Afraid to talk about my beliefs

[gick]

Same situation I'm in mate. I told my parents about it and my mother threatened to kick me out of the house and sell my possesions, and my father yelled at me until I cried. They then told my pastor and forced be to go to a "bible study" where I debated until he threw pascals wager at me and I just got up and left. I haven't talked to them since. I have talked to a few friends though, two of which wanted me to come with them to their strange secluded bible camp on a desolate mountain in arizona. (Which might have been fun, but I respectfully declined)

Coming out is tough man, it just depends on your situation. I'm not afraid to share my beliefs, but I'm not saying anything in my daily life anymore because my parents are extrmely hostile to the idea. (My mom equated it to nazism, and thinks it should be illegal, and they won't talk to my atheist uncle and refuse to allow me to see him. He's dying of cancer now and they thought it was a "good thing" because it might force him to "see the light")

Thats pretty much the perfect example of

 

[Ennui]

(My mom equated it to nazism, and thinks it should be illegal, and they won't talk to my atheist uncle and refuse to allow me to see him. He's dying of cancer now and they thought it was a "good thing" because it might force him to "see the light")

****ing hell, that's disgusting. Seriously, I want to vomit just thinking about how unbelievably horrible that is for them to do. Do your parents have email?

I'm like Absinthe, minus a few years (which seems to apply in several other contexts than this one). My parents have raised me as a fairly laid-back Christian - IE, strong beliefs, but not really going to church or anything. They are unaware that I am atheist and I will probably wait until I'm in college to tell them.

Tehsolace; if your friends cannot accept your beliefs, no matter how wonderful they are, they're not really your friends. I have atheist friends (though few as militant as I am), pagan friends, Christian friends, Jewish friends, Muslim friends, etc... of varying intensity and faith, and I respect their beliefs just as they respect mine.

Also, I've read that atheists are the least trusted and most discriminated against group of people in the United States... more so than homosexuals even.

 

[63]

Atheism makes for awesome alliteration.

 

[Vigilante]

Sorry to hear of your predicament, tehsolace. Since you say your parents will accept you no matter what your beliefs I don't believe you have much to loose.

Personally, I'm teetering between agnosticism and athiesm. If there is any governing force I'd consider them the laws of physics (and string theory!). Physics controls the happenings of the cosmos, not a god.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Classic example, religion preaches acceptance and love.... only things that become if it are intolerance and hate.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Christians will attack you with threats and shame, because those are all, fundamentally, that christianity has to bring to the discussion.

I'm a Christian. American Zionist is what I prefer to be called, but anyways. Don't live a lie and just be honest with your folks. It's your life and they'll love you and respect you regardless of whatever decision you've made. They want the best for you. Remember that.

 

[Ennui]

i think it's unfair to say that those are the only things that come of it.

but there's definitely a lot of intolerance and hatred due to religion, and i think in the overall picture it outweighs the love and compassion it sometimes produces.

as far as i'm concerned, we should all be buddhist.

 

[Max35]

^^I think Einstein said something about Buddhism being the most efficient religion, but in terms of a philosophy only. I'll have to look that up.

 

[GiaOmerta]

but there's definitely a lot of intolerance and hatred due to religion

True. This is a vast problem and reading the various experiences disgust me. The problem is religion. Yes. Christianity is meant to be a relationship with the Creator, not an empty system, a calamity that held back humanity for generations during the Dark Age.

 

[Absinthe]

Also, I've read that atheists are the least trusted and most discriminated against group of people in the United States... more so than homosexuals even.

It's very true. We are viewed as the most immoral and untrustworthy demographic of the world population.

I find it amusing that so many people think that a deity is needed to make morality legitimate.

 

[GiaOmerta]

I find it amusing that so many people think that a deity is needed to make morality legitimate.

Many who 'claim' alliegience to a deity have worst morals then those who don't.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

i think it's unfair to say that those are the only things that come of it.

I wasn't saying that those are those only things christanity does for people (the christians themselves seem fairly content, between moral panics), but threats and shame are the only things that Christianity can bring to a discussion on atheism or faith itself.

What does Christianity offer that other views do not?
The threat of eternal hell and the shame of your family and/or community if you disobey, mostly.
It certainly doesn't have a monopoly on morality or love.
In fact, it is a fairly poor source of such things, as this thread can attest.
They're trace elements.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Mecha, what 'branch' of the religion Christianity were you raised in?

 

[Ennui]

I wasn't saying that those are those only things christanity does for people (the christians themselves seem fairly content, between moral panics), but threats and shame are the only things that Christianity can bring to a discussion on atheism or faith itself.

What does Christianity offer that other views do not?
The threat of eternal hell and the shame of your family and/or community if you disobey, mostly.
It certainly doesn't have a monopoly on morality or love.
In fact, it is a fairly poor source of such things, as this thread can attest.
They're trace elements.

aye, I'm not disagreeing, I was responding to neptune:

Classic example, religion preaches acceptance and love.... only things that become if it are intolerance and hate.

In any case, Absinthe, I'm similarly confused by many people's notion that morals have some kind of divine origin. I've derived my morals through reasoning, logic, and an innate respect for myself that naturally extends to other people... and that's far more solid than taking them from some external source, because at that point they're rules you adhere to, not morals upon which you found your actions.

 

[FieryGoose]

ok, i for one was raised in a Christian home and i do currently think of myself as a Christian.
I think that GiaOmerta hit the nail on the head, Christianity isn't about rules or ways to live your life, sure there are basic moral principles that you should follow, but it is really about have personal relationship with God, and maybe your parents will try and "convert" you back to Christianity but it really is just because they truly love you. If they didn't try and bring you back to Christianity, in my opinion that would be a real shame. However, it really isn't the Christians job to judge people in any way shape or form. Judgment does happen, like it or not, just because your Christian doesn't mean your immortal and don't make any mistakes, your parents are human too.
My advice is this, tell your parents your situation and ask them if they have anything they would like to say to you that might help you on the road to finding the truth. They may try to convince you to come back to your native religion or just give you some advice. Either way they aren't going to chain you up and torture you until you convert, they're your parents, don't be afraid to tell them what going on in your life, they love you man. Good Luck.

 

[tehsolace]

ok, i for one was raised in a Christian home and i do currently think of myself as a Christian.
I think that GiaOmerta hit the nail on the head, Christianity isn't about rules or ways to live your life, sure there are basic moral principles that you should follow, but it is really about have personal relationship with God, and maybe your parents will try and "convert" you back to Christianity but it really is just because they truly love you. If they didn't try and bring you back to Christianity, in my opinion that would be a real shame. However, it really isn't the Christians job to judge people in any way shape or form. Judgment does happen, like it or not, just because your Christian doesn't mean your immortal and don't make any mistakes, your parents are human too.
My advice is this, tell your parents your situation and ask them if they have anything they would like to say to you that might help you on the road to finding the truth. They may try to convince you to come back to your native religion or just give you some advice. Either way they aren't going to chain you up and torture you until you convert, they're your parents, don't be afraid to tell them what going on in your life, they love you man. Good Luck.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" seems to be the least followed principle in Christianity (unless some others are slipping my mind at the moment). None the less, I pretty much agree with you: they love me and they will eventually accept my beliefs with open arms.

I just want it to go smoothly.

 

[GiaOmerta]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" seems to be the least followed principle in Christianity.

If I agreed with you. I'd be judging. but, I know what you mean.

I just want it to go smoothly.

The best bet is to dedicate some time and address this with them. Tell them up front... I have something important to say and ask for the floor until your satisfied with expressing your concerns and decision.

 

[mindless_moder]

I'd just like to say that i know exactly what you're going through. I'm actually more or less in the same boat i went from being a rather liberal catholic to being a religious fundamentalist (born again) and now I'm in a state of closeted atheism/agnosticism what really brought me out of it was just the level of ignorance that the people around me possessed and how easily they were manipulated and swayed into changing their ideologies without pausing to consider or understand things rationally. i haven't really told anyone except a few close friends that actually understood where i was coming from apart from them I'm just afraid of losing the bond i currently have with people even if they have only the best intentions at heart. i think you should introduce your beliefs slowly and make sure that there aren't any misunderstandings or misconceptions give them an accurate idea of what you're actually feeling and where you are in life.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Mecha, what 'branch' of the religion Christianity were you raised in?

None of them.

I come from a fairly pure outsider perspective; I can't claim to have been horribly persecuted by any religion beyond the level of irritation, nor I was taught or otherwise compelled to become atheist either.

And man does it ever feel good, not to have had such thoughts force-fed me as a child.
I feel sad that so many children can't experience the chance to learn about religion at their own pace as an adult, and not as a programmable tool.

I've encountered untold dozens of seemingly sensible adults who can (or cannot even) barely grasp the bible's contents, even when they are spelt out in simple terms. Yet it is considered normal to teach them to children as young as what? Five-ish?
Hell, infants are often given toy Noah's Arks and such.

Why don't you just tell the kids they have cancer?
Seriously, why not? You can say it's invisible cancer that can't be detected, but will still kill them slowly and painfully.
Cancer's not even a fraction of a fraction of how terrifying the concept of hell is, and there is an equal amount of evidence that this invisible cancer is killing your child.
So why not give them this entirely fair warning?

I'd love for anyone to give me a single good reason why you should threaten kids with hell and not with cancer.


Now here's the part where someone objects and says that their church only teaches young children the "happy" parts of the bible (which are, as a general rule, misinterpretations or snow jobs of unhappy parts: note infants given Noah's Ark toys, symbolic of what christian theology considers the greatest death toll the world has seen. But hey, there's cuddly animals!).
So then, isn't this even worse? It's a bait-and-switch to lure children into your religion with Veggietales and whatnot, only to pull out the hell stuff after they've been indoctrinated.

Continuing the analogy, you may as well then give a kids a bag of candy and, after they've eaten it, tell them that the candy is carcinogenic.
Again, I'd love to see one good reason to teach them the religion and not about the danger of invisible cancer.

Consider that a challenge, because I can't think of a single reason at the moment.

Christianity isn't about rules or ways to live your life, sure there are basic moral principles that you should follow, but it is really about have personal relationship with God

Untrue. The bible has clear rules against following your personal feelings and, on the other hand, lists hundreds of mandatory laws and regulations - all of which, according to Christ, must be followed exactly.

However, it really isn't the Christians job to judge people in any way shape or form.

Also untrue. Jesus specifically asks for judgement to take place throughout its entire text, concerning a large portion of those mandatory laws and judgements.
The oft-misinterpreted "judge not..." rule is against hypocracy: you cannot judge if you are also a criminal.
It doesn't say anything about forbidding all judgement forever. Only that all proper christians must be prepared to accept judgement from others.

(You'll note that in the context, Jesus has no problem with the fact that a stoning was attempted. Only that the executioners weren't righteous enough to perform a stoning. He never once says "never stone anyone".)

Jesus specifically demands for man to judge others in his etiquette argument with the Pharisees, where he complains that they haven't been killing enough disobedient children.


You gave good advice at the end, but accuracy is equally important to a topic.

 

[falconwind]

I've found that certain Christians tend to believe that if you're not a Christian, it is their god-given right and duty to convert you. I find his intrusive and rude, personally. But I'm not surprised that they do this, since they believe if you're not a Christian, you're a sinner, and your going to burn in hell. Period. And they have to save you with Jesus.

So really, in this way, intolerance is integral to the mindset of evangelical Christians. If you are not one of them, you are a sinner. It's plain and simple to them. They're not supposed to tolerate you, they're supposed to convert you by any means necessary. Shunning you, ridiculing you, harassing you, it's all in the name of God, so they think it's alright and righteous.

 

[tehsolace]

I've found that certain Christians tend to believe that if you're not a Christian, it is their god-given right and duty to convert you. I find his intrusive and rude, personally. But I'm not surprised that they do this, since they believe if you're not a Christian, you're a sinner, and your going to burn in hell. Period. And they have to save you with Jesus.

So really, in this way, intolerance is integral to the mindset of evangelical Christians. If you are not one of them, you are a sinner. It's plain and simple to them. They're not supposed to tolerate you, they're supposed to convert you by any means necessary. Shunning you, ridiculing you, harassing you, it's all in the name of God, so they think it's alright and righteous.

Exactly. And its that exactly reasoning that led to the dark ages

 

[Solaris]

I must admit, I read the thread title, and thought the OP was afraid of talking about being religious here.
I felt a twinge of guilt.

 

[Spoonoop]

Well, I'm Christian for the most part, and could give a damn if your atheist or not, so stop feeling like a victim. You shouldn't be afraid to tell anyone your beliefs. There are too many people in the world with many different beliefs. Hell, there are people that think they are vempires. Do I have anything against them? Of course not. Be what you want and believe in what you want.

 

[Solaris]

Well, I'm Christian for the most part, and could give a damn if your atheist or not, so stop feeling like a victim. You shouldn't be afraid to tell anyone your beliefs. There are too many people in the world with many different beliefs. Hell, there are people that think they are vempires. Do I have anything against them? Of course not. Be what you want and believe in what you want.

Yes because you're everyone so how you react is equal to that of how everyone would react.
Read the thread and then come back.

kthxbye

 

[Nemesis6]

Ok, you see him as part of "everyone", I'm assuming that when you say "everyone", you mean Christians. Not everyone is a Christian, Solaris.

 

[Solaris]

Ok, you see him as part of "everyone", I'm "everyone" is Christians as a whole. Not everyone is a Christian, Solaris.

My god, I found the sarcasm there was pretty obvious.

If it wasn't I apologise.

 

[Asknoone]

I really don't care what people think about what I believe/don't believe. I just tell it how it is.

 

[CyberPitz]

I really don't care what people think about what I believe/don't believe. I just tell it how it is.

It's true. If someone isn't going to appreciate YOU because of what you believe in, then they aren't worth it. They are just too self centered to see you, then, and really...just no.

 

[tehsolace]

Well, I'm Christian for the most part, and could give a damn if your atheist or not, so stop feeling like a victim. You shouldn't be afraid to tell anyone your beliefs. There are too many people in the world with many different beliefs. Hell, there are people that think they are vempires. Do I have anything against them? Of course not. Be what you want and believe in what you want.

Way to totally skim the topic post and immediately start typing when you see the two words "afraid" and "atheist"...

 

[Sulkdodds]

Man, this is crazy. For me and almost everybody I know, what faith you were was really unimportant to how you interacted with people. Sure, I've had some friendly religious debates with various friends, but here there are people talking about "coming out", about persecution, as if being atheist were some huge thing you feel you might have to hide from others - even someone like Absinthe, who I see as being very outspoken and open and not the least bit apologetic about his opinions, is talking about having trouble with it. I suppose it just highlights a really huge culture gap between America and somewhere like Britain.

Myself, I was raised with a slight Christian bias, because although neither of my parents were religious at all, from the age of 5 I lived on a little Scottish island where most people were at least a bit Christian, and many, many of them attended church regularly. Our school was fairly saturated in Christianity - assemblies, school plays, that kind of thing - but it was never a very strong or insular form.

Myself, I'd long before taken to reading books about science and evolution, so I came to it with a little skeptism already and certainly never believed that there was really an Adam and Eve. For a long time I believed vaguely in the concept of a God, though I was always very aware of the nastier elements of the philosophy, and aware that people somewhat oddly chose not to follow them, and so thought to myself "well, they don't really want to believe in the totality of the thing. They want a conviction that can give them comfort and a sense of identity, but they won't let that conflict with their own morals, which are mostly quite gentle."

So I suppose really I had developed a skeptical/rational viewpoint at a pretty young age, because it wasn't long before I became aware of the artificial or arbitrary elements inherent in the concept - and not much longer before I worked out, with some sadness, how useful the whole thing was for controlling and for organising.

Well, I'm Christian for the most part, and could give a damn if your atheist or not

You could give a damn, but you don't?

 

[Spoonoop]

Thats correct sir.

 

[Walter]

Hmm...come to think of it, i think Jesus said something about public preaching, though can't remember what and where exactly. Going to take a look and post it laters. But if i'm right, He was against it.

 

[tehsolace]

It is crazy. Whats even more crazy is the very notion that I would be afraid to tell my family about my current beliefs... my family, who is not your typical bible-belt family, but rather a loose Christian family. But here I am.

 

[Jintor]

It's because it's about not just your upbringing, but everybody else's as well...

 

[Sulkdodds]

Thats correct sir.

You should be more clear. "I could care less" places you potentially almost anywhere on the care-scale, from passionately obsessed to midly disinterested.

 

[Ennui]

I must admit, I read the thread title, and thought the OP was afraid of talking about being religious here.
I felt a twinge of guilt.

Let's get this straight, just as a general thing: we do not discriminate based on religion. The reason the debates here are so fierce is because we all feel quite strongly about our beliefs, and when someone tries to impose a contradictory notion on us, we get uppity. I'm not berating you or anything, Solaris, I just figure that in response it's a good idea to make it clear.

Well, I'm Christian for the most part, and could give a damn if your atheist or not, so stop feeling like a victim. You shouldn't be afraid to tell anyone your beliefs. There are too many people in the world with many different beliefs. Hell, there are people that think they are vempires. Do I have anything against them? Of course not. Be what you want and believe in what you want.

Your opinion is irrelevant. You're stating this as if he's wrong... which he isn't. Read the thread before you post something this direct, or risk looking like an idiot, which is what just happened. You are not everyone. I don't know where you live, but in much of the United States, atheists are NOT very well accepted. You are not part of the majority with your tolerance of atheism... in my experience, the vast majority of Christians and most religious people in general are distrusting and sketchy about atheists.

Ok, you see him as part of "everyone", I'm assuming that when you say "everyone", you mean Christians. Not everyone is a Christian, Solaris.

Talk about mindless, twattish nitpicking. I hate to be harsh, but if you want to argue, argue about something relevant instead of poking at his semantics in such an immature fashion. Non-Christians judge atheists too, so you're not even CORRECT in your nitpicking. gg?

It's true. If someone isn't going to appreciate YOU because of what you believe in, then they aren't worth it. They are just too self centered to see you, then, and really...just no.

I agree with you, here, but it's not hiding if you merely wish to avoid undue, unconstructive fuss because people don't like that you're atheist. I don't avoid telling people - if it comes up in discussion, or whatever, I'm very straightforward about it, but other than that I don't usually mention it, because I tend to get in unnecessary arguments with stupid people that just frustrates me.

It is crazy. Whats even more crazy is the very notion that I would be afraid to tell my family about my current beliefs... my family, who is not your typical bible-belt family, but rather a loose Christian family. But here I am.

I'm in the same boat, my friend. It's not irrational - weirdness in the family isn't something anyone wants, and it could conceivably take them some time to accept and get used to it. That's why I'm waiting until college and just dropping hints now and then.

And Sulk - I don't know how religious tolerance is in the UK or Europe, but here in the states, it can be quite a huge problem in some areas / for some people. Not just against atheists, but against Muslims as well, right now, or just anyone who isn't Christian. We've got the Bible Belt and the deep South...

 

[Jerry_111]

I never had any of the problems mentioned in this thread, wow. My parents were both atheist to start with, and religion to me was just another academic subject for study.

 

[Ennui]

I think most of the people who encounter problems with it (like myself) were raised to have some specific religious alignment, Christian in my case.

 

[tehsolace]

I'm in the same boat, my friend. It's not irrational - weirdness in the family isn't something anyone wants, and it could conceivably take them some time to accept and get used to it. That's why I'm waiting until college and just dropping hints now and then.

Yea I think dropping hints has been the best strategy I've heard from this thread. If the topic comes up from the hints, then thats when I'll tell them my beliefs.

 

[kirovman]

I think the semantical nuances that Skull dudds brought up are the most important thing to take home from this thread.