Are you a feminist or a sexist?

[The Monkey]

If you believe in total equality between the sexes in all aspects of society, but don't call yourself a feminist, vote #2 anyway...

EDIT: There seem to be a lot of arguments about the definition of "feminist" is, but please, don'r mind that. The true meaning of this thread was to debate about the euuality between men and women.

 

[The Monkey]

What's your next poll, "Are you racist or a race traitor?"

That's not the same thing. Here I had a third option and even have an explanation to each option. Could you've come up with a fourth choice?

 

[Edcrab]

...whaaat?

Why on Earth did you think that equality (i.e., common bloody sense) equalled feminism?

And, indeed, what's your next thread idea mate? "Was Hitler good?"

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Ultra-feminist and sexist are the exact same thing.
And believing in equality doesn't make you feminist, it makes you a supporter of equal rights.
This poll sucks

 

[Feath]

That's not the same thing. Here I had a third option and even have an explanation to each option. Could you've come up with a fourth choice?

I wouldn't say that the second option was Feminist. Feminist implies an active role, than just "I have nothing against women getting equal pay or opportunites".

What I meant, is that you're ignoring a middle ground. Someone may not be sexist but still think that women and men should have different jobs. You may wish woman to have equal pay in an office but you don't think that they should fight on the front line in a war. That view could be described as sexist but there are some reasons for thinking that way.

The use of the term "Race traitor" is a way of having two words with negative associations.

 

[xLostx]

why am I the only one that has voted sexist so far, you pansies!

 

[The Monkey]

I wouldn't say that the second option was Feminist. Feminist implies an active role, than just "I have nothing against women getting equal pay or opportunites".

What I meant, is that you're ignoring a middle ground. Someone may not be sexist but still think that women and men should have different jobs. You may wish woman to have equal pay in an office but you don't think that they should fight on the front line in a war. That view could be described as sexist but there are some reasons for thinking that way.

The use of the term "Race traitor" is a way of having two words with negative associations.

Why shouldb't they be in the military? There's no study in the world that shows that women aren't as fit for standard military service as men. Sure, they might not be able to run as long, but they sure are as good, if not better at aiming and commanding.

But ir's mainly just defenitions of words, and it's no big deal.

 

[The Mullinator]

Why shouldb't they be in the military? There's no study in the world that shows that women aren't as fit for standard military service as men. Sure, they might not be able to run as long, but they sure are as good, if not better at aiming and commanding.

But ir's mainly just defenitions of words, and it's no big deal.

The most major concern stems from the fact that an all male group typically works with itself better than a mixed sex group.

 

[Edcrab]

Well, we're not the only guys to post very strange polls- but I really can't see the reasoning behind this one.

Surely the only respectable answer is "Femenist" (ignoring why you've called the sensible option that for a moment)? It's a public poll, so aren't you essentially asking people to make their prejudices clear before having to explain them- it's like asking whether other people are racist; anyone who answers "yes" is going to be flamed to pieces and doesn't belong here...

 

[The Monkey]

Well, we're not the only guys to post very strange polls- but I really can't see the reasoning behind this one.

Surely the only respectable answer is "Femenist" (ignoring why you've called the sensible option that for a moment)? It's a public poll, so aren't you essentially asking people to make their prejudices clear before having to explain them- it's like asking whether other people are racist; anyone who answers "yes" is going to be flamed to pieces and doesn't belong here...

The vote being public was a mistake by me when creating the poll. A moderator can remove that function when they see this. But yet, if you stand for your opinions you shouldn't be bothered to let everyone know about them. And if you are bothered, well, then don't vote.

As I said, this turning into a debate about the definition about the word, and not about equality. The only one so far to discuss the actual subject is The Mullinator,

 

[Feath]

Why shouldb't they be in the military? There's no study in the world that shows that women aren't as fit for standard military service as men. Sure, they might not be able to run as long, but they sure are as good, if not better at aiming and commanding.

But ir's mainly just defenitions of words, and it's no big deal.

I would never ever call myself a feminist or a sexist. So I regard it as a big deal. And even having the word "Sexist" in the poll makes the poll biased. It's not a word that many people want to be associated with.

Also, I don't have an opinion on women in the front line, but what you said about there being "no study" is just wrong.

42. There is a large discrepancy between the size, fitness and physical capability of the average male and female recruit and soldier. The lower performance capabilities of the average female soldier compared with her male counterpart will impact on her ability to perform the physically demanding tasks required of Infantry and RAC personnel. The overwhelming majority of females applying to the Army or currently serving in the Army would be physically incapable of performing many of the tasks required by the Infantry and RAC. Among the remainder who might achieve the required standards, the risk of injury will be higher than among their male counterparts, as these individuals will be working at a higher percentage of their maximum capability, and their reserve capacity will be less.

http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/ewaf_full_report.pdf

 

[Edcrab]

Look, I'm not trying to linger on your definitions or the idea of defending a viewpoint but on the nature of the poll itself- you're effectively asking whether people are full-formed members of society or prejudiced bastards.

Nevermind the usual Stern/gh0st firefights, who knows what'll happen now you've made a thread that actually has only one respectable view to vote for :O

Although already we've got one guy who's voted "sexist" as a joke. Yay!

 

[The Monkey]

I would never ever call myself a feminist or a sexist. So I regard it as a big deal. And even having the word "Sexist" in the poll makes the poll biased. It's not a word that many people want to be associated with.

Racist don't want to be called racist either, even if they are. And yes, this poll is biasted, but political forums are not known for its neutrality, are they?

Also, I don't have an opinion on women in the front line, but what you said about there being "no study" is just wrong.


http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/ewaf_full_report.pdf

Interesting. Yes, men are more capable of doing heavy work, but it takes more than that to form a soldier.

Look, I'm not trying to linger on your definitions or the idea of defending a viewpoint but on the nature of the poll itself- you're effectively asking whether people are full-formed members of society or prejudiced bastards.

Nevermind the usual Stern/gh0st firefights, who knows what'll happen now you've made a thread that actually has only one respectable view to vote for

Although already we've got one guy who's voted "sexist" as a joke. Yay!

You know, from my point of view, sexists are "prejudiced bastards". But no one is forcing them to vote in this poll.

 

[kirovman]

Ohn noes! Public poll, all my prejudices and extremities are availible for the w0rld to see!

 

[Edcrab]

I'm not trying to sympathise with prejudiced bastards (as I rather clumsily put it), just the fact that I really don't think you're going to get any "genuine" or half-articulate sexists here to take part in your debate because they'd know they'd get flamed to death as they don't have a leg to stand on.

But even though we're yet to encounter anyone who truly disagrees with the only defensible viewpoint, I'm going to make a post as if someone has ...

By its very definition "sexism" refers to discriminating against a person because of their gender, while taking none of the other aspects of their personality/physical capabilty into account.

So you might, for example, argue that the army is innately sexist for not taking more female recruits on board, but the cold fact of the matter is that males tend to be significantly more adept in a physiological sense- so it's based on ability rather than gender.

It's like insurance- to make a parralel more can relate to- and how the premiums of young men would be far more than, say, a female pensioner's. It's nothing to do with agism or sexism, but the statistical research which proves that, regrettably, women and mature drivers are far safer than their teenage counterparts.

 

[xLostx]

still the only sexist here, tisk tisk :x

 

[PvtRyan]

I'm sexy.... ohhhhh yeaaaaahhhhh!

 

[Absinthe]

I believe in the social equality between men and women, but that does not mean feminism.

So... I voted for the rationale, not the title.

 

[15357]

one time, several years ago, i told people that men and women are equal so we all should use the same restrooms and same public baths.

didn't work out well.

 

[kirovman]

I believe in the social equality between men and women, but that does not mean feminism.

So... I voted for the rationale, not the title.

Same like the other 14 voters I believe.

This poll is having the same effect as a poll on "Are you a Nazi, Communist or Terrorist?"

 

[Razor]

The poll is shit, you have misintepreted what feminist means. If you're a feminist, you're sexist towards women, if you're a masculinist, you are sexist towards men. Feminists have never and will never fight for equal rights, they fight for women's rights./

 

[Sprafa]

igualitarian.

If women want the same rights as men, then they should be forced to do the same things (Army as a notable example) as men. Same for all other bitched minorities.

 

[The Monkey]

igualitarian.

If women want the same rights as men, then they should be forced to do the same things (Army as a notable example) as men. Same for all other bitched minorities.

Can you name one thing except the military service that men, but not women have to do?

 

[kirovman]

Can you name one thing except the military service that men, but not women have to do?

Goto the men's toilet.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

feminists are so stupid

also, not trying to be sexist, but i think women don't know what they want
it's like they are trying to join "men only club"

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Well I wouldn't want a 'relationship' with a man... so thats swayed my opinion.

Oh, and I see I'm the only one.

 

[The Monkey]

Goto the men's toilet.

Well they don't have to do that

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I'll side with Sprafa. Egalitarianism is where we should be heading. Can't help but to think of Starship Troopers

So, yeah, shouldn't the (men = women) choice be called egalitarian?

 

[iyfyoufhl]

woman have to realize that they are best being a woman, not trying to be a man

men and women can never be equal

 

[Feath]

woman have to realize that they are best being a woman, not trying to be a man

men and women can never be equal

It's not just that. It's not that women should be masculine. It's about getting equal pay, and an equal chance at doing well.

 

[Razor]

woman have to realize that they are best being a woman, not trying to be a man

men and women can never be equal

Seconded

 

[Sprafa]

Can you name one thing except the military service that men, but not women have to do?

I would go into a subjective discussion.

Namely about misbehavior/slacking and consequent bailout of women thru.... alternate means.
You would reply "what about rape and domestic violence, traditionally upon women..." and it would go downhill pretty soon.
Simply put, military service is enough for me. They should be forced upon it.

And if women don't have the same physical capabilities of men, then they automatically are not equal for biological factors. Then, we forcing an illusion of equality of pure idiocy. They automatically don't have the same opportunities men do.

It's ridiculous not to think that there is a chance that our brains might be diferentially built. Women & Men have served different sides on society ever since the beggining of Mankind (millions of years ago... ). Hereditary psychological divergences are quite possible. Is it ridiculous to consider that the differently shaped head of women has an influence on their cranial capacity ? Not saying that cranial capacity equals intelligence, but the truth is that they're different. I wouldn't doubt it goes beyond boobs and pussy

 

[iyfyoufhl]

It's not just that. It's not that women should be masculine. It's about getting equal pay, and an equal chance at doing well.

true,true
femenism, first thing that pops into my head is "men-haters"

 

[The Mullinator]

The one thing I can't stand about "equal rights activists" is that they expect everything should happen right away. They seem to want equal rights, opportunities, and pay for all women to happen over night. They never seem to understand that you can't force changes down other peoples throats without expecting them to barf it back into their faces.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

I would go into a subjective discussion.

Namely about misbehavior/slacking and consequent bailout of women thru.... alternate means.
You would reply "what about rape and domestic violence, traditionally upon women..." and it would go downhill pretty soon.
Simply put, military service is enough for me. They should be forced upon it.

And if women don't have the same physical capabilities of men, then they automatically are not equal for biological factors. Then, we forcing an illusion of equality of pure idiocy.

well said, iam all with you,

we should get a girl in here to talk about this

 

[The Monkey]

I would go into a subjective discussion.

Namely about misbehavior/slacking and consequent bailout of women thru.... alternate means.
You would reply "what about rape and domestic violence, traditionally upon women..." and it would go downhill pretty soon.
Simply put, military service is enough for me. They should be forced upon it.

And if women don't have the same physical capabilities of men, then they automatically are not equal for biological factors. Then, we forcing an illusion of equality of pure idiocy. They automatically don't have the same opportunities men do.

It's ridiculous not to think that there is a chance that our brains might be diferentially built. Women & Men have served different sides on society ever since the beggining of Mankind (millions of years ago... ). Hereditary psychological divergences are quite possible. Is it ridiculous to consider that the differently shaped head of women has an influence on their cranial capacity ? Not saying that cranial capacity equals intelligence, but the truth is that they're different. I wouldn't doubt it goes beyond boobs and pussy

Yes, if you have compulsory military service it should apply to women too. And about the brain size; compared to their weight their brain is bigger than men's. But it's wrong to think that women can take care of children better than men. Men are, except for the breast-feeding part, just as capable to take care of children as women, and women are just as capable as men in the working life.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Yes, if you have compulsory military service it should apply to women too. And about the brain size; compared to their weight their brain is bigger than men's. But it's wrong to think that women can take care of children better than men. Men are, except for the breast-feeding part, just as capable to take care of children as women, and women are just as capable as men in the working life.

sorry i wouldn't trust a women in a battle, i would expect her to cheat on me with an enemy

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

They have different attitudes to life, realistically making them more or less capable at different things. Also men usually sit at both extremes of intelligence, where as women sit somewhere in the middle.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Also men usually sit at both extremes of intelligence, where as women sit somewhere in the middle.

uhhh, i don't know about it, it's defenetly a strech

 

[The Monkey]

sorry i wouldn't trust a women in a battle, i would expect her to cheat on me with an enemy

You wouldn't want to be allied to the Israelis then...