Angolan border war mod for source

[shea7993]

Hi, Im currently recruiting a team for creating a game mod, unfortuanately locally all I seem to get are animators and modelers, and not so much the mappers and coders I need, right now we are 3 people, doing the roles of Game design, producer, concept artist, animation and modelers (and im going to try learn to use the hammer so I can do abit more than design and producing and managing the team). We also decided to use the HL2 source engine for our mod since mainly any PC can run the source engine and doesnt require anyone to pay and upgrade their current hardware aswell as the fact that the source SDK and modding tools are freely available, and there is large community for all needed documentation, tutorials and other resources.

Details for the game is basicly a SP and MP mod based the war on the angolan border, a signifigant part of south african history, aswell the fact that no war game is based on it, this should give alittle fresh and new perspective to war than the common WW2, vietnam and modern wars. The concept for it is to create gameplay much like call of duty, intense non-stop action (not literally non-stop) that s like a wet dream for any FPS player with an itchy trigger finger.

Anyone who feels they can help contribute their skills and knowledge, and can commit to working with us are more than welcome, no matter what your expertise, we are serious about it aswell as very commited, and would apreciate the help.

To contact me, please email me at [email protected] send me samples of your work aswell as a short paragraph of what you can contribute, and if you do have any experiance at all with any modding (especialy with the source engine), it is however not required that you have much experiance... Mappers familiar with hammer, coders familiar with source are highly needed needed.

More details of the project will be disclosed after contacting me
Thanx for taking the time to read this ad

Kind regards

Shea

 

[shea7993]

No replies??? damn, c'mon... not even a word of excitement *sigh*

 

[Yorick]

No replies??? damn, c'mon... not even a word of excitement *sigh*

I would recommend waiting more than 2 hours before going nuts about a lack of replies. Even if you had the best mod idea ever - which you don't, by the way - some people just don't check this board that much.

 

[Shinobi]

nice concept art

 

[Majestic XII]

SP and MP? You need alot more content and custom scripting (especially if you want to make it as high paced as CoD) to make a good SP than a good MP, and doing both is like commiting suicide. Focus on one gametype (MP sounds like your best bet, but we do need more SP mods around here) and do it well.

As for the idea itself... not really saying too much. You speak about where you want the mod to take place and you have these concepts but what you don't have (or maybe you have it, but not telling us) is a solid gameplay mechanic to go along with it. When I write games, I try to stick with a core game mechanic that's rather simple and "do-able" so you got the core of the gameplay done as soon as possible and can add stuff on that. Hardcore iteration work, because if everthing fails for you, at least you got the basic gameplay up and running (and you get to see if it's worth building a full game on).

Another thing to remember is that you're going to invest a very big part of your life to this project, at least a couple of years from what you describe, and the chances of failure is rather big (as it is for all mods, not just you) so I'd say; keep it simple, save time, work on a core mechanic and get it out in a reasonable time frame.

 

[shea7993]

SP and MP? You need alot more content and custom scripting (especially if you want to make it as high paced as CoD) to make a good SP than a good MP, and doing both is like commiting suicide. Focus on one gametype (MP sounds like your best bet, but we do need more SP mods around here) and do it well.

As for the idea itself... not really saying too much. You speak about where you want the mod to take place and you have these concepts but what you don't have (or maybe you have it, but not telling us) is a solid gameplay mechanic to go along with it. When I write games, I try to stick with a core game mechanic that's rather simple and "do-able" so you got the core of the gameplay done as soon as possible and can add stuff on that. Hardcore iteration work, because if everthing fails for you, at least you got the basic gameplay up and running (and you get to see if it's worth building a full game on).

Another thing to remember is that you're going to invest a very big part of your life to this project, at least a couple of years from what you describe, and the chances of failure is rather big (as it is for all mods, not just you) so I'd say; keep it simple, save time, work on a core mechanic and get it out in a reasonable time frame.

OK thanx for the pointless lecture, you didnt advise me on anything I didint know already, I already have everything you expect me to post, and thats pages and pages of documentation you want me to post here, might aswell put it up her and let everyone know... wrong, once pre-production of a playable prototype is completed then I can advertise some more specifics, coz then its worth posting those details.... what i posted now was just the necesary info: its a fps, concept is war (and not just another common war, its a war that hasnt been exploited in games before) gameplay is to be similar to call of duty, use your imagination to put that together and if your interested, contact me for other specific details... I see why no-one replies, everyone is so negative and pointing out failure, I dont expect the greatest success, but success I will have, and no im not saying this will be the greatest mod ever yet I will say this will be a playable mod, how about just trying to be positive and give some support?

 

[Yorick]

People including myself tend to be negative toward modifications when the people in charge of them obviously have no idea of what they're doing. Making a single mod that is both Single Player and Multiplayer is so ridiculously complicated that it's never going to happen. There's a reason that most RETAIL games don't do both. Figure out what you want more: Telling a story, or creating a fun multiplayer environment, and go with that. Go ahead and find me Five source mods that have been released that are both SP and MP.

Don't snap at Majestic, he's better at this than you are, and arguably will ever be. If you aren't going to listen to the advice of people who are more experienced than you, then you will be sure to fail.

If you KNOW that doing sp and mp is going to be ridiculously impossible, why are you still doing it? You don't need to put up all of your documentation, but you should put up enough to get people interested in the idea. The trick to promoting a mod is making people feel like it is more than an idea - and will actually be completed.

My advice - Spend a few years working on someone else's mod, learn programming or level design, and then make your idea. You can expect and hope people are going to be positive, but modding is pretty negative business. Thousands fail every year. Half-Life 2 has been out since November of 2004. How many mods do you think have been released for it in that almost four year timeframe? How many of them are actually worth playing? How many are ever really mentioned? Ten? Twenty? Fifty? Out of Thousands.

Best of luck, but years of experience and my own personal brand of pessimism says that this won't be happening.

 

[shea7993]

People including myself tend to be negative toward modifications when the people in charge of them obviously have no idea of what they're doing. Making a single mod that is both Single Player and Multiplayer is so ridiculously complicated that it's never going to happen. There's a reason that most RETAIL games don't do both. Figure out what you want more: Telling a story, or creating a fun multiplayer environment, and go with that. Go ahead and find me Five source mods that have been released that are both SP and MP.

Don't snap at Majestic, he's better at this than you are, and arguably will ever be. If you aren't going to listen to the advice of people who are more experienced than you, then you will be sure to fail.

If you KNOW that doing sp and mp is going to be ridiculously impossible, why are you still doing it? You don't need to put up all of your documentation, but you should put up enough to get people interested in the idea. The trick to promoting a mod is making people feel like it is more than an idea - and will actually be completed.

My advice - Spend a few years working on someone else's mod, learn programming or level design, and then make your idea. You can expect and hope people are going to be positive, but modding is pretty negative business. Thousands fail every year. Half-Life 2 has been out since November of 2004. How many mods do you think have been released for it in that almost four year timeframe? How many of them are actually worth playing? How many are ever really mentioned? Ten? Twenty? Fifty? Out of Thousands.

Best of luck, but years of experience and my own personal brand of pessimism says that this won't be happening.

Look I wont argue, but it is not as all complicated as you guys make it out to be, Hell i have a small team who are all just as confident as I am, and its coz im organised and i prooved it to them and thats how I convinced them, Ive got documentation from all aspects of modding and ive studied them, tutorials, tips, how to, mhen to, stuff ive researched and stuff ive got from people who actualy make games, all information regarding modding especialy documentation concerning modding for the source engine, and yes I know creating an SP and MP is a huge task but it aint impossible, and besides it also doesnt mean I'll be releasing both at the same time, infact im basicly going to release increments of content to use for the public to play and give feedback, then work on the rest of the project concerning what the public liked and disliked, and possibly what they would like to see... Im not just some amateur who wants to create a mod and know nothing of what its all about... So with someone who knows what its about dont tell me im gonna fail, Im not saying this is or will be the best mod ever, but no one will know unless people actualy discuss what it could be instead of pointing it out to be an imediate failure... thats all im saying, and I will release more details once we have a playable prototype to showcase the basic idea of the game and what we will be doing, coz atleast then we will be able to make promises knowing what we can do and cant do, stating all those promises now wont be wise therefore if you do want to know I'll let you know privately waht we try to achieve, if you are interested

 

[mollstam]

Look I won't argue, but it is not as complicated as you guys make it out to be. Hell i have a small team who are all just as confident as I am, and its because I'm organized and I proved it to them and that's how I convinced them. I've got documentation from all aspects of modding and I've studied them; tutorials, tips, how tos, stuff I've researched and stuff I've got from people who actually make games. All information regarding modding especially documentation concerning modding for the Source engine - and yes I know creating a SP and MP is a huge task but it isn't impossible, and besides it also doesn't mean I'll be releasing both at the same time. In fact, I'm basically going to release increments of content for the public to play and give feedback, then work on the rest of the project concerning what the public liked and disliked, and possibly what they would like to see.

I'm not just some amateur who wants to create a mod and know nothing of what it's all about. So with someone who knows what it's about don't tell me I'm going to fail, I'm not saying this is or will be the best mod ever, but no one will know unless people actually discuss what it could be instead of pointing it out to be an immediate failure.

That's all I'm saying, and I will release more details once we have a playable prototype to showcase the basic idea of the game and what we will be doing. Because at least then we will be able to make promises knowing what we can do and can't do, stating all those promises now won't be wise. Therefore if you do want to know I'll let you know privately what we try to achieve, if you are interested

Fixed, somewhat at least.. :/

 

[shea7993]

Fixed, somewhat at least.. :/

Yeah thanx... (not intendid to be sarcasm)

 

[Shinobi]

Look I wont argue, but it is not as all complicated as you guys make it out to be, Hell i have a small team who are all just as confident as I am, and its coz im organised and i prooved it to them and thats how I convinced them, Ive got documentation from all aspects of modding and ive studied them, tutorials, tips, how to, mhen to, stuff ive researched and stuff ive got from people who actualy make games, all information regarding modding especialy documentation concerning modding for the source engine, and yes I know creating an SP and MP is a huge task but it aint impossible, and besides it also doesnt mean I'll be releasing both at the same time, infact im basicly going to release increments of content to use for the public to play and give feedback, then work on the rest of the project concerning what the public liked and disliked, and possibly what they would like to see... Im not just some amateur who wants to create a mod and know nothing of what its all about... So with someone who knows what its about dont tell me im gonna fail, Im not saying this is or will be the best mod ever, but no one will know unless people actualy discuss what it could be instead of pointing it out to be an imediate failure... thats all im saying, and I will release more details once we have a playable prototype to showcase the basic idea of the game and what we will be doing, coz atleast then we will be able to make promises knowing what we can do and cant do, stating all those promises now wont be wise therefore if you do want to know I'll let you know privately waht we try to achieve, if you are interested

is this a joke?



and yes, it is as complicated as yorick has made it out to be. Reading a handful of tutorials and articles doesnt even begin to prepare you for the undertakings of a mod.

 

[shea7993]

is this a joke?

No joke as far as I am concerned... seems everyone think it is a joke tho... so much for community support, its more like community critics :|

 

[Shinobi]

They were just trying to give you fair warning, there was no need to be so rude. One important thing to get into with game development is to never take anything personally.







Look at it this way, would you rather have a scaled back vision that stands the chance of one day being released or a mess of half done art and code that invariably one day gets deprecated.

 

[63]

Im not just some amateur who wants to create a mod and know nothing of what its all about... So with someone who knows what its about dont tell me im gonna fail

Study this image closely.

You're going to fail.

 

[shea7993]

Yeah... You guys seem to speak from experiance, just coause you people failed doesnt mean we will, it seems pointless recruiting here, im out

 

[shea7993]

They were just trying to give you fair warning, there was no need to be so rude. One important thing to get into with game development is to never take anything personally.







Look at it this way, would you rather have a scaled back vision that stands the chance of one day being released or a mess of half done art and code that invariably one day gets deprecated.

I know what youre sayingm its not my intention to be rude, im just firmly standing up for what I believe in, and thats me and my crew, and our dream ok, Not here to create shit, just here to get support...

 

[63]

You're going to need more than dreams.

 

[Yorick]

Yeah... You guys seem to speak from experiance, just coause you people failed doesnt mean we will, it seems pointless recruiting here, im out

Actually, given that 90% of all mods fail for the same old reasons, it does mean that you'll fail. I've been doing this for 9 years and I'm just now on a project that isn't going to fail. The, I'm gonna go with dozens of mods I've been a part of have all failed for various reasons.

Read this.

And do come back after you fail so we can say "I told you so". It's so delicious that I have trouble eating for the rest of the day when that happens.

 

[shea7993]

Actually, given that 90% of all mods fail for the same old reasons, it does mean that you'll fail. I've been doing this for 9 years and I'm just now on a project that isn't going to fail. The, I'm gonna go with dozens of mods I've been a part of have all failed for various reasons.

Read this.

And do come back after you fail so we can say "I told you so". It's so delicious that I have trouble eating for the rest of the day when that happens.

Ok so i read, and besed on all the comments sounds like a promising well marketed mod that failed... have no idea what the cause was, but I know of 3 promising ways to fail and 6 other ways that could lead to failure, and for every one of those ten reasons I have an answer why we wont fail... Sooo, pointless but good idea, I'll be back after a few months, and I'll let you know on the status of the project... If I fail, you can tell me you told me so, but if I dont, then you praise me as your superior... hows that?

EDIT: 7 other ways not 6... typo

 

[Shinobi]

sounds good

 

[Yorick]

I'll be back after a few months, and I'll let you know on the status of the project... If I fail, you can tell me you told me so, but if I dont, then you praise me as your superior... hows that?

Works for me.

*Yorick suddenly realizes that he's never praised anyone as his superior before because he's almost never wrong - especially when it comes to modding.*

 

[shea7993]

Then its a done deal... Still I need a programmer I got a mapper yesterday, but another couldnt hurt... I still need recruits, anyone???

 

[63]

I'll do it.

 

[shea7993]

I'll do it.

You? what motive would you possibly have if you dont think dreams and passion for this is enough??? just curious you know, and are you implying programming or mapping?

 

[63]

Voice actor.

 

[Yorick]

what motive would you possibly have if you dont think dreams and passion for this is enough???

Dreams and passion aren't enough. SixThree, by the way, has Talent.

 

[shea7993]

Voice actor.

Eh voice acting... sorry there are 2 reasons to decline you on that, we have a group of actors that are maybe going to cover it, there is a local south african production movie also based on the angolan border war, they also just finished another film which will be apearing at the cannes, So as far as our research and information on everything based on that war goes, they going to supply us with all that they can, (actual authentic weapons, gear, outfits, logs and journals, you name it) especially some historic campeigns and memorable battles and events will be discussed with us to recreate them as near accurate as we can... So the cast acting in the films will probably be casting voices for us, and besides, I doubt you can speak afrikaans as english wont be very common, that is the other reason...

Anything else you can do??? Even if you cant do anything else, im sure you understand and know how to hunt for bugs? one can never have too many game testers, so I can still include you on pre-release production for the last 6 week of intense game testing to find any unwanted showstopper bugs before the release

 

[shea7993]

Dreams and passion aren't enough. SixThree, by the way, has Talent.

Well since their is no payment for modding, dreams and passion is the only motive for anyone to commit to something ("huge and time wasting" as you people percieve this) like this... I know it takes alot more, but that is where it begins, and that is the reason why myself and my current crew are doing this for, we love games, its our passion, and we all have that dream to be apart of making our own game, not what the publishers think we want to play, so yeah, were south africans, we love war and were abit bored of WW2, vietnam and modern warfare... plus south africa has a rep for racism, so killing the local blacks is good enough for us (praise farcry2) and note, that refering killing blacks we mean the locals, not others from around the world, we got nothing against them, their pretty much decent and civilised compared to our locals (if you lived here you would understand why, and hopefully we will be able to portray the reason in our game) anyways, point made passion and dreams go aloooong way in modding, and there are many sayings in modding, and one goes like this: "if you can dream it, you can make it"

and btw I never implied sixthree has no talent, everyone has a talent here im pretty sure of it, thats why I expected some support... I mean this is a community support site right?

 

[-Psy-]

So, erm, what makes your mod different compared to CoD and other war games apart from the setting?

 

[63]

Anything else you can do??? Even if you cant do anything else, im sure you understand and know how to hunt for bugs? one can never have too many game testers, so I can still include you on pre-release production for the last 6 week of intense game testing to find any unwanted showstopper bugs before the release

But QA is for beginners

 

[Yorick]

Shea do you know any Africans personally who might be interested in doing voice acting? My mod is at a stage where we're beginning to cast roles.

 

[63]

Me Yorick!!

 

[shea7993]

So, erm, what makes your mod different compared to CoD and other war games apart from the setting?

Not much realy, we dont exactly have something new and untested, since we are newbs to modding (yes yes, i can predict the word FAIL popping up soon again) we arent very sure as to what we can and cannot apply to the source engine that will be unique, it will be pretty much your average shooter like most games are, however the setting will be helping us to create a different experaince to that what most war games today offer, weve all experianced WW2, vietnam and modern warfare, and everything that goes with it, the history, the weapons, characters, events, locations, all of that, and were going to introduce to the world, (and re-introduce to locals that war since the black government is forcing us to forget about our "white" history, so we might even be banned in SA lol) what our wars were like, so you can basicly look forward to guerilla warfare being the main gameplay since the "boere" (pronounced "boo-rrrr-e" and translated to "farmers" in eng) did give birth to that style of warfare (and we are aware of other games that use guerilla warfare tactics which doesnt make our mod unique)...

So in terms of what we offer that is different to COD is simply nothing else besides a new experiance of war in south africa... And its good time to start this since farcry2 will be introducing the african setting, so it wont be that kind of "new" that will make us pray to god people will love the idea of war in africa, ubisoft will be doing that and we will be feeding from their success )

Ofcourse our mod wont be as cool as farcry2 tho, but its a start, so no new fancy game mechanics realy, what we want to do and achieve we know is possible because it has been done before over and over with great success, why fix something if it isnt broken? and if it is broken, and it works well, why fix it?

 

[shea7993]

Shea do you know any Africans personally who might be interested in doing voice acting? My mod is at a stage where we're beginning to cast roles.

Not personally no, the africans I know cant even speak english (the new government says english is an unnecesary languge for the blacks to learn bleh), and no they just think they can act, but aslong as they speak their language in our game, who will be able to tell how bad of actors they realy are?

But no sorry, why do you want africans if I may ask?

 

[mollstam]

Even a fall makes us wiser.

I hope you fail, because the lesson learned is so much greater.

Good luck and I look forward hearing from you.

 

[shea7993]

Even a fall makes us wiser.

I hope you fail, because the lesson learned is so much greater.

Good luck and I look forward hearing from you.

True, we all learn from our greatest mistakes, wont argue that, however I did manage to get hold of notes from developers and other modders how and why they failed (I now understand why games get delayed or cancelled), and I doubt fail would be the term to use, coz i'll get back up and persist to succeed, so generally im just expecting delays...

and im armed with notes how to avoid that, and if your thinking my game is going to suck totally even if I do get it out to the public, ive even thought that through and done necesary research on that, as a modder there is a quota: "release soon, release often" which means we just break up the game into small increments, and release them seperatly more often in terms of months than just one release after years, say, release a "demo" (which would be a polished and decent working version of our prototype, let the community play it, and send their feedback and critisism of what they like and dont like and what they would like to see (this feels like dejavu) and that makes it so much easier to work on the next increment and use that feedback to satisfy the players, and so we will do that releasing more and more content which in turn keeps our fanbase interested (aswell as the team members working on it) and maybe even grow and we get to perfect things untill we are completed, then re-release those increments in a full version with all the changes and addons we aplied through the production ending up with abit more of a better than average failing mod...

sooo... now you should see the idea of why im so confident, Im not just some "dude who wants make a game beter yours", infact I know there will be better, there always will be, but succeeding where many fail will be the greatest achievemnt ever... and that I did make my own game )

so please do hope I fail, coz when i succeed, I can rub it in your face... then shake hands with you and thank you for pushing me to prove you, and the rest of this community wrong

 

[shea7993]

some more content to look at from my modelers

 

[63]

From what you've described, I think you're better off just doing a CoD4 map pack with your theme.

 

[shea7993]

From what you've described, I think you're better off just doing a CoD4 map pack with your theme.

we could do a COD4 mod, but no, we the current crew have made our decision... source engine it is...

So yeah... I dont have anything to explain now, its already mentioned why we chose the source engine

 

[Shinobi]

well one thing to note : Source is probably the hardest engine to code for out of all the major engines out there