A new reason to not cheat?

[phantomdesign]

Just a small theory.

Why not cheat? Why not give out your subscription info/CD key?

From what I’ve picked up, everyone has some sort of steam account, whether you bought the game in the box or pay the subscription fee. The subscription of course lets you download practically while the account included in the box lets you play online.

So everyone has a specific number that is linked on a central database(steam)

Now, your number is a unique identifier. Chances are most of you don’t write your own cheats. So, 98% of cheats will be ready for download online. Now, just as easy as you can download the cheat, and one else can download the cheat. So someone finds the cheat, and sends it to valve, which adds the cheat to the cheat database.

So nearly all cheats are logged on the central database(steam).

Now, here comes the real kicker. If you connect these two concepts, most people want their servers cheater free. So, when you ask to join their server, your unique ID # is compared to the central database. If you are on the cheater list, you loose, and don’t get to join. This also makes it difficult for cheaters to test their cheats. They won’t want their subscription/ID# to be banned. Guess who’s the test-rat? You.

So, with this central database (steam), cheating can seriously make it difficult to play multiplayer.

Now, I’m asking, with this central database, will it really be worth cheating if you get banned for 6 months from 98% of servers? If your friend throws your ID# or Subscription info in the net, what accounts do you think cheaters will want to use? Their own?



Truthfully cheating isn’t any fun anyways. So you may be able to get a few extra kills, but you know it is not your skill that is winning the round. You might as well go watch TV and make a robot play Half-Life 2 or Counterstrike for you. What is the point of pissing off people you don’t know? They don’t think you are cool.

In conclusion, if you want to not have any fun, this time cheating won’t ruin the game for everyone else, JUST YOU.


…just a thought
------------------------------------------------------
Resources for further reading: (generally you don’t need to read past the first post)

Information about the hacker, the delay, and the status of the beta.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=12627

The original request for help from Gabe.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=10692

“THE REAL DEAL with the HL2 source” He obviously knows what he is talking about. As a programmer, I can verify all info in the first post.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=12128

This one discusses differences between the E3 video & the Beta screenshots.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=11691

Interesting read:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=12530

More stuff about why the beta is incomplete & valve in on schedule:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=12428

Some very well done research on technical graphics issues:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/sho...;threadid=12128

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Make them all play on the same server and wonder why their cheats aren’t helping.

this is something I tend to point out in hacker vs non-hacker debates.

the arguement of the hacker (well in essence they arent really hackers.. since they use Hacks that were created by others.. so lets refer to them as what they really are..)

"exploiters" tend to argue that they arent ruining the game for anyone, and that "they paid for their game, and should be allowed to do what they want to it."
another popular retort by most "exploiters" is "If you dont like it, play on a LAN."

if you were to attack their logic you would realize (as I pointed out in numerous other debates) that it actually boils down to one thing, and that is attitude.

there are just assholes out there pure and simple, wether they be immature, spoiled, lamers, moron, etc.. their actions are driven by poor attitudes.
No amount of logic can impress, or sway these individuals, and Im praying for the day that software companies start revoking playing rights altogether for "exploiting".

remember children the simple logic behind it is.
Anyone can download a cheat and exploit their game.. you are NOTHING special by doing so.
Honor is a trait worth of respect, not a weakness.

bah I started ranting but I deleted it, as its nothing new.

 

[Chris D]

Good post

 

[phantomdesign]

I'm not a HeadCrab anymore! I officially have NO LIFE!

 

[Chris D]

Just wait until you have 1300 posts like me Then you have no life.

 

[phantomdesign]

I'm not talking about a server thinking you are cheating, but something in the valve cheat database (which is 100% KNOWN to be a cheat) which is detected ON YOUR COMPUTER.

I'm an extremly good player and get accused all the time, but I've never cheated, so I wouldn't want individual servers to have that power.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Originally posted by Efil_Flah
I dont agree the ID being recorded with cheating because the cheat itself is a hack for a mod, and not all hacks are cheat related. And sometimes the server admins who are noobs will think your cheating when you play too good. So therefore I say it should be left upto individual server records wether to accept you or not.

:cheers:

Phantomdesign, I love how you structure the topics you post, as I complemented you on some of your others. (the links arent working though

Efil_Flah, what Phantom is refering to is actual cheats, with steam ... it could and should be able to detect said cheats being noted in the core database... therefore it wouldnt be a matter of an admin, or other player reporting you, since they would have no say.
Steam however would DETECT and REPORT your info, and we would be rid of one more cheater in online play.
(that is hypothetical Im not stating you cheat)

--
edit: (damnit Phantom you beat me to the punch, why am I so long winded?)

 

[phantomdesign]

(fixed links below...I think)



Resources for further reading: (generally you don’t need to read past the first post)

Information about the hacker, the delay, and the status of the beta.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12627

The original request for help from Gabe.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10692

“THE REAL DEAL with the HL2 source” He obviously knows what he is talking about. As a programmer, I can verify all info in the first post.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12128

This one discusses differences between the E3 video & the Beta screenshots.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11691

Interesting read:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12530

More stuff about why the beta is incomplete & valve in on schedule:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12428

Some very well done research on technical graphics issues:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12128

 

[phantomdesign]

Originally posted by Efil_Flah
Well then in that case, there will be alot of curious people still who would want to try to see what cheats are like but never intend to use it in public servers. then get a records of them cheating when they were doing it just out of curiosity like smoking cigarette or somethin and not keeping the habbit.. :dork:

I have no sympathy for cheaters. The ones who want to test some cheats can start their own server or join one of the (anti-cheat disabled) servers. I don't think there is any punishment for creating your own server and cheating there. You could always disconnect from the internet and create a "LAN game."

And about the smoking comparison...what about the ones who get hooked? It's better to avoid them in the first place!

I say download some more MODs, NOT cheats.

 

[Faravid]

I am hooked to smokes, but I can quit it if I want to, but it's a habit.
BTW, You can get hooked on the smokes with first try, that happened to my friend. =)

Going little off topic though.

 

[phantomdesign]

Enough off topic chat about smoking.




I thought internet cafes would have to get their own license. Anyways, no one touches my computer, and if people have that problem, they’ll just have to go play on the cheater servers (and ban their little brother from touching the computer).

Maybe a warning system would work good. People would at least know what they are getting in to.

1st cheat= warning
2nd cheat=1 month ban (from most servers except cheat ones)
3rd, 4th, 5th, etc…=6 month ban

 

[Dark Auro]

Kind of off topic but, did you get that "Unleash the headcrabs" thing from the PHL delay movie. If you did, it's release the headcrabs, not unleash.

 

[OCybrManO]

No, we keep them on a leash in these forums...

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Efil_Flah
Well you never get hooked on smokes on the first try. Thats a fact!..

And reguarding the cheat thingie.. there are other possibilities in example where you have 7 simblings in a house who share same game but one who dl a cheat is not the one who bought it, so then Valve would face alot of troubles to customer service dep. Same applies for Internet cafe's and private game party organizations.

The home should be like Karate class, one kid kicks below the belt and the entire group does push-ups. Internet Cafe's shouldn't give power user rights to customers anyway. They shouldn't be able to download and install cheats to begin with.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Originally posted by phantomdesign
In conclusion, if you want to not have any fun, this time cheating won’t ruin the game for everyone else.

omg! so beautifully written.. brings a tear to my eye.. :dork:
and couldn't agree with u more.. i do hope that pple keep it in mind that u can control the cheating that goes on, but u won't eliminate it, with that said it will be nice to be playing in cheat free servers.

Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
remember children the simple logic behind it is.
Anyone can download a cheat and exploit their game.. you are NOTHING special by doing so.
Honor is a trait worth of respect, not a weakness.

another good post, i like that last bit u posted it couldn't be any more truthful

about 6 month bans..hmm.. maybe the first 1-2 times a 6 month ban is okay, but when u have cheated 3, 4, 5, 6+ times, clearly u are not getting the message and i believe its fair to hand out 1 year bans.

some of u may think thats harsh.. but i feel that if u haven't learned ur lesson from a 6 month ban, than u won't learn any time soon and 1 year is a good amount of time to figure out why cheating is not tolerated.

opinions on number of times cheated and length of time on bans?

 

[alehm]

So when you say "unleash the headcrabs" do you mean unleashing real headcrabs on the cheaters? Or unleashing the new posters here to ask the same questions a billion times over and be called idiots and STFU's to and fro? heheh j/k

 

[ferd]

I think there should be some sort of regulation that makes sure that wehn there is enough proof that a players cheated, he should be banned for a short period. Everywhere.... If he does it again, well then a permanent ban on all servers who are using the system. Maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to to setup some servers that arent secured, and where cheaters can actually cheat as much as they want. Maybe we can trace new cheats that way...(just guessing here). Maybe there should be some sort of way to let the server take demo's... An example: An admin thinks someone is cheating, but VAC (or something else) cant seem to find it. You tell the server to take a personal demo of that client (not HLTV because then you cant find enough stuff) but a demo like you would record one of your own. Make sure its transmitted to the server (or something else) and then the admin can take a good look at it and atleast check if there is WH, or maybe the player had some impossible reflexes. The admin can also check if he was using banned cmd (Interp, cl_lw and things like that). Then a third should re-check it. And if they both agree the player can be banned.

Yes Read It All!

 

[ferd]

Originally posted by iamironsam
The home should be like Karate class, one kid kicks below the belt and the entire group does push-ups. Internet Cafe's shouldn't give power user rights to customers anyway. They shouldn't be able to download and install cheats to begin with.

Yup, and maybe they could put it somewhere in the readme file before you install HL2... "The user carries all responsibility when cheats are found on his system."

This would mean you have to make sure no one else does.

 

[Sp00fman]

if steam/VAC detects a cheat, it should auto remove it and place an annoying warning message in the game for a month. another violation should mean a ban. 3 months is enough i think, if someone banned me from CS for a week i'd go crazy.

(gotta love having multiple CD-keys )

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by iamironsam
The home should be like Karate class, one kid kicks below the belt and the entire group does push-ups. Internet Cafe's shouldn't give power user rights to customers anyway. They shouldn't be able to download and install cheats to begin with.

I for one disagree. I hate cheating, but punishing a whole for one person's mistake is simply unfair. Besides that, you Americans think you can sue for anything, what's to say someone who was said to be cheated wouldn't just sue valve for defamation or some other bullshit you can sue for in the states. Just thought I'd let you know that the rest of the world thinks that the United States' justice system is a joke. But getting back to the original point, you know where else they punished groups of people for one person's mistake.... hmm, Auschwitz comes to mind. If you don't believe me or think that this is nothing like that situation, just take a look at the Maus books by Art Spiegelman. That's why such a system couldn't work, because multiple users would be punished for one person's actions.

 

[DoloS^^]

I think you guys need to realize that when there is a will there is ALWAYS a way. Sure you can get more stuff to stop them but then someone will figure a way around it it is a never ending cycle. I have seen this type of thing on virtually every online game I have ever played it's sad but true you guys will find this out sooner or later. But for now have fun beating your heads up against the wall of a pipe dream.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Originally posted by Deadlor
I for one disagree. I hate cheating, but punishing a whole for one person's mistake is simply unfair. Besides that, you Americans think you can sue for anything, what's to say someone who was said to be cheated wouldn't just sue valve for defamation or some other bullshit you can sue for in the states. Just thought I'd let you know that the rest of the world thinks that the United States' justice system is a joke. But getting back to the original point, you know where else they punished groups of people for one person's mistake.... hmm, Auschwitz comes to mind. If you don't believe me or think that this is nothing like that situation, just take a look at the Maus books by Art Spiegelman. That's why such a system couldn't work, because multiple users would be punished for one person's actions.

Er, how do you know that he is an American? The system he suggested I also disagree with.

But now I must say, frivalous cases are frequently thrown out. The McDonald's one about the fat guy, etc. Judges all threw them out. The only ones that made it are ones like the coffee one, whereas the coffee really WAS heated up far too much. It burned that woman badly, wheras at regular temperature it wouldn't have done as much.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Deadlor
I for one disagree. I hate cheating, but punishing a whole for one person's mistake is simply unfair. Besides that, you Americans think you can sue for anything, what's to say someone who was said to be cheated wouldn't just sue valve for defamation or some other bullshit you can sue for in the states. Just thought I'd let you know that the rest of the world thinks that the United States' justice system is a joke. But getting back to the original point, you know where else they punished groups of people for one person's mistake.... hmm, Auschwitz comes to mind. If you don't believe me or think that this is nothing like that situation, just take a look at the Maus books by Art Spiegelman. That's why such a system couldn't work, because multiple users would be punished for one person's actions.

Don't insult my country because of its problems. I'm quite sure your country isn't perfect, either. I'm also quite sure you don't have the freedoms I have. You didn't have to post such a rude comment about our justice system, or anything for that matter. Sometimes I'm infurriated by it ,myself, but it's my country...my problem, not yours! Keep it to yourself, next time.

-Ghost.

BTW: Auscwitz = Genocide, not punishment. Get it straight.

 

[symptom]

I don't even read the other options, UNLESH THE HEADCRABS is just too classic and can't be passed up.

 

[DoloS^^]

I tend to ignore such ignorant comments from people who do not even live in my country nor have probably even visited.

 

[Deadlor]

Haha I'm canadian and yes I've been to the states tons of times, hell my mom's American. The point I'm trying to make is these redneck conservatives want to police everything. I'm Canadian. Maybe the news we get from the dogsleds delivered to our igloos every morning is bullshit, but every single european country I visited everyone had something negative to say about the American justice system.

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by DoloS^^
I tend to ignore such ignorant comments from people who do not even live in my country nor have probably even visited.

Oh so you prefer ignorant Americans.

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
Don't insult my country because of its problems. I'm quite sure your country isn't perfect, either. I'm also quite sure you don't have the freedoms I have. You didn't have to post such a rude comment about our justice system, or anything for that matter. Sometimes I'm infurriated by it ,myself, but it's my country...my problem, not yours! Keep it to yourself, next time.

-Ghost.

BTW: Auscwitz = Genocide, not punishment. Get it straight.

I wasn't talking about genocide, I was talking about mistreatment for the group of prisoners if someone stepped out of line. Read Maus, which is non-fiction, and my original post.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

STOP IT!!! Not all conservatives are rednecks, hell, rednecks hate the govt, for the most part. I don't believe in having cameras in my house, or my telephones being tapped, without warrant. But cameras in public, and a closed border, sound mighty fine to me. Let us deal with things on our own. You don't know anything about freedom, my friend. But I guess things never change. America's job is to protect the world from bad guys, and get stabbed in the back, isn't that right?

-Ghost.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

BTW: I'm sure each European country has something negative to say about eachother, right? I'm also sure there are people who like America. Of course you'll probably say only two, but what the hell, there's two more on our side.

-Ghost.

I don't want to get in a "my country is better" fight.
I just don't want you dissing my country. Love your country, and I'll love mine. End of discussion.

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
STOP IT!!! Not all conservatives are rednecks, hell, rednecks hate the govt, for the most part. I don't believe in having cameras in my house, or my telephones being tapped, without warrant. But cameras in public, and a closed border, sound mighty fine to me. Let us deal with things on our own. You don't know anything about freedom, my friend. But I guess things never change. America's job is to protect the world from bad guys, and get stabbed in the back, isn't that right?

-Ghost.

Sorry, but in my eyes, you just proved my point. Cameras in public and closed borders? And stereotyping is not all wrong. Who elected America to protect the world from bad guys? I sure know I never cast a vote for that. And the man leading your country is a moron anyways, and the only big decisions that affect other countries are made by that moron. I'm not saying I don't like all Americans, just the ones who are such goddamn hard liner conservatives. But why are we even discussing this? I know I brought it up but the point I'm trying to make is shit like cheating should be on a server per server basis and not just a ****ing worldwide ban.

 

[SIN55]

keep in mind that Deadlor is not speaking for all of us Canadians, I'm not gonna go on a nationalistic rampage on a Half-Life 2 forum, take your political opinions elsewhere Deadlor, who gives a crap about politics, we are in a gaming forum. Find some better analogies like punishing a whole café would be like throwing out a basket of apples because one of the apples is infested. See, simple, colorful, we get the point.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

We have a responsibility to human life. As human beings, we cannot allow injustice to flourish. Seeing as we're the strongest, we're the most inclined. The strong are here to protect the weak. At least that's what I believe...

Could be wrong, but I doubt it.

-Ghost.

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
We have a responsibility to human life. As human beings, we cannot allow injustice to flourish. Seeing as we're the strongest, we're the most inclined. The strong are here to protect the weak. At least that's what I believe...

Could be wrong, but I doubt it.

-Ghost.

All right, all right I agree with you on that. Let's just drop the whole debate, it started out on the wrong foot anyways. All I'm saying is that this goddamn talk about CD-key banning for that would be injust simply on the basis that many computers with Half-Life on it have many users who may not even be aware that another is cheating, thus getting their CD-Key banned. And it's not black and white "You let that person use the computer so you're responsible for all their actions." What if it was say a sibling or someone who thought it'd be funny if you couldn't play HL2 online anymore for say 6 months. There are grey areas and because there are grey areas there cannot be one all-encompassing rule like this.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Sir, conservatism is common sense.

 

[SIN55]

Originally posted by Deadlor
What if it was say a sibling or someone who thought it'd be funny if you couldn't play HL2 online anymore for say 6 months. There are grey areas and because there are grey areas there cannot be one all-encompassing rule like this.

well, the owner could always beat the living piss out of the sibling, and he'll get the idea... another way would be to password protect your steam account. If sibling want to play then they should get their own godamn game and/or computer if they can't respect yours. My point is, if your brother wants to play so much, then getting himself banned is not the way to go, and if he's a little brat, then password protect, my friend.

 

[Deadlor]

I'm 18 now and my siblings are older too so that's not really a problem. All I'm saying is you cannot account for all cases and there's bound to be some injustices with this method of cheat protection. And besides that there'll always be a new workaround and people will be able to cheat. Another what if is that what if something went wrong with Steam and it never updated your software and a different version number was detected and so you were put on the cheaters list. Then you're screwed because you have to wait six months to play again.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

This is true. We, and VALVe, cannot punish those who have committed no wrong. A way to fix this is difficult, and VALVe's working hard on that right now. It's good to hear the whole theft madness has worn down with them, as well. Now that that's over, they're hard at work, at getting the game out this year.

-Ghost.

 

[SIN55]

then I think the solution could be 3 to 7 days banning... it's just enough to make you hold back from cheating, and its short enough if you are curious cheater/curious sibling/steam malfunction/all other explanations

 

[Deadlor]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
This is true. We, and VALVe, cannot punish those who have committed no wrong. A way to fix this is difficult, and VALVe's working hard on that right now. It's good to hear the whole theft madness has worn down with them, as well. Now that that's over they're hard at work, at getting the game out this year.

-Ghost.

I really hope so. And I hope that they can get a fix out to stop those damn cheaters and protect user's interests. But as to it being released this year, I know it's been discussed to death, but if they're releasing Condition Zero Nov 18th, Vivendi, being the asses that they are, are probably not going to want to have another one of it's products in direct competition with it for holiday sales. But hopefully I'm wrong and Vivendi will think it can cash in on both.