Actual chemical weapons found in Iraq!!!

[waedoe]

Waedo, what do you think about the UN?

first how hard man is it to stick the *E* on the end of my name :|. any ways the UN is garabe. its ran by people who rly dont know what thier doing, and the UN hasnt done anything for the world except create most the problems in teh middle east right now. Example they stuck the Jews in palestine and created an uproar to the west. any how the UN is basically nothing with out the USA. they have nothing on thier side.

 

[gh0st]

the us (hmm i wonder which president THAT was ill give you a hint: his name isnt bush) sold weapons to iraq to take out the lesser of 2 evils. people dont have the exact same relations with everyone forEVER. just like we were enemies with germany then, and were friends with them now.

The administration began sending signals about a possible confrontation with Iraq even before Sept. 11, 2001.


In July 2001, after an Iraqi surface-to-air missile was fired at an American surveillance plane, Bush's national security adviser put Saddam on notice that the United States intended a more resolute military policy toward Iraq.

i dont understand... there had already been confrontations with iraq... why should anything point to bush just wanting oil (or some liberal propaganda)?

"We made it very public that we thought that one consequence the president should draw from 9/11 is that it was unacceptable to sit back and let either terrorist groups or dictators developing weapons of mass destruction strike first at us," conservative commentator Bill Kristol said on ABCNEWS' Nightline in March.

glad our president isnt a pussy: )

 

[Korgoth]

I never meant to imply that you were a sheep ghostvalkyrie, sorry if you thought that way. Blind faith in something like a ruler or a government is a scary scary thing...

Yeah clarky003 I know exactly what you mean

and great points again direwolf!

 

[clarky003]

UN, united nations... how many nations would that be again?? NSUN not so united nations lol

 

[gh0st]

Yeah fear and patriotism, if you recall, are also the same tools used to control the people under nazi rule, and it seemed to work then. So why wouldn't it work now? Did you know that by using fear to divert public attention you could get away with murder and no one is the wiser. In fact, just in the past couple of weeks when the Terror threat level was at "high" and the public was under alert for terrost activities and planes were being grounded and delayed, patriot act 2 or "patriot 2" was signed in by Bush. Did you ever see any mention of that in the news? I sure didn't.

hahahahhaa... its always something isnt it. when bush is reelected hes going to be putting mind control devices into our heads. get real, bush is only trying to prevent a large scale panic that would surey exist if there was the real threat of a terrorist attack. im sorry but who would be getting away with murder? bush cant just shoot someone and get off scot free. you seem to forget that neither the american people, nor the executive branch control the government entirely. thats what the judicial branch is for.

as for the patriot act, no doubt the NAACP would know that it was and would raise hell about it. and if it was being signed into act, it also means that our congress accepted it. kthnx bye.

edit: and everything the senate does is right here http://www.senate.gov/ so why dont you check that out if you have any questions about what their doing.

 

[Korgoth]

Sorry bout' the "E" Waedoe, (I never claimed to be good at typing, grammer, spelling, or memory so please don't hold it against me )

 

[clarky003]

ghOst , no offence but thats a perfect example of the opitomy of what we just said, please these ramblings are senseless when we really dont know what the hell is happening atall, and if you do, your omnipresent, the fact of the matter is, lies are being told, and we are all being treated like idiots, patriots of a country or not,!, and infact this is predictably the position they put us in.. confusion and mistrust in each others insight,

what we believe is true , makes our own truths, but theres always the universal truth. which maybe a truth in its own

 

[GhostValkyrie]

The things is that the media has asked for proof of our claims - Saddam's son, himself, etc. If Bush doesn't provide that proof somehow, he will lose credibility. Imagine what would happen if we claimed to have Saddam, and not show him. There would be a large uproar, and claims of propaganda, war-hype, etc. It's not like we held them up to the camera, smiling and laughing while doing it. It's not like we showed the entrance and exit wounds on his sons' bodies. Besides, we barely even heard anything about our soldiers being paraded on television. And technically, he wasn't a POW. The war was decalred as over long months ago. Also, he wasn't in military garb, making him a fugitive...or even an terrorist by some standards - Seeing as he was armed during a state of martial law, along with the fact that he was a former member(The actual leader) of the Baath Party. It's the same with a soldier who dresses as civilian, they are no longer covered under the Geneva Convention, and can be considered(and by my standards are) a terrorist.

 

[Korgoth]

hahahahhaa... its always something isnt it. when bush is reelected hes going to be putting mind control devices into our heads. get real, bush is only trying to prevent a large scale panic that would surey exist if there was the real threat of a terrorist attack. im sorry but who would be getting away with murder? bush cant just shoot someone and get off scot free. you seem to forget that neither the american people, nor the executive branch control the government entirely. thats what the judicial branch is for.

as for the patriot act, no doubt the NAACP would know that it was and would raise hell about it. and if it was being signed into act, it also means that our congress accepted it. kthnx bye.

Yeah it is always something. You know I never said that it was solid fact that they used the terror threat as a diversion. I was merely putting it out there to see what others thought about it, and how comfortably the two fit together. Sorry if you don't agree or believe my theory, I never said you had to, I never said anyone had to. Now you see clarky003 thats what I was talking about "being pounced on".

 

[GhostValkyrie]

hahahahhaa... its always something isnt it. when bush is reelected hes going to be putting mind control devices into our heads. get real, bush is only trying to prevent a large scale panic that would surey exist if there was the real threat of a terrorist attack. im sorry but who would be getting away with murder? bush cant just shoot someone and get off scot free. you seem to forget that neither the american people, nor the executive branch control the government entirely. thats what the judicial branch is for.

Along with the Legislative Branch.

 

[clarky003]

Now you see clarky003 thats what I was talking about "being pounced on".

exactley (keeping it simple)

something there isnt enough of these days

 

[Direwolf]

I swear to God though, sometimes it seems like you could pass something through the house as long as you promised to give them all a kazoo.

 

[Korgoth]

The things is that the media has asked for proof of our claims - Saddam's son, himself, etc. If Bush doesn't provide that proof somehow, he will lose credibility. Imagine what would happen if we claimed to have Saddam, and not show him. There would be a large uproar, and claims of propaganda, war-hype, etc. It's not like we held them up to the camera, smiling and laughing while doing it. It's not like we showed the entrance and exit wounds on his sons' bodies. Besides, we barely even heard anything about our soldiers being paraded on television. And technically, he wasn't a POW. The war was decalred as over long months ago. Also, he wasn't in military garb, making him a fugitive...or even an terrorist by some standards - Seeing as he was armed during a state of martial law, along with the fact that he was a former member(The actual leader) of the Baath Party. It's the same with a soldier who dresses as civilian, they are no longer covered under the Geneva Convention, and can be considered(and by my standards are) a terrorist.

Yes and I agree ghostvalkyrie, my point was, "lead by example" you know. Also to add, marines in afghanistan and spec ops wear civillian cloths and grow their beards out to look like civillians there. So it goes both ways, maybe they see us as terrorists.

 

[clarky003]

Innervision your theory is only a theory because nobody would ever make the leap to even begin to contemplate it as a fact,

its not about wats true anymore, its about what people think is true, to satisfy the balance of reality. normality. physcological stuff that most people even i have been influenced by.

 

[Murray_H]

If they do turn out to be 10 years old, leaking and rusty, what the hell would a terrorist use them for? They would probably kill themselves before they even infilitrated anyones security

 

[gh0st]

because its wrong.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Understandable, Innervision. But, you also need to understand that those are for specific operations. And that they don't open fire unless fired upon. I doubt they see us as terrorists. Seeing as now the thing to do in Afghanistan is to shoot Aid workers. What I want to ask people is why they seem to think the Taliban and al- Queda are Freedom Fighters? Not pointing to you, Innervision. But I've heard people like Kerberos calling them such things, and it's really disturbing. It's also disturbing to hear our soldiers compared to them.
Since when have our fighters opened fire on Aid workers, time after time, after time? Sure, there have been friendly fire incidents. But, they continue to actually target them. These aren't instances in which it would look as though they're soldiers, these are instances when they're building news buildings, delivering food and supplies, and other selfless acts. These are even their own people...People they probably even grew up with.

 

[clarky003]

because its wrong.

omg thats the most biased comment on this chat :O, lol.. we dont want your completely biased opinions there not constructive in these conversations

 

[Korgoth]

Innervision your theory is only a theory because nobody would ever make the leap to even begin to contemplate it as a fact,

its not about wats true anymore, its about what people think is true, to satisfy the balance of reality. normality. physcological stuff that most people even i have been influenced by.

Classic insn't it Clarky003?

"The world is round"
"no its not the world is flat"
"Well my theory says its round"
"Well the world is flat, your a nut, the king says so, it has to be true"

 

[clarky003]

lol, dont forget the slandering and humiliation for thinking its 'round'

hell these days you could get shot for thinking like that., :O

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Not to be rude, Clarky, but do you see everyone as mindless animals indulging themselves in a never-ending rat race? Do you seem to think there is some unseen puppet master(s) controlling the scene? Is society just a basic ideal used to confine us and create us into consumeristic slaves?

Once again, I'm not trying to be rude. It just happen to know people like that. And I was even like that to some extent, once.

Do you really think it would be that hard for others on this forum to comprehend your theories or questions?

 

[Korgoth]

Understandable, Innervision. But, you also need to understand that those are for specific operations. And that they don't open fire unless fired upon. I doubt they see us as terrorists. Seeing as now the thing to do in Afghanistan is to shoot Aid workers. What I want to ask people is why they seem to think the Taliban and al- Queda are Freedom Fighters? Not pointing to you, Innervision. But I've heard people like Kerberos calling them such things, and it's really disturbing. It's also disturbing to hear our soldiers compared to them.
Since when have our fighters opened fire on Aid workers, time after time, after time? Sure, there have been friendly fire incidents. But, they continue to actually target them. These aren't in instances in which it would look as though they're soldiers, these are instnaces when they're building news buildings, delivering food and supplies, and other selfless acts. These are even their own people...People they probably even grew up with.

Ah dude thats not how I meant my statement really. I wasn't comparing our guys, to the taliban, but to the Iraqi army (and even that was only for comparison) I don't view the taliban as freedom fighters, i never have. They are terrosts to me, but I am saying to people in that region they might not see them that way. Its all a perspective issue really, two different sides of the planet, who know little to nothing about eachother get thrown into the mix. And not everyone is that close minded no, but there are people (on both sides mind you) that see the other as something different from what their own see.

 

[Korgoth]

lol, dont forget the slandering and humiliation for thinking its 'round'

hell these days you could get shot for thinking like that., :O

Funny how little has actually changed since then huh?

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Ah dude thats not how I meant my statement really. I wasn't comparing our guys, to the taliban, but to the Iraqi army (and even that was only for comparison) I don't view the taliban as freedom fighters, i never have. They are terrosts to me, but I am saying to people in that region they might not see them that way. Its all a perspective issue really, two different sides of the planet, who know little to nothing about eachother get thrown into the mix. And not everyone is that close minded no, but there are people (on both sides mind you) that see the other as something different from what their own see.

I really don't see how the people of Afghanistan didn't view their Govt. as brutal dictators and terrorists. Street rapes, executions, laws imposing clothing you must wear, events to which you must participate. They can come in and invalidate a marriage, and force one upon someone. Not to mention how there was even less civilian resistence from the Afghan people than the peope of Iraq. And even that resistence was because they were afraid we'd leave again, or they were supporters of Saddam. But, your open mindedness is commendible.
/me hands you the bronze statue for caring.
I think all of the evidence points to them very much wanting to be free of the Taliban, along with them welcoming the Guerillas who were fighting the Taliban & al-Queda.

 

[clarky003]

Funny how little has actually changed since then huh

yup , it shows the general and personal independant thought of the individual is shadowed by the group, even if the untruth is somehow more believeable than the truth. you have no chance if people are swayed by media. and speeches that reach into the heart of patriotisim and falsely or otherwise make you stand proud, a world where the truth is overcome by belief

You shouldn't fear the US taking over the world, as you claim it is; We're more interested in the galaxy

thats a great quote. lol

there after both, and the moon colony thing is great! but i cant help but feel that its just being done to make us smile at a new possibility, giving us reason to smile at bushy boy again, close to elections too... good plan old boy

 

[GhostValkyrie]

yup , it shows the general and personal independant thought of the individual is shadowed by the group, even if the untruth is somehow more believeable than the truth. you have no chance if people are swayed by media. and speeches that reach into the heart or patriotisim and falsely or otherwise make you stand proud, a world where the truth is overcome by belief

/me takes Deus Ex away from Clarky.

No offense or belittlement intended. I felt that a little comic-relief was needed. I just want to keep this conversation from becoming too serious, or hostile. I hope you understand. Because when that happens - Someone will get angry, someone's feelings will be hurt, and someone will close the thread. That's that last thing I want. I'm really enjoying talking with you people in a civil manner.

BTW: If you pay attention to many news networks, there is a noticeably biased to oppose Bush. Even Walter Cronkite said this, and he's one of the most famous Anchormen ever...and he's one of the liberals himself. I think when someone from their own organization admits it exist, that's time to admit which way the media sways.

 

[clarky003]

i wont get angry, the worst i can do is say Bush's name twice in a sentence

BTW: i do know that , but every little conversation helps,

 

[Gorgon]

Well you see man, I don't give a F.

Iraq now belong to America.........All the oil is for America and europ now and no one can complain.

 

[clarky003]

how wonderful... 'for us'. meh theres only 2 decades worth of supplies left anyway. so its futile, a short term insurance for the worlds MEDC's

 

[Korgoth]

I really don't see how the people of Afghanistan didn't view their Govt. as brutal dictators and terrorists. Street rapes, executions, laws imposing clothing you must wear, events to which you must participate. They can come in and invalidate a marriage, and force one upon someone. Not to mention how there was even less civilian resistence from the Afghan people than the peope of Iraq. And even that resistence was because they were afraid we'd leave again, or they were supporters of Saddam. But, your open mindedness is commendible.
/me hands you the bronze statue for caring.
I think all of the evidence points to them very much wanting to be free of the Taliban, along with them welcoming the Guerillas who were fighting the Taliban & al-Queda.

Look again, Do you know for 100% certainty that is how the people felt about it? The culture there is a brutal one, this is all these people have known their whole lives, and yes they deserve better. But are they really willing to change? You can't see nor can I but I feel like your trying to twist my words here, I'm not glorifying murder, rape, and oppression that is the exact opposite of how I feel. I am however trying to plead others to be open minded, and its not really working so :cheers: I know I wouldn't want to live under that kind of tyranical rule, and deep down i'm sure no one wants to. But if china came to liberate us from our "freedom hating government" (which would be their words not mine) would you agree with everything they had to say?

 

[clarky003]

thats one of the most realistic and knowledgable talk backs yet . china = largest energy consumer outside of US . which is number 1. woo keep on goin , we might all be out of oil before two decades time, , ( I think its wrong to enforce a way of life upon any human being, but that doesnt mean dont have any structure)

 

[Frank]

They probably just planted the bombs there...

EDIT: Correction, they probably just planted the shells there

 

[Gorgon]

clarky003 , wrong wrong.


250 years of supply 24/7 around the clock.

 

[Korgoth]

Well even if the supply was perfectly fine, oil is still viable income for many. With new alternatives and hybrids already in use and more in development it looks like these big wigs are soon to lose their cash cow, so why not milk it for all tis worth now and get a little financial security for the future, thats what I see is going on.

 

[clarky003]

Frank thats a probably people wouldnt even begin to believe in, so therefore it cant be the truth but maybe they might plant something if they get really desperate to convince us . but that would be insane , surely...

 

[clarky003]

Gorgon, its in a new drawn up oil document life cycle, 250 years,!? your on planet oil there,... read a book man. this isnt planet oil, in 20 years there wont be enough to satisfy 'the worlds 'demand, calculating population growth into the figures.
productin peaked in 1979 at the highest recorded level,and will finally peak in 2006 and if we have got 250 years left, thats a pretty early peak. lol being as the industrial revolution started late 19th century. and after peak its proven the resources decrease exponentialy

 

[waedoe]

ghOst , no offence but thats a perfect example of the opitomy of what we just said, please these ramblings are senseless when we really dont know what the hell is happening atall, and if you do, your omnipresent, the fact of the matter is, lies are being told, and we are all being treated like idiots, patriots of a country or not,!, and infact this is predictably the position they put us in.. confusion and mistrust in each others insight,

what we believe is true , makes our own truths, but theres always the universal truth. which maybe a truth in its own

save the philisopical crap for another time. The pressing matter here, is were there WMD? Yes, scuds were launched at the U.S. while there were based in Kuiwate, and now these chems. Regardless how insignifigant u think these are they, make george bush a truthful president. Also we all know that killing people is bad <thats a universal truth. And yet the liberals were going to allow saddam to do this, to innocent people, just so we dont look bad to the rest of the world. Sick :x

 

[clarky003]

its not philosophical crap, its the stem, the essence of cause. and its certainly not as shallow as that statement, what your talking about is short term salvation, im looking at long term, which in general is far more important

 

[Korgoth]

save the philisopical crap for another time. The pressing matter here, is were there WMD? Yes, scuds were launched at the U.S. while there were based in Kuiwate, and now these chems. Regardless how insignifigant u think these are they, make george bush a truthful president. Also we all know that killing people is bad <thats a universal truth. And yet the liberals were going to allow saddam to do this, to innocent people, just so we dont look bad to the rest of the world. Sick :x

Ummm no one was going to allow this to happen, and even so it wouldn't have been to save face in the rest of the world. I think preventing the death of more innocents and american troops is pretty important too. If patriotism means accepting without question the call to send your friends, sons, and daughters to fight and die, then i'm the most unpatriotic bastard you will ever meet.

 

[waedoe]

its not philosophical crap, its the stem, the essence of cause. and its certainly not as shallow as that statement

LETS STAY ON TOPIC. WERE THIER WMD FOUND? YES, SCUDS AND CHEM. now can we get on to something more important now that we know GWB didnt lie