basic steam economy

[SubCog]

Steam is not here because people want it. Steam is not here for people to like. Valve is using its must-have products to push steam onto people who don't want it. I added up the numbers in the planethalflife poll. If you eliminate the people who havn't tried steam, 78% hate steam, 12% like it. Will people gradually accept it? Possibly. Will they like it? No.

Steam is here to help Valve earn more money. That's all. It simultaneously reduces piracy and cuts out the publishers and retailers. This means that every penny of every Steam subscription goes strait to Valve. This is unheard of in the intellectual property economy. And the only cost: Inconveniencing or completely screwing the consumers.

There are 4 major problems with steam on the consumer end. First is that low-bandwidth systems will ALWAYS have trouble with Steam. You will not be able to download a patch from a computer with a fast connection to use on low-bandwidth or closed-network systems.

Second is that the end consumer will not be able to run a lan game from a closed network. Because Steam requires each system to authenticate steam before they can play a lan game, you must have unrestricted internet to play on a lan. If you are on a closed network, or your ISP goes down, or if your firewall restricts internet use, you will not be able to run a lan game. Lan parties, Lan events, Lan tournaments, etc., MUST SUPPLY ADAQUATE UNRESTRICTED INTERNET BANDWIDTH, otherwise there will be no Lan gaming.

Third is that if Valve has trouble with Steam, including insufficient bandwidth, hackers, buggy in-house programming, etc., YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY. If you can't authenticate in a central Steam server, you can't run a lan server or join an internet game. There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL THIS. You are at Valve's mercy.

And finally, STEAM SERVER BANDWIDTH WILL ALWAYS BE MASSIVELY INSUFFICIENT. You see, any time any new game patch is released, there is a bottleneck in the imediate available bandwidth. There are many file-servers and services carrying it, but the data load is simply to big to be transfered in a single day. This transfer load is heaviest on the first day, but the pressure is slowly released until the transfer load is normalized. It takes about 3 weeks for any new patch to really become standard. However, with Steam you will be forced to update immediately, or you will not be able to play. This means that the regular 3 weeks worth of data-transer must be delivered in 1 to 2 days. 3 weeks of high bandwidth file-service (such as gamespy's) compressed into 1 to 2 day's of Valve's Steam service. Will Valve be able to deliver this? NO. It's not even a possibility. Every new Half-Life2 patch will be a new Steam patch that will (once again) overload the server. Many people are saying they prefer Steam to waiting in download cues. They have no understanding of how slowly Steam updates will transfer when the first Half-Life2 update is released. THIS PROBLEM WILL NEVER BE SOLVED, as Valve will never have that kind of bandwidth.

I offer a scenario: The first update for Half-Life 2 is released via Steam. Steam servers are immediately overloaded. Valve is unable to supply adaquate bandwidth for 3 weeks. Meanwhile, no one is able to authenticate Steam, because their not running the update. League matches cannot be held. Internet servers are empty. Lan parties will have to play Quake3.

I offer one final scenario: You come home from a long day of work. You intend to sit down and relax and play an hour of Half-Life2 online on your 640k DSL connection. A new update has been released. Steam is (amazingly) working fine. It will take only an hour to update. You will not get to play tonight.

 

[BloodyL]

Point number two is partially incorrect, Authentication is required at this time, however, I beleive Valve have stated that once everything is the way they want it, Authentication will not be neccesary for Single Player/LAN games.

 

[SubCog]

got this off the official steam faq:

"Any Steam game, when played on a LAN or otherwise, requires that each individual client be able to authenticate via the Internet.

At a LAN party, this means that Internet access must be available to every machine on which Steam games are being played. "

check it out yourself

 

[shapeshifter]

I for one am happy about steam, for the simple fact it will give those f*cking cheaters more trouble, they RUIN all multiplayer. I used to love cs/etc now its only fun if your doing it on a lan and you know the people don't cheat.

 

[x84D80Yx]

Originally posted by SubCog
Second is that the end consumer will not be able to run a lan game from a closed network. Because Steam requires each system to authenticate steam before they can play a lan game, you must have unrestricted internet to play on a lan. If you are on a closed network, or your ISP goes down, or if your firewall restricts internet use, you will not be able to run a lan game. Lan parties, Lan events, Lan tournaments, etc., MUST SUPPLY ADAQUATE UNRESTRICTED INTERNET BANDWIDTH, otherwise there will be no Lan gaming.

Third is that if Valve has trouble with Steam, including insufficient bandwidth, hackers, buggy in-house programming, etc., YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY. If you can't authenticate in a central Steam server, you can't run a lan server or join an internet game. There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL THIS. You are at Valve's mercy.

umm, thats only for the first 2 weeks i belive, and if something goes wrong with their servers you can always play SP or LAN

 

[trantjd]

As for your first point, you could say that about the internet...it's not like downloading big patches have ever been 56k friendly. Downloading games will never be feasible over a connection like that. And for those people, they can still buy a game in the stores! That doesn't negate the benefits of Steam for those of us on broadband!

A nice thing about Steam pertaining to that also will be the ability of Valve to release daily patches for small bugs that just automatically get downloaded...meaning no big releases that are clogging up the bandwidth...

Steam doesn't have to change much at all from the current distribution system, it just gives a slightly different backbone to it all. That said, it does add the flexibility to deliver content in much better ways than what was possible before!

I might be back with more rebuttal soon...in the meantime, this should be a fun thread to keep up with!

 

[trantjd]

Originally posted by SubCog
got this off the official steam faq:

"Any Steam game, when played on a LAN or otherwise, requires that each individual client be able to authenticate via the Internet.

At a LAN party, this means that Internet access must be available to every machine on which Steam games are being played. "

check it out yourself

That exact question was clarified in an e-mail to Valve (Gabe?) and they replied that it would only be the case for the first several weeks that things were up and running...check it out for yourself in the "info from Valve" thread...

EDIT: looking for a quote...

EDIT2: Found quote:

Originally posted by Chris_D
Just recieved confirmation from Gabe that Steam will NOT require an internet connection for LAN or single play. All you LAN partiers out there and guys in Australia with broadband where you pay for the bandwidth that you use or where your bandwidth is capped will not need to worry.

I'd just like to say before I post the e-mail that this is once again a fine example that Valve are NOT idiots like some of you seem to think.
And all you conspiracy theorists can all rest with your "omg teh Vaelv hav a deel wiv meh ISP so tha tehy get moor munnie from meh!!"

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Deeming [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Will it never cease?


I'm not sure if it will ever cease or not. The constant nagging question
that people are asking - Will Steam be required to have an internet
connection active when starting up a singleplayer game or a LAN game?

It's giving me a headache

Seen the petition yet?

Chris_D

No, it won't.

There will be a brief transition (like two weeks) when it is necessary, but
then it will go away. It's a temporary issue.

 

[SubCog]

umm... nope... steam faq doesn't mention first two weeks. Anyone got a quote from valve about lan authentication ending after two weeks?

 

[EC]

Originally posted by Chris_D
Just recieved confirmation from Gabe that Steam will NOT require an internet connection for LAN or single play. All you LAN partiers out there and guys in Australia with broadband where you pay for the bandwidth that you use or where your bandwidth is capped will not need to worry.

I'd just like to say before I post the e-mail that this is once again a fine example that Valve are NOT idiots like some of you seem to think.
And all you conspiracy theorists can all rest with your "omg teh Vaelv hav a deel wiv meh ISP so tha tehy get moor munnie from meh!!"

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Deeming [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Will it never cease?


I'm not sure if it will ever cease or not. The constant nagging question
that people are asking - Will Steam be required to have an internet
connection active when starting up a singleplayer game or a LAN game?

It's giving me a headache

Seen the petition yet?

Chris_D

No, it won't.

There will be a brief transition (like two weeks) when it is necessary, but
then it will go away. It's a temporary issue.

EDIT: If you all want a screenie to prove authenticity, then let me know and I'll post one up.

It's in the VALVe info only thread. :bounce:

 

[$pazmatazz]

Originally posted by SubCog
Steam is not here because people want it. Steam is not here for people to like. Valve is using its must-have products to push steam onto people who don't want it. I added up the numbers in the planethalflife poll. If you eliminate the people who havn't tried steam, 78% hate steam, 12% like it. Will people gradually accept it? Possibly. Will they like it? No.

Steam is here to help Valve earn more money. That's all. It simultaneously reduces piracy and cuts out the publishers and retailers. This means that every penny of every Steam subscription goes strait to Valve. This is unheard of in the intellectual property economy. And the only cost: Inconveniencing or completely screwing the consumers.

There are 4 major problems with steam on the consumer end. First is that low-bandwidth systems will ALWAYS have trouble with Steam. You will not be able to download a patch from a computer with a fast connection to use on low-bandwidth or closed-network systems.

Second is that the end consumer will not be able to run a lan game from a closed network. Because Steam requires each system to authenticate steam before they can play a lan game, you must have unrestricted internet to play on a lan. If you are on a closed network, or your ISP goes down, or if your firewall restricts internet use, you will not be able to run a lan game. Lan parties, Lan events, Lan tournaments, etc., MUST SUPPLY ADAQUATE UNRESTRICTED INTERNET BANDWIDTH, otherwise there will be no Lan gaming.

Third is that if Valve has trouble with Steam, including insufficient bandwidth, hackers, buggy in-house programming, etc., YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY. If you can't authenticate in a central Steam server, you can't run a lan server or join an internet game. There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL THIS. You are at Valve's mercy.

And finally, STEAM SERVER BANDWIDTH WILL ALWAYS BE MASSIVELY INSUFFICIENT. You see, any time any new game patch is released, there is a bottleneck in the imediate available bandwidth. There are many file-servers and services carrying it, but the data load is simply to big to be transfered in a single day. This transfer load is heaviest on the first day, but the pressure is slowly released until the transfer load is normalized. It takes about 3 weeks for any new patch to really become standard. However, with Steam you will be forced to update immediately, or you will not be able to play. This means that the regular 3 weeks worth of data-transer must be delivered in 1 to 2 days. 3 weeks of high bandwidth file-service (such as gamespy's) compressed into 1 to 2 day's of Valve's Steam service. Will Valve be able to deliver this? NO. It's not even a possibility. Every new Half-Life2 patch will be a new Steam patch that will (once again) overload the server. Many people are saying they prefer Steam to waiting in download cues. They have no understanding of how slowly Steam updates will transfer when the first Half-Life2 update is released. THIS PROBLEM WILL NEVER BE SOLVED, as Valve will never have that kind of bandwidth.

I offer a scenario: The first update for Half-Life 2 is released via Steam. Steam servers are immediately overloaded. Valve is unable to supply adaquate bandwidth for 3 weeks. Meanwhile, no one is able to authenticate Steam, because their not running the update. League matches cannot be held. Internet servers are empty. Lan parties will have to play Quake3.

I offer one final scenario: You come home from a long day of work. You intend to sit down and relax and play an hour of Half-Life2 online on your 640k DSL connection. A new update has been released. Steam is (amazingly) working fine. It will take only an hour to update. You will not get to play tonight.

It's nice to see some intelligence on the forums. I myself like Valve as a company, and do support Steam. However, I also do not object to the arguments you've made. Valve does seem sincerely concerned about their customers, so I believe they will have workarounds for various problems or shortfalls that we see in Steam now.

Out of curiousity, I'd like to hear what you think the pros are to Steam.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by SubCog
umm... nope... steam faq doesn't mention first two weeks. Anyone got a quote from valve about lan authentication ending after two weeks?

Originally posted by Chris_D
Just recieved confirmation from Gabe that Steam will NOT require an internet connection for LAN or single play. All you LAN partiers out there and guys in Australia with broadband where you pay for the bandwidth that you use or where your bandwidth is capped will not need to worry.

I'd just like to say before I post the e-mail that this is once again a fine example that Valve are NOT idiots like some of you seem to think.
And all you conspiracy theorists can all rest with your "omg teh Vaelv hav a deel wiv meh ISP so tha tehy get moor munnie from meh!!"

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Deeming [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Will it never cease?


I'm not sure if it will ever cease or not. The constant nagging question
that people are asking - Will Steam be required to have an internet
connection active when starting up a singleplayer game or a LAN game?

It's giving me a headache

Seen the petition yet?

Chris_D

No, it won't.

There will be a brief transition (like two weeks) when it is necessary, but
then it will go away. It's a temporary issue.

EDIT: If you all want a screenie to prove authenticity, then let me know and I'll post one up

here is an email which was sent to gabe and gabes response has been bolded. thanks to Chris_D over for emailing this to gabe.

 

[dscowboy]

The whole thing is incorrect.

Third is that if Valve has trouble with Steam, including insufficient bandwidth, hackers, buggy in-house programming, etc., YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY.

Yeah, just like if WON.net goes down right now all of a sudden, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY. That's not any different at all.

And finally, STEAM SERVER BANDWIDTH WILL ALWAYS BE MASSIVELY INSUFFICIENT. You see, any time any new game patch is released, there is a bottleneck in the imediate available bandwidth.

Wrong again. In case you haven't been following, Steam has a feature called 'pre-caching' which downloads data to your HD before it is 'released'. The Steam Final release couldn't use precaching because it required a whole new client, but the HL2 media has used precached in the past. So instead of everyone jumping on a file server the day that a big patch/game/update is released, the file gets preloaded onto your machine and when it's released, it's suddenly fully available to you. That's a hell of a lot better than waiting in the fileplanet queue for 2 hours and then waiting an hour for the download to happen.

 

[x84D80Yx]

/me high fives dscowboy :x

 

[dscowboy]

Re: Re: basic steam economy

Originally posted by dscowboy
The whole thing is incorrect.



Yeah, just like if WON.net goes down right now all of a sudden, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY. That's not any different at all.



Wrong again. In case you haven't been following, Steam has a feature called 'pre-caching' which downloads data to your HD before it is 'released'. The Steam Final release couldn't use precaching because it required a whole new client, but the HL2 media has used precached in the past. So instead of everyone jumping on a file server the day that a big patch/game/update is released, the file gets preloaded onto your machine and when it's released, it's suddenly fully available to you. That's a hell of a lot better than waiting in the fileplanet queue for 2 hours and then waiting an hour for the download to happen.

Edited to be nicer. I don't want to offend people, I'm just tired of all the misinformation floating around about Steam, and annoyed at how strongly peple want to believe and spread anything negative about it. I respect people's opinions as long as they're based on real facts.

 

[Alzxul]

I think Steam is great, but I don't have an arguement against yours because I suppose they're all valid. I admit Steam has been a bit buggy etc., but I just leave it for a few days, come back and everything's fine.

I offer one final scenario: You come home from a long day of work. You intend to sit down and relax and play an hour of Half-Life2 online on your 640k DSL connection. A new update has been released. Steam is (amazingly) working fine. It will take only an hour to update. You will not get to play tonight.

The thing I don't get about this scenario is... umm... whats wrong with it? Steam is working fine... You wait an hour for the update... your play Half-Life 2, whats the big deal, why won't you get to play tonight, because of one measly hour of updates?

 

[SubCog]

Pros to steam:

Steam is actually a revolution in the way that we think about distribution of games. I can virtually promise you that in another 20 years, all games and game-play will be ran through steam-style services. Steam is actually the way of the future. That's the pros.

cons to steam:

we're just not there yet. While the average at-home-internet-bandwidth is rapidly increasing, it's still not adaquate for mass distribution of multi-gigabyte games. Even if you have a cable modem. I myself use DSL (640k is really pretty good), and although I know that I could download a large game, I also know that it's gonna take me a couple of days to do it, ASSUMING THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SERVER BANDWIDTH, which there isn't (when was the last time you downloaded a 2 gig file off of FilePlanet? How 'bout simultaneously downloading that size file with the entire half-life community...While everyone's also downloading mods and patches. Talk about that kind of bandwidth is a joke).

Overall: Wait ten years and steam will be great. Plenty of bandwidth for everyone, and the virtual elimination of closed networks. That's where steam can flourish. Right now it's actually a really good idea, but making it mandatory is about 10 years premature.

 

[bizzy420]

steam is dope. ppl steam has only been out like a week, and everyone makes it seem like its gonna be like this forever.

ppl complained about every CS update, but do most ppl still play??? yes, they do. ppl complain about hl2 release dates, when hl2 is released, they'll start complaining about the game.

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by SubCog
Steam is not here because people want it. Steam is not here for people to like.

Heh, that's the problem with consumers, they have no idea what they want. I guarantee that in five years from now, the people who are complaining about Steam now will be the ones complaining about games that DON'T have backends like Steam.

"You mean I'll have to wait in the Fileplanet queue just to download a patch for this game? It doesn't constantly self-patch? What do you mean I have to pay 60 bucks to play Halo 4, why can't I just rent it for a month for 10 bucks? Why are there so many cheaters online for this game? Why do I have to pay a publisher and a retailer just to buy this game these independent developers made, why can't I just download it and pay them directly? Geez, I wish all games used Steam..."

 

[SubCog]

and here's another question:

If Valve issued a statement (one that's a direct contridiction to their own faq) that says lan authentication will only be for the first few weeks, doesn't that make anyone ask "why?" It doesn't make any sense. Forcing lan authentication discourages piracy. Not requiring authentication promotes the game. But a wierd mix of the two doesn't accomplish anything...

And you people who think Valve is only here for the betterment of mankind need to get a reality check. Valve is not Santa Claus. It's a business. It's here to make money.

 

[EC]

But... I sat on Santa's lap, and he whispered in my ear that he was Gabe Newell....

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by SubCog
ASSUMING THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SERVER BANDWIDTH, which there isn't (when was the last time you downloaded a 2 gig file off of FilePlanet? How 'bout simultaneously downloading that size file with the entire half-life community...While everyone's also downloading mods and patches. Talk about that kind of bandwidth is a joke).

Do the math. Valve has said they will charge developers 5% of their sales to sell a game via Steam. Assuming a $50 game price, that's 5 dollars per download. That's HUGE. Fileplanet gets PENNIES per download from their advertisers. For $7 you can download as much as you want from fileplanet for a whole month. Valve will have far more than enough money to provide all the bandwidth that's needed.

Here, I'll demonstrate it a different way. Let's assume it costs the companies who run the Steam content servers around $500 per month for every 10 Mbps they provide, a pretty reasonable estimate. This includes leasing the hardware, the rackspace, and the ISP fees. Since there are 2.6 million seconds in a month, they are paying $500 for a maximum output of 26 TERRABYTES. If 100 people download a 2 Gig, $50 game during that month, those 100 people have paid for the server but only used up 200 Gigs of throughput. Even if the games were twice that size and only cost half as much, providing plenty of bandwidth for the download would be MORE than economical, it would be extremely profitable.

 

[SubCog]

hey, I'm not saying Valve can't do it. I'm just saying that we're talking about the biggest file server mankind has ever conceptualized.

I'm not saying they can't have that much bandwidth and not make a profit. I'm saying that they can still make money if they don't.

 

[Direwolf]

Steam is obviously a work in progress, no one disputes that.
Steam will require identification when you play on the internet, just as so many games do now. But after that small transition period (I assume this is for a patch or somesuch) you wont need to authenticate to play SP or on a LAN. Cheating isn't an issues in these cases, so authentication is unecessary.
Their idea of precaching also should ease the bandwidth load by a considerable amount. They've been testing with the community all summer and September long to try and pull this off, so they could very well succeed if they're lucky.
And lastly, you're hopefully never having to pull down a 2 gig file regularly(maybe initially), as Steam is designed to only download what you need.
This should all hopefully help with the situation. Even if Steam's content delivery DOES clog, which is a possibility, I assume that authentication will be handled by seperate servers, so it will not effect people using the retail version.

 

[dscowboy]

Originally posted by SubCog
hey, I'm not saying Valve can't do it. I'm just saying that we're talking about the biggest file server mankind has ever conceptualized.

I don't know, I'd be willing to bet that the fileplanet network has similar bandwidth needs.

Steam currently has enough bandwidth so 10,000 people could simultaneously download at 150 Kbps, that's pretty big already. At that rate people would be able to download 2 Gigs in less than 2 days. After 8 days you could've distributed HL2 to 40,000 people, it will take longer than that to press CDs, box them, and ship them to stores. 40,000 - 60,000 is about on par with the number of people that preorder a major PC game release like this one. I agree that Valve should increase their bandwidth further before launch, but I don't think they have that far to go.

 

[Tropico]

Nice Thread (Aleluiah!)
Will there be a server in Europe for us poor bastards right from the beginning?

 

[manny_c44]

I think Steam is great, and using the week-before method for all new releases I bet they could get most opf the games through the network no problem.

Anyway, for playigng classic games like OP4 and HL there is no better way, I absolutely love it. I hope they put Blue Shift on it eventually because I've never played it and want to know what its about (or is it just an upgraded HL1?).

Plus you get all of the extra features and patches without ever openeing a web browser I think the idea is genious. And if it cuts out the publisher, who cares? We still get our product, the game will still sell better in the stores anyway. You don't have to get it through steam, but for those of us that can see the good qualities of steam its a luxury.

Bravo Valve!

 

[eAi]

I agree Its nice to see some people being nice about steam for once. I think its a really good program and it seems to be running much better since the auth servers went down the other day (maybe thats just me)....

Anyway,

eAi

 

[Frizz]

"THIS PROBLEM WILL NEVER BE SOLVED"

yes all they have to do is send out lots of smaller updates... no more 50mb updates just 250 5mb dl will do it


so just keep updating not 1 big update which is better as they can block more hacks this way.

 

[Feath]

Can I point out that Gabe in that e-mail was referring to the current version of Steam. You can't play single player games offline at the moment but you will be able to soon.

Valve aren't idiots, remember that. They are aware that not everyone can be online at the same time. The FAQ on the Steam page is in need of some updates.

You didn't use the argument "If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Why replace WON?" but I'm going to address it anyway. WON isn't broken, but it could use some inprovements. Steam has these improvements (Friends system and suchlike). It's progress. I'm happy with Steam and I'm sure a lot more people are going to happy when Valve resolve certain issues.

In a few years, you won't remember the problems you had with Steam. It would all be part of playing Valve games.

And on the point of Steam bottlenecks. It wasn't only the Steam Content Servers that had problems. All the internet had problems, download Queues on Fileplanet were huge, just because of Steam. That's what happens when you get everyone in the world trying to download the same thing. It isn't just a Steam issue.

 

[dscowboy]

I agree that Steam is a relatively untested technology, and will definitely have some bumps (like we saw last week with the 1.6 release). But once things are worked out, and people start to realize what a huge deal this is, we're going to start seeing some major changes:

1) Publishers and retailers will crap their pants. They've just invested hundreds of millions into the rapidly growing game industry and suddenly they'll be stareing their own obsolescence in the face. They will start inventing heavily in their own content distribution networks.
2) Developers will drool at the opportunity to take 95% of the revenue from game sales, instead of the 10% they get now.
3) Independent developers will finally have the opportunity to publish without being sponsored by HyperMegaGlobalCorp Inc.
4) Game pricing options will become more flexible (like we've seen already with HL2), and we'll be able to buy smaller, indy games for a lot cheaper.
5) Competitors to Steam will pop up, like Yahoo Games on Demand. Except they'll be able to get 'first run' games on their network instead of the 2-3 year old stuff Yahoo publishes now.


If Steam works it's going to be the Guttenburg Press of the gaming industry.

 

[Slash]

This post is totally off. People don't know what's good for them. As Steam matures people will be forced to use it and they WILL like it. You have to remember 78% of the people out there are idoits and don't know what is going on. Steam will be shoved down their throats and over time they will realize how good it is.

Also the whole "we arent ready for a bandwith program" is BS. In America for example we could have fiber optics in all the homes by now. But the communications industries are owned by rich and powerful PHONE companies. The road to broadband will be VERY slow.. in 10 years it won't be that much better. Same thing with the power industry... why do you think we still rely on oil to power everything? Do you think technology in the power industry hasn't changed in the past 100 years? Of course it has, but the people with the power and money don't give a shit, so everyone gets the shaft and learns to "live with it".

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

Lmao, if he wants to believe that they arn't fixing the LAN problem, like they SAID they would. Let him, no one is going to listen to him.

 

[Feath]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8236

There's going to be a Steam update soon.

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

Originally posted by Feath
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8236

There's going to be a Steam update soon.

You are WRONG because SubCog says Valve will never do what they say they will because its impossible :|

 

[Seikeden]

for whoever said that valve gets a 5% cut of 3rd party games they sell through steam, well compare that to the standard ~80% cut thats taken from the developers after marketing and distribution, and you're laughing. besides, isn't that only for source powered games? In which case you're getting the currently most technologically advanced game engine available for free? wow, ugh what a rough deal

 

[Apos]

Guys, let's think about this. What happens if Valve lets you play a Steam copy of HL2 in SP without needing any net connection EVER after being fully downloaded?

Uh, since currently you can download steam onto any, and as many, computers as you want, a SINGLE purchase of steam would then be able to give millions of people the SP game.

At best, you will have a choice between using the cd to authenticate (if you have one) vs. using steam at least on the game's startup to authenticate. It can't work any other way, or else it would be ridiculously easy to have hundreds of copies of one game on different computers. It kinda sucks, but what's the alternative?

 

[ZeoviZ]

Ehmhemm.

Bandwith will not be an issue when bittorrent-like thing is included in steam. Until then, Valve has absolutely no chance of serving millions of users at the same time. When that comes, people who can only dl/upload a certain amount of data per month will be in trouble.

Steam is just an option. If you don't like it, buy the cd/dvd-version and play over LAN with that.

If hackers had control of one server, everyone served could be infected with viruses, spyware and trojans.

Steam is a great idea, and I hope that Valve manages to do what they plan.

 

[MooCow]

I agree introducing p2p into steam will solve almost all of the bandwidth problems.

 

[Massif]

I'm pretty sure that if you buy it on steam, you will always have to authenticate on steam.

Also, CD versions will probably use the CD to auth. However, if Steam is not used to auth the CD version then the only thing stopping people from burning copies is cd-copy protection which is usually bypassable.

 

[Letters]

Originally posted by Massif
I'm pretty sure that if you buy it on steam, you will always have to authenticate on steam.

Also, CD versions will probably use the CD to auth. However, if Steam is not used to auth the CD version then the only thing stopping people from burning copies is cd-copy protection which is usually bypassable.

I'd really like a solid word on this... and soon... as it'll affect whether I get it from Steam or not... if I CAN'T play SP without an internet connection if I get it from Steam and CAN play SP without internet with the CD version, I WILL NOT get it from Steam! If they BOTH require you to have an internet connection, however, then I might as well go with Steam as it'll make it easier for me to get it on the release date...