AI Video

emCee-ig said:
i for one agree, i think the AI is horrid, i have been playing on easy and the only time i died is when i fell down a cliff, meh, big deal, then i went to hard, wow, they still suck..

the AI is not that good, no game AI is good, Project IGI had decent AI in my opinon, or maybe it was just a hard game,, this

is not hard

JUST MY OPINION dont get all :flame: with me, but i love everything else about the game, the facial animation, the acting, the voice overs, the graphics (sure wish i had HDR though) the AI of the squad is just absolute shit though...

example, in a level in anticitizen, i have to guide them over a broken street to a part where this chick is helping heal a duded, they wont come, i have to get in there sight before they move toward me

boo
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Well, you are playing it on easy and it isnt hard.

HOLY CRAP VALVE MUST DIE!
 
Just like I said before.. If you look for a flaw, you WILL find one.. No matter what game it is.

Obviously these idiots that made the movie were looking hard to find AI flaws.. Nobody who plays the game like a normal person would could have discovered them.
 
Here's the thing I've notice: the AI isn't particularly adept at dealing with aggressive players. This is primarily because the player has more powerful weapons and can absorb a considerable amount of damage before going down. Essentially, a player who charges in with guns a-blazin' will kill the AI before it really has a chance to do much of anything. It'll attempt to back up or strafe, but it usually dies before it takes more than a few steps.

If the player is more defensive then the AI can really shine. It'll duck and weave between objects to stay concealed, it'll flush the player out with very accurately thrown grenades, it'll seek cover to reload, it'll lay down cover fire while its allies advance and flank you whenever possible.

So I suppose what is needed is some sort of mod that makes it much tougher and riskier to rush the AI and forces the player to play more defensively. It would probably be sufficient to give the AI more hitpoints along with more powerful weapons and increased accuracy. The only problem is, such AI could be murderously difficult if there is insufficient cover for the player.
 
Eh. AI means nothing to me. So far all the AI I've seen in every game has been RUSH THE PLAYER WITH EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT!!!!!1111!!1!

No, I don't pay attention. No, I never will.
 
ROFL, that video was pretty sweet, but it's equally funny watching everyone try to defend the AI and attack the guys who made the video.

Don't take it personal hl2 fans, it's no big deal. HL2 was a fun game, but the AI wasn't all it was cracked up to be pre-release. But then, when is that not the case?

Try to stay in touch with your sense of humor.
 
Umm, th Ai in HL2 is so seems to be the best I have seen yut. Not likely to get better soon either, sine many game companies focuns on the graphics voer everuythign else. I have seen the 2Hl AI flank me, and react well to blked doors (*sedpite whjat sope of you say), and I have seen the friendly Ai do SOME squad tactics well... Enough for me to feel bad whe i lost tome to grenades, etxc. I think that the reason everyone notices "how bad" the ai is is that they have more health thaqn in most fames like Far Cry, doooom etc.

Sorry for bat dyping, drunk -- my friend from work dies today of heart attack at 31 ;( ;(
 
Mountain Man said:
Here's the thing I've notice: the AI isn't particularly adept at dealing with aggressive players. This is primarily because the player has more powerful weapons and can absorb a considerable amount of damage before going down. Essentially, a player who charges in with guns a-blazin' will kill the AI before it really has a chance to do much of anything. It'll attempt to back up or strafe, but it usually dies before it takes more than a few steps.

If the player is more defensive then the AI can really shine. It'll duck and weave between objects to stay concealed, it'll flush the player out with very accurately thrown grenades, it'll seek cover to reload, it'll lay down cover fire while its allies advance and flank you whenever possible.

So I suppose what is needed is some sort of mod that makes it much tougher and riskier to rush the AI and forces the player to play more defensively. It would probably be sufficient to give the AI more hitpoints along with more powerful weapons and increased accuracy. The only problem is, such AI could be murderously difficult if there is insufficient cover for the player.
Click to expand...

I agree. Note this Health/Weapon guide from Half-Life Fallout.

Combine Metrocop: 26 health
Combine Soldier: 50 health
Combine Elite: 75 health

To review. The Combine:

1. Are slower (easy to change if the setting files are found);
2. Are less accurate (easy to change if the setting files are found);
3. Have weapons that do less damage; and
4. Have much less health.

When you throw in that HL2 is about a single player saving the worlds against all odds, there is an intentional illusion that you can overcome these overwhelming odds.

HL2 is not perfect, and the AI could be better (duh... we will never stop saying that). But we really need to look at the AI within the scope of what it was intended and designed to do. And having watched a few people play I can safely say that HL2 and the AI are good enough for 90% of players. Yeah it does dumb things at times, and yes there are some bugs, but I still think it has great AI. I am not sure if it is the best ever (definiately competes with any other FPS though) but it does do the job of pushing the HL2 story along very well.

Maybe a survey of some other top games looking at all the AI pros and cons and evaluating them within their game design would be more fair. That would be a massive project, but it would be interesting.
 
If the player is more defensive then the AI can really shine. It'll duck and weave between objects to stay concealed, it'll flush the player out with very accurately thrown grenades, it'll seek cover to reload, it'll lay down cover fire while its allies advance and flank you whenever possible.
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This m kes senmze, since I mave noticed that I see a mor better response from AI than man people report. I thnk it my be becausei have a diffrnt playstyle (more defensince) than others.
 
I've had far more cool AI moments than bad AI moments, but they do exist.
On the coast, I slammed my buggy through a fence at full speed, stopping three feet away from two combines, charged up the gun for a second, shot one in the head, charged up the gun for another second, shot the other in the head and they didn't even try to turn around.

The AI can be insanely good at times though, which makes me think that the combine were intentionally stupidified.

The gunships, the manhacks, the rollermines, all three headcrabs, all three zombies, the hunter-chopper, the antlions, the antlion guards. Basically, everything other than the actual troops were extremely good.

As for the the combine troops themselves, I'd only rate them as okay. They definitely need to be faster and more accurate. Then they'd be deadly.
 
fifty7var said:
in looking through the AI code for the combine, there are comments in reference to charging saying something along the lines of "charge at the player more frequently because physics combat is more fun at close range."

I thought the AI was pretty decent, no major problems with it. I wouldn't have minded another difficulty level or two above hard though.
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I have to disagree with those comments.. I think it is way more immersive if the combine make use of cover instead of just trying to get as close as possible to you all the time.
 
I adore HL2, but cmon guys, the AI of the finished product is lacking. And FarCry (now I'm not saying it is better, but..) did have impressive AI, especially in taking cover or reacting from your shots. At least in FC they'd retreat if you were beginning to overpower them, so they could ambush you further along the line.
The Trigen Ai was dumb as hell though.
That's a point on the HL2 AI, they just stand there and take the hits. There should be reaction to locational damage (has nobdy learned anything from Soldier of Fortune? Shallow and boring games, but the fact that injured soldiers limp and even react to where they get hit is nice) and if you're pummeling them with bullets, they should run for cover.
 
The basic points of the vid were:
1.Inaccurate hitboxes
2.Doors cannot be jammed
3.Combine do not react if player is obscured by physical objects (even small ones)
3.5 Combine will stand over a dead enemy but won't react unless player is directly visible

When it is pointed out to me like this (and in a partly comical manner), I can see that there are AI problems that I haven't encountered before. It could be said that these are relatively few and not very obvious compared to AI promblems in other games and that most people did have 'flawless' experiences with the game. I guess the video is just pointing out that we have quite a ways to go before we have really intelligently behaving AI... which is kind of obvious considering the technology we are still using.
 
The problem with HL2's A.I. is that - The weapons are TOO DAMN OVERPOWERED. Also, they hardly have any health.

Literally - valve made the game too easy on those terms. But still, Far Cry's A.I. is good, as in they do stupid things but also have better level control. HL2's A.I. sometimes get confused and stuck in the level.

The reason why people are very dissapointed is that HL's A.I. was revoltionary - and HL2's was competent at best.
 
lans said:
The problem with HL2's A.I. is that - The weapons are TOO DAMN OVERPOWERED. Also, they hardly have any health.
Click to expand...
Not sure what the weapons have to do with the AI and I don't think you say that the weapons are overpowered when someone won't die from being shot in the head a couple of times.

The players weapon X and the enemies weapon X should make just as much damage as the other. And more damage than they do now.
 
Wow. That video was just as I felt. Maybe they took it a little too harsh, but at least it was all true. ;(

I guess that is what multiplayer is for. The AI in multiplay is a lot smarter than the scripted AI in the game. :O

And again, no game is perfect. Every game has its flaws.
 
People have to remember that we are the minority. Games these days are aimed at a far wider audience than they even were when the original Half Life came out.

Therefore, the game is not so much about providing big challenges as giving you something to keep you busy and keep your adrenaline up while you play in this world.

It's part of the transition from games like Space Invaders to becoming more like other media such as books or films where difficulty is really quite irrelevant. Perhaps we will end up in a situation where singleplayer is mainly about the experience while multiplayer games provide the real challenge.
 
I'll admit I was a little dissapointed with the A.I the first time I played HL2. I beat the game on normal, and while I felt it was the best first person shooter I've ever played I also felt the A.I wasn't as good as I had been expecting.

Then I started playing through the game again on hard, and developed a whole new respect for the A.I. Now, I'll admit I'm not the best player around. I can keep my kills above my deaths in an online game and even come out on top sometimes, but I'm hardly a walking tower of ownage. Many people who have posted in this thread are correct when they say the A.I has its chance to shine when you play defensively.

Just today I truly realized how great some of the behaviors the Combine soldiers are capable of are.
It was the scene in the courtyard, where Alyx is disabling the protective field on the first generator.
The enemy was approaching from both directions and I found myself pinned down and getting the crap shot out of me, yet instead of shooting back I watched with glee as the Combine moved in cover to cover formation, one man shooting while the other strafed to the next position, tossing grenades with rather devastating accuracy towards me and cutting down my Resistance soldiers left and right.

Another instance had me trapped in the attic of a house. I heard the Combine outside, and the door downstairs open. One man ascended the stairway to the attic, searching for me and I promply blew his brains out with a shotgun. I'll admit at the point I expected the A.I to stupidly follow in his footsteps, one by one up the stairs. But they didn't. After the first soldier had met his grisly fate, they retreated outside the house and camped the first floor windows, waiting for me to come down. I tried dropping a grenade out the window but without a proper angle, I had no choice but to make my way down in the open as quickly as possible and find cover.

No, the A.I isn't perfect. Yes, I've seen them do some pretty stupid things, but I've seen that happen in every game I've played. But I hardly think it is as deserving of criticism as some seem to think, especially when you consider that, as one reviewer pointed out, most of that criticism is coming from people who are godly against other human players.

However, some of the complaints I've seen I must state are simply untrue, such as the Combine don't retreat. Many times in my playing after laying down a withering amount of fire I've forced the Combine to fall back to different positions. Also some people have said you can't block doors. I don't know what Half-Life 2 they were playing, but you most certainly can block doors. I've done it several times.

My only true complaints lie with the Friendly A.I of the Resistance, who seem to get in the way more than they do any real damage.
 
I guess my problem is that I'm extremely aggressive.
I see Combine enemy, I whip out my shotgun, get in his face, blow his brains out, rinse, lather, repeat.
If anyone tells me how I can find the skill.cfg file, and edit it, I'd really, really appreciate it.
 
...HL2 AI wasnt perfect, well theres a shock.

Do you guys realise how computationally expensive good AI is? Yeah, valve could release an AI patch, give the soldiers learning capabilities using an evolutionary algorithm or cartesian genetic algorithm, and the soldiers would learn how to deal with you. The downside of course is that you could never have more than 2 enemies at once and it wouldnt be any fun.

Personally ill take mediocre AI with a heavy reliance on scripting and map nodes over fighting one (better) soldier at a time. Whos going to notice if the soldier has better AI anyhow? They're dead pretty damn quick.
 
Mr-Fusion said:
Well it's a good example of the current state of AI in computer games in general. People wouldn't focus on the easily exploitable AI problems of Far Cry, Call of Duty, Doom 3, Painkiller. Why then is there a lot of focus on HAlf-Life 2's? Expectations based off the '03 E3 video? Were people expecting every single element of Half-Life 2 to be revolutionary? Probably....but when they saw that the AI was about the same standard as every other FPS game over the last few years it stands out.

Because of the low damage and accuracy of the enemies in half-life 2 it gives your mind more time to focus on the way they behave. In Far Cry you're too busy dodging machine fire from a merc 4 km away to notice that it's ridiculous that he can see you and shoot that accurately from that distance. As a consequence your mind tells you "phwaoor these guys are damn good, this AI is awesome!"

/runs off to far cry message board
"THIS AI IS AWESOME"

To me it seems as if AI development in games has plateaued. No-one is really challenging the current standard of AI in games. I thought Valve might have a stab at it, but Half-Life 2's development period (with source code thefts and court cases) was probably the worst in the history of computer games. They probably planned to have awesome AI but just had to drop the idea and go for the standard because the game went horribly over schedule.
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yep you said it all my opinion also
i do think that AI will have have more impact on future game developements because now its surely one of the main flaws in todays games
 
OperationZen said:
give the soldiers learning capabilities using an evolutionary algorithm or cartesian genetic algorithm
Click to expand...
Hello, are you from the Starship Enterprise?

But i guess you're right. Out of curiosity I wonder what kind of CPU Hal9000 would be running on.
 
Stop complaining about the spawning AI problems! If you were suddenly dropped in an entirely new situation about which you knew nothing (i.e. no AI node points on the map) would you act 'intelligently'? I'd go 'holy crap there's this thing shooting at me! I have no time to think, must kill! Closer I am better accuracy therefore I run and shoot!'.

Shocking.

Unless you have some *amazing* AI learning routines (and they'd have to be very very good) they wouldn't suddenly think 'oooh there's a wall I'd better hide behind it' ... this is down to the way the wall would need to be defined as cover first, as our brains do. To do this on a PC would require the AI instantaneously scanning the entire area for objects, and seeing if they block the line of sight, are large enough, and 'usable'.
 
Well done, but don't try and show off next time ... give us the links before we go 'hunh?'
:)
 
I it just me that get this when clicking the link, or did I miss something?

RIFFž±ÚAVI LISTFhdrlavih8¢Ìü–€LISTtstrlstrh8vidsDIVXÌ 'strf((€DX50LIST~strlstrh8auds“+;,'strf2"V“+ ôÿÀ@ðÌ0ÿˆÿJUNKLISTÈÜØmovi01wb*’ !$ñŽß~  õ ánððôq¯ðpà' í€!0ÏòpÐŽ`Ï %Ý ððŽ¿t Ñ 0ÝŸób@¹ à 0ÞòQP ÐpðÒW àõpÞñú!öÿð Oã_Óðîá`Ð1%Ä >Öñò@ðo#7â$Ò@ð_%ðõ_Ó0p7ÿ@"Ô>òOá2^"4Ó$O3B]Gñ1 6â0#q""B36!P!!b47007ð!!"1QE0`$B#C/Tã_#!#Äo$_PP!"AMGð!N#@"
 
OperationZen said:
Do you guys realise how computationally expensive good AI is? Yeah, valve could release an AI patch, give the soldiers learning capabilities using an evolutionary algorithm or cartesian genetic algorithm, and the soldiers would learn how to deal with you. The downside of course is that you could never have more than 2 enemies at once and it wouldnt be any fun.
Click to expand...
Using a simple learning algorithm (even a genetic one) is quite feasible, especially if you take advantage of smart coding rather than expecting the bot to learn everything from scratch. There are obvious weaknesses in the soldiers that could be fixed without adding to CPU load.
 
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umm..thats a drawing i guess. in the coast at the crane part, as you go up on the wood pier thing there's a hut(b) and then a ladder going up to a walkway(a) down to the magnet crane thinger. there were two combine at (a) and i accidently fell down to (c). one of the combine bounced a nade off the back of the hut and made it fall down to the ground where i was

edit: put in dots to fill spaces. screwed up otherwise
 
still screwed up :O oh well. they bounced a nade off the back of a hut to make it fall under the ledge they were on to get to me
 
DarkStar said:
Actually that video does raise some good points. Essentially that if the combine don't have a direct line-of-sight on you, they will totally forget that you even exist. Being able to sneak up on a guard from behind a pill bottle just shouldn't be able to happen. The thing the video forgets is that other games' AI doesn't have to contend with physics in the same way HL2 AI does, thus at least some such bugs have to be expected. It's a tough issue.
Click to expand...

That's not true - AI still come after you without LOS. For example: At the bit with the Brit Colonel, head up into the Lighthouse instead of staying put and the enemy will spot you up there and charge all the way to the top to get you.
 
sorry if it seems i was showing off, not my intention. i was just offering an opinion without thinking through the fact that not everyone is conversant with obscure theories with little to no relevance.

yeah, one of the links is a pdf format so use acrobat reader to open that one.

good point koopa, there are little flaws that could be fixed up, the whole pill box thing springs to mind, as does the standing over the body of fallen comrade. Problem is that small changes might not actually be small, the standing over body of.... thing looks like its caused by the map AI nodes and might be quite a lot of work to fix properly.
Even so its possible to hash together a fix for most of these problems, it just becomes a question of how much programmer time you have to devote to these issues.

interesting little aspect of the AI that i discovered, turn on notarget and shoot a combine soldier in the foot. he'll run to the place he was shot from, that just seems dumb to me.
 
As a soldier your job is not to run away from people that shoot you. Intelligence "don't enter into it!" </monty python quote>
 
emCee-ig said:
i for one agree, i think the AI is horrid, i have been playing on easy and the only time i died is when i fell down a cliff, meh, big deal, then i went to hard, wow, they still suck..

the AI is not that good, no game AI is good, Project IGI had decent AI in my opinon, or maybe it was just a hard game,, this

is not hard

JUST MY OPINION dont get all :flame: with me, but i love everything else about the game, the facial animation, the acting, the voice overs, the graphics (sure wish i had HDR though) the AI of the squad is just absolute shit though...

example, in a level in anticitizen, i have to guide them over a broken street to a part where this chick is helping heal a duded, they wont come, i have to get in there sight before they move toward me

boo
Click to expand...

This is boggling me for some reason. You agree with what the guy above you said, which to me, seems like he is stating that the AI is NOT "horrid", but that people like to focus on that fact. Then you basically go on to trash the AI. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
I'm surprised people even bother playing on easy first ... it just seems pointless.

Plus, it's not very surprising that guy didn't find it very difficult on hard setting having *already* played the game once and knowing everything that will be likely to happen ... d'oh! Methinks knowledge of the future often makes things appear easier.
 
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