Another Raising The Bar Scandal?

[Mr. Redundant]

You mean they cut out the part where they exposed who was on the grassy knoll?

you see what happens when we have to wait so long for a quality game?!?

 

[SoSorry]

Have fun being paranoid, then. Seriously. I don't buy your theories. Had Hodgeson written something Valve didn't want printed, they would have just edited it out (Quick and easy to do) rather than rewrite the entire book (Takes longer and is more expensive). And if that entire piece of work was stuff they didn't want printed (If even that much stuff exists) then the book would have been axed a LONG time ago.
Sincerely,
Jeremy Dunn

Why was Gili the movie released? Why did Valve wait t'il 2 days before release before telling everyone the game was delayed? , Why did Valve wait so long to get user feedback on the book? , Why is Doug Lomabardi giving ambiguous answers about an instruction manual?

You mean they cut out the part where they exposed who was on the grassy knoll?

The question is not who was on the grassy knoll, but what? By the way where is Hodgeson and why has he been silenced?

 

[ukfluke]

hey cliffe, change the models stance & animations in cs:s back to 1.6 style. kthx :X

 

[iamaelephant]

SoSorry stop spamming that damn laughing smiley.

 

[SoSorry]

SoSorry stop spamming that damn laughing smiley.

What smiley?

 

[iamaelephant]

What was in the book about the release date issue, was this: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46956 And you don't have to pay for this one.

so basically Valve is never going to tell us why we were blatantly lied to last year regarding the September 30th release date? Aight.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

That is a bit suspect. This a leaked image that was cut from Raising the Bar.

 

[joule]

That is a bit suspect. This a leaked image that was cut from Raising the Bar.

 

[epmode]

so basically Valve is never going to tell us why we were blatantly lied to last year regarding the September 30th release date? Aight.

guess what. you'll get that very same information in gamespot's in-depth article that's going to go live when the game launches. for free, even.

i'm 99% sure gamespot mentioned that valve directly addresses the issue in the article, so it's not all hearsay.

edit:

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Why was Gili the movie released? Why did Valve wait t'il 2 days before release before telling everyone the game was delayed? , Why did Valve wait so long to get user feedback on the book? , Why is Doug Lomabardi giving ambiguous answers about an instruction manual?

-Because people thought Ben Affleck and J-Lo would bring in money and they had already made the film: might as well bring in as much cash as possible. Irrelevent however.

-Actually, it was closer to eight days before September 30th, and it was because they were stupid.

-What, you mean other than the interview that Hodgson did a month or two ago. And did you ignore when Cliffe said that most of the rewriting was in response to user feedback?

-Why do you think he's being ambiguous? He said there was no physical manual for the retail version, so there will be no PDF of said physical manual, which was the question asked of him.

The question is not who was on the grassy knoll, but what? By the way where is Hodgeson and why has he been silenced?

Okay, seriously, quit being dumb. Cliffe already answered where Hodgeson went during the rewrite; he was still working on the book. And silenced? How can you silence someone who hardly ever talked to the fan community?

You are a silly, silly guy. You know that?

Sincerely,
Jeremy Dunn

 

[Sparta]

so basically Valve is never going to tell us why we were blatantly lied to last year regarding the September 30th release date? Aight.

I thought they said Gamespot would have information like that on their "Final Hour" articles and what not

 

[SFLUFAN]

That is correct Sparta. Valve and David decided that was the proper forum for discussing those issues - not "Raising the Bar".

 

[jimbones]

teckblade, you must obviously lack a brain.....
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Reply With Quote

groovy, you must obviously lack a selfesteem...

 

[omni]

so basically Valve is never going to tell us why we were blatantly lied to last year regarding the September 30th release date? Aight.

They've already told us, there've been several interviews where they say that they were "too aggressive" with the September 30th date.

One of these interviews is from Gamespy, filename: hl2_douglombardi_e32004.mov

 

[iamaelephant]

They weren't "too aggressive" with the date, it was a flat out lie. That's all there is to it.

 

[koncept]

ok... how many vampire movies and games are out there with different ways to kill vampires? garlic doesn't work, or it does etc. etc.

theres too much shit now days it's almost nearly impossible to get somethin mixed with somethin. if you think about it. its inspiration.

 

[Feath]

They weren't "too aggressive" with the date, it was a flat out lie. That's all there is to it.

Why would they lie about it? They set a date, but didn't manage to meet it. Nearly every developer does it but because Valve did it they are somehow "liars"?

 

[iamaelephant]

Because Valve were still touting their 30/9/03 date with only a week until the supposed release, when they must have known that the game didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making the date. They lied, plain and simple.

 

[omni]

Because Valve were still touting their 30/9/03 date with only a week until the supposed release, when they must have known that the game didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making the date. They lied, plain and simple.

Seems like you have more of an anti-Valve agenda than simply accepting their explanation of the delay. Maybe next time, you should just keep your pessimism to yourself?

Now, back to Raising the Bar, primagames.com has posted a sneak peek at the contents of the book, due sometime in November:

http://www.primagames.com/strategy/book/inside/6534/

Must be extra painful losing a leg to a Bullsquid.

 

[redrain85]

Ah, something else new to look at. Tasty. A teeny bit spoilerish, though. :hmph:

EDIT: While we're at it, Prima Games has also posted a preview of the Strategy Guide!

http://www.primagames.com/strategy/book/inside/6532/

Needless to say, this is SPOILER MATERIAL!

 

[Logic]

Get off your high horse about being "blatantly lied to", iamaelephant. People have explained to you many times, in many threads, why that sentiment is based on a truckload of assumptions, and a really bad attitude. Get over it. Yes, the game missed it's original schedule. These things happen, that's life. If you honestly believe Valve maliciously lied to you, don't support them, don't buy the game. Otherwise, just enjoy it when it comes out, and be grateful that so much effort has gone into making the game as good as it is.

 

[iamaelephant]

I didn't buy the game. I have an ATi voucher.

 

[Feath]

Because Valve were still touting their 30/9/03 date with only a week until the supposed release, when they must have known that the game didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making the date. They lied, plain and simple.

You do realise that Valve didn't just keep on saying "It's not delayed" until the 23rd don't you? The last time they said it wasn't delayed was at ECTS in August, after that they didn't say anything until the 23rd. I agree that they should've announced it sooner but saying that they kept saying that the game was on track is just blantently wrong.

 

[X-Vector]

You do realise that Valve didn't just keep on saying "It's not delayed" until the 23rd don't you? The last time they said it wasn't delayed was at ECTS in August, after that they didn't say anything until the 23rd.

Now that's just funny.

Imagine I invite you to the biggest party ever on December 15th.
Of course there's still lots of preparation work to do and there's always a chance things won't work out as planned, but do you expect me to give you a call every week to confirm the date?
You don't because the date stands until instructed otherwise.

Now, imagine your dismay if I postpone the party to an indefinite date a couple of hours before it's supposed to take off.
Imagine that in fact preparations for the party won't be completed until two months later.
You're perfectly right in being pissed off, because naturally I have known that I wouldn't be able to make December 15th for some time and I have deprived you of that information for mysterious and probably very selfish reasons.

In essence, by not informing you of the inevitability of the delay until the last possible moment before getting caught with my pants down, I have told you a lie.

 

[Brian Damage]

I wonder if they thought they could get it done by the 30th, then they realised a little before that they were going to miss the date by a few weeks (And I imagine that miscalculating a few weeks is not a hard thing to do when you've been working on a game for five years), then they looked at the game after the 30th, and just said to them selves "It's not good enough.", so they decided to delay it until they were happy?

Hence the marked visual improvements during the delay, and any other stuff we may learn of after the release.

My .000000002c...

Seems like you have more of an anti-Valve agenda than simply accepting their explanation of the delay. Maybe next time, you should just keep your pessimism to yourself?

Now, back to Raising the Bar, primagames.com has posted a sneak peek at the contents of the book, due sometime in November:

http://www.primagames.com/strategy/book/inside/6534/

Must be extra painful losing a leg to a Bullsquid.

Look down below. They deemed that Anry guy's fan painting good enough to get into the book.

 

[X-Vector]

What marked visual improvements?

If anything, I'd say the looks of the game have stayed remarkably similar over an 18 month period.

 

[Absinthe]

What marked visual improvements?

If anything, I'd say the looks of the game have stayed remarkably similar over an 18 month period.

I guess you were blind to the normal-mapping that was implemented.

 

[Feath]

Now that's just funny.

Imagine I invite you to the biggest party ever on December 15th.
Of course there's still lots of preparation work to do and there's always a chance things won't work out as planned, but do you expect me to give you a call every week to confirm the date?
You don't because the date stands until instructed otherwise.

Now, imagine your dismay if I postpone the party to an indefinite date a couple of hours before it's supposed to take off.
Imagine that in fact preparations for the party won't be completed until two months later.
You're perfectly right in being pissed off, because naturally I have known that I wouldn't be able to make December 15th for some time and I have deprived you of that information for mysterious and probably very selfish reasons.

In essence, by not informing you of the inevitability of the delay until the last possible moment before getting caught with my pants down, I have told you a lie.

I'm still saying that they should've said so earlier. I'm just saying that people who claim that Valve were repeating the 30th date until it was delayed are wrong. They didn't do that.

Valve haven't done anything different to any other developer, except for announce the delay a bit late. A lot of other games get delayed.

Nobody has adequately been able to explain to me why Valve would actually lie about the game being delayed.

 

[Brian Damage]

Take a look at last year's videos and pictures (fairly cool), and then compare them to the 2004 binks (wicked) and the latest magazine screenshots (awesome). Definate improvement.

 

[Logic]

The "biggest party ever" argument isn't valid at all.. the projected release date was not a date on which we would be required to do anything, or go anywhere. It's not like a planned trip, or an appointment. It's simply the moment when something becomes AVAILABLE, after which you purchase it at your own leisure. The date didn't obligate anyone to anything, therefore Valve should be allowed to change it, and announce that change, whenever they decide to, for whatever reasons they have.

 

[X-Vector]

I guess you were blind to the normal-mapping that was implemented.

I don't care about the techniques in use, I care about the end result.
When I compare the 2003 E3 movies to the 2004 ones, for example, I don't exactly see a world of difference.
For what it's worth, there's evidence of bumpmapping in the early screenshot/movie footage.

Not that this is necessarily the right focus though, Valve could have changed the game dramatically without this showing much in the visuals.
However, I have seen no evidence to support such a theory and, most tellingly, Valve have to my knowledge not brought this up as an excuse for the delay of the game as they have done so in the past with Half-Life.

 

[subtlesnake]

The difference is clear when you compare the character models. So at least some of the art has been updated.

 

[Absinthe]

Of course there isn't a world of difference. They're not going to scrap their engine and make a new one just because things aren't as neat and shiny as they were a year ago. But for what it's worth, I see a difference in the visuals, even if they aren't huge.

I don't believe that the improved visuals were part of an excuse for the delay. They were just things they implemented in order to stay more current.

 

[X-Vector]

The "biggest party ever" argument isn't valid at all.. the projected release date was not a date on which we would be required to do anything, or go anywhere.

It was a date on which we would be required to purchase the game (in my case this means going somewhere), install it, play it and have lots of fun.
Not too dissimilar to the biggest party ever where, depending on the 'rules', you could arguably feel compelled to acquire some sharp clothing or a costume, dress up smartly, 'play' a belle or beau of your choosing and have lots of fun.

As for Valve having the right to announce a delay whenever they please, you're quite correct about that.
They have the right to do so, just as I and others have the right to question such behaviour and perceive it as not very ethical.

 

[jheaddon]

I'd go with others and say it was kind of a HL1 end of development thing, where they thought what they had produced would be great and make the deadline.

But from feedback realised it wasn't as good as it could be (guessing sending RC's to Vivendi or something like playtesting) so decided to delay.

If this is true then i couldn't really care if it's late, the improvements from HL1 to HL1 (revision) were enourmous, and if its the case then Hl2 will be much better than it "would" have been if it was released say date.

 

[X-Vector]

Of course there isn't a world of difference.
I don't believe that the improved visuals were part of an excuse for the delay. They were just things they implemented in order to stay more current.

I've always liked the overall visual design of HL2 and the decision not to go the unified lighting route (or however you would call it) of a DooM 3 or Riddick, but I'm still puzzled why Valve didn't correct the 'square box with simple, flat texture' look of much of the building exteriors.

That and the rather sharp transition from high detail textures in the near field to a distinct fuzziness in the medium to farther distance is what has mostly bothered me about HL2's graphics so far.
Perhaps the latter can be remedied with a large amount of AF applied, but I'm not sure that will make enough of a difference.

 

[Logic]

It was a date on which we would be required to purchase the game

Wrong.

 

[X-Vector]

I'd go with others and say it was kind of a HL1 end of development thing, where they thought what they had produced would be great and make the deadline.

But from feedback realised it wasn't as good as it could be (guessing sending RC's to Vivendi or something like playtesting) so decided to delay.

Two important diferences:

1. A release period had been given, but no specific date.

2. The delay was announced much farther in advance

 

[X-Vector]

Wrong.

I stand corrected, is "cordially invited" better?

Suits both game and party.

 

[Logic]

I stand corrected, is "cordially invited" better?

Suits both game and party.

I maintain that the example isn't appropriate. When you're invited to a party or event, you are expected at a specific place and time, and (depending on the situation) it is an agreement between you and the organiser that you will turn up. You are therefore letting someone down if you don't turn up, and consequently most likely feel more obligated to go.

With a game release date, there's no agreement between you and Valve that you will purchase the game. You're not expected at a certain time or place.. it's a totally different scenario. There is no obligation or even pressure to turn up, and therefore there is no reason something like a release date needs to mess with your schedule. You can buy the game ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, after the release date.