A new computer

[Raziaar]

So folks. My dad was talking about possibly upgrading my computer to something better. Like a new top of the line upgrade. Why? Because his wife has an old computer and she's becoming increasingly frustrated by it, and instead of buying a mediocre computer, like a prebuilt one that he's worried she'll buy, he was thinking maybe buying a really good one for me, and letting her use my current computer, which is way overkill for anything she could ever possibly need to do. It'd be a dream for her, compared to the one she's using now. I know it would be, because I have fixed hers countless times in the past.


Anyways... I'm looking at a chance to maybe get a full upgrade on my computer. Like, top of the line, or close to it.

What do you guys have to tell me about the new technologies and prices of these things before I do research? I've noticed that everything seems to be cheaper than the technologies in my computer, like ram and video cards on PCI express, etc.

Last time I researched for a computer, it was 2003 and Half-life 2 was nearing release and ultimately being delayed.

 

[Krynn72]

- Nvidia 8800(s) for video card(s)
- Quad core processor Q6800
- 4gigs DDR2 ram.
- Motherboard that can equip the above.

 

[Raziaar]

Realistically I'm probably looking at only 1000 dollars or so. I already have an operating system and a good monitor, a keyboard, mouse, speakers, sound card(I won't be upgrading my sound card! MUAHAHA 1999 technology ftw!).

Probably won't be able to get me that good of a computer with those specs, huh?

I'm also not sure I'm really interested in the idea of multiple GPUs... though having the ability would be nice.

SLI doesn't always give a performance benefit – in some extreme cases, it can lower the framerate due to the particulars of an application's coding.[19] This is also true for ATI's CrossFire, as the problem is inherent in multi-GPU systems. This is often witnessed when running an application at low resolutions.

 

[Krynn72]

I just threw together the following for about $1100. So yes, with a little more scrutiny, you could get a very good pc for 1000

Q6600 quadcore processor: $215
motherboard: $140
2 8800gts: $370
4 gigs of ddr2 ram with decent timings: $215
case: $100
psu: $100

 

[Raziaar]

Who's on top these days when it comes to processors? AMD or Intel?

I keep reading that AMD is dominating the price wars, but Intel is crushing AMD when it comes to performance.

 

[Krynn72]

Intel without a doubt. I had to break my AMD fanboyism because intel's multicore processors are just totally out of AMD's league.

 

[Raziaar]

Intel without a doubt. I had to break my AMD fanboyism because intel's multicore processors are just totally out of AMD's league.

Yeah, it was sort of like that back when I purchased my computer. I was previously an AMD man, but I had to go for Intel at the time for various reasons of preference.



EDIT:



Okay. So I'm leaning towards these components.

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021&Tpk=antec+900

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166


How do these items look? Do these look good and relatively cutting edge for the money?

I don't know about motherboard and video cards yet.

If having two video cards doesn't give me that much of a performance increase, it's not imperative and probably best I don't get two right now, to reduce the overall costs.

I'm leaning towards this video card?? One of them... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130325


How does this look as a motherboard? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

****. I forget I'd need a new hard drive as well. Might need to get another crappy audio card as well because the computer I'm using will still be used. Argh.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Graphics cards are always difficult to buy because the best on the market is usually so expensive it's a silly purchase, but you don't want to get something too old which will be outdated when you buy it. Nvidia's 9800 range is top of the tree at the moment but the 8800 range is still amazing, and their price is reducing.

The 8800 range worth looking at is the 8800GT, 8800GTS and the 8800GTX (increasing in performance in that list).

Good 8800GT - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130319
Good 8800GTS - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143119
Good 8800GTX - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143080

As you see the price on those goes up significantly, so when you know how much you can spend you'll know where you sit. Note none of those cards are poor, they will all run Crysis on high or more, I have the 8800GT and the game looks beautiful, but I won't have the longevity of GTS buyers.


The other stuff in your list looks fine, although I'm not familiar with the brand of RAM so wouldn't buy it myself. I'd probably look at Crucial Ballistix / OCZ / Corsair instead.

 

[Raziaar]

The G.Skill ram seems to be very popular on newegg among customers. And has won customer choice awards for the different types. The type I have was one of them, for the ancient DDR pc3200 400mhz ram... which I have in my computer now and bought not long ago.

And yeah, I'm leaning more towards an 8800 gts


Figured I'd get these as a hard drive and sound card. I know the sound card is a cheapo thing... but what I have in my computer and I've been satisfied with for soooo many years, is something worth probably 50 cents.

Sound Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102002

Hard Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262

I'd get a hard drive with more room, but I see little need as my brother already has two 512gb external hard drives, and I just need something with more space than my current 110 gig hard drive. Plus the price is now up to about 1100 dollars including shipping for all this stuff, and It's a little above what I'd ideally like.

 

[VirusType2]

I'd just get the WD AAKS 750GB OEM HDD SATA II for $138. It's efficient, quiet, fast, and won't cramp you later down the road.

Most motherboards only have 4 sata slots, so why fill them with a bunch of little HDD's.

also recommend a LITE-ON OEM DVD DL SATA (or EIDE) burner. $20 (single layer) -$40 (DL w/lightscribe)

 

[hool10]

IMO I would get onboard audio because you won't notice a difference and many mobos have HD audio on them. The case is actually silent if you set the fans on low and has plenty of room. The 8800 GTX is expensive, yet even today almost beats, and sometimes does, the 9800 even. Also I would highly urge you to not get dual video cards. Just look up the problems on that setup. I have these components for a computer:
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817189008
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066
MOBO: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048
CASE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
V. Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072
CPU Heatsink: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835109140
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
That heatsink is so good at removing heat! The Quad Core is amazing at OC'ing as well and can easily achieve 3GHz. I also highly recommend 64bit Windows Vista. Ask around here and it has come a long way.

 

[Druckles]

Not really worth saying much at this point. Except to point out if you're getting the top of the line system, don't wimp out of a decent power supply. I'd recommend Corsair. But that's about it. You can probably figure out how much power you'd need when you get it.

If you're going for the top of the range graphics cards, I'd say get one 9800. It then gives you the option to go dual if necessary, although you'll probably find it not to be.

Everyone else seems to have covered pretty much everything else

 

[Druckles]

I'd actually recommend more than the 520. 600+ would give you more room to maneuver in the future should you end up wanting SLI. But yeah, that PSU is the one I went for 6 months ago. It's done a damn fine job.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Just for the record, I'm running 4 gigs of G'skill and I have no complaints with them. Cheap and get the job done.

 

[Pesmerga]

500w is more than adequate for a non-SLI system.

 

[Krynn72]

The g.skill ram you linked to is pretty slow. Its got unimpressive timings at 5-5-5-15. I personally wouldnt get any ram thats over 4-4-4-12.

 

[Raziaar]

The g.skill ram you linked to is pretty slow. Its got unimpressive timings at 5-5-5-15. I personally wouldnt get any ram thats over 4-4-4-12.

Hmm...

What exact difference does 1066 and 800 make anyways? some motherboards seem to support up to 1066(very few) and most seem to support 800.

Because I could get some with better timings... OCZ, but it's only DDR2 800 6400.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267

 

[Raziaar]

Welp, I've pretty much come to a final conclusion now.

Unless anybody can swap out something here for something that is better for CHEAPER, I am going with what I have, because I can't afford anything more expensive. I also realized I am going to salvage my current DVD drive/burner which has served me faithfully for years, so I won't be needing that.

Anyways. Here goes.

Computer Case: Antec 900 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021&Tpk=antec+900

Power Supply: Corsair 520HX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139001

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L(why does it say replaced by so and so?) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4ghz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

Video Card: EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 512MB 256bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130325

Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2 800 PC6400 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0(I wanted larger, but price is a concern. 500gb will be plenty anyways) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073



It comes to around 1077 dollars or so... including shipping. There is about 70 dollars worth of rebates which I will be sending in.

 

[VirusType2]

the antec 900 holds 6 hard drives and 3 optical drives. I've got 6 hard drives in mine. You could get something cheaper and smaller, and a lot quieter. i do recommend something like it though - with fans that blow on the hard drives, and a fan that vents from the top.

Just FYI Ram timings can make a big difference in ram speed - at least thats what I've heard

The caviar 500 is a little slower and louder, and uses a little more power (possibly insignificant in these details though) than the 750 and the 500 still costs the same per GB. So I still recommend the 750. I have two 750's and the 500.

I think 2GB is pretty much the limit for RAM unless you use a 64 bit OS.

 

[Raziaar]

I do intend in time eventually to upgrade to a 64 bit.

And 3 gig is the limit... more like 3 and a half almost.

Anyways, about the case, what sort of case can I get that will be cheaper than the antec 900 but still as good, just smaller? I certainly don't need that much room for drives and stuff. Maybe something that can be offset enough that will let me get the 750 Gig hard drive without increasing my expense?

 

[VirusType2]

there are new ones all the time. some of them are very very cool looking. you'd have to look.

and 3.5 GB limit for 32 bit or 64 bit? I thought it was more like 2.5 for 32 bit.

 

[Raziaar]

there are new ones all the time. some of them are very very cool looking. you'd have to look.

and 3.5 GB limit for 32 bit or 64 bit? I thought it was more like 2.5 for 32 bit.

I guess I'll look then.

Anyways... 3.12 gig limit apparently I guess, and it's for 32 bit.

 

[Pesmerga]

I've no idea why you'd get anything more than 2gb of RAM, especially at decent speeds.

 

[Raziaar]

I've no idea why you'd get anything more than 2gb of RAM, especially at decent speeds.

Because it's so cheap?

Is there no need? I might take a look at just getting two gigs of the ram... depending on how much it will let me save over the 4 gigs.

Also, I'm leaning more towards this case now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166004

Which will let me be able to afford the 750 gig hard drive, and end up about 10 dollars cheaper than before. I don't care about the noise complaints, as they say it keeps the case and components very cool which is a plus in my book. Besides, the current case I have is probably noisier than that one... and the one my step mom is using I know for a fact is noisier than the one I currently have. lol

 

[Raziaar]

Hmm I haven't even looked at the possibilities of better processor... I figured that one there was the best.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

I wouldn't change the CPU, I have the Q6600 OCed and it's simply incredible at multi application processing, it's really clever working out how to split the load best. Good choice with the new PSU, excellent brand and model will serve you well.

I really dislike the popular antec 900 case which I think looks like an APC with too much mesh, but apparently it's really easy to mod with, including plenty of space for potential upgrades. Make sure you consider those things as well as air flow with the case you choose.

 

[Raziaar]

I've changed my case choice as I noted above, mostly due to price reasons than anything, but still it's apparently a really good case that keeps things really cool... and the only problems I was reading mostly was due to noise, but I can handle noise and it's probably quieter than my current computer.


I really have to make a final decision tonight though, as I think we'll be purchasing this thing tonight.

I've never been an overclocker. Have never overclocked my CPU or my GPU or my RAM or anything... doesn't mean I won't now, but I'm completely naive when it comes to overclocking and the dangers associated with it...

So I have to find something that will be best suited for me as a gamer who also uses sometimes CPU intensive applications for rendering.

I'm struggling between the Q6600 and the E8400


Somebody from toms hardware forums

I always suggest the Intel E6750 rather than Q6600 because the quad Q6600 is NOT, repeat NOT faster than the dual core E6750 in MOST apps and ALL games. Moreover, the E6750 costs $100 less than the quad. People(quad fanbois) might disagree with the argument that the quad is better for futureproofing and that future softwares n games would use 4 cores. I agree... but this future is at least a couple of years from now...and by that time everyone including yourself would be upgrading to the 32nm processors. So yeah, get the E6750. Its way ahead of the q6600 in terms of price/performance. Chek out tom's charts.

 

[hool10]

Well look at it this way Raz, how many times will you upgrade the CPU? You never upgrade the CPU, especially if it has 4 CPU's on it. IMO I think the links that you listed kick so major butt and I can't wait to see it built so take pics. Get Vista as well or else you're missing out on DX10 which is really something. *Oh and the case is noisy, but becuase it's so roomy, you will set all the fans on low. On low it's silent but everybody complains when it's on high. I mean who the hell keeps all the fans on it high which you set manually?

 

[Raziaar]

I didn't even know you could change case fan speeds.

I keep reading everything though and there seems to be a big concensus that the duo core E8400 is definitely more suited to todays needs, especially since so few things utilize quad processors and utilize them well, and the duo cores actually doing better than the quads because of this... and there being a huge uncertainty of how many years it'll take before quad core application and game development really comes into its own.

I wish I had a 64 bit operating system, but... I can't afford a new operating system, and I certainly can't afford the expensive behemoth that Vista is.

I do prefer XP anyways, especially compared to all the problems I hear about Vista.

However I wouldn't say no to anybody who offers me a free Vista. lol



ARRGGGH! Can't decide on Q6600 or E8400!! Quad Core vs Duo Core. ARGH!

Found this link... reading it now http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248327-28-overclocked-q6600-e8400-compared-benchmarks-included


You know... I should be thanking my lucky stars my dad would even want to buy me a computer like this to save from a bad computer purchase his wife would make... but wow, does it SUCK to have to research and select components for a new computer in literally a day.

 

[Asus]

I would get a E8400 unless you have a reason to go quad. The clock speed is performance that programmers don't have to code for. If you either know of a specific game that gives you more FPS or effects with quad core or use programs that take advantage of more than 2 cores or you just multi-task a hell of a lot (who knows, maybe all of the above and at the same time)...then get a quad. Q6600 @2.4GHz is cheap. Q9300 @2.5GHz is fast, cool and low on power usage (45nm). The E8400 @3GHz is also 45nm.

Review with all 3.

This is how I looked at it for my situation.
E8400: A bit faster frame rate on most games. Clock speed gives maybe 10% average faster on anything in general. (wild guess)
Q9300: Not that much lower fps in games (video card is the bottleneck usually even with 8800's). Video encodings take almost half as long which can be a few hours normally. Win

 

[VirusType2]

I had done all the research and was going with the E8400 myself, but haven't done it yet. (that was a couple months ago though)

Looks like they have some good alternative options out now

 

[Raziaar]

Heh. I've never bounced back and forth so much in my life before.

I'm still trying to decide guys... just five minutes earlier I was leaning towards Q6600, but now I'm leaning towards E8400. Could be different in the next 30 minutes. One reason why I am also leaning towards the E8400 is to get this cooler for it, so I can overclock well... and the lower price will help me justify getting the cooler and still be in my budget without much price change at all.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134





EDIT:

My final decisions I think.

Case: Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-BA Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail

Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX 520W ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply - Retail

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail

FAN/HEATSINK: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

Video Card: EVGA 512-P3-N841-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR8002GK - Retail

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


Price: $953.91
Shipping: 25.28

Grand Total: $979.19


I have changed some things... liked dropped back down to the 500 gig hard drive, and reduced my total ram to 2 gigs, and the cooler I chose versus the Zalman... in the spirit of keeping the price below 1000 dollars.

 

[VirusType2]

The OEM stuff doesn't come with SATA wires, so you have to buy however many you need and whatever length. I bought 2 extras when I bought one, to not have to pay shipping again. it's a good thing because I'm using all of them now.


That is a full size case. It will be scary huge gigantica FYI. It's got the dimensions listed, I suggest you realize them first.

 

[Raziaar]

The OEM stuff doesn't come with SATA wires, so you have to buy however many you need and whatever length. I bought 2 extras when I bought one, to not have to pay shipping again. it's a good thing because I'm using all of them now.


That is a full size case. It will be scary huge gigantica FYI. It's got the dimensions listed, I suggest you realize them first.

Aren't full sized cases cooler? I didn't notice any price variations between full sized and mid sized cases.

And yes, I was thinking about the SATA wires! Thank you! I'll grab myself some. How many would I need? I imagine just one for the hard drive?

 

[VirusType2]

Aren't full sized cases cooler? I didn't notice any price variations between full sized and mid sized cases.

And yes, I was thinking about the SATA wires! Thank you! I'll grab myself some. How many would I need? I imagine just one for the hard drive?

Yea, just one sounds like. You probably wont need to buy extra.

Reason I said that is because I ordered a bunch of wires separately once from www.monoprice.com. the sata wires were only like $3 but shipping was about $7 so I bought extra wires.

ALSO because I was unsure of the length I needed, which is the reason I was hinting about the size of your case. However, I have a mid tower and all of the wires were plenty long enough, even the short ones which are about 6" i guess.


I previously owned a Micro ATX computer - these are the towers you see on display at retail stores.

when I got my antec 900 (a mid tower), it was twice as big. Was not really expecting that. I mean, the footprint is about the same, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Asus]

FYI you won't need the Arctic Silver 5 for the CPU. The cooler you are buying comes with better thermal paste pre-applied on the bottom (not a pad). Plus it is not conductive while Arctic Silver 5 is (in case you get some where it is not supposed to be).
MX-2 vs AS5

The motherboard comes with 2 SATA cables...

 

[Raziaar]

FYI you won't need the Arctic Silver 5 for the CPU. The cooler you are buying comes with better thermal paste on the bottom (not a pad). Plus it is not conductive while Arctic Silver 5 is.
MX-2 vs AS5

The motherboard comes with 2 SATA cables...

You're awesome Asus! I have my head so wrapped up in having to make all these quick decisions that I know I'm not doing everything the best I can, and so that's why I'm asking all of you for your great help.

So I can cross out the SATA cable, thankfully. I can cross out the thermal paste, thankfully.

I wasn't aware that the sticky stuff on the cooler was better than the arctic silver, as people generally said to use arctic 5. Thanks!

 

[Asus]

It might be better to buy a case with just 2 120mm fans. No low side vents or 80mm fans. Bigger fans move more air and are able to do so while spinning slower (less noise). And low side vents let the cold air out before it gets to cool the CPU etc.

It isn't fancy but it would probably do a better job cooling and with less noise. And it cost less.
Case + front 120mm fan

 

[Raziaar]

It might be better to buy a case with just 2 120mm fans. No low side vents or 80mm fans. Bigger fans move more air and are able to do so while spinning slower (less noise). And low side vents let the cold air out before it gets to cool the CPU etc.

It isn't fancy but it would probably do a better job cooling and with less noise. And it cost less.
Case + front 120mm fan

To be honest, I don't care much about looks, more of a function guy. My current case looks like shit and I don't keep it prettied up. It always sits out of site and just contributes a blue glow to my room in the dark.

I'll look into the links you posted.

 

[Asus]

It's hard finding a case like I mentioned. So many have side fans but no front fans. ha
Here is an interesting one. A little more $ up front although the rebate helps plus free shipping. It has 2 120mm fans. Even has noise padding on the side panel. Not sure if you like doors or not though.