Andrea Yates NOT GUILTY of drowning her 5 children!

She deserves to die. But with either imprisonment or a mental hospital, shes out of society, hopefully forever.
 
No Limit said:
What I am saying is every sane killing has some rational reasoning behind it. I want to get my wives insurance policy so I kill her, my friend sleeps with my wife so I kill them both, or I am a sick **** that just likes to see people die so I go on a killing spree. As horrible and as crazy all that sounds there is a somewhat rational reasoning behind the killing. In Yates case there is absolutely no rational motive, none. She was brainwashed by a cult to think that their children would go to hell if they reached age 12, so she killed all of them to prevent that from happening. That reasoning clearly isn't sane. And unless you argue the sanity of that reasoning your point or simply getting revenge has no real merit in our legal system.
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The thing is though, in a mental institution, you've got cosy beds, people you can socialize with, game nights, good food, clean water, nobody is trying to buttrape you...
 
It depresses me to actually know there are people out there that completely fail to see how a mental illness can make people do things they would never do if they were sane. For all your religious nuts out there remember that they were put on this earth mentally ill by god, they never had control of their actions from the very beginning. And instead of trying to understand that mental illness so this kind of thind doesn't ever happen again you guys think it would be much easier to simply kill her. I don't understand it.
 
Her existence is pointless and thus far has resulted in the deaths of 5 people.

Tell me why she should live? I say turn her into fertilizer.
 
None as yet. But I'm perfectly capable of it- as are you, or almost any other human being. Her being capable of killing- or having killed- does not make her "unworthy of living" in any way. You seem to be forgetting what "justice" means.
 
JNightshade said:
None as yet. But I'm perfectly capable of it- as are you, or almost any other human being. Her being capable of killing- or having killed- does not make her "unworthy of living" in any way. You seem to be forgetting what "justice" means.
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I am not capable of murder. I can't even kill a bug.
And until you kill someone I don't think you can say you are capable of it. That's like saying you can fly an airliner when you've never tried.
Raeven0 said:
Was it her fault?
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Absolutely. Even if she's crazy, it's her crazy, not anyone elses. I cannot stand people being shown sympathy in situations like this because of their mental state. If something is broken you either fix it or throw it out. Homicidal insanity is not something that can be fixed, and if it can, it was never broken to begin with.
My bet is she killed them out of unbridled anger and stress over having 5 children.

Chicks kill their babies all the time. It's not insanity. It's murder.
 
Peoples mental state can be effected by eternal stimulus.

I personally think everyone should go to rehab centers and not prisons.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Homicidal insanity is not something that can be fixed, and if it can, it was never broken to begin with.
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You might've stated this outright the first time. It's called a premise.

Now. Prove your premise.
 
No Limit said:
It depresses me to actually know there are people out there that completely fail to see how a mental illness can make people do things they would never do if they were sane. For all your religious nuts out there remember that they were put on this earth mentally ill by god, they never had control of their actions from the very beginning. And instead of trying to understand that mental illness so this kind of thind doesn't ever happen again you guys think it would be much easier to simply kill her. I don't understand it.
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:rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with religion. She knew what she was doing. She deserves to be punished for her actions. Even if you don't support the death penalty you should still be enraged by this because she should then be spending the rest her life in prison.
 
Look. I am enraged by it. I'm shocked, disgusted, and horrified. However, gut reactions are NOT what you should be listening to when administering justice. It's plain as the nose on my face that she did not have the mental capacity of a sane person when she did it. I mean, for fuck's sake, there's no sane reason to drown your children at all. So my gut tells me that she ought to burn, but I know deep down that that's not how justice works.

And Z- you may not be capable of murder, but I've been damn close. If my friend hadn't pulled me away I would've drowned someone. Don't presume to know me.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
:rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with religion. She knew what she was doing. She deserves to be punished for her actions. Even if you don't support the death penalty you should still be enraged by this because she should then be spending the rest her life in prison.
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QFT. My criminal justice teacher even agrees with this. Crazy, depressed, bad childhood...the fact is YOU did it and should receive proper punishment.
 
Raeven0 said:
You might've stated this outright the first time. It's called a premise.

Now. Prove your premise.
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I am currently researching forms of insanity applicable to this case and their treatment.
So far it's not looking good for Ms. Yates.

It's not like she just dumped a kid into a trash can or shoved a pillow over a kid's face in a stress-induced fit of rage. She systematically, knowingly, and willingly eradicated 5, count them, 12345, children. Her own children. She regretting having them and didn't want to deal with them anymore. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence, or lack of evidence supporting my claim. Does she have a history of violence? Probably not. That would mean this incident was premeditated. How can a fit of insanity be concentrated to this one instant? She had every intent of killing her kids before their fatal bath.

JNightshade said:
And Z- you may not be capable of murder, but I've been damn close. If my friend hadn't pulled me away I would've drowned someone. Don't presume to know me.
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I've pulled a large knife on someone I was in a fight with, with the intent to use it, but at the crucial moment I threw it away. I think I have been as close as anyone but a fit of rage does not equal murderous intent. Everyone is capable of untamed violence but I still say until you bring someone to the brink of death or death itself you can't say you are capable of murder. You don't know if you would have drowned the person.
Anyways it's not something to brag about.
 
A: I'm hardly bragging.

B: The systematic approach is even more proof of her insanity in my eyes. No sane person would be even capable of doing something so monstrous.
 
Well that opens up the definition of sanity to a whole 'nother level. Is insanity a simple disregard for established social conduct, or a medical condition implying one is literally not capable of following established rules of conduct?
 
shes guilty of having one of those faces u just wanna slap the ****ing shit out of, bitch.
 
JNightshade said:
None as yet. But I'm perfectly capable of it- as are you, or almost any other human being. Her being capable of killing- or having killed- does not make her "unworthy of living" in any way. You seem to be forgetting what "justice" means.
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I don't want her to die.

It just seems to me, that in this case, her insanity plea is just a last ditch attempt to avoid buttrape.
 
No Limit said:
But its just like republicans, when you are that brainwashed you should be considered mentally ill and we as a society should do everything we can to treat them of this illness as well as do everything we can to understand that illness so we can prevent the disasters it will cause.
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**** man, your comparing this to a poloticial party?? THIS SHIT?? ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME? Damn...I'm not even gonna ****ing start you piss me off...

Ok..now to my opinion...as far as the religion goes..I am personally a christian and I HATE to have things like this afiliated with my religion..It bugs ME more than anything..gives me a bad taste in my mouth.. And as for the crime itself...horrible. There are worse things than death, and she deserves them. There is no punishment suitable. Think about the lives wasted because of THAT. I mean...unless she is VERY insane..its just..impossible to explain how i feel.
 
There is a problem. Everyone who kills someone is mentally ill, unless they did it for self defence. Therefore, they should all go to a hospital?
 
15357 said:
There is a problem. Everyone who kills someone is mentally ill, unless they did it for self defence. Therefore, they should all go to a hospital?
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Are they mentally ill, or simply do not accept society's rules? That is a bigger problem.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Well that opens up the definition of sanity to a whole 'nother level. Is insanity a simple disregard for established social conduct, or a medical condition implying one is literally not capable of following established rules of conduct?
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I would go so far as to define it as a mental condition that seriously clouds judgement.
 
Raeven0 said:
I would go so far as to define it as a mental condition that seriously clouds judgement.
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That is what I believe.
What I do not believe is this woman's judgement is impaired only for this short period of time in which she kills her children. Prove to me she is clinically insane all the time, as I do not believe it can be relegated to this instance.

(I'm not literally asking anyone to prove to me anything)
 
Ok, time for my one post in the politics forum per year.

I've got to agree with JNightshade on this one. She's clearly insane. No sane mother would ever be able to do what she did. Like he said, my gut reaction is to sentence her to a punishment that's as bad, if not more horrifying than what she did, but that's not justice. Killing her isn't going to undo what she did. Sure, watching her drown would be satisfying, an eye for an eye and all that, but would we be any better off for it? Would she? Would her five children?

I'd love to see her burn, but it wouldn't accomplish anything. She should be locked away in a Mental Asylum for the rest of her life, without the possiblity of parole. Maybe, in time, doctors could fix whatever's wrong up there. If they ever do, she'll have the rest of her life to contemplate what she did.
 
bvasgm said:
I've got to agree with JNightshade on this one. She's clearly insane. No sane mother would ever be able to do what she did.
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I've already stated that this happens all the time. Young mothers throw their infant children into dumbsters and trashcans and drown them in sinks and tubs all the time because they do not want to deal with motherhood.
This scenario is defintely not infeasible seeing as the stress of motherhood is compounded 5x over normal. That is why it has recieved as much coverage as it has.
The only thing out of the oridinary in this case is a spontaneous case of murderous so-called insanity.
Her entire scheme is falling through because chumps keep falling for this shit.
 
people saying "no sane person could do this to their own children" grossly underestimate the human psyche. sane people have done FAR worse. just because someone is a shitty disgrace of a human being doesnt make them insane. just shitty people. andrea yates has gullible people like no limit up in arms to protect her because she knows that her plight appeals to the emotional response that plagues liberalism. yadda yadda yadda, you let her get off. oh no she will have to spend the rest of her time in a psychiatric resort! tragic. im sure her 5 children are rolling in their graves.

saying you did something wrong because you are a basket case is a common thing that people say in their defense. most of the time its bull.
 
Originally Posted by _Z_Ryuken
I've already stated that this happens all the time. Young mothers throw their infant children into dumbsters and trashcans and drown them in sinks and tubs all the time because they do not want to deal with motherhood.
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1_21_080304_yates_family.jpg


Something here doesn't click. Maybe it's that she's not exactly one of those pregnant teens you hear about in the news. Or that she's married. Or that she probably would've freaked out after the FIRST kid. Whatever it is, it's terribly obvious that you haven't thought out that argument at all, and have used a completely idiotic analogy.

.
 
He does have a point though. As dumb, uncommon, and most likely not the case with Ms. Yates, it's still a point. People can do horrible things.

As I said though, I doubt that's the case here.
 
sinkoman said:
I don't want her to die.

It just seems to me, that in this case, her insanity plea is just a last ditch attempt to avoid buttrape.
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Yes. People who support the insanity plea because they're against the death penalty-

She can still get life in prison.

Insanity is GETTING AWAY WITH THIS SHIT.
 
I've got to agree with JNightshade on this one. She's clearly insane. No sane mother would ever be able to do what she did.
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I'm normally quite liberal in matters like this, but pleading "insanity" is rapidly becoming a last-ditch attempt in getting a lighter sentence than prison.

She drowned, in succession, her five children. There was no "Oh crap, what have I done !" moment after the first one died (or the second, or the third, etc), as she systematically kept on killing them up until the last one. The act in itself was insane, the method used to kill her children was chillingly sane. The woman herself deserves little pity because she - killed - those five children, and insanity cannot make that fact taken in a lighter manner. While she may indeed be getting the treatment she needs, *nothing* will revive those children that she killed. They paid the price for her "madness" that some of you apparently feel allows her to come off with lesser guilt.

As it is she's now going to be in the company of fellow "mad" patients while being hooked up on various drugs to kill the muderous urge she feels while being rehabilitated about the religious beliefs she holds.

Still, killing is one thing that apparently gets easier with practise. If she gets out I guess we'll find out the validity of that statement ... :|
 
JNightshade said:
1_21_080304_yates_family.jpg


Something here doesn't click. Maybe it's that she's not exactly one of those pregnant teens you hear about in the news. Or that she's married. Or that she probably would've freaked out after the FIRST kid. Whatever it is, it's terribly obvious that you haven't thought out that argument at all, and have used a completely idiotic analogy.
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People do wild things under stress, and stress is known to build over time. Stress is not directly related as a cause of "insanity". Marriage or the age of our young children are insignificant. At that age, they would seem to put up quite a fight.
She must have used some force to subdue them, possibly separating them.
Systematic.
Premeditated.
 
Are any of us doctors? Psychologists? Psychiatrists? Specialists in mental imbalance? No?

Then why are half the people in the thread trying to apply their assumedly limited knowledge of brain-ology to the situation? Why is everybody chiming in going "well, it doesn't look insane" or "wow, she must be insane!"

Maybe that's a little harsh, but I'm inclined to trust the professionals on this one. It's what they're paid for, even if it's not guaranteed that they're right.

Gh0st said:
the emotional response that plagues liberalism
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As opposed to the emotional response that plagues supporters of the death penalty: "If it was your family who were killed..." etc. Or indeed what could be seen as a negative emotional response of "she's bad, kill her".

My client wishes it to be known he is offended by being labelled 'The Prince of Darkness'.
 
gh0st said:
people saying "no sane person could do this to their own children" grossly underestimate the human psyche. sane people have done FAR worse.
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very very very very very very very true.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Maybe that's a little harsh, but I'm inclined to trust the professionals on this one. It's what they're paid for, even if it's not guaranteed that they're right.
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Which professionals? The defense?
The prosecution has professionals as well.
This case was simply a matter of who would convince the jury.
I think, the jury was made up of people who think similarly to the people in this thread.
She killed her kids so she MUST be crazy, am I right? :rolleyes:

Jurors I should note, are NOT professionals. They are randomly selected people, and I know you know that.
HOUSTON (AP) — Before she drowned her children, Andrea Yates removed the mat inside the bathtub, turned on the water and put up the dog -- behavior that indicated she didn't want anything to get in the way of what she was about to do, a forensic psychiatrist told jurors.

She also deceived her husband so he would not suspect her plans, said Dr. Michael Welner, who evaluated Yates for two days in May.

"Her behavior demonstrates self-discipline, self-control and efficiency in carrying out the drownings of her five children," Welner told jurors Monday, testifying for the prosecution in its rebuttal phase in Yates' second murder trial.
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http://www.courttv.com/trials/yates/071806_psychiatrist_ap.html
http://www.courttv.com/trials/yates/
 
Ooh, now I'm interested in what Gh0st wrote. Care to PM me, Badgy? :p

_Z_Ryuken said:
Which professionals? The defense?
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The pyschologists? The medicals?

They are the people who get input on whether she's insane, right?
Please tell me that I haven't got the wrong end of the stick, and that the jurors get to decide if she's insane or not.
I was under the impression the delivery of an 'insane' verdict was usually influenced if not actually decided by actual professionals in the right field. D:

For the record, I agree with Gh0st - 'sane' people do horrible things all the time.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
:rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with religion. She knew what she was doing. She deserves to be punished for her actions. Even if you don't support the death penalty you should still be enraged by this because she should then be spending the rest her life in prison.
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The killing strated off by her being brainwashed by religion. But getting back to the context I used religion in. Many of the same people I hear calling for her public execution are far right religious nuts. I would like to ask those people why God put her on earth in this state.

If you are not religious I ask you if she ever had control of her actions. If you say she had control the entire time you will have to explain to me how thinking your kids will brun in hell if you don't kill them is sane and rational thinking.
 
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