Another Raising The Bar Scandal?

[X-Vector]

With a game release date, there's no agreement between you and Valve that you will purchase the game.

There were no pre-orders offered before 30 September 2003?

Of course, no one is obliged to pre-order or purchase a game on the first day of release, but then again no party will take place without some people not turning up.
The people that really care, though, will mark the event in their calendars and look forward to the day they can have their fun.
If it helps matters, forget about the invitation part and just assume the party of the year is one that is advertised by public announcement - wouldn't very much alter the dismay about a last-minute delay I should think.

Regardless of minor holes in the analogy, it's the gist that counts and it's the gist that's the reason why I posted it in the first place.
The gist is to be found in the last sentence of my initial post.

 

[jheaddon]

Two important diferences:

1. A release period had been given, but no specific date.

2. The delay was announced much farther in advance

Yes i know that, but how do you know it's not along the same lines (like i did say), just they realised much later. And VALVe were aiming for a set release date with the original HL, thankgod they missed that one/chose to avoid that one

 

[X-Vector]

Jheaddon, you don't honestly expect Valve realised their discomfort with that version of HL2 only a week before the supposed release, a point in time where the game should already have gone gold and should have been in duplication?

It's the whole point of my criticism, having the knowledge but not disclosing it to the customership.

 

[Bait]

Jheaddon, you don't honestly expect Valve realised their discomfort with that version of HL2 only a week before the supposed release, a point in time where the game should already have gone gold and should have been in duplication?

It's the whole point of my criticism, having the knowledge but not disclosing it to the customership.

You are making it sound like the members at Valve are evil satanic cult members, laughing and grinning at our frustration with each and every delay they ditch out. Valve didn't want that delay to happen. Valve would have much prefered the game to be out in '03. But the bottom line is that SHIT HAPPENS. They realized that the game wasn't up to par what they wanted to be. The extra time they devoted to it is clearly the reason why the game has got to a stage of quality good enough to be dubbed "Possibly the greatest game of all time." The delay wasn't a curse, or a problem, it was a blessing. Be happy Valve was smart enough to continue development instead of shipping out a crappy product just so that their oh-so-loving fanbase wouldn't say they "lied".

 

[jheaddon]

No i hardly doubt that they realised that late, i'd imagine if it was the case they would have imagined upto say a few weeks earlier.

You can't suddenly go "Hey Vivendi, urr by the way we're not impressed with the final build so we're going to take another year". It takes a few weeks to build that kind of thing up and an agreement on it, which is what i think happened in the weeks before, why they were so quiet.

Of course i could be completely wrong but then again so could most of us

 

[Logic]

Regardless of minor holes in the analogy, it's the gist that counts and it's the gist that's the reason why I posted it in the first place.
The gist is to be found in the last sentence of my initial post.

An analogy shouldn't be used if it doesn't fit. The reason I argued against it, is that the analogy suggests that Valve's actions were worse than they were. If you cancel a party last minute, you've ruined many people's plans for nothing. If you cancel a game release, people are disapointed, but at least you haven't caused them to miss work, or buy presents, or change their schedule, for no reason. And if you did change your schedule around in advance, to be free for the relase date, or buy a computer to better run the game... that's your problem, since release dates are missed very often in this industry. A release date is not a promise, it's a target. An estimate.

 

[X-Vector]

An analogy shouldn't be used if it doesn't fit.

I've already addressed this in my post above this one, no need for repetition on my part.

A release date is not a promise, it's a target. An estimate.

It's your prerogative if you feel this applies to the 30/9 situation, but I think it's a rather cynical point of view.
If a developer and/or publisher that has announced a specific day of release can't be expected to either stick to it or warn the public about a delay in proper advance, then what *can* we expect?

Imagine the uproar if Bungie or Microsoft announced an indefinite delay for Halo 2 tomorrow, would people have right and reason to be upset or not?

 

[Logic]

It's your prerogative if you feel this applies to the 30/9 situation, but I think it's a rather cynical point of view.
If a developer and/or publisher that has announced a specific day of release can't be expected to either stick to it or warn the public about a delay in proper advance, then what *can* we expect?

You can expect that this will usually be the case, but you can't demand it.

I haven't been keeping up with Halo 2's progress, but (assuming it hasn't gone gold yet) I would say it's much the same deal. Yes, people would be disappointed, and voice that disappointment, but these things happen, and any hatred towards the developers for such a delay would be very immature.

 

[Brian Damage]

I wasn't saying that it was only the graphics that have been improved by now, BTW. Read my post and I basically said "the graphics and whatever else". The graphics were just the primary example because we don't know enough about the gameplay or other changes between 2003 and the final build to comment on differences.

I just reckon they weren't ready to release on the 30th, and intended to release a couple of weeks later once they realised, and then pulled a lesser version of what they did with the original Half Life, and re-did a lot of stuff because it either A: Wasn't working (The Hydra) or B: Wasn't good enough (Maybe some of the graphical features? Maybe the physical puzzles needed work? Who knows...), which caused the year's delay.

 

[gusolson]

I think everyone who was excited about the game had reason to be upset with valve about the 9/30 debacle. However, it's been over a year, there's really no cause to still be upset about it. If you want to hold a grudge with a group of people you don't even know for the rest of your life, be my guest. Yes valve screwed up, and we did have a right to be angry, but it seems they have more than make up for it in the final product (not necicarily in the graphics department, but in areas where it actually counts).

 

[X-Vector]

Gusolson, I don't know if that post is directed at me; if so, it's only partly true.

Being angry and holding a grudge are too extreme descriptions for my view of Valve as a company, however I do take issue with their PR policy and in particular the fact that they have repeatedly offered release estimates even though they have also repeatedly admitted they are pretty clueless when it comes to the accuracy of these predictions.
IMO they've been guilty of dangling the carrot just as much as 3DR during the first years of the development of Duke Nukem Forever (which they have admitted was never anywhere close to being finished).

I guess you could say that my take is a somewhat milder version of Fragmaster's - don't like Valve's PR ethics much, but I do still look forward to the game.
It's a shame the buzz I felt last year isn't there anymore, but if HL2 is as good as the magazine reviews make it out to be then there's still a chance it will return come release day.

 

[Logic]

If you're in the game industry, you can't really be 'guilty' of dangling the carrot... that's your job. I'm aware that Valve have made some mistakes, but they have always acted in the interest of the quality of the game, and as such should be commended, not attacked.

 

[flo_Orian]

wtf i dont care if they have stolen the manipulator. at least it's fun for us to play.