America's Education System Is Fine

samusaran253

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After seeing some people, mostly Europeans, claim that all Americans are stupid because our "education system is worse than North Korea's" and making other baseless claims like that, I've decided to share my own experience with the education system of the United States. After going through America's 13 year system, let me say this, it was easy. I wish I could be one of those people who say that high school (the last 4 years of the education system; the last 6 years, if you count junior high school), but they weren't, in fact I am a much happier person now than I was in high school. By no means am I implying that the American education system is perfect, since no system is entirely perfect, but it's definitely not as bad as the liberal media makes it out to be.

No, I'm not a prodigy or anything, but I went through the education system and it worked fine. I didn't go to some fascist Orwellian high school with metal detectors, school uniforms, strict dress code, drug sniffing dogs, or police everywhere. I also didn't go to a run-down high school with gangs, violence, bullying, or anything like that. I just went to a normal American high school. Please note that I am basing this entire thread upon my personal experience, which was with a high school in a semi-rural area, and by no means represents urban (city) high schools, which are likely gang infested.

I went through the system like everyone else, did my education like everyone else, K-6, 7-8, and 9-12, and I wasn't generally a straight A student, nor did I have perfect behavior. I definitely could have been a straight A student had I applied myself more, but that was not the fault of the education system, that was a fault of my own. I am an extremely intelligent human being, and have been since I was about 13. I can code and design an entire fully functional website in less than an hour, I am informed about almost all political issues and have opinions on them, I study political ideologies and religions in my free time to further my knowledge, I know how the world works both in high school and after it, and I was always a step ahead of most of my peers, and still am today in many cases.

We teach our children and later our teenagers just fine, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Does that mean I want to lessen funding towards education? No, in fact I want to increase funding towards education. I feel as though education is very important for today's young people, but remember, high school is all about learning how to become a productive and social member of society, K-6 on the other hand is all about learning basics such as the English language, science, mathematics, and other core classes. My school district never had the best funding, and in my final year of high school it was/is crumbling now, because of lack of state funding. It has gotten so bad that they had to close down a lot of elementary schools in the area, and merge them with other elementary schools. They're even planning on merging an elementary school with my local junior high school, which many of the locals, myself included, are strongly against.

Now lets get down to the social aspect, high school has virtually no bullying, bullying is something little kids do in the K-6 system, not teenagers. No, I wasn't some popular football playing jock who had a cheerleader girlfriend, in fact, I was the opposite. I was the video game playing geek with practically no friends. Sure, I had some "friends" who I would hang out with at school and talk to online, but like most people, I only had maybe one or two real friends. But even within my own group, I was one of the people who just didn't fit in entirely, despite me being one of the two leaders of the group, and the administrator of the group's official message board. We had cliques, of course, like every high school does, there were the jocks, the emos, the stoners, the cheerleaders, the preps, the band geeks, the goths, us gamers, and all other kinds of cliques, and of course there was also individuality. But cliques are nothing like what Hollywood makes it out to be, everyone gets along with everyone else, and everyone has friends in every group, and all groups peacefully socialize with each other.

There were no gangs, but again, I've never lived in a major city, especially not a poor area of a city. We did have some drugs though, of course there was alcohol and smoking, but never on campus, and those are of course general things teenagers do to rebel (or because they get addicted). There wasn't any peer pressure though, no one ever pressured you into doing drugs, or even really asked you too. Of course, there's the occasional pot, but pretty much no one got into the hard drugs, maybe a few of the stoners did some of the hardcore stuff like meth, but no one I know (aside from one girl, but she graduated a few years before me). Now then, teen sex, sure, there was a lot of that, but most people played it safe and used condoms and/or birth control. There were a handful of pregnancies each year, but they brought that upon themselves. As for fashion, let me say that, like most guys, I'm not very adept when it comes to fashion. I would just wear whatever I felt like, and never got made fun of or singled out too much. Sure, there were the preps who always wore Hollister or the emos who generally wore darker clothing, but it certainly wasn't a fashion contest or anything like that.

I'd say the school system is pretty damn good, if not the best in the world. Sure, after high school, like most people, I missed it, and still do sometimes. I wish I could go back and be 13 again, a teenager, and start my adult/teenage life over. But all-in-all I'm glad of the person I am now, I'm not rich or overly successful yet, but I work hard and I'm getting there, since that's what America is all about, hard-work and making your own future. The school system has already vastly improved, my baby brother learned in 3rd grade what they taught me and everyone else in 5th grade. He was learning multiplication and division in like second grade. So yes, I'm glad our school system is making strides to become better, because our young people are the future of this country. Do I think we need to completely overhaul the school system? No. Do I think we need to take extreme stances like metal detectors, teachers beating students, school uniforms, strict dress codes, search and seizures every 2 hours, drug sniffing dogs, or anything like that? No. But I do think we need to fund education more, and with that, I bid adieu.
 
I'm still reading your first paragraph but I think you should have proofread this:

"I wish I could be one of those people who say that high school (the last 4 years of the education system; the last 6 years, if you count junior high school), but they weren't, in fact I am a much happier person now than I was in high school."

I'm guessing the phrase "was the happiest time of my life" or some such was supposed to be somewhere before or after your statement in the brackets. I'll continue reading the rest anyway.

Edit: Ok here's my reply

I am basing this entire thread upon my personal experience, which was with a high school in a semi-rural area, and by no means represents urban (city) high schools, which are likely gang infested.
Then how can you possibly claim that you're speaking for the American school system? What you seem to be saying is that some schools (the one you went to) are ok therefore the entire education system is good. You mention that Orwellian schools with drug sniffing dogs exist and then you completely ignore that fact and talk only about your school. The American education system was not set up to educate you. It has not succeeded or proved itself adequate by educating you. The fact that drug and gang infused schools that need metal detectors is not something that you can just gloss over because you had a good school.

My school district never had the best funding, and in my final year of high school it was/is crumbling now, because of lack of state funding. It has gotten so bad that they had to close down a lot of elementary schools in the area, and merge them with other elementary schools. They're even planning on merging an elementary school with my local junior high school, which many of the locals, myself included, are strongly against.
And this is a post arguing that the education system is fine? How is this fine? You're saying you're strongly against the way the education system is going while also saying it's fine?



I'd say the school system is pretty damn good, if not the best in the world.
Based on what exactly? What you've said so far is
  • Some schools are not Orwellian hellholes
  • There wasn't bullying
  • Schools are being shut down due to lack of funding
  • There were cliques but everyone got along
  • Not too much drugs
And this equals best education system in the world? Sounds like my experience in school except for the fact that in mine the schools were expanding due to funding being made available.



You also fail to have mentioned a single thing about the actual standard of education, what the textbooks are like, if the teachers are motivated or even decent, what you have learned and how you were encouraged to learn, if you were taught properly or were told that creationism is science or if the choice of subjects made available to you was adequate. I actually find it pretty astounding that you wrote such a post attempting to defend America's education system without once mentioning anything to do with education other than saying that after sixth grade all that matters is teaching people to be social, which I completely disagree with.
 
No, I'm not a prodigy or anything

ya we kinda guessed that when you said your 13 years of education ended at highschool ;)
 
I don't think you can broadbrush the whole system. Schools in affluent neighbourhoods are probably quite good, I don't think their is the same level of investment in inner city schools. The same thing happens in the UK, affleunt schools wipe the floor with poor school in exam results. The school, I went to got 65% of its funding from donations and tuition fees.
 
Depends on where you live in my opinion. I can't vouch for other states but being a student in Florida was rage inducing. Why? Because of the stupid FCAT, which, for those outside of Florida who don't know what that is, stands for the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test. Every year, from 3rd grade to 11th grade we had to take this test. And from 3rd to 11th grade all I was ever taught was how to take this damn test. Instead of teaching us real life stuff we could use we were taught how to take the FCAT and how to pass it so we could go on to the next grade. It didn't really matter if you were a straight A student, if you failed this one test you were held back until you passed it (I shouldn't say it was always like this, if you could prove you were a good student but a bad test taker you could go on.) Instead of learning real math or real science we were taught the math and science that would be on the FCAT. Hell, even teachers salaries and compensations were based in part on how well their students' did on the tests. So if you were a teacher in a failing district your pay was affected by how well the students did on the tests.

Never once was I taught how to balance a checkbook or learn personal finance. Stuff like that I thankfully had my parents teach to me and I learned from their successes and failures. Now that I'm in my third year of college I'm just now beginning to learn this stuff. Again, it might differ from state to state and it could've just been my high school, but we were never required to take finance classes or even humanities. The only languages they offered at my high school were Spanish and German, and you were only required to take two years of either one.

One good thing I can say about my school district was that they offered a program called Collegiate High School which was a program where you could get your AA degree from the local community college while you were in high school. I did this program and I walked across the stage at my graduation with both my AA degree and my high school diploma. The best part was it didn't cost me a dime and it was all free. There were about 11 students from my school who did this and I think it is a fantastic program.
 
USA is above England, but behind South Korea.

PISA-rankings-within-OECD-001.jpg
 
You never had any drinking nor smoking on your school campus? That's pretty hard to believe.
 
Is the US 14th or 17th on that chart, the UK got more points than the US.
 
Yeah, I was going to say that. If you add up all the points the US is 1489 and the UK is a round 1500 (I think).

At this point I would make some kind of crack about the US education system's success in teaching people how to properly analyse information on a pseudograph, but that would just be childish.
 
Yeah, I was going to say that. If you add up all the points the US is 1489 and the UK is a round 1500 (I think).

At this point I would make some kind of crack about the US education system's success in teaching people how to properly analyse information on a pseudograph, but that would just be childish.
I think the weights are different for each column. I'd certainly consider reading a more important skill than math or science. Everything follows from being able to read.
 
I think you follow the line too the score, so Finland is 1st and South Korea is 3rd
 
1. Finland: 1631
2. South Korea: 1623
3. Japan: 1588
4. Canada: 1580
5. New Zealand: 1572
6. Australia: 1556
7. Netherlands: 1556
8. Switzerland: 1552
9. Estonia: 1541
10. Germany: 1530
11. Belgium: 1528
12. Poland: 1503
13. Iceland: 1503
14. Norway: 1501
15. UK: 1500
16. Denmark: 1497
17. Slovenia: 1496
18. Ireland: 1491
19. France: 1491
20. US: 1489
21. Hungary: 1487
22. Sweden: 1486
23. Portugal: 1469
24. Italy: 1458
25. Greece: 1419
...

It doesn't look like the original Guardian table is any more advanced than highest to lowest score in each field and nations are sorted by their score in reading.
 
I would have thought socialist childcare Sweden would have done better, although Sweden has a third world immigration problem, which will push the score down.
 
America's Education System is Fine
After going through America's 13 year system, let me say this, it was easy.

Thats some solid logic right there. "Its easy work, therefore the schools are doing fine!"

Riomhaire has it right. You can't speak for the entire system just because you went through a tiny piece of it. I got a good education as well, but all I need to do is objectively look at the next closest town's school to see that my experience doesn't reflect the normal state of affairs for the rest of the system. You are lucky to have received a good education, many people don't in this nation. Look up the statistics, and the facts become clear. Your subjective analysis of the system can only speak for yourself, an objective look is required to see the overall situation.
 
You know, these threads always remind me of a pissing contest. "My country is best!" "No! My country is better!" based on some arbitrary criteria like test scores. It's ridiculous.
 
quiet you! <cracks whip> only people from countries in the top 10 are allowed to speak
 
USA is above England, but behind South Korea.

PISA-rankings-within-OECD-001.jpg

**** yeah we're awesome. I mean, I even came to school on summer and winter vacations, studied until my tear ducts got cauterized, and I was considered to be normal.

I wouldn't have it any other way, except maybe wipe finland off the map.


So damn awesome, we are.

EDIT: I find it disturbing that we're only 3rd in Science. I blame the churches and their inquisitions.
 
At least Mexico, Chile and Turkey are consistent. Everyone else is all spazzy on that graph.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
Canada sure doesn't feel all that well-educated.

What do you mean

5aHrf.jpg



Weird how some countries are either really good at math, or really bad at it (compared to their other scores)
 
You know, these threads always remind me of a pissing contest. "My country is best!" "No! My country is better!" based on some arbitrary criteria like test scores. It's ridiculous.

I don't feel like that happens at all. I'm very happy with my public education. I know there are countries (and other American schools) who get better funding and resources, but I believe if you're a good student interested in your own education you can do pretty well in most situations. The problem is that the majority of students aren't going to be motivated and need more from the system to get what's best for them, and we just don't have the structure or money to do anything but leave the majority of kids in the dust. I don't know where America ranks, but I know we could certainly do better.
 
I don't really understand the need for this huge wall of text. I always thought America bashing was in jest. The same way we bash other countries like Canada(lolwut have they done) and Japan(more like gay) and all of Europe(how come you guys can't get along for more than a century at a time? and LOL UR WELCOME 4 BAILING U OUT IN TWO WARS) and stuff, for shit they do that's stupid. I guess some people might be serious but if you really think you can generalize an entire country based on a few very loud people then I think you're the problem.

I've loved the majority of my education. It seems like all of my history/government teachers have been the kind that told us about things not in the book, in their own views, and that was what really was an enriching learning experience. I personally think the opinions and views of others taken into account always have more weight than shit written in a book published by the state.
 
How come China isn't on that list?

I actually wanted to compare between Japan, Korea and China. China should be top, or a close second to Korea.

As for American education. Well, it's probably below average for a highly developed country, certainly not the worst. Still far from "fine" though.
 
You know, if this was just a story about your subjective experiences in a high school in middle-class America, it might have been an interesting thread. But that you can even think that your personal experiences somehow lifts up the entire American school system, of God knows how many thousands of schools, to be number one in the world, shows how ill-educated you are in the art of argumentation and debate.

Bullying is a huge, huge problem for countless of children everywhere, and that you dare to even deny its existence is just astonishing.
 
After reading this I really wanted to do a Sternesque line by line destruction of the OP, but I spent 6 hours in bed hung over, then had to tidy the house and now I'm a bit drunk again. I will do it tomorrow. Expect me.
 
I'm going to take this chance to say that I think the UK education system is sh*t because I had a really bad time in school with bullying, left in year 10 and didn't take my GCSEs.


These kind of jokes are starting to get old now, aren't they? Oh, well. I felt it had to be said.
 
I don't feel like that happens at all. I'm very happy with my public education. I know there are countries (and other American schools) who get better funding and resources, but I believe if you're a good student interested in your own education you can do pretty well in most situations. The problem is that the majority of students aren't going to be motivated and need more from the system to get what's best for them, and we just don't have the structure or money to do anything but leave the majority of kids in the dust. I don't know where America ranks, but I know we could certainly do better.

I kinda agree with this. I went to one of the better public high schools in Houston, and spent most of my time in AP/IB classes where everyone was motivated and are mostly doing well nowadays, 6 years down the line. But once I'd sat in a regular high school math class for about an hour, which was possibly even worse than being in elementary or middle school. Those kids were totally out of control, and I'm not sure I'd say they were left in the dust. It's hard to blame the teacher when every kid is being crappy on their own accord -- the teacher can't force everyone to pay attention. It was like these kids had just never decided to mature past the age of 12.

So you can't entirely blame the school system or even how much money we have to throw at it. Some kids simply don't care, possibly due to poor parenting. This maybe contributes to why South Korea is so high on the charts (in combination with the quality of education) -- because, y'know, Asian parents.......
 
I was pretty shocked when I went to my University and took some of the required math classes. First of all, I didnt even have to take the first one because I tested out of it because it was so, so easy, but a ton of people from my class had to take it. Then we had required math classes I couldn't test out of, and they were ridiculously easy for me as well, but a lot of people had so much trouble with it. The first one went pretty smoothly for most people, but it was like some basic algebra and trig which I had taken in my early high school years. Then was physics, which I had also taken in High School, and people were DESTROYED by it. Like, seriously, some girls were literally crying because they couldn't handle it, and almost everyone else was seriously freaked the **** out that they were going to fail and have to pay to take the class again.

Granted it was like a full semester physics course packed into a single month, and they were certainly putting a lot of effort into trying to understand it, even staying around for like six hours after our scheduled eight hours. But god damn I've never seen people so unprepared for math. Our group was the first to have that particular class, so after we went through it they dropped the workload by a ton (they may have split it into two classes, I don't remember). I just found it very odd, since my high school education gave me a pretty good foundation, and basically all I had to do was recall some of the stuff I learned as a junior in high school.

Anyways, that was my experience.
 
Now that you mention it, I did notice the unpreparedness at my university too -- I took an easy astronomy class for fun, and the people in that class were having a really difficult time with simple physics. This was one of those "science" electives designed for non-science majors though, so understanding physics wasn't exactly at the top of their priorities list.

Within my own major, the deciding factor in making it through a class always seemed to be how much of a slacker you were. Like, even if you were only kinda smart but either tried hard or got someone to help you, you'd probably make it through all the classes. Maybe I just noticed all the slackers because I ended up hanging out with them :p.
 
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