another big thumbs up for saudi arabia and "islamic" culture

[jverne]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...in_article_id=550569&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490

A woman was beaten up and shot dead by her father for talking online with a man she met on the website Facebook.

:thumbs:

 

[No Limit]

I guess every time some crazy christian bombs an abortion clinic I'll start a new thread with:

another big thumbs up for US and "Christian" culture.

This is pretty bad, but it has nothing to do with Islamic cluture, it has to do with "saudi" culture.

 

[Ravioli]

I guess every time some crazy christian bombs an abortion clinic I'll start a new thread with:

another big thumbs up for US and "Christian" culture.

This is pretty bad, but it has nothing to do with Islamic cluture, it has to do with "saudi" culture.

It is islamic, it was the fundamental and extreme beliefs in Islam that drives men like this to do such things. I dont understand why it is that whenever Islamic beliefs gets criticised there is always someone that jumps in and says "NO..Wait..uhh...it wasnt islam...no..it was....*makes something up*...yeah!!!". Down deep in the core you will find that it is the islamic religion that drives these weirdos, they are delusional.

 

[jverne]

I guess every time some crazy christian bombs an abortion clinic I'll start a new thread with:

another big thumbs up for US and "Christian" culture.

don't mind if you do.




saudi culture...hokay...then lets forget, iran, iraq, palestine, afganistan, philiphines, a huge chunk of africa, pakistan, UK

 

[No Limit]

It is islamic, it was the fundamental and extreme beliefs in Islam that drives men like this to do such things. I dont understand why it is that whenever Islamic beliefs gets criticised there is always someone that jumps in and says "NO..Wait..uhh...it wasnt islam...no..it was....*makes something up*...yeah!!!". Down deep in the core you will find that it is the islamic religion that drives these weirdos, they are delusional.

Men do shit like this in all parts of the world and religion. Rapists, murderers, and terrorists don't come in one shade of brown like these threads seem to imply they do.

Islam is the only religion where if someone does something idiotic in its name people apply it across the board to all muslims. When was the last time you saw something like this happen in the western world because of Islam?

jverne, when have you seen muslim men in the UK kill women because of something like that? If you can't name anything then lets remove UK from that list. If we remove the UK you figure out what all those countries have in common, outside of the fact that they are mostly muslim:

saudi culture...hokay...then lets forget, iran, iraq, palestine, afganistan, philiphines, a huge chunk of africa

If you need help answering that question pull up wikipedia and see what % of the population lives under the poverty line in each one of those countries. Then you tell me how you think that plays in to the fact that muslims in those countries are a lot more extreme than muslims in western civilization.

 

[Emporius]

I dont understand why it is that whenever Islamic beliefs gets criticised there is always someone that jumps in and says "NO..Wait..uhh...it wasnt islam...no..it was....*makes something up*...yeah!!!".

Because Saudi culture is of course made up.

There is a difference you know, for the same reasons that the actions of every American isn't driven by Christianity. I'm with No Limit on this one.

 

[The Monkey]

I guess every time some crazy christian bombs an abortion clinic I'll start a new thread with:

another big thumbs up for US and "Christian" culture.

This is pretty bad, but it has nothing to do with Islamic cluture, it has to do with "saudi" culture.

Christian fundamentalism isn't the topic here, No Limit.

If you need help answering that question pull up wikipedia and see what % of the population lives under the poverty line in each one of those countries. Then you tell me how you think that plays in to the fact that muslims in those countries are a lot more extreme than muslims in western civilization.

Countries in sub-Saharan Africa doesn't have this type of religious extremism, even though they are in many cases poorer that their islamic (or muslim, I fail to see what the difference is) counterparts. The truth is that in their present form, no other religion breeds fundamentalism the extend Islam does.

 

[Nemesis6]

Allah'u akbar - Takbir! Jazakallah khair!

I'm sorry, I was in the mood for some ummah.com-style posting. Anyway, congratulations to the religion of peace.

 

[Raziaar]

I guess every time some crazy christian bombs an abortion clinic I'll start a new thread with:

another big thumbs up for US and "Christian" culture.

Feel free to do so. Your posts won't be entirely frequent.

NOTE: I'm not saying that the topic at hand is entirely frequent either.

 

[Pesmerga]

Are these things really so common, though? I bet the people in Saudi Arabia gasp in awe when they read that a naked American threw his severed penis at the police. This whole "it's because they're Muslim" thing is a bit questionable, although I may be wrong.

 

[soulslicer]

Absolutely horrible, however like the others said, it could not have bee related with his extremist Muslim identity, maybe he was just a mentally insane person who committed this crime. He probably just wanted to get rid of his daughter for some other reasons

 

[phantomdesign]

I would say it's an isolated incident if stuff like this weren't so common. Even entire governments have promoted this type of behavior, punishing a female for getting raped or other strange things. No to be closed-minded, but these are hardly isolated incidents.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

rofl @ tags.

Anyway this is disgusting - maybe we should shoot the father.

Also, why the hell does everytime we have a discussion on Islam does someone bring up christian parrelels - we talk about christianity loads and nobody brings up islam then. So if the thread is about Islam STFU or contribute properly.

 

[Pesmerga]

Islam is a pretty cool guy. eh... oh twish.

What exactly are we supposed to talk about? I don't think anyone here thinks shooting someone for doing something innocent is good.

...at least I hope not :3

 

[kirovman]

Are these things really so common, though? I bet the people in Saudi Arabia gasp in awe when they read that a naked American threw his severed penis at the police. This whole "it's because they're Muslim" thing is a bit questionable, although I may be wrong.

I doubt that makes it into their highly censored news.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I really don't think its "islamic culture" anyway. South-east nations, north africa, etc. are all islam and don't do this kind of thing. Heck, Kuwait is islamic and you don't see this sort of thing.

 

[repiV]

LOL

Where did that tag come from? I haven't even posted in this thread!

Anyway, yes, we have plenty of honour killings, lobbyists for completely restructuring our education system purely to satisfy Muslims who can't tolerate secularism and other assorted bullshit associated with Islamic extremism over here.

But...of course, Islam is no better or worse than any other religion. What is that, some kind of legal phrase or something?

 

[highlander]

Wow. That's...insanely harsh. (no too anyone, the fact the girl got killed for that)

 

[Kula Meenur]

Jesus that's insane...then again, there would be less scene kids in WA if every dad did that... so i guess there are benifits with this schema

This needs Stern.

 

[Krynn72]

Islam is a pretty cool guy. eh... oh twish.

What exactly are we supposed to talk about? I don't think anyone here thinks shooting someone for doing something innocent is good.

...at least I hope not :3

Oh....


/walks away.

 

[jverne]

Men do shit like this in all parts of the world and religion. Rapists, murderers, and terrorists don't come in one shade of brown like these threads seem to imply they do.

Islam is the only religion where if someone does something idiotic in its name people apply it across the board to all muslims. When was the last time you saw something like this happen in the western world because of Islam?

jverne, when have you seen muslim men in the UK kill women because of something like that? If you can't name anything then lets remove UK from that list. If we remove the UK you figure out what all those countries have in common, outside of the fact that they are mostly muslim:



If you need help answering that question pull up wikipedia and see what % of the population lives under the poverty line in each one of those countries. Then you tell me how you think that plays in to the fact that muslims in those countries are a lot more extreme than muslims in western civilization.

i think you already got much answered, but let me ad my part.

first...i put UK for a purely comical value, why would i say UK is run by islamists? well at least not right now

when have you seen muslim men in the UK kill women because of something like that?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1164540.ece

If you need help answering that question pull up wikipedia and see what % of the population lives under the poverty line in each one of those countries. Then you tell me how you think that plays in to the fact that muslims in those countries are a lot more extreme than muslims in western civilization.

[/QUOTE]

saudi arabia income per capita
$21,200 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia


UK income per capita
US$37,328 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom


nah they're not that poor and besides the girl was using facebook, i guess if she was starving she'd probably not be chitchatting online, don't you think?




honor killings and punishments are not rare in the muslim world, like people said they are also supported by government officials.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/11/16/saudia17363.htm



it's a problem with their belief system not poverty.
a lot of people in south america are also poor but they don't treat women like that, at least not in general.
but i agree Christianity is also pretty crappy compared to modern beliefs, just (currently) not that much like islam.

 

[CptStern]

insane extremist does crazy extremist things in the name of religion ..............ok

 

[No Limit]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1164540.ece

Thanks for the great example, it proves what I am saying. The extremist dad grew up and lived most of his life in Iraq, not London. His daughter, who spent her life in the western world was a modern muslim who behaved like most other western girls, there was nothing extremist about her.

saudi arabia income per capita

I didn't ask about income per capita, I asked about what percentage lives under the poverty line. If the top 1% of a population make billions of dollars the income per capita will be quite high even if half of the country lives under the poverty line.

a lot of people in south america are also poor but they don't treat women like that, at least not in general.

In south america the leaders don't whore religion to get their people to do what they want. If you mix in a government that is based on religion with a population that mostly lives in poverty extremism will breed. It doesn't matter what religion is in play. The christian bible is just as violent as the Koran, why do you think Christians aren't as extreme?

I would love to see Islam wiped off this planet just like I would love to see this happen to any other religion. But I realize that won't happen for a long time, so that is no excuse for treating a certain people as second class citizens because some idiot with the similar beliefs does something stupid.

 

[nurizeko]

It might be Saudi culture, but ever since Islam was founded by ARABS from ARABIA its been Islamic culture.

 

[jverne]

Thanks for the great example, it proves what I am saying. The extremist dad grew up and lived most of his life in Iraq, not London. His daughter, who spent her life in the western world was a modern muslim who behaved like most other western girls, there was nothing extremist about her.


I didn't ask about income per capita, I asked about what percentage lives under the poverty line. If the top 1% of a population make billions of dollars the income per capita will be quite high even if half of the country lives under the poverty line.



In south america the leaders don't whore religion to get their people to do what they want. If you mix in a government that is based on religion with a population that mostly lives in poverty extremism will breed. It doesn't matter what religion is in play. The christian bible is just as violent as the Koran, why do you think Christians aren't as extreme?

I would love to see Islam wiped off this planet just like I would love to see this happen to any other religion. But I realize that won't happen for a long time, so that is no excuse for treating a certain people as second class citizens because some idiot with the similar beliefs does something stupid.

well there aren't exactly that many Muslim children in the UK having families, so what's left are the adults living there.
but i agree that living in a lest strict environment will decrease the chance of doing extreme stuff. but you have to ask yourself...who is the parent that is going to raise those kids up.


oh, sue me...at least i have some evidence that they are not that poor.


ok, Christianity can be violent i'm not denying that. but it's not so in our time.
as much as i find Christianity stupid, i have the feeling that its roots are more innocent than compared to islam. islam seems a very politically based religion, if you don't exactly know what i mean read some of the latest posts from hasan.
actually, if the leaders don't whore Christianity that much, it might mean it is not that easily whored, proving my hunches right.
but on the other hand we have the USA who is not ashamed of looking extremely stupid and backwards.

 

[repiV]

Thanks for the great example, it proves what I am saying. The extremist dad grew up and lived most of his life in Iraq, not London. His daughter, who spent her life in the western world was a modern muslim who behaved like most other western girls, there was nothing extremist about her.

The 7/7 bombers were all born and raised in the UK, and half of them were graduates with professional jobs. What's your point?

I didn't ask about income per capita, I asked about what percentage lives under the poverty line. If the top 1% of a population make billions of dollars the income per capita will be quite high even if half of the country lives under the poverty line.

40% of Londoners live under the poverty line - 55% if you don't include the suburbs. I would also describe the vast majority of people who live here as poor, whether they are "in poverty" or not. It is a city of extreme inequality, probably not too different from somewhere like Saudi in that respect.
Where are all the white yoof terrorists running around Westminster?

In south america the leaders don't whore religion to get their people to do what they want. If you mix in a government that is based on religion with a population that mostly lives in poverty extremism will breed. It doesn't matter what religion is in play. The christian bible is just as violent as the Koran, why do you think Christians aren't as extreme?

Firstly, because the Christian bible is NOT just as violent as the Koran. Secondly, because even "extremist" Christians usually don't take the bible literally, whereas even so-called moderate Muslims do.

I would love to see Islam wiped off this planet just like I would love to see this happen to any other religion. But I realize that won't happen for a long time, so that is no excuse for treating a certain people as second class citizens because some idiot with the similar beliefs does something stupid.

That's highly ironic. Noone is saying Muslims should be treated as second-class citizens, in fact a great deal of us are concerned that a large minority (40% in the UK) of Muslims would like to see the rest of us treated as second-class citizens under Sharia law.
Please, direct your ire at the correct targets. Even so-called "moderate" Muslims frequently hold our secular, liberal values in utter contempt.

 

[repiV]

than compared to islam. islam seems a very politically based religion, if you don't exactly know what i mean read some of the latest posts from hasan.

Indeed. Islam is the only major religion that mandates a theocratic method of governance, and which requires the law of Islam to be the law of the state. Comparisons with Christianity on this basis fall completely flat.
And hasan is the poster-child of the seemingly well-educated, well-to-do "moderate" Muslim whose attitudes could not be more in conflict with those we all cherish, whatever shade of the political spectrum you happen to occupy.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

You can't outright prove Islam had any direct correlation with his action, only conject.

--
In other news, Islam is the current heavyweight champion of the religious world. Lots of people doing silly/crazy/normal things.

 

[No Limit]

The 7/7 bombers were all born and raised in the UK, and half of them were graduates with professional jobs. What's your point?

My point is that nobody used the following as an example of "White culture":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article665194.ece

Two men linked to the British National party have been charged with possessing chemical explosives after raids on their homes in Lancashire. Robert Cottage, 49, of Colne, and David Jackson, a dentist, of Nelson, have been charged with possession of an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose. Both were remanded in custody.

It was the largest stockpile of weapons ever found in the UK. But again they are white, so it's not a big deal.

40% of Londoners live under the poverty line - 55% if you don't include the suburbs. I would also describe the vast majority of people who live here as poor, whether they are "in poverty" or not. It is a city of extreme inequality, probably not too different from somewhere like Saudi in that respect.

A poverty line is different for each country. You can't possibly compare british poverty, where these people still have access to basic health care, food, and housing to the poverty in africa where half the people of that country are dying of aids. How many times do we have to have this discussion?

Where are all the white yoof terrorists running around Westminster?

I just posted one link above, would you like me to post more? Other than the 7/7 example where are all those muslim terrorists in your country? Oh, that's right, you can only point to that one 7/7 example where about 50 people died.

Firstly, because the Christian bible is NOT just as violent as the Koran. Secondly, because even "extremist" Christians usually don't take the bible literally, whereas even so-called moderate Muslims do.

You can't be serious. Have you ever actually read the bible? Which so-called moderate muslims are you talking about? As I said many times, my best friends father is an Iranian born muslim, I never even seen the Quran in his house. One the other hand have you actually ever talked to a young earth creationsist? These people take the bible literally word for word, if you haven't talked to one of them yet do yourself a favor and find one to talk to, it will shock you.

That's highly ironic. Noone is saying Muslims should be treated as second-class citizens, in fact a great deal of us are concerned that a large minority (40% in the UK) of Muslims would like to see the rest of us treated as second-class citizens under Sharia law.
Please, direct your ire at the correct targets. Even so-called "moderate" Muslims frequently hold our secular, liberal values in utter contempt.

You don't want to treat muslims as second class citizens? Aren't you against putting up more mosques. Aren't you against immigration from muslim countries? Didn't you say that any muslim believing in sharia law should be thrown out of your country?

 

[No Limit]

Indeed. Islam is the only major religion that mandates a theocratic method of governance, and which requires the law of Islam to be the law of the state. Comparisons with Christianity on this basis fall completely flat.
And hasan is the poster-child of the seemingly well-educated, well-to-do "moderate" Muslim whose attitudes could not be more in conflict with those we all cherish, whatever shade of the political spectrum you happen to occupy.

I've heard christians that said much worse than hasan did.

As I said above, you need to talk to some young earth creationists. For some information this is what they believe:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

 

[repiV]

My point is that nobody used the following as an example of "White culture":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article665194.ece

Why would they? It's not an endemic problem, in fact it's barely even an issue at all. It has nothing to do with "white culture".

It was the largest stockpile of weapons ever found in the UK. But again they are white, so it's not a big deal.

No, it simply has nothing to do with them being white. And Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with brownness, either. It's got nothing to do with race, it's about ideology.

A poverty line is different for each country. You can't possibly compare british poverty, where these people still have access to basic health care, food, and housing to the poverty in africa where half the people of that country are dying of aids. How many times do we have to have this discussion?

Actually lots of people in London don't have access to basic health care, food or housing. We have more homeless people than in the rest of the country combined.
Also, you're contradicting yourself because sub-Saharan Africa where "half the people" are dying of aids is not a hotbed of Islamic terrorism. And it's got nothing to do with secularism either - generally speaking, the religions are either primitive and tribal or a kind of zealous, blind Christianity I have only ever encountered in African immigrants.
Furthermore, Arab countries are actually quite rich compared to the really poor parts of the world. They generally have a developed infrastructure, education, a legal system etc. - it's not a case of the country being undeveloped, it's a case of that development being archaic, backwards and twisted by Islam. So the socio-economic argument really doesn't cut it either.
Islam is an insular, regressive, dangerous force that has managed to systematically destroy civilisation wherever it has spread, how anyone can continue to deny this is beyond me.

I just posted one link above, would you like me to post more? Other than the 7/7 example where are all those muslim terrorists in your country? Oh, that's right, you can only point to that one 7/7 example where about 50 people died.

How much attention do you think the intelligence services spend on Islamic terrorism, compared with other terrorism? I can tell you for a fact that MI5 has almost doubled its manpower and restructured massively in recent years to deal with that specific threat.
And, as I've said, it's not just about overt violence. 40% of British Muslims want Sharia law in the UK. Doesn't that mean anything to you at all?
To put that in perspective, probably significantly less than 1% of US Christians would be in favour of a theocratic state (which doesn't exist anywhere in the world outside of the Vatican anyway), and American Christians are a world apart from Christians anywhere else in the West.
Not to mention, that much as we like to believe it is so, it's not all about numbers either. Society is not shaped by the will of the majority, it's outspoken single-issue fanatics that have all the power. I daresay the only reason I can go out and buy a 200mph motorbike for 9 grand is because bikers put up a fight - other minority groups get their rights taken away due to their passivity.
Minority groups don't get any more vicious, more vocal, more threatening or more numerous than Islamists.

You can't be serious. Have you ever actually read the bible? Which so-called moderate muslims are you talking about? As I said many times, my best friends father is an Iranian born muslim, I never even seen the Quran in his house. One the other hand have you actually ever talked to a young earth creationsist? These people take the bible literally word for word, if you haven't talked to one of them yet do yourself a favor and find one to talk to, it will shock you.

Yes, I have read the Bible. The Koran is far more violent and radical, and also far less open to interpretation.
I have indeed spoken to such people before, but they are extremely rare and don't pose any realistic threat. They are to be mocked, the Islamists are to be countered.

You don't want to treat muslims as second class citizens? Aren't you against putting up more mosques. Aren't you against immigration from muslim countries? Didn't you say that any muslim believing in sharia law should be thrown out of your country?

How is any of that treating Muslims as second-class citizens? Hell, a great deal of Muslims themselves oppose this influx of huge mosques everywhere.
A country has the right to set whatever immigration rules it desires, and they are always based on the interests of the country, not of the immigrant. Potential immigrants don't have any rights, no matter where they're from.
I don't believe I ever said a Muslim believing in Sharia law should be thrown out of the country, but only an idiot wouldn't take seriously the threat of two million Muslims, many of them aggressive and militant, wanting to turn Britain into a theocracy. You don't suggest any solutions at all - you ignore that a problem even exists.

I've heard christians that said much worse than hasan did.

As I said above, you need to talk to some young earth creationists. For some information this is what they believe:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

Yes, but hasan represents your ordinary "middle-class" Muslim. That's the difference.

 

[No Limit]

ok, so a party built on racism which also got 1% of the popular vote in your last election isn't an issue for you and is by no means an example of "white culture". This is the same party that has attacked your country on more than one occasion using terrorism. On the other hand one single isolated example of muslims blowing shit up in your country is an issue and a clear example of the evils of "islamic culture". Do you honestly not see the hypocracy in that? You're not a BNP member, are you?

The 40% figure is alarming, as I already told you 1,000 times in the other threads each time this is bought up. But where are the polls that asked this same question of christians? You say it would be less than 1%, but you have nothing to back that up. So again, why is this same poll not done on christians? Young earth creationists are not a rare breed, I have no clue why you would think they are. I ran in to 3 of them on a small web hosting message board the other day, this is a message board that has maybe 20 regular posters at most. Most christians that attend church at least weekly that I have talked to all believe the bible to be literal. I mentioned the article Stern posted about the little girl dying because her christian parents refused to get her treatment, you know what this guy's reply to me was? "Stay out of my family, there is a higher authority than government".

This has nothing to do with Islam being more violant than any other religion, this has to do with your prejudice brought on by the fear mongering media in your country. I used to think that the British were to be held to a much higher standard than americans intellectually. But as soon as 3 idiots blow a few buses up you freaked out in the same idiotic way americans did after 9/11.

Hasan represents your typical person blinded by religion. He is a perfect example of why christians are exactly the same as muslims. No amount of logic could change their ****ed up views. But just because they hold those ****ed up views doesn't mean most of them will go on a killing spree, obviously a few always will.

Edit: On the poverty issue I'll just let this go. If you honestly think poverty in your country is comparable to poverty in 3rd world countries there really is no sense in having this discussion with you.

 

[Emporius]

Yes, I have read the Bible. The Koran is far more violent and radical, and also far less open to interpretation.

And it is this openess to interpretation that makes christianity so dangerous. Many muslims have been raised on this middle level religion that not only adheres to actual guidlines, but the respectable rules of such are evident in their culture and government. Yes this means it can be strict and in some cases dangerous, but it is also clear.

Christianity on the other hand allows for near infinite interpretation, which is why we get the fanatical bible-thumpers waving a peace flag with jesus on it in one hand while slashing about with a bloody knife in the other.

 

[repiV]

ok, so a party built on racism which also got 1% of the popular vote in your last election isn't an issue for you and is by no means an example of "white culture". This is the same party that has attacked your country on more than one occasion using terrorism. On the other hand one single isolated example of muslims blowing shit up in your country is an issue and a clear example of the evils of "islamic culture". Do you honestly not see the hypocracy in that? You're not a BNP member, are you?

Hardly comparable. They didn't get 1% of the popular vote because of racism, they got 1% of the popular vote because of absolute exasperation with the awful government we have and the limp-wristed opposition parties who don't address any of the real issues. As I'm sure you know, the populace only takes so much of the government not listening to them before there's a backlash.
The BNP offer a solution. It may not be a good solution, but that's besides the point - they actually go out there and tackle the issues that other parties sweep under the carpet. That's the only reason they get votes.
And also, their campaign and stated policy is nowhere near as racist as people make out. While they may BE racist, they are not openly so.
And I can tell you right now that - rightly or wrongly - there are plenty of ordinary people out there who support the BNP. And no, I'm not one of them.

The 40% figure is alarming, as I already told you 1,000 times in the other threads each time this is bought up. But where are the polls that asked this same question of christians? You say it would be less than 1%, but you have nothing to back that up.

No, I don't, but it's a reasonable expectation. And if you admit that the figure is alarming, then why are you making such a big deal over this whole issue? Why do you have to bring up Christianity in every goddamn thread Islam is discussed in?
You know, whatever you say about how you see all religions equally, you telegraph your true feelings by constantly bringing up Christianity at inappropriate moments.

So again, why is this same poll not done on christians?

Probably because there is no Christian equivalent of Sharia law and not a single Christian theocracy exists in the entire world?
On the flipside, the vast majority of Islamic countries are theocracies. Obvious, no?

Young earth creationists are not a rare breed, I have no clue why you would think they are. I ran in to 3 of them on a small web hosting message board the other day, this is a message board that has maybe 20 regular posters at most. Most christians that attend church at least weekly that I have talked to all believe the bible to be literal. I mentioned the article Stern posted about the little girl dying because her christian parents refused to get her treatment, you know what this guy's reply to me was? "Stay out of my family, there is a higher authority than government".

They are a very rare breed in Europe. Like I've told you before, you take your limited experience of Christianity in the more regressive parts of the USA and generalise it across the entire world. That's just ridiculous.
66% of the UK are officially atheists. You can guarantee that the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians don't really give a shit about it and don't go to church either. The only people I've met (and that's like, three) who take the bible literally are Africans or people with African parents - and they were more like horses than vicious lions. Friendly, dumb and harmless.
Islam is now the dominant religious force in the UK.

This has nothing to do with Islam being more violant than any other religion, this has to do with your prejudice brought on by the fear mongering media in your country. I used to think that the British were to be held to a much higher standard than americans intellectually. But as soon as 3 idiots blow a few buses up you freaked out in the same idiotic way americans did after 9/11.

Oh please. At least say something that has a basis in reality instead of accusing me of "prejudice brought on by fear mongering". If you can't get your head round the real issues, that's your problem, not mine.

Hasan represents your typical person blinded by religion. He is a perfect example of why christians are exactly the same as muslims. No amount of logic could change their ****ed up views. But just because they hold those ****ed up views doesn't mean most of them will go on a killing spree, obviously a few always will.

He is more militant in his views and no doubt alienates himself from the general population to a far greater extent than the vast majority of people who are "blinded by religion".

Edit: On the poverty issue I'll just let this go. If you honestly think poverty in your country is comparable to poverty in 3rd world countries there really is no sense in having this discussion with you.

You mean you'll let it go because your argument is totally inconsistent and not borne out by the facts.

 

[repiV]

And it is this openess to interpretation that makes christianity so dangerous. Many muslims have been raised on this middle level religion that not only adheres to actual guidlines, but the respectable rules of such are evident in their culture and government. Yes this means it can be strict and in some cases dangerous, but it is also clear.

Christianity on the other hand allows for near infinite interpretation, which is why we get the fanatical bible-thumpers waving a peace flag with jesus on it in one hand while slashing about with a bloody knife in the other.

While I accept what you're saying about Christianity being open to extremist interpretations, the ONLY interpretation of Islam that can be justified by the Koran is extremist. It makes explicit and direct demands for theocratic government, the slaughter of infidels, worldwide conquest in the name of Islam, subhuman treatment of women and non-Muslims...the list goes on.

 

[Eejit]

Islam is such a male chauvinistic religion. It gets extra minus point from me for that.

The only people I've met (and that's like, three) who take the bible literally are Africans or people with African parents - and they were more like horses than vicious lions. Friendly, dumb and harmless.

Best quote of the thread. Though perhaps donkeys would be a more appropriate comparison, horses can be fairly dangerous.

 

[No Limit]

The BNP offers solutions? Look, I am not going to sit here and pretend that I know everything about your country's politics just like you shouldn't pretend you know everything about mine. But this is a party built around racism and violance. you can give excuses for the fact that 1% of your population, 5 million people, voted for a group of extremist racist idiots just like I can give excuses for why 40% of muslims in the UK believe in Sharia law. The difference is that I can recognize that in both cases this is a problem, while you point your finger at a perticular group and then look the other way when another group does exactly the same thing.

Extremism exists in the white culture, in the black culture, in the islamic culture, in the christian culture, and in every other large culture in the world. What people like you and Pat Condell and others do is single out one of these groups and blame them for all your woes. It is racist, and it is idiotic. Again, you have 1 example of a muslim group blowing something up in your country while I can point to a bunch of different examples of white racists, pissed off christians and or catholics, and other extremist groups doing this for decades in your country. Yet you will sit here with a streight face telling me that islam is the most dangerous threat your country is facing.

They are a very rare breed in Europe

You are in here acting like I never lived in Europe. I was born in Poland. As I already told you over and over and over again I went to a public school in Poland, that public school was a catholic school. I know many relatives in Poland that take the bible quite literally while others don't really pay much attention to it. I will not comment on Christianity in London, but I recall someone from the UK proving you wrong about this claim, he pointed out how christian fundamentalists are all over your country in the non-urban areas.

He is more militant in his views and no doubt alienates himself from the general population to a far greater extent than the vast majority of people who are "blinded by religion".

His militant views? What the hell are you talking about? Did I miss a post where he said he wanted to kill someone? Or are you making shit up based on your prejudice of muslims?

You mean you'll let it go because your argument is totally inconsistent and not borne out by the facts.

No, I mean exactly what I said. There is absolutely no point in trying to argue with someone about poverty when they think poverty in the UK is just as bad as it is in 3rd world countries around africa. A person like that can not be reasoned with, kind of like your average young earth creationist, or your extremist muslim can not be reasoned with. So I won't even waste my time and to be perfectly honest I am sort of disgusted by your views in regards to this. If you feel you need to comment on this further you need to show me how many people in your country die from dehydration, starvation, aids, and lack of basic health care each year for me or anyone else here to take your claims seriously.

 

[repiV]

Best quote of the thread. Though perhaps donkeys would be a more appropriate comparison, horses can be fairly dangerous.

Well, true. But horses, like convent girls, can be fun to ride on occassion. You ever heard of a stud on a donkey? :naughty:

Tags
africans = horses, darkies ate repiv puppy, lolol mock repiv, repiv hates darkies, repiv: darkies = animals, those zany muslims

Holy shit that's hilarious. How the hell does this stuff get calculated?

 

[CptStern]

it doesnt, it's put there by members


/whistles


/runs

 

[repiV]

The BNP offers solutions? Look, I am not going to sit here and pretend that I know everything about your country's politics just like you shouldn't pretend you know everything about mine. But this is a party built around racism and violance.

No, it isn't. Officially. You give voters far too much credit.
To give you some idea of how much this government listens to anyone in this country, they came up with this idea to have e-petitions on the Downing Street website to show how "democratic" they are. In reality, the only purpose it EVER serves is as a propaganda tool for the government. Everyone who puts down their name in support of the petition is emailed with the government's response - and the petition creator has no right of reply to challenge the government's lies and deceit. And that sums up Labour's attitude completely - all shallow PR exercises, no leadership or respect.
Nearly two million people signed the e-petition against national road pricing, and the government response basically boiled down to "**** you, we know best, we're doing what we want anyway".
Current UK government is the complete anti-thesis of democracy and fairness. They trample over everyone without a care in order to support their minority interests and the single-issue fanatics who lobby them.
Now along comes the BNP, who claim to offer decisive action on all the issues that are causing resentment amongst the general population - uncontrolled immigration, political correctness, the EU, bullying of the motorist, the abysmal state of our education systems and the twisted priorities of our police force...etc. If you care to actually take a look at the BNP's policy statement, you'll find that it's eminently reasonable.
They are in fact one of numerous minor political parties to capitalise on a complete loss of trust in mainstream politics, they are simply the most prolific. While they might have been founded on a platform of shameless racism, that is not the message they put forward today - and people are short-sighted enough to believe them.
So you see, people don't vote for the BNP because they're racist and violent. They vote for the BNP because the BNP has tapped into popular sentiment. I'm not disagreeing with you that they are evil nazis, but that's not the point - most of the people who vote for them don't realise that. If you want to blame someone, blame Labour for the utter contempt for the electorate over this last decade and the opposition parties for being no better.
If we had a competent government which respected the people who put them in power in the first place, nobody would feel the need to vote for the BNP.

you can give excuses for the fact that 1% of your population, 5 million people, voted for a group of extremist racist idiots just like I can give excuses for why 40% of muslims in the UK believe in Sharia law. The difference is that I can recognize that in both cases this is a problem, while you point your finger at a perticular group and then look the other way when another group does exactly the same thing.

I point my finger at real problems. You're just inventing problems because some subconscious part of you is fundamentally insecure about singling out Islam for criticism, whether it's deserved or not.

Extremism exists in the white culture, in the black culture, in the islamic culture, in the christian culture, and in every other large culture in the world. What people like you and Pat Condell and others do is single out one of these groups and blame them for all your woes. It is racist, and it is idiotic. Again, you have 1 example of a muslim group blowing something up in your country while I can point to a bunch of different examples of white racists, pissed off christians and or catholics, and other extremist groups doing this for decades in your country. Yet you will sit here with a streight face telling me that islam is the most dangerous threat your country is facing.

If you're referring to the IRA, they ceased to be a threat decades ago. And they never posed the kind of ultimate, life-or-death, all-or-nothing threat that Islam does. It's a whole different ballgame.
It's not a case of me singling out any one group and blaming them for all of anything, I'm singling out the groups responsible for certain things. You're manufacturing threats where none exist, purely to make yourself feel better.

You are in here acting like I never lived in Europe. I was born in Poland. As I already told you over and over and over again I went to a public school in Poland, that public school was a catholic school. I know many relatives in Poland that take the bible quite literally while others don't really pay much attention to it. I will not comment on Christianity in London, but I recall someone from the UK proving you wrong about this claim, he pointed out how christian fundamentalists are all over your country in the non-urban areas.

This is absurd. I don't even know how you can sit there and say with a straight face that every man and his dog poses equally as much threat to the UK as Islam does.

His militant views? What the hell are you talking about? Did I miss a post where he said he wanted to kill someone? Or are you making shit up based on your prejudice of muslims?

You can bet he'd be at all the pro-Islam, anti-secularism marches waving militant signs.

No, I mean exactly what I said. There is absolutely no point in trying to argue with someone about poverty when they think poverty in the UK is just as bad as it is in 3rd world countries around africa. A person like that can not be reasoned with, kind of like your average young earth creationist, or your extremist muslim can not be reasoned with. So I won't even waste my time and to be perfectly honest I am sort of disgusted by your views in regards to this. If you feel you need to comment on this further you need to show me how many people in your country die from dehydration, starvation, aids, and lack of basic health care each year for me or anyone else here to take your claims seriously.

You miss one crucial point. I never said that poverty in the UK is just as bad as in third world countries in Africa, in fact the vast majority of my post on that issue drew a comparison between sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East. Would you mind actually reading what I post before spouting a bunch of drivel about things I never said?
If it's all about poverty, then how the hell do you explain why we don't have a problem with Christian terrorism and extremism, given that many if not most of the absolute poorest countries in the world hold evangelical Christian beliefs?
The common denominator is Islam. Nothing else.