Beck:I don't identify as white, why do black people identify as black?

[Shyam]

That is the title of the video, below.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911130029

 

[Rizzo]

I don't have a problem with what he said. I actually agree with that statement. But people will be offended by everything I guess.

 

[fishdbaz]

Why do black people identify themselves as black? What a dumb question. It's because they're a minority.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Glenn Beck in Doesn't Understand Race Shocker.

 

[Sparta]

I'm surprised there's not a thread about Rupert Murdoch, Beck's boss and one of the biggest media moguls in the world, calling Obama racist and agreeing with Glenn Beck as to why he's racist.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Why do black people identify themselves as black? What a dumb question. It's because they're a minority.

This makes sense how?
The color of your skin is nothing more than pigmentation, it's nothing worth creating an identity off of.
If we want to end racism, this is the mentality we need to foster.

 

[<RJMC>]

This makes sense how?
The color of your skin is nothing more than pigmentation, it's nothing worth creating an identity off of.
If we want to end racism, this is the mentality we need to foster.

I think you forget the fact that due to that pigmentation some people where and are still discriminated for

 

[fishdbaz]

This makes sense how?
The color of your skin is nothing more than pigmentation, it's nothing worth creating an identity off of.
If we want to end racism, this is the mentality we need to foster.

Unfortunately, one of the many ways that people identify themselves is through their appearance. You can't just change this fundamental aspect of Human self-identity (well, not without mass mind control or something ridiculous and drastic like that.) Instead of just pretending to ignore differences in races, we should acknowledge them but embrace the similarities instead of focusing on the differences.

 

[The Monkey]

Well, whites aren't treated as whites, but blacks are treated as blacks. Isn't that what it all boils down to?

 

[Rizzo]

Or, not being treated as black is what qualifies as being treated as white.

But seriously, I don't really know how shit looks over there in the states except what TV and random internet articles tells me.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Well, whites aren't treated as whites, but blacks are treated as blacks. Isn't that what it all boils down to?

I think in countries where white people are a minority, they are treated "as whites". Although the only major example I can think of right now is Zimbabwe, where white people, especially the farmers, have been persecuted for quite a while now.
It's pretty typical for groups to see themselves as normal I think. So perhaps when you're mostly surrounded by white people, you don't feel the need to identify in that way.

Since coming to live in South America, I certainly find myself identifying with pale skinned, blue eyed people, in a way that I just didn't before, because they were everywhere. I don't do it intentionally either. It's just that they stand out more now.

 

[Wanted Bob]

I think in countries where white people are a minority, they are treated "as whites".

Although its certainly not to the same extent, I found in Japan white people are treated differently. When I visited, we always found it very difficult to hail a cab, because the cab drivers would just ignore us. We were always sort of a zoo there (people would constantly stare at us), and when we stayed in a hotel (a Ryokan), we were heavily scrutinized for our ignorence of their traditions, whereas Japanese kids would run around screaming and being jackasses, and no-one cared at all.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

The lesson here is that people are jerks the world over :arms:

 

[No Limit]

Can someone give me an example of how black people identify themselves as being black? I'm not sure I'm understanding this concept.

 

[Captain M4d]

This makes sense how?
The color of your skin is nothing more than pigmentation, it's nothing worth creating an identity off of.
If we want to end racism, this is the mentality we need to foster.

This is a terrible idea. It won't end racism; it will end identity.

Black culture is extremely important to America and to somehow negate that...it just seems wrong.

 

[Captain M4d]

White culture isn't popularly referred to because it is the dominant culture of America and many other countries. It's just something so big that we can't even see it being referred to as a "culture."

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/

 

[15357]

This is actually a very important and interesting question. One that I'd like to see answered. I identify as Korean because not of my skin color and appearance but on the pride hard-wired into me by the teachings of my forebears: We stand together, united by blood, united by the common heritage of our people. Without it we shall fall and be enslaved once more.


But as for black people in the US, I view them not as black but American. There is no real "black culture" and "white culture" in America, you guys are so interwined together that it makes it impossible to completely seperate the two races.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, no, it doesn't necessarily. Just think about the distribution of the population across social class. Environments define culture, and a villa on Martha's Vinyard is probably going to produce quite a different culture to a Harlem tenement in 1971.

 

[lame-o]

Racism > Nationalism > Classism > Pride

Start at the beginning before tackling HUGE things like racism.

also, xenophobia a la district 9.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I find it interesting that throwing around the term "White culture" is much worse than throwing around the term "black culture".
If one is racist, than surely the other is as well.

You're wrong. I'd like to explore this more thoroughly later tonight, and I worry this won't be v. coherent, but for now...

It is sometimes valid to say "Black culture" because the whole point of black identity is that it is formulated as exceptional. On a certain level 'black' is still seen as being 'not white', 'other than white', where White is the default and Black is a deviation from the default. In these terms it makes more sense to talk about black culture than it does about white culture, because A) it's viewed as being distinct from the 'mainstream', B) because it's more broadly homogenous, even if realistically we might want to talk about multiple black cultures (for example, modern urban black culture is going to be different from southern slave culture in the 1850s).

I say more homogenous because the link between race and poverty means there is a broad shared experience among many blacks - one of inner city deprivation and a social environment riven with violence and prejudice. But white experience is not so homogenous. There are white people who live in that same environment. There are white people who live in a rural poor environment. There are middle class suburban white people. There are rich hollywood white people. Of course there are black people who share in these cultures, but they are not the majority in them and do not have the power of definition; these cultures are from a certain point of view not their own, and anyway not the property of their race. It makes no sense to class these as 'white cultures', not only because they are so different and varied, but also precisely because they are not defined by the racial makeup of their participants.

That's why it's kind of stupid to talk of white culture but not stupid to talk of black culture. To talk of 'white culture' is to gather in every kind of economically or socially determined culture, lump them all together, and define them by race in opposition to race. The only reason you would do this is if you saw 'white culture' as being threatened. More than that, to even talk about 'white culture' (stupid term, I shouldn't use it myself), you are going to have to cut some things out of it. It's too big and too heteregenous to classify it as WHITE CULTURE. You have to create your own edited version of it - what you see it as being - which probably involves country churches and white picket fences and no gay sex.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Ewww, EWWW, that post initially began with "I'll explain more thoroughly later" oh god I'm so sorry that is just the most patronising thing :/

 

[Captain M4d]

Dude, you explained it better than I could.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Although its certainly not to the same extent, I found in Japan white people are treated differently. When I visited, we always found it very difficult to hail a cab, because the cab drivers would just ignore us. We were always sort of a zoo there (people would constantly stare at us), and when we stayed in a hotel (a Ryokan), we were heavily scrutinized for our ignorence of their traditions, whereas Japanese kids would run around screaming and being jackasses, and no-one cared at all.

Meh, the Japanese have always been insular and vaugely racist to everyone, not just whites.

 

[unozero]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1084394769627714346&hl=en#

 

[Wanted Bob]

Meh, the Japanese have always been insular and vaugely racist to everyone, not just whites.

Thats true, though I think the "being a zoo" part happens more often with white people than other ethnicities. You are right though, most of that prejudice can be towards anyone who isnt Japanese.

 

[unozero]

What most people perceive as racial identity is formed by the environment people live in.
for example Irish immigrants in New York etc.

 

[Xevrex]

One question I don't understand is why they keep referring to it as "black culture" simply because the culture, rap/hip-hop/R&B culture, has spread to many white people as well, especially white adolescents. I personally view the culture as destructive because it places such a high emphasis on a dangerous and seemingly uneducated lifestyle: "gangster" lifestyle. People alluding to a "black culture" could be underlying racism, where those that use the term "black culture" are looking for someone to blame for the spread of "gang" culture. Blacks use the term to promote unity and because of the supremacy "wall" that separates whites and blacks today.

 

[MiccyNarc]

This is a terrible idea. It won't end racism; it will end identity.

Black culture is extremely important to America and to somehow negate that...it just seems wrong.

As soon as you start hailing the virtues of a race, it will legitimize those who hail the vices.
Negating the differences/culture is a compromise you'll have to make if you want to get rid of racism.
Do you want a peaceful homogenized society or do you want a diverse society where the people are constantly at odds with each other? Those are the options you're dealing with.

 

[Captain M4d]

As soon as you start hailing the virtues of a race, it will legitimize those who hail the vices.
Negating the differences/culture is a compromise you'll have to make if you want to get rid of racism.
Do you want a peaceful homogenized society or do you want a diverse society where the people are constantly at odds with each other? Those are the options you're dealing with.

You are giving the world an ultimatum: lose your pride and identity or else face hate and destruction. I don't believe the world is as black and white as you propose.

I'm going to ask my friend Ally what she thinks about all of this, because she is black and has a lot of good insights into race, diversity, etc.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

As soon as you start hailing the virtues of a race, it will legitimize those who hail the vices.
Negating the differences/culture is a compromise you'll have to make if you want to get rid of racism.
Do you want a peaceful homogenized society or do you want a diverse society where the people are constantly at odds with each other? Those are the options you're dealing with.

I think that's a false choice. I only wish I had more time to think about this today though.

First of all I just want to say that I hate the idea of living in a monoculture. I think homogenisation is bad for humanity and bad for the world in the long run. Diversity is important. Arguably, monocultures are more prone to problems, because if something can affect one part of it, then the whole can be affected, where as a diverse culture is going to be more robust.

Diversity doesn't inherently cause problems. But people's attitudes do, and that's what needs to be worked on. I'd say that taking away diversity to stop problems that surround it, is like taking toys away from children to stop them arguing over who plays with what. Ultimately, you need to teach the child to play fair.

And I don't think you'll ever really eliminate diversity to the point that everyone is exactly the same; if nothing else, we'll always have geographical differences.

It's possible to be diverse and relatively peaceful. In fact, it happens most of the time I think. Most people aren't actively hurting and killing one another, in spite of their differences. And a few people are always going to be at odds with one another, regardless

This post went all over the place because I'm in a hurry to finish off some work. I should probably have just put it off until later, but I wanted to say my bit :arms:

I think diverse cultures are a good thing, even if they exist somewhat arbitrarily, it's just more interesting

 

[schlitzer]

re: Negating the differences/culture is a compromise you'll have to make if you want to get rid of racism.

I think the first step to take in order to get rid of racism is to realize that what we perceive as race is just socially constructed (don't have the time and grasp of the English language to explain this now - though from what I read in this thread most people here seem to hold this opinion anyway, I might get some links if someone disagrees and wants arguments). Black / white / whatever culture isn't about pigmentation, it's about socialization.

Then all that "but that race is just inferior / superior" bullshit loses ground anyway, and we can move on to examine the differences between (perceived) races on a whole other level: question why they are there; if and why anyone would want them; if and how they are the cause of / caused by power imbalance; how they intersect with social constructs of other things such as gender, dis/ability, ...; etc.

Negating that differences do exist right now only helps those in the privileged position (ie white people). This way, whiteness (and the oppression of everything that is not white that is inherent in the concept) remains invisible and unquestioned, "blackness" - or generally otherness - remains discriminated against. Humans build their understanding through words/signs and actions (or more generally speaking: symbols), so if we aren't allowed to speak of something, we can't figure it out, and if we can't figure something out, it is impossible to change. That probably wasn't very convincing, I guess there's a lot more to say on how the invisibility of whiteness helps it's dominion, but I... just don't know enough?