A Protest Is Justified And Necessary

[Icarus]

Sickmind, every single aspect of your arguement has come under fire...

1. Stop whining about free speech, this isn't free speech. If you want free speech, go shout it from your lawn, or go print a newspaper that says your opinons. Free speech deals with government, not your fellow citizens. This forum is owned by someone. It's the same as a house, if I don't want you shouting your opinons in my house I can kick you out and not worry about free speech. Go somewhere else with your "protest"

2. You think that this post is going to cause all these die-hard HL2 fans to hold off for two months on buying the game they have been looking foreward to for years? You want to protest not being able to play it soon by asking people not to buy it for two months? You are worse than what you claim VU is.

3. Half-life 2, the game, has been delayed only once, who cares about a preload delay, that isn't the full game. And the CSS beta for the same reason.

4. You aren't speaking to everyone that is going to buy the game. Even on the impossible chance everyone that reads this thread waits for two months, it won't even dent HL2's sales.

 

[Agent.M]

You'll be at the front of the queue when the bloody game is released and you know it.

...... Tru Dat! :smoking:

 

[Gossoon]

I sympathize with sickmind, and partially agree with him. Luckily it's a moot point for me because I have the coupon and won't actually be spending any money on the game. Valve/Vivendi haven't been evil or abusive, just incredibly clueless on how to maintain a fanbase. I'm not angry at all, just really effing tired of waiting.

The real abuse around here is by fanboys and mods who can't tolerate differing opinions. Sure, you may own this board but piss enough people off and all you'll have is tumbleweeds. Respect and patience goes both ways. Maybe this is kind of a Euro vs. American thing. Most of the flamers and whatnots are probably from the US and we like to argue and insult people and demand change, it's what makes us us, and I think the rest of the world takes it way too seriously. Anyway, I forgot my original point. Does anyone remember it?

 

[Wildhound]

Most of the flamers and whatnots are probably from the US and we like to argue and insult people and demand change,

So do we: when we agree that something is wrong and needs changing.

Edit: You're right Chris, I won't go down that road again.

 

[Chris D]

Alright, let's keep this to the topic at hand.
There's no reason for this to be a US vs Europe war...

 

[Sickmind]

Thanks for the support Gossoon. I can see that so far mine is an unpopular view...I can only hope there is a silent majority lurking out there who also shares my view.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The really annoying thing is this -> IF you email Valve and say "Retailers have set the release date for November !! Is this true??" then Valve respond with something like "It's not from us". Ok that's great but they know it's coming in November but insist on stringing us along giving us hope it could be out much earlier.

We all saw how Vivendi anallised the community with Condition-Zero.
CZ went gold in November - >http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28718
Release Party for condition-Zero in December
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/29728/

Condition-Zero released MARCH 23rd
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/31129/

 

[Art_Crime]

Sickmind, I completely agree with you, and will help you protest in any way, shape or form. This whole Valve thing has become absurd, and I stand with you.

 

[Mountain Man]

i propose that no one buy this game till at least january 2005

You go ahead and do that.

 

[Chris D]

Wow, three people aren't buying HL2 on release day. Just another few million to go...

 

[Hot Soup]

Put succinctly - it's a video game and it's effects upon a person are inconsequential and irrelevant. It gets delayed? Big whoop.

I mean seriously if it comes out the end of sept or oct or christmas ... it doesnt matter. As long as the game is finished and released as it's meant to be that will be that. I'd love it as much as the next forumer if it came out in the shortest possible time but ... if it doesn't well ..... so what ?

Also you are surprised that a company wants to generate maximum revenue possible? Your surprised that people who put money and work into something want their pay day ?

Differing opinions are fine but I just see these arguments / threads / topics as an irrelevance. I find it facsinating that after so long this unfinished game can bring up such passion but I guess I don't quite understand the point.

"Silent majority shares my view"

i confess I don't see a point here :/

 

[UltimaGecko]

Sickmind, every single aspect of your arguement has come under fire...

1. Stop whining about free speech, this isn't free speech. If you want free speech, go shout it from your lawn, or go print a newspaper that says your opinons. Free speech deals with government, not your fellow citizens. This forum is owned by someone. It's the same as a house, if I don't want you shouting your opinons in my house I can kick you out and not worry about free speech. Go somewhere else with your "protest"

Just to help people as a reference (...if for some reason they haven't passed 7th grade social studies) and build on the above statement:

1. You cannot use free speech as an argument to produce libel (writing false information about someone in order to injure their reputation (some magazines do this about celebrities, but they don't care)) and slander (same as libel, just in spoken word).

[technically the quote above is actually false, you can shout whatever you want about your neighboring citizens as long as you do not portray false information as fact; so "I hate MonkeyMan333!" isn't libel, however "MonkeyMan333 likes hot monkey secks!" could be.]

2. Private property (and essentially forums) are allowed to enforce speech limitations as they see fit - it's there stuff and you came there of your own free will. If someone asks you to leave their property you better do it. Although, feel free to run out onto the street and yell obscenities at their house - as long as you're not disturbing the peace).

3. You cannot use free speech with the intent to deliberately cause harm to others; the often used "Shouting FIRE! in a theatre", threatning someone and the like. Generally be offended falls under here for being mentally anguished (...wussies).


So, stop using "It's free speech!" unless you know what you're talking about.




Now, personally, I don't know what's up with this topic. The game will reach its success depending on how it performs. If it's an awesome game, even if Valve said "We hate all the people who buy our games!" people will still buy it. If it's medicore, people might not buy it (I actually have $200 set aside for games this year, if Valve takes too long and Fable, Halo 2, Stalker, R:TW and other games get out first, they get purchased first and Valve misses out until I feel like getting HL2). Then, if the game sucks, people will just inherently not buy it. I don't see much of a point in telling people not to buy it/buy it later/petition now to get it to buy later.

[This has been a rather pointless post, brought to you by UltimaGecko; hopefully we've all learned something today ]

 

[The Mullinator]

You know if something unbelievable happened and your protest does take off then just think about the message you would send.

HL2 sales would slump, Valve is already thinking of getting a new publisher I think once their current contract with Vivendi is done, what publisher would want them if a majority of gamers protested they're last game and caused sales problems?

A huge problem that exists right now is that games are being released way too early, if you havn't realized this then you havn't played many games or kept up with the industry. Of course if your protest was succesful publishers would be absolutely paranoid about the games not being released on time and we would be shoveled more crap from developers who couldn't get a game out on time because the publisher was paranoid about people protesting.

Of course your protest would never gain that much support to cause these kinds of things but it is something to think about, you only thing you can hope to achieve would be problems for other games in the long run.

 

[OmegaBlue]

A Protest Is Justified And Necessary

I Highly Agree.

 

[AngstyTeen]

Alright time for my two cents. *because you all value my oppionion so much*. I've played half life beaten it and I still play the mods daily, i've gone through hell and back just to get my game preordered *damn you eb games but thats a different story for a different time* I was saddened by the delay but you know what I'd rather have a good game then start up the game move one step off that train and suddenly game crashes then they have to release a patch soon after. wouldn't you rather say I own half life 2 its such a good game other then I own half life 2 that buggy crappy thing i use it as a paper weight? if people want to complain let them if people want to complain about the people complaing let them also but lets not attack valve personally they are working day in and day out to bring you something they don't have to do it they want to do it. If we should truly protest something we should protest Lucasarts for the cancelation of Sam N Max 2.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Does Lucasarts still have a fanbase? That's news to me!!! Lucasarts have just turned into an evil publisher. They outsource virtually every project. A far cry from their glory days of X-wing, DOTT, Tie-Fighter...etc.

Now obviously this protest won't achieve anything but it's good to let those capitalist scum running the show how evil they are to maximise profits by releasing the game in the holidy season. You FAT MONEY GRABBING WHORES. You're going to make millions upon millions no matter when you sell it. Goddamnit it frustrates me to no end....

SERENITY NOW SERENITY NOW!!

 

[KagePrototype]

ok people...come get your marching orders ...if this game does not see the light of day by october 31st, we should protest in some way to show that we, as a the half life community, are united and can have a real impact on the revenues that the writers and publishers make from us.

Unfortunately, we as a community will most likely have very little effect on revenue gained from sales of Half-Life 2. We make up a tiny percentage of potential buyers, so to simply boycott the game will make very little (if any) difference.

i propose that no one buy this game till at least january 2005 (if it is even out by then!). i know this is a tough thing to ask of you, but if we don't show these guys in a tangible way that they can't just fcuk with the fans, no one will ever take a fan community seriosly.

Who's ****ing with the fans? What have Valve done to anger you so much? Delays? If you're as large a fan of video games as you seem to be, you'd know that delays are common occurances within the indusry. Very rarely does a software developer meet deadlines easily. It anyone, it's your own fault for convincing yourself Valve can stick to dates (which are not only extremely rare coming from Valve, but also pure estimations). The simple fact is that dates and vague estimations are not set in stone, and blaming Valve and Vivendi for this is pointless.

if there is a delay till november, it is because only because vivendi wants their pockets to overflow, and has no regard for the people that have been waiting, and abused through all the drama about the release 0f this game.

What abuse are you talking about? How are you so surprised that an international publishing company wants to make lots of money? If a business sees an opportunity to gain more money withn a shorter time period, they seize it. It's simply the way business works. And even if they do delay it until November, that's hardly a huge wait. I'm sure you'd be able to occupy yourself for a couple of months. You've survived this long, at least.

I simply fail to see the point in this little protest of yours. You're taking all of this far too personally for your own good. My advice to you would be to forget about Half-Life 2 and do something else, instead of focusing so much on a video game. Get a job, watch TV, play some other games, there's plenty for you to do instead of doing pointless protests on an internet message board. You're wasting your time, in other words.

 

[john41]

This is just the point of view of an uneducated newb but I felt I needed to say that I sincerely doubt valve will miss the holiday season; they would just loose too much money that way. Therefore would it not be safe to assume that the game will be released before then?
Again feel free to correct me or call me a newb or point out a blatantly obvious piece of information I missed.

 

[AngstyTeen]

I think VU needs to think of it this way if you release the game in say Sept you will a large amount of people buying and it will slowly but surely decrease then when holiday comes more will buy maybe even some that didn't plan on buying it either way you make the same amount of money just in a fast way or a slow but sure way.

 

[john41]

I agree with you AngstyTeen.
All I am saying is that they can’t miss this year, (2004 for those of you that don’t know ) witch leaves us with: September, October, November, December to wait at most (and I wouldn’t count December that would be cutting it close).

I don’t really mind waiting that long along as I know it will eventually come out.

 

[ShadowFox]

I am protesting this protest.

What a moronic idea.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

it seems like way too many people put too much emphasis on a game. You're talking about protesting because a game company isn't coming out with a game as soon as u'd like? They dont even have to make hl2. Its just a game. Relax, pick up a hobby, and when it comes out, it comes out.

 

[Wildhound]

I think a lot of people need to take a good step back and realise it's just a game.

Sure, it's set to be a fantastic one, but I can't see how so many of you seem to have so much emotionally invested in it.

My girlfriend's away for a fortnight, I'm off work, and I'm in that strange lull before college starts when you really don't know what the next year has in store and you're kind of at a loose end. Needless to say I have nothing better to do right now, and yet I don't care that much.

I want to get my mitts on HL2 as much as anyone, but if it doesn't come out for another year it won't impact my life that much. Why is it so important to some of you?

 

[scatr99]

how can you criticize someone for having a different opinion on a FORUM.

And about delays with video games being common, saying hl2 was suppose to be complete; and its already a year later waiting to be finished, is completely retarded. Even with the argument that hackers "delayed" the game.

Lastly, when you critcize him for writing libel, what the hell are you talking about? Where did he say anything made up about Valve. He just stated that he was going to protest the game if it was released in November.

It's funny you think he needs to pick up a hobby when some of you have 500+ posts on these forums. Be a little more accepting of other peoples opinions next time, even if you disagree

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Sure, it's set to be a fantastic one, but I can't see how so many of you seem to have so much emotionally invested in it.

Consider the amount of time and fun you've extracted from half-life 1 and it's mods. The countless clans, the community forums, making models and textures, making maps, endlessely playing though de_dust, discovering mods like Dod and becoming thoroughly immersed.

Valve created an empire...a WAY OF LIFE when they created half-life. Half-Life 2 is going to be the next wave of fun. I consider the fun i've had over the last 6 years all because of Half-Life and cannot help but get insanely emotionally attached to the status of Half-Life 2.

IF you're just a casual gamer you just won't understand the connection some people have.

It's definitely more than just a game imo. Ask any Valve employee "it's just a game", their mind will be cast back to painful work, trying to get something finished by a deadline, injecting their heart and soul into getting something finished.

"It's just a game"

No. No, it's not.

 

[dart321]

I agree with scatr99. I don't understand how people say: 'Get a life, it's just a game.' when someone posts on HalfLife2.net. I mean, I thought that this was a place to come and discuss/argue about things like the release of the game. Most people that say this have 1000+ posts anyway.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

how can you criticize someone for having a different opinion on a FORUM.

And about delays with video games being common, saying hl2 was suppose to be complete; and its already a year later waiting to be finished, is completely retarded. Even with the argument that hackers "delayed" the game.

Lastly, when you critcize him for writing libel, what the hell are you talking about? Where did he say anything made up about Valve. He just stated that he was going to protest the game if it was released in November.

It's funny you think he needs to pick up a hobby when some of you have 500+ posts on these forums. Be a little more accepting of other peoples opinions next time, even if you disagree

forums r made to discuss things, discussion leads to criticism. And believe it or not, yur criticizing our opinions with what seems like a little more hostility.

And dart... just cause somebody has 1000+ posts doesn't mean anything. You've already got 230 and u've been here a month. A lot of people have been here over a year.

 

[Wildhound]

As an avid CS and DoD player as well as a long time mapper, currently working on a project where I've done some of my best work, I can partly see where you're coming from. But only partly.

But now that I've got a post out of you that has a little more to it than flame and cold rage, I'd like to ask you: if you got so much from HL1, why do you complain so much about what Valve are doing now?

I mean honestly, if they made something that gave so much to you, and it was more than just a game to you, then you certainly got more than you bargained for. Can you blame them for wanting to do the same again? For, in your own words, their "painful work, trying to get something finished by a deadline, injecting their heart and soul into getting something finished"?

Would they want to release something that's going to disappoint people such as yourself? Of course not! They have a lot to live up to, and they're only human. I really think that before you jump on the next band wagon you think about that even for a moment.

 

[Sarin]

Okay sickmind you do your protest. But you can be guaranteed that I'll be the first to pester you about how awesome the game is and how much fun I'm having while you're conducting this protest.

You talk as if playing this game is a right. It isn't. It's a privilege, and to earn the privilege you pay £30 to VALVe.

This is almost as bad as those people who get into betas, and then spend half the time complaining about stuff, or demand better service, instead of constructive criticism so that the devs know what to improve, as if it's their right to be in that beta. There are actually WoW stress test players who are demanding it go on for another week. "OR ELSE!"

 

[Mr-Fusion]

But now that I've got a post out of you that has a little more to it than flame and cold rage, I'd like to ask you: if you got so much from HL1, why do you complain so much about what Valve are doing now?

Simply because i'm beyond excited for the next phase of Valve's masterplan to begin. I try and tell myself the longer they delay it the more perfect it'll be, but after 12 months of telling yourself that, the reasoning starts to lose it's effect.

 

[dart321]

And dart... just cause somebody has 1000+ posts doesn't mean anything. You've already got 230 and u've been here a month. A lot of people have been here over a year.

What do you mean "it has nothing to do with anything"? I think it proves that you have quite a nice little obsession with HL2, I know I do. So is this not the place to talk about the game?

 

[Wildhound]

I try and tell myself the longer they delay it the more perfect it'll be, but after 12 months of telling yourself that, the reasoning starts to lose it's effect.

I've been telling myself the same thing for twelve months and I honestly still believe it. We'll see I suppose.

 

[Demon Wraith]

You...are...spoiled.

 

[Inanimate]

They won´t finish the game earlier even if we complain..
The refusal of giving us an OFFICIAL statement of the HL2 process is really irritating though.
Since Half Life2 is giving the worldwide gamers a WHOLE new perspective on what gaming can be, it TAKES time to finish the shite..
We all are disappointed since its like 1 year and a half delayed..

You just hold on, 1 month from now, you might already have finished HL2
Promise me that you´ll NOT be posting this again in 1 month concerning HL3 xD

 

[scatr99]

forums r made to discuss things, discussion leads to criticism. And believe it or not, yur criticizing our opinions with what seems like a little more hostility.

And dart... just cause somebody has 1000+ posts doesn't mean anything. You've already got 230 and u've been here a month. A lot of people have been here over a year.

I'm not criticizing your opinion, I'm criticizing the fact that you feel the need to tell the guy to get a life by picking up a hobby

 

[happyhero]

ok people...come get your marching orders ...if this game does not see the light of day by october 31st, we should protest in some way to show that we, as a the half life community, are united and can have a real impact on the revenues that the writers and publishers make from us.


i propose that no one buy this game till at least january 2005 (if it is even out by then!). i know this is a tough thing to ask of you, but if we don't show these guys in a tangible way that they can't just fcuk with the fans, no one will ever take a fan community seriosly.

this is only if it is not out by october 31, and releases in november or december. if we can delay our purchase till january, we'll ruin their projected sales figures for 2004, and we'll still have the game to play.


if there is a delay till november, it is because only because vivendi wants their pockets to overflow, and has no regard for the people that have been waiting, and abused through all the drama about the release 0f this game.

half life gamers, this is your only opportunity to make a stand and show that you are not sheep to be led by multi billion dollar corporations, that will continue their disrespect for the little guy


make a stand...unite...make a stand...unite!

i don't need to protest as i sold my voucher. valve has dissapointed me to long with their devious acts, like the going gold thing. they realy have pissed me off. i might just play duke nukem forever, as it will most likely come out before HL-2

 

[JonTheCanuck]

I'm not criticizing your opinion, I'm criticizing the fact that you feel the need to tell the guy to get a life by picking up a hobby

i'm not telilng him to get a life or making an attack at him. What i meant by it was that a game being delayed isn't the end of the world and theres always somethin else u can be doing.

dart: I'm excited for the game to come out and i've been discussing it on the forums for a long time but i dont feel the need to complain if the people who made it hold it back a bit to make it better. With a lot of the posts people have are also due to posting in the off-topic sections or general gaming, because they like the community that we have on this website.

 

[Mountain Man]

I am protesting this protest.

In order to show my protest for this protest, I'll be buying Half-Life 2 on release day. All of us together can make a difference. Who's with me!

 

[poseyjmac]

i'm not telilng him to get a life or making an attack at him. What i meant by it was that a game being delayed isn't the end of the world and theres always somethin else u can be doing.

dart: I'm excited for the game to come out and i've been discussing it on the forums for a long time but i dont feel the need to complain if the people who made it hold it back a bit to make it better. With a lot of the posts people have are also due to posting in the off-topic sections or general gaming, because they like the community that we have on this website.

the point is, you don't need to tell him what else he can be doing.

if people want to spend all day on a forum, thats their business, whatever floats their boat. they dont' want to hear anyones advice on what they should do by some stranger on a forum. as long as they don't break the rules of the forum, people should back off and realize that people have different opinions and priorities.

 

[Roland Deschain]

What, what, this post is still open. Isn't it quite obvious that by now you won't be able to change each other's opinions about Valve's release date blunders.

Mostly what you do is insult each other and flame. As far as I can see it there is nothing constructive going on here, oh well, one puny kitty do only so much.