Assualt Weapons Ban

[Gunner]

Just my two cents, I'm neither for or against gun control, but tobacco, alcohol, and car accidents kill a lot more people every year than firearms. It's a matter of priority if you ask me - you have to fix the bigger problems first.

 

[Korgoth]

less guns, more pie

Jeah, right stern, you liberal twit, if we had more pie and less guns you would just say we were to fat and un protected. flip flopper!!!!!obviously joking eh,

 

[el Chi]

The intent of the Second Amendment is perfectly clear.

The 2nd Amendment protects the exsisting right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

It's also over two centuries old. Its motives aren't exactly contemporary, nor are they particularly relevant. The reason that it was seen fit for the people to keep close tabs on government (in the form of a potential militia) was that at that time the US was a very young country that had come into existence through violence and had just been through a civil war if I'm not very much mistaken. Such a turbulent recent history meant that, at that time, the country was hugely instable and the fear that it could return to a monarchical system was rife and, to an extent, understandable.

Nowadays I hardly think that you could say that is in any way applicable to the USA. Which leads me to the conclusion that much of the amendment itself is inapplicable to the country today.

I understand that guns are big and to completely do away with them would, ironically, spark up another civil war. Handguns for "protection" and shotguns/lower-powered rifles for hunting I can unerstand. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's another matter altogether.
But assault rifles!? How can you justify a "need" for those? What possible role can they play for "normal" people? I don't think you can, to be honest.

 

[CptStern]

Jeah, right stern, you liberal twit, if we had more pie and less guns you would just say we were to fat and un protected. flip flopper!!!!!obviously joking eh,

hmmmm what if I use the gun to get more pie?


well, no, I'm against guns so ...hmmmmm damn this flip flopping!



how about this:


guns make baby jesus cry

 

[CptStern]

El Chi you have more spiritual fortitude than I :cheers: . I just cant muster the energy to debate such a self-evident issue as why the common citizen should not have access to assualt rifles.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

In today's current climate, any militia working towards overthrowing a government that they see as tyrannical would just be labelled a terrorist organisation and get wiped out in a day or two anyways.

That's why a militia would only be needed if the US was attacked with enemy ground forces. And since the US has the largest and best equipped army in the world by a large margin, I don't see that happening either.

Guns make baby Jesus cry

Luckily, Jesus is long dead, so we don't need to put up with the noise.

 

[Korgoth]

hmmmm what if I use the gun to get more pie?


well, no, I'm against guns so ...hmmmmm damn this flip flopping!



how about this:


guns make baby jesus cry

Well apparently not, this guy at work tells me everyday that if Jesus were alive he'd vote republican because they are anti-abortion/anti gay marriage. And then I tell him that Jesus wouldn't vote at all because he is also anti war, and anti idol worship. Then he screams at me when I tell him that there are more than just christians that live in this country. And he also thinks that we must destroy every pallestian so Jesus can return. And then I remember every day why i'm voting kerry.




sorry if anyone is offended by my post, please don't reply if you are, and if you are pm me instead so as not to go any further off topic than I have already taken us. Because when you go off topic you make farrowlsparrow cry. And when that happens, oh heaven help us all

 

[el Chi]

El Chi you have more spiritual fortitude than I :cheers: . I just cant muster the energy to debate such a self-evident issue as why the common citizen should not have access to assualt rifles.

Ithangyow. But yeah, one would have hoped it was obvious. Apparently not.

Quote: Guns make baby Jesus cry

Luckily, Jesus is long dead, so we don't need to put up with the noise.

Oh you are a wag!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Well apparently not, this guy at work tells me everyday that if Jesus were alive he'd vote republican because they are anti-abortion/anti gay marriage. And then I tell him that Jesus wouldn't vote at all because he is also anti war, and anti idol worship. Then he screams at me when I tell him that there are more than just christians that live in this country. And he also thinks that we must destroy every pallestian so Jesus can return. And then I remember every day why i'm voting kerry.

Just tell your co-worker that he's pretty much come up with the best (and only) argument I've ever heard for why Jesus shouldn't come back. :O

Oh you are a wag!

Yes, yes I am. Or am I???

 

[Pressure]

I'm feelin the love.

 

[CptStern]

In today's current climate, any militia working towards overthrowing a government that they see as tyrannical would just be labelled a terrorist organisation and get wiped out in a day or two anyways.

That's why a militia would only be needed if the US was attacked with enemy ground forces. And since the US has the largest and best equipped army in the world by a large margin, I don't see that happening either.


Luckily, Jesus is long dead, so we don't need to put up with the noise.

"luckily" :

oooohhhh you're going to get some angry fist shaking from the christians for that remark :E






indeed



disclaimer: The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various authors and forum participants on this web site do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of Halflife2.net or official policies of Halflife2.net.



:E


EDIT: Innervision does foam collect at the sides of your co-workers mouth when he blathers on about jesus and palestinians?

as soon as he said "jesus said ..." it would be end of discussion for me

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

It's also over two centuries old. Its motives aren't exactly contemporary, nor are they particularly relevant. The reason that it was seen fit for the people to keep close tabs on government (in the form of a potential militia) was that at that time the US was a very young country that had come into existence through violence and had just been through a civil war if I'm not very much mistaken. Such a turbulent recent history meant that, at that time, the country was hugely instable and the fear that it could return to a monarchical system was rife and, to an extent, understandable.

Nowadays I hardly think that you could say that is in any way applicable to the USA. Which leads me to the conclusion that much of the amendment itself is inapplicable to the country today.

I understand that guns are big and to completely do away with them would, ironically, spark up another civil war. Handguns for "protection" and shotguns/lower-powered rifles for hunting I can unerstand. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's another matter altogether.
But assault rifles!? How can you justify a "need" for those? What possible role can they play for "normal" people? I don't think you can, to be honest.

The motives are very contemporary... It is called Freedom. Freedom to do as you please as long as you are not infringing on others freedoms...

In a free society, the burden of proof is not upon those who would exercise a right but on those who would infringe that right.

 

[Korgoth]

The motives are very contemporary... It is called Freedom. Freedom to do as you please as long as you are not infringing on others freedoms...

In a free society, the burden of proof is not upon those who would exercise a right but on those who would infringe that right.

So with this logic, drugs should be legal (all of them), gay marriage should be legal also. Because it isn't hurting anyone else so why not right?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

So with this logic, drugs should be legal (all of them), gay marriage should be legal also. Because it isn't hurting anyone else so why not right?

You'll have to get several million people to elect like minded politicians who will vote in favor of your agenda. Like the 2nd ammendment supporters just did.

 

[Korgoth]

i'm just sayin pot smokin' and gay lovers are a lot less dangerous to my personal being than an m16

 

[el Chi]

The motives are very contemporary... It is called Freedom. Freedom to do as you please as long as you are not infringing on others freedoms...

In a free society, the burden of proof is not upon those who would exercise a right but on those who would infringe that right.

What about common sense?
The simple fact is that there is no practical justifiable need for privately-owned assault rifles.

Also, by your rationale, heroine should be legal - if someone takes it out of choice, and they buy it with their own money then they infringe on no-one. You wouldn't defend heroine.

EDIT: I see Innervision already made this point. Whatever.

 

[CptStern]

You'll have to get several million people to elect like minded politicians who will vote in favor of your agenda. Like the 2nd ammendment supporters just did.

ya well sometimes the majority is wrong

this is fecking insane

what's next? concealed weapons at church? or is that already the norm?

 

[el Chi]

ya well sometimes the majority is wrong

Yes, but if we don't go on the will of the masses, then what do we do?

But you're right - that story's ridiculous.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

What about common sense?
The simple fact is that there is no practical justifiable need for privately-owned assault rifles.

Also, by your rationale, heroine should be legal - if someone takes it out of choice, and they buy it with their own money then they infringe on no-one. You wouldn't defend heroine.

Re read what I said... It is a right of our citizens.. You tell me why my right should be removed.

I use my mini-14 to keep current with my skills at work. The mini has the same sight picture as my M-16, fires the same round, and the round has the same flight charectoristics... It has differences in recoil however and while the ban was in affect I couldn't purchase an AR-15 that had the same compensator as the M-16. Now I can... And will, as soon as manufacturers put them on the shelf, get an AR-15.

An AR-15 is a great varmit gun... Prarie dog, Fox, Coon, etc. It's also not bad for defense (Kinda why the Military uses it)

On top of that they are great fun out at the range. It's very rewarding to put a round on target with open sights when your targets beyond 300 meters.

It takes skill to do that... A serious dedication to the sport of shooting.

Many people in the US fly model rockets. What's the need there? Bans are coming to outlaw the solid rocket motors because they can be turned into an explosive weapon.

So again the burden of proof is against the Government to remove our rights.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Yes, but if we don't go on the will of the masses, then what do we do?

But you're right - that story's ridiculous.

We call that a dictatorship...

 

[CptStern]

Yes, but if we don't go on the will of the masses, then what do we do?

But you're right - that story's ridiculous.

ya but usually the majority isnt technically the majority ...people who support gun legislation tend to be voters ..people who support looser drug laws (decriminalisation etc) usually dont vote in the same numbers.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

ya but usually the majority isnt technically the majority ...people who support gun legislation tend to be voters ..people who support looser drug laws (decriminalisation etc) usually dont vote in the same numbers.

"Yo dude... Were we supposed to vote today?"

"I don't know man... I can't find my legs. Did you see where I put my legs?"

 

[CptStern]

An AR-15 is a great varmit gun... Prarie dog, Fox, Coon, etc. It's also not bad for defense (Kinda why the Military uses it)

I find it hard to believe you eat everything you shoot ...why you would need that gun to thrill kill animals is beyond me


defense? From what you've posted in the past I take it you live in a rural area? Didnt realise the crime rate in rural areas is so high.

 

[el Chi]

Sgt_Shellback, I think the time has come to agree to disagree.
You say it's an issue of rights and that there's no reason for you to have your rights removed, especially if you infringe on no-one else.
I say that's archaic nonsense and that if assault weapons were restricted from the mass populous, this would not be as grave an injustice as you make out.

Neither of us is going to change our minds on the strength of the other's argument - that is simply not what happens on internet forums Seriously though, our views are different and far apart enough that we could go on forever and not budge a single bit.

Just out of interest, what is it you do that means you need to brush up on your rifle-blasting skills? Military? Law enforcement?

With regards to that last post - I know that would be a dictatorship; that was the implication. Although actually, we could turn to Anarchism.

 

[CptStern]

"Yo dude... Were we supposed to vote today?"

"I don't know man... I can't find my legs. Did you see where I put my legs?"

not as scary as:

From my cold dead hands

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I find it hard to believe you eat everything you shoot ...why you would need that gun to thrill kill animals is beyond me


defense? From what you've posted in the past I take it you live in a rural area? Didnt realise the crime rate in rural areas is so high.

Crime is not high here. Most houses around me have guns and no trespassing signs. Viola! Crimes down.

We eat everything we shoot, period. You'll just have to trust me on that. I've never bought a turkey for instance.

My sons do the hunting now. I go to the range or shoot at home at least once a month.

 

[el Chi]

"Yo dude... Were we supposed to vote today?"
"I don't know man... I can't find my legs. Did you see where I put my legs?"

Yo dude... I know, like, erm... Like, this thread has gotten a bit... Y'know... Like woah... But surely you can, um, like - Come up with a better um... Um... Argument... than that? Like... Y'know?


Also:

Crime is not high here. Most houses around me have guns and no trespassing signs. Viola! Crimes down.

Erm... No. Crime is generally not high in rural areas. It goes as follows: Rural areas = Lower populous = Less people to commit crime = Less crime.
I am currently on anti-convulsant medication to control my epilepsy. The catch-22 is that, until I have a seizure I have no real inkling of whether it really is working or not. The same goes for your logic on crime and guns as a deterrent.


EDIT: Yeah I know you were having fun with the "Yo like dude..." comment, but so was I
I appreciate that you were trying more to share your opinion than change mine - it's just that I've seen so many discussions along these lines turn sour...

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Sgt_Shellback, I think the time has come to agree to disagree.
You say it's an issue of rights and that there's no reason for you to have your rights removed, especially if you infringe on no-one else.
I say that's archaic nonsense and that if assault weapons were restricted from the mass populous, this would not be as grave an injustice as you make out.

Neither of us is going to change our minds on the strength of the other's argument - that is simply not what happens on internet forums Seriously though, our views are different and far apart enough that we could go on forever and not budge a single bit.

Just out of interest, what is it you do that means you need to brush up on your rifle-blasting skills? Military? Law enforcement?

With regards to that last post - I know that would be a dictatorship; that was the implication. Although actually, we could turn to Anarchism.

I'm a Sgt in the National Guard, an Army Air Cavalry unit to be exact. The same unit that liberated parts of Belgium during WW2.

I agree with you and respect your opinion even if I disagree. I wasn't trying to change your mind so much as share my side of it.

Edit: I was just having fun with the dude stuff... Take no offense to it.

 

[CptStern]

Crime is not high here. Most houses around me have guns and no trespassing signs. Viola! Crimes down.

We eat everything we shoot, period. You'll just have to trust me on that. I've never bought a turkey for instance.

My sons do the hunting now. I go to the range or shoot at home at least once a month.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when you say you eat everything you kill, not that that solves the morality issue behind killing animals ...you could always go to grocery stores (but then ethical dilemna of the treatment of animals in slaughterhouses creeps it's ugly little head)

seriously how are you suppoed to teach your children about the sactity of life if they're already taking it away? But it's none of my business how you choose to raise your kids ...frankly I dont think my kid will ever see the inside of a zoo but that's my choice

 

[alehm]

seriously how are you suppoed to teach your children about the sactity of life if they're already taking it away? But it's none of my business how you choose to raise your kids ...frankly I dont think my kid will ever see the inside of a zoo but that's my choice

Unrelated, that reminds me of this guy in college I knew that was an animal activist and when he went protesting it was a badge of honor to get arrested and beat up by the police. He was hardcore into saving animals that couldn't help themselves but he thought it was a choice for us to abort human life. I always found that odd.

 

[CptStern]

Unrelated, that reminds me of this guy in college I knew that was an animal activist and when he went protesting it was a badge of honor to get arrested and beat up by the police. He was hardcore into saving animals that couldn't help themselves but he thought it was a choice for us to abort human life. I always found that odd.

not all activists can be lumped into the same catagory, he seems like a bit of an idiot but thats just my opinion: My goal has never been to get arrested and beaten by cops

the abortion and animal rights issues are completely unrelated


most animal activists are protesting the treatment of animals

 

[Hapless]

To think that in this day and age, there is still an amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion. Now we have Wiccans, Satanists, Rastafarians, etc. and it's self evident that these aren't REAL religions, and therefore no common citizen should be able to practice them.

And what about this Freedom of the Press thingie? When the Constitution was written over 200 years ago, there was no FOX news. No common citizen needs to watch FOX news when they can just watch CBS. What an archaic notion.

Don't get me strarted on Freedom of Speech.

/me takes tongue out of cheek..................

 

[Korgoth]

Unrelated, that reminds me of this guy in college I knew that was an animal activist and when he went protesting it was a badge of honor to get arrested and beat up by the police. He was hardcore into saving animals that couldn't help themselves but he thought it was a choice for us to abort human life. I always found that odd.

Yup I see your point. Getting arrested and beaten up by the cops is not something to be proud of, its actually why a lot of people demonstrate I suppose.
Abortion and animal rights are two seperate issues all together. Me for instance. I have no problem with hunting, as long as its done for purpose not for sport. Killing for sport is kind of stupid, since you are denying life to a creature for your own amusement. If you kill to eat, more power to you, becuase I buy my burgers doesn't mean the cow doesn't die somewhere down the line, so I'm not going to be hypocritical in that repect.
Abortion, I'm pro choice on this for two main reasons. And let me say first that I don't actually agree with abortion and I think there is always a better way to do things. But I'm not going to tell someone not to get an abortion, I don't know what the situation is, I can't be their judge, especially when I don't know where they are coming from. The reasons I am pro choice are, its not my choice to make either way, and under some circumstances, abortion may be the only probable option.
Gun control, I have no problem on this one either way as well. Either regulate them, take them away, or make them available. I don't mind, as I said earlier though, I lean towards gun regulation (assualt weapons bans. Mainly becuase assualt weapons are a pure sport weapon, and as I said , killing for sport is stupid and wastefull, and immoral in my opinion.) However, just because I lean towards gun regulations doesn't make me feel I have the right to decide for everyone else.
Here is the way I think it should be. We need to base our laws on the ideas of freedom and importance
: I.E.
1. Life is the most important thing any of us have on this planet. You only get one, just like everyone else, everything else. We should treat all life with absolute respect. Life may only be taken for neccessity (sp?). Example, hunting for food, yes, hunting for sport, no, abortion for life threatening reasons, yes, abortion because you can't afford a child right now, no.
2. Freedom. Everyone is free to do as they please, AS LONG, as it doesn't affect the rule above. If your actions affect some elses life in a negative manner, if it injurs someone else etc. then you are breaking the law. Example: drunk driving, affects everyone , is illegal. Smoking pot in private, affects only you, is legal. Smoking crack in a schoolyard, affects everyone, is illegal. Shooting automatic weapons for fun and target practice, hurts no one, is legal. Shooting animals for fun with automatic weapons, hurts animals needlessly, is illegal. etc. etc.

sorry to ramble...

 

[OrrA]

Here is the way I think it should be. We need to base our laws on the ideas of freedom and importance
: I.E.
1. Life is the most important thing any of us have on this planet. You only get one, just like everyone else, everything else. We should treat all life with absolute respect. Life may only be taken for neccessity (sp?). Example, hunting for food, yes, hunting for sport, no, abortion for life threatening reasons, yes, abortion because you can't afford a child right now, no.
2. Freedom. Everyone is free to do as they please, AS LONG, as it doesn't affect the rule above. If your actions affect some elses life in a negative manner, if it injurs someone else etc. then you are breaking the law. Example: drunk driving, affects everyone , is illegal. Smoking pot in private, affects only you, is legal. Smoking crack in a schoolyard, affects everyone, is illegal. Shooting automatic weapons for fun and target practice, hurts no one, is legal. Shooting animals for fun with automatic weapons, hurts animals needlessly, is illegal. etc. etc.

sorry to ramble...

I totally agree with you innervision. I couldnt have said it better :cheers: :thumbs:

 

[Korgoth]

heh thanks man! I feel love Oh and sorry bout' my post being all jarbled together above guys. I typed in paragraphs but it all came out clumped together. :upstare:

 

[Mechagodzilla]

To think that in this day and age, there is still an amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion. Now we have Wiccans, Satanists, Rastafarians, etc. and it's self evident that these aren't REAL religions, and therefore no common citizen should be able to practice them.

I can't believe you typed that. You're joking, right?
Please be joking.

There's about as much evidence that Wiccans are "right" as there is that mainsteream Christianity is "right."

i.e.: Not one scrap.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

FWIW I wouldn't be opposed to some tighter restrictions on gun purchasing on top of what already exsists... Required safety courses, required manufacture supplied gun locks, A national database that instantly checks to see if you have a criminal record before buying, etc.

Many states and manufactureres are already doing this. A national database has been proposed by not accepeted into law as far as I know. I haven't purcahsed in 2 years.

I wouldn't be opposed at all to requireing fingerprinting of every gun. (I don't recall the actual term for this but I mean when the grooves each weapon leaves on the round are stored in a database so that later law enforcement can identify what weapon fired a certain round.)

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I can't believe you typed that. You're joking, right?
Please be joking.

There's about as much evidence that Wiccans are "right" as there is that mainsteream christianity is "right."

Reading is fundemental

/me takes tongue out of cheek.................. (sic)

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Reading is fundemental

Phew then. Considering some people I've met, that post was all too real.

You might want to be careful about your wording too. It was like:

"I PLAN TO BLOW UP L.A. ON THE FOURTH OF JULY.

Also, I am a dog person. Just kidding! I love cats."

The "just kidding" aspect was downplayed somewhat. :O

 

[Sprafa]

The faster the rednecks start the 2nd American Civil War, the faster the EU turns super. therefore I just love to see assault weapons ban over.


(notice that I am too lazy to input sarcasm tags)