Airstrike kills terror leader al-Zarqawi in Iraq

[Yuri]

Iraq under Saddam supported terrorism.

Yeah... no it didn't. :smoking:

 

[Hapless]

Yeah... no it didn't. :smoking:

http://husseinandterror.com/

Nope, not at all.

 

[CptStern]

When did anyone ever call it, "The War on Osama bin Laden and Those Responsible For 9/11?" I believe it's called, "The War on Terror." Terrorism did not begin with 9/11. Afghanistan under the Taliban supported and trained terrorists. Iraq under Saddam supported terrorism. That is my point.

the US has supported terrorism ...should you invade yourselves? not that that matters in the least because we're talking about whether or not I believed the war would end with osama

now, I'd like you for even a second to try to defend the notion that on sept 12/01 the american public were thinking to themselves "we shouldnt just go after osama we should strike at all terrorists worldwide simultaneously"

What was that about condescending jackasses?

that wasnt being condescending that was a valid concern

Lighten up. It's a damn internet forum.

you rarely participate and only when there's something that supports your POV ..I see this sort of disruptive behaviour on a daily basis (funnily enough exclusively from americans)

 

[French Ninja]

I would have enjoyed his death more if his head was severed by shrapnel, in a case of poetic justice, but what are you going to do...

 

[Yuri]

http://husseinandterror.com/

Nope, not at all.

Wow, what a credible source. :upstare:

It isn't sensationalized and doesn't incorporate things that have nothing to do with the connection of Saddam and terrorists at all.

(funnily enough exclusively from americans)

Haha, you just never stop, do you?

 

[CptStern]

http://husseinandterror.com/

Nope, not at all.

you didnt seem to give a shit when it suited your puposes

you also supported terrorism IN iraq in the 80's

 

[Hapless]

the US has supported terrorism ...should you invade yourselves? not that that matters in the least because we're talking about whether or not I believed the war would end with osama

now, I'd like you for even a second to try to defend the notion that on sept 12/01 the american public were thinking to themselves "we shouldnt just go after osama we should strike at all terrorists worldwide simultaneously"

Ah yes, the old, "Well, you guys did it too!"

I don't claim to know what, "the american public," was thinking on 09/12/01, and I AM an American. I guess you have your finger on the pulse of, "the american public." Maybe you should come down here and run for office.

that wasnt being condescending that was a valid concern

You have no idea what I do at my job. You will never have any idea what I do. Keep sitting there at your job posting 19,000 times to an internet forum, and don't worry about how I do my job.

you rarely participate and only when there's something that supports your POV ..I see this sort of disruptive behaviour on a daily basis (funnily enough exclusively from americans)

I forgot, I should never challenge the great Stern on his very own message board. It's been awhile.

 

[Hapless]

Wow, what a credible source. :upstare:

It isn't sensationalized and doesn't incorporate things that have nothing to do with the connection of Saddam and terrorists at all.Haha, you just never stop, do you?

Care to elaborate? Seems pretty well documented with sources cited all over the place to me.

 

[Yuri]

Care to elaborate? Seems pretty well documented with sources cited all over the place to me.

Sorry, I judged it a bit too much by its cover.

You can't deny that its ridiculously sensationalized, though.

 

[CptStern]

Ah yes, the old, "Well, you guys did it too!"

putting words into my mouth ...but you cant escape the hypocrisy of it all

I don't claim to know what, "the american public," was thinking on 09/12/01, and I AM an American. I guess you have your finger on the pulse of, "the american public."

probably to the extent that you think you know what my motivations are ...any fool can see what the average american wanted to happen after 9/11

You have no idea what I do at my job. You will never have any idea what I do. Keep sitting there at your job posting 19,000 times to an internet forum, and don't worry about how I do my job.

you seem to know what I do at my job on a daily basis ..I guess because I have 19,000 posts entitles you to make a judgement as to what I do in my life

I forgot, I should never challenge the great Stern on his very own message board. It's been awhile.

yup that's exactly what I was saying :upstare:

this is just ****ing idiotic ..nothing is ever discussed in these forums ..I spend far too much time defending myself from baseless accusations and next to no time actually debating the issue at hand

 

[Yuri]

this is just ****ing idiotic ..nothing is ever discussed in these forums ..I spend far too much time defending myself from baseless accusations and next to no time actually debating the issue at hand

Where is the debate in this thread? What is there to debate?

And once again, you're the one who called me a rightwing nutjob who doesn't care about American atrocities.

 

[VictimOfScience]

While I know that Al-Queda itself has an infrastructure where if its head (Osama) were to be killed, there are precise plans as to who fills what shoes. This is why I almost hope that he is never definitively caught/killed and displayed on the airwaves--it keeps their current heads in disarray as to who can carry out what attack and where and with what provisions.

I don't think Al-Queda in Iraq was as organized as the original group, so I don't see specific people coming up out of the ranks to fill in the missing positions. I do see a whole lot of chaos and bloodshed and backstabbing and turncoating within their ranks and without now that this has come to pass. Time will tell how much of an impact his death really had....

 

[CptStern]

Where is the debate in this thread? What is there to debate?

And once again, you're the one who called me a rightwing nutjob who doesn't care about American atrocities.

not once did I say that ..those are your words. All I said is you SOUND like them ..that is all ..you made a leap of faith

anyways, stop stirring up shit erestheux, I wasnt even addressing you and I'm not going to either

 

[SAJ]

nothing is ever discussed in these forums ..I spend far too much time defending myself from baseless accusations and next to no time actually debating the issue at hand

Dont take this the wrong way stern, but if there was anyone in the position to change the nature of the debate in here.... its you.

Like I say( and I really do mean this) dont take it as adversarial, its just that you can choose to ignore certain comments in order to focuse debate in a more constructive manner if you so wish.

Having said that I should offer something to this thread myself, only I cant think of much.
I suppose its interesting that his death was the final proof that he did indeed exist.
Its not much oh well.

 

[CptStern]

why is everything on my shoulders? why must I always restrain what I say when the people who confront me wont do the same? ..sure I can ignore it but should I? I get these sort of attacks on a weekly basis ..there comes a time when enough is enough ..say what you will but that's the stubborn part of me that wont let insults lie where they land

 

[Yuri]

not once did I say that ..those are your words. All I said is you SOUND like them ..that is all ..you made a leap of faith

anyways, stop stirring up shit erestheux, I wasnt even addressing you and I'm not going to either

Heh, the whole "I'm not talking to you!" scheme, eh?

You are definately referring to this post

oh come on erestheux, I expected better from you ..you sound like all of those rabid rightwingers who attribute being anti-war with being pro-terrorist

which is not what I was referring to, but rather this:

no offense but it is people like you that irritate me ..you have absolutely NOTHING to say when your country commits atrocites yet are quick to put your 2 cents in when the other side does the same ..it is completely hypocritical to ignore what happens in your own backyard

Right there is where you kept referring to "people like me."



My point is this will probably not do anything to deter terrorist activity, but it is still good that it occured because it brought a terrible person to justice.

 

[Hapless]

(Thus begins the devolution of this thread into an argument over semantics. YOu can actually see it in action, kids, right here!)

Did I call it, or did I call it?

 

[CptStern]

Did I call it, or did I call it?

did you just get here? they all end like that


drop it erestheux ..at least let me retain what little respect I still have for you

 

[Hapless]

putting words into my mouth ...but you cant escape the hypocrisy of it all

I really must find someone who can translate Sternese into English. So that's NOT what you were saying? Help me out here.

probably to the extent that you think you know what my motivations are ...any fool can see what the average american wanted to happen after 9/11

I must be a fool then. As it relates to this thread, what did the average American want to see happen after 9/11. With sources.

you seem to know what I do at my job on a daily basis ..I guess because I have 19,000 posts entitles you to make a judgement as to what I do in my life

I don't need to make a judgment. You've said yourself several times that you post from work all the time. BTW, I guess something I post on a forum entitles you to make a judgment about how I do my job. Two way street, brother.

yup that's exactly what I was saying :upstare:

this is just ****ing idiotic ..nothing is ever discussed in these forums ..I spend far too much time defending myself from baseless accusations and next to no time actually debating the issue at hand

You consistently start threads in this forum criticising the US, it's government, it's leaders, and at times segments of it's population, yet you act surprised and indignant when some of those Americans come here to defend the US. You portray your opinions and the opinions of others on left wing blogs and websites as fact or the gospel truth, and disparage anyone who disagrees with you as a right wing loon, a Jesus freak or whatever. Then when you get called a communist or leftist or whatever, you get mad. You make personal attacks all the time, then cry foul when someone else attacks you personally. How does it surprise you that you are constantly defending yourself?

 

[CptStern]

I really must find someone who can translate Sternese into English. So that's NOT what you were saying? Help me out here.

sigh ..you know exactly what I'm referring to ..you said this:

Afghanistan under the Taliban supported and trained terrorists. Iraq under Saddam supported terrorism. That is my point.

I called you on your hypocrisy because the US is guilty of the same thing: saddam, savak, Orlando Bosch, training of salvadorian death squads etc etc etc

I must be a fool then. As it relates to this thread, what did the average American want to see happen after 9/11. With sources.

are you shitting me? are you saying they didnt want him brought to justice, that they would rather invade iraq instead?


but I'll indulge you nevertheless ...here's my proof, dated Friday, Sep. 14, 2001:

Americans are ready for military action and most have picked out their man — Osama bin Laden. More than 80% of Americans favor military action, and a similar number support a policy of strategic assassination.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174941,00.html

now it's your turn ...prove it wasnt the case ..with sources, please

I don't need to make a judgment. You've said yourself several times that you post from work all the time. BTW, I guess something I post on a forum entitles you to make a judgment about how I do my job. Two way street, brother.

wow that's really a round about way of saying "I know what you are but what am I" .oh and I didnt state it as fact you did ..I clearly said "I hope"

You consistently start threads in this forum criticising the US, it's government, it's leaders, and at times segments of it's population,

if the shoe fits ........ again should I just ignore it?

yet you act surprised and indignant when some of those Americans come here to defend the US.

defend I have no objections, beating the messenger repeatedly and ignoring the issue at hand I object to

You portray your opinions and the opinions of others on left wing blogs and websites as fact or the gospel truth,

well then it should be easy to debunk it shouldnt it? oh and my main points about the war come from ironclad sources

and disparage anyone who disagrees with you as a right wing loon, a Jesus freak or whatever.

baseless accusation ...you know Hapless this is a bit of a role reversal for you ..I have always been civil to you, I have never called you a nutjob (that I can recall) and have always tried to remain unemotional when answering your posts ..what has changed, I'm not so sure ..however this is similiar to the backlash I got during the iraq election, seems to me that some of you take offense to me spoiling your little premature victory

Then when you get called a communist or leftist or whatever, you get mad. You make personal attacks all the time, then cry foul when someone else attacks you personally. How does it surprise you that you are constantly defending yourself?

personal attacks? that's ****ing rich, Funny how you portray it as one sided ..I rarely initiate ..in fact I'm the reason why at least a handful of people have been banned ...they broke the rules while attacking me, whereas I'm still here because I didnt

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Stern I seriously do not see what there is to be so negative about in this thread. This is a turning point. Whether it is a BIG one, or a small one is yet to be seen. But in no way is this bad news, in the LEAST.

You seem just to want to be pessimistic and can't see anything good coming out of Iraq. From a steady drip of bad news it's good to see something great come out like this. Are you going to sit there and tell me you're not happy about that?

 

[Hapless]

sigh ..you know exactly what I'm referring to ..you said this:



I called you on your hypocrisy because the US is guilty of the same thing: saddam, savak, Orlando Bosch, training of salvadorian death squads etc etc etc

I believe everything you refer to occurred during the Cold War. I don't deny that we consorted with some shady characters during that period. I think it was necessary to counter Soviet influence. You obviously disagree. Let me give you an analogy. I am currently a narcotics detective. In my position as a narcotics detective, it is absolutely necessary that I have contact with some really shady people in order to do my job effectively. All of my informants are working off felony charges. It sucks, but that's the way the game is played. If I took an absolutist view of the world, I would not be able to accomplish anything, because I would not be able to overlook what someone has done in order to get the bigger fish. Saddam was useful to us in the 80's to counter the influence of the Soviet Union in Iran. With the Soviet Union gone, he was no longer useful to us. He decided to get too big for his britches and he got dealt with. Like I said, it's how the game is played. Would we have been more or less wrong if we had allowed him to occupy Kuwait, decimate the Kurds and continue to support terrorism? You once accused me and "my ilk" of seeing the world in black and white, but I believe it is you that suffers from that condition.

are you shitting me? are you saying they didnt want him brought to justice, that they would rather invade iraq instead?


but I'll indulge you nevertheless ...here's my proof, dated Friday, Sep. 14, 2001:



http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174941,00.html

now it's your turn ...prove it wasnt the case ..with sources, please

Since the Iraq invasion took place nearly two years later, what exactly does that prove?

wow that's really a round about way of saying "I know what you are but what am I" .oh and I didnt state it as fact you did ..I clearly said "I hope"

Semantics. Are you a lawyer or a web designer?

if the shoe fits ........ again should I just ignore it?

Not at all. Feel free. But don't act shocked when people challenge you.

defend I have no objections, beating the messenger repeatedly and ignoring the issue at hand I object to

I agree there are some people on this forum who do that. I don't believe I am one of them. Most of the time we get along, except when you are in a bad mood.:cheese:

well then it should be easy to debunk it shouldnt it? oh and my main points about the war come from ironclad sources

Let's not forget, I have debunked at least one of your points. I am quite sure that given time I could debunk several more. Not all, but several. Unfortunately, I don't have the time anymore, which is why I don't post here very often anymore.

baseless accusation ...you know Hapless this is a bit of a role reversal for you ..I have always been civil to you, I have never called you a nutjob (that I can recall) and have always tried to remain unemotional when answering your posts ..what has changed, I'm not so sure ..however this is similiar to the backlash I got during the iraq election, seems to me that some of you take offense to me spoiling your little premature victory

Well, suffice to say that again, with a little time, I could debunk this. You have indeed attacked me personally. I still have our PM argument saved from WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY back, and I just read through it again. Unemotional is not how I would characterize it. As to premature victory, what are you talking about, with regard to this thread?

personal attacks? that's ****ing rich, Funny how you portray it as one sided ..I rarely initiate ..in fact I'm the reason why at least a handful of people have been banned ...they broke the rules while attacking me, whereas I'm still here because I didnt

I never said it was one sided. I was pointing out your general attitude that you are somehow being persecuted, when you do the same thing. I also remember that you had a fairly high warning level back in the day.

 

[Yuri]

Yeargh, I sent a PM because this is not the thread topic.

However, I'm sorry for beginning the attack on you Stern, as it was not really the place for it. And I'm sorry for blowing up and getting super defensive.



At the end of the day, though, some evil terrorist is dead. So yay.

 

[satch919]

Stern I seriously do not see what there is to be so negative about in this thread. This is a turning point. Whether it is a BIG one, or a small one is yet to be seen. But in no way is this bad news, in the LEAST.

You seem just to want to be pessimistic and can't see anything good coming out of Iraq. From a steady drip of bad news it's good to see something great come out like this. Are you going to sit there and tell me you're not happy about that?

I agree. Take the good news while it lasts. Innocent people are getting slaughtered in Iraq everyday. It's good to hear that those responsible for those brutal civilian deaths actually got what they deserved.

 

[B_MAN]

makes for good headlines, wonder how much points bush will gain

mmmm i concur

 

[CptStern]

Stern I seriously do not see what there is to be so negative about in this thread. This is a turning point. Whether it is a BIG one, or a small one is yet to be seen. But in no way is this bad news, in the LEAST.

You seem just to want to be pessimistic and can't see anything good coming out of Iraq. From a steady drip of bad news it's good to see something great come out like this. Are you going to sit there and tell me you're not happy about that?

perhaps I'm just more of a pragmatist/realist ...oh and this is exactly what some of you said right after the iraqi election results were broadcast

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

perhaps I'm just more of a pragmatist/realist ...oh and this is exactly what some of you said right after the iraqi election results were broadcast

Yes, that has been a positive note throughout the past years, too. The same day Zarqawi was killed the Iraqi PM declared his cabinet by giving his nominees for the defense ministry and the interior ministry (a sunni and shiite) and the parliament approved both quickly. That is progress.

 

[15357]

Guys. Guys. A terrorist that killed numerous people is dead. Whats there to argue aobut? Be happy.

 

[jverne]

I believe everything you refer to occurred during the Cold War. I don't deny that we consorted with some shady characters during that period. I think it was necessary to counter Soviet influence. You obviously disagree. Let me give you an analogy. I am currently a narcotics detective. In my position as a narcotics detective, it is absolutely necessary that I have contact with some really shady people in order to do my job effectively. All of my informants are working off felony charges. It sucks, but that's the way the game is played. If I took an absolutist view of the world, I would not be able to accomplish anything, because I would not be able to overlook what someone has done in order to get the bigger fish. Saddam was useful to us in the 80's to counter the influence of the Soviet Union in Iran. With the Soviet Union gone, he was no longer useful to us. He decided to get too big for his britches and he got dealt with. Like I said, it's how the game is played. Would we have been more or less wrong if we had allowed him to occupy Kuwait, decimate the Kurds and continue to support terrorism? You once accused me and "my ilk" of seeing the world in black and white, but I believe it is you that suffers from that condition.









Since the Iraq invasion took place nearly two years later, what exactly does that prove?








Semantics. Are you a lawyer or a web designer?









Not at all. Feel free. But don't act shocked when people challenge you.





I agree there are some people on this forum who do that. I don't believe I am one of them. Most of the time we get along, except when you are in a bad mood.:cheese:





Let's not forget, I have debunked at least one of your points. I am quite sure that given time I could debunk several more. Not all, but several. Unfortunately, I don't have the time anymore, which is why I don't post here very often anymore.






Well, suffice to say that again, with a little time, I could debunk this. You have indeed attacked me personally. I still have our PM argument saved from WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY back, and I just read through it again. Unemotional is not how I would characterize it. As to premature victory, what are you talking about, with regard to this thread?





I never said it was one sided. I was pointing out your general attitude that you are somehow being persecuted, when you do the same thing. I also remember that you had a fairly high warning level back in the day.

be quiet hapless...you got so pwnt...you ask stern for surces, then he gives you and asks to do the same. and of course you can't! you don't deserve any respect, you don't even have the decency to provide some facts to back your POV. please log off

 

[99.vikram]

I believe everything you refer to occurred during the Cold War. I don't deny that we consorted with some shady characters during that period. I think it was necessary to counter Soviet influence. You obviously disagree. Let me give you an analogy. I am currently a narcotics detective. In my position as a narcotics detective, it is absolutely necessary that I have contact with some really shady people in order to do my job effectively.

Your analogy is totally not analogous

What the US did back in the day was not only influence various factions, but literally pit them against each other by giving weapons and aid, and setting up leaders. Like a narcotics detective selling drugs for profit.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Interesting how the death of an "obvious" villain turned into an anti-american "you guys also commit attrocities" or "you guys are responsible" discussion...

England and France were also responsible for a guy like Hitler to come in place, on top of that committing tons of attrocities across the globe in their silly quest for imperialism (this before, during and even after WW2).
The US had destroyed the indians, the dutch massacred the indonesians, and Russia had a nice brute in power killing millions.

Yet.. for some reason everybody could still enjoy Hitler's death without feeling the need to start pointing fingers, or doing moral checks on each other's history..

Now my point is not to compare Hitler with al-Zarqawi or saying "lets forget the past", but al Zarqawi is a villain, which the world is better off without...

His death wont solve the issue, but even if somebody tomorrow or today will take his place, imo this still did Iraq a favor, .
So a big hurray!

 

[Solaris]

You know, The USA have probably killed more civillians trying to kill people like this al-kawiwi guy, than he has actually helped kill.

 

[Hapless]

be quiet hapless...you got so pwnt...you ask stern for surces, then he gives you and asks to do the same. and of course you can't! you don't deserve any respect, you don't even have the decency to provide some facts to back your POV. please log off

Yes sir. Whatever you say sir. Who are you again? Nobody?

 

[Ludah]

No!

And he was doing so well. ;(

RIP Zarqawi

 

[Ome_Vince]

You know, The USA have probably killed more civillians trying to kill people like this al-kawiwi guy, than he has actually helped kill.

Its "Al-Zarqawi" not "al kawiwi" which is probably something i ate here in India last week

Also,any numbers to back that thought up?
And even if that were true than this solves 2 problems:
-US who is probably killing more civilians trying to kill him (according to solaris)
-Al Zarqawi killing civilians and generating anarchy.

:stare:

 

[15357]

No!

And he was doing so well. ;(

RIP Zarqawi

ENEMY OF THE FREE WORLD! REACTIONARY LEFTIST ELEMENT! DIE!

hehe

 

[VictimOfScience]

No!

And he was doing so well. ;(

RIP Zarqawi

Yeah, well, you could always take up the cause. Go ahead, your brothers are waiting...:|

 

[Yuri]

What a super cool thing to say, Ludah...



By the way, I'd like to take this time to retract my public bashing of CptStern because I was acting like a total dick.

I'd also like to take the time to tell Stern to empty his damn PM's because the last part of my 3-part PM can't be sent ;P

 

[Ludah]

What a super cool thing to say, Ludah...

Because I'm such a super cool dude.

 

[Yuri]

Obviously.