing your own body) would play well. Maybe i'm wrong and it would add a lot of fun to a mod that included it, i just don't think that woudl be the case.

If you didn't die straight away (e.g. multiplayer), then you'd have a lot of bullet-wounds before dying - which could make you look like a running corpse. I don't want to look down and see legs caked in blood. Possibly if you get the balance write, it could work, but i still think most players wouldn't like it (perhaps just because we're not used to it in a fps). Each to their own i guess.

 

[the_prodigy]

If you didn't die straight away (e.g. multiplayer), then you'd have a lot of bullet-wounds before dying - which could make you look like a running corpse.

I said singleplayer mod. Anyway, it would work well in multiplayer as well.

Running corpse? Your talking as if the bullet decals stay on the model right till the end of the map time throughout the player deaths, lol (yes yes i know u said if u didnt die straight away etc etc). I'm quite sure valve will have the bullet decals in MP as well. Will the most recent decals disappear on taking health, we have to see (and obviously no decals on player respawn, which I know you understand).

This will be a 'realism' mod only in the sense that you can see the player model, nothing more. The bullet decals on the model will already be there as HL2 is gonna be using that system. Thats what im trying to say. So understand, this isn't some gore mod im suggesting. The wounds when u look down are like an added bonus, if u know what i mean. I'm just interested to use this kind of a system.

Stop saying how useless the mod would be coz that's already been established. It would not be of any 'use'. If you look at things that way, then whats the 'use' of having reflection, refraction and Fresnel diffraction effects in liquids. What's the 'use' of putting reflective effects in a character's eyes. It just looks much better and much more realistic. Thus, blurring the line between reality and games. Just as this mod would. Be open minded. Lateral thinking never helped anyone. :cheese:

I'm getting the feeling you guys are replying without completely understanding what I'm saying. Read carefully please .

 

[SLH]

Originally posted by the_prodigy
I said singleplayer mod.

Oops sorry, although i'd say my point ramains.

If you look at things that way, then whats the 'use' of having reflection, refraction and Fresnel diffraction effects in liquids. What's the 'use' of putting reflective effects in a character's eyes.

I think that reflection, refraction and defraction type effects, look cool bot don't get in the way of gameplay. Where as i feel that being able to see your body would do.


On this point i think we should agree to differ. By the way, if you do incorperate this into your mod, i'd definatly download it just so see how it played.

 

[the_prodigy]

I think that reflection, refraction and defraction type effects, look cool bot don't get in the way of gameplay. Where as i feel that being able to see your body would do.

I see your point. But if made correctly it wouldn't get in the way of gameplay. It would just be a bit different (which isn't neccessarily bad). Whatever, I respect your opinion on this. Thanks.

By the way, if you do incorperate this into your mod, i'd definatly download it just so see how it played.

Dude, I'm no modder. I made this topic to request modders to make a mod like this. :cheese:

 

[bslinger]

I can see how this sort of mod would be cool, the current 'floating head' style of gameplay takes away from the immersion a fair bit, so it'd be cool to be able to see your body. (It looks really weird when Gordon is driving the buggy in the HL2 movie, and the steering wheel is just turning itself)

Anyway, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that this has actually been done before. In Vietcong, you could look down and see your feet, and in one of the semi-cutscene bits in the helicopter, you could look down and around and see yourself sitting. And yes, it did add to the immersion factor.

 

[the_prodigy]

In Vietcong, you could look down and see your feet, and in one of the semi-cutscene bits in the helicopter, you could look down and around and see yourself sitting. And yes, it did add to the immersion factor.

Just installed Vietcong demo and saw that. The first person in that cut-scene looks real cool. It's done quite well, no clipping. Can only imagine how it will look in HL2. ;(

 

[bUsh[ES]]

In Tribes 2 you could look down and see your body (Legs, and what not).

I always thought it was a cool little feature, but not something to put much effort into.

 

[the_prodigy]

Oh yeah ! Even Tribes 2 had it ! Completely forgot about that.