Believe in Evolution?

Hazar

Hazar

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Well, at least listen to this and further expand your knowledge, even if you don't believe in his conclusions and beliefs scattered througout the talk.
 
I've listened to a 15 hour seminar just like this...
::shivers::

Stupid as hell

I wouldn't mind it... but bad science like this is leading to a less informed public
 
I've believed in evolution since elementary school, when my Catholic teachings stopped making sense.

It was about the same I stopped believing in Santa Claus.

I made my own belief of Intelligent Evolution of Design to maintain a forgiving, neutral position as there is not enough physical evidence for anyone to prove anything.
 
People who don't understand how something as complex as an Eye could evolve are basically proof of evolution themselves.
 
Yes, the eye evolved to be most sensitive to green light - the most prominent radiation wavelength from the Sun.
 
what's that argument is called...irreducible complexity...or something...?

I went to a Christian school, and i just remember hearing a lot about it. It's like, the eye has X number of parts that all work together, however subtract any one of the X parts, and your left with a functionless blob. Therefore evolution can't occur since, evolving X-1 parts would not be advantageous in any way, and you can't evolve X parts all at once.
 
Parrot of doom said:
People who don't understand how something as complex as an Eye could evolve are basically proof of evolution themselves.
Click to expand...
More like devolution...
 
Just please read this book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393315703/103-5067021-6047818?v=glance&n=283155
You can easly find it in your local library, it exactly adresses the kind of questions posed by ID or any other creatonist.
And even if evolution theorists did not have an anwser, it would not give any ID member or creatonist credit, simply because unlike real scientists they do not explore further what they can't understand in an effort to solve it they simply call it god.
 
We are all just offspring of short recoil and Spaghetti Monster tbh
 
There's nothing to believe. Evolution is fact.

Evolution as the origin of all life, though--well, still waiting for conclusive data. But it does make sense.
 
I rather belive in Evolution then Religion...therefore....Revolution is teh WIN
 
so has anyone actually listened to it before stating their opinion?

btw kirov, no I don't have a transcript :(
 
I'm a graduate student in the field of genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry. Plus I take a lot of social anthropology and psychology classes, trying to understand the stupidity of man :D. I listened to the speech for about 5 min, and I knew right away that the guy was no good.

The watch argument is totally outdated. A counterargument (equally ridiculous as the argument itself). We now know that all of life's basic components can occur naturally, and the only "miraculous part" was that they came together in a self reproducing polymer within a lipid bilayer. The same argument can be made with the watch. If you have all the seperate components of the watch made naturally, then sooner or later, through a billion different collision, forces, pushes, and so forth, you might end up with a funcitonal watch.

Second, the speecher is overly complicated and uses to many big words. Good argument have to be simple and right to be point, and most importantly for science, have no shred of philophy in them. Just facts and educated guesses based on these facts. To use a simple watch as a philosophical argument for a huge field full of millions upon millions of correlating facts is absurd.

I have not heard the whole speech, most likly because I know where'll he's heading. He will undoubtably point out all the short falling of evolution, the inconsistencies, the guesses, the exceptions, the ambiguities, the inreconcialable differences (see, big words, drawout sentence, no point, and horribly spelled :D). What people have to understand about evolution is that it is a field of science, and most likely the hardest and most intricate of them all. To have a theory explaining it is a proof of man's intelligence. However, that theory is yet in its infancy. I could write millions of paragraphs of the scientific arguments about evolution.

And lastly, nothing in evolution says that there is no god. All evolution (and science in general) say is that the bible is wrong in many many many respects. Most religious people have recognized this a long time ago, and have been shoved on the defensive, trying to disprove everything about science, without reaffirming any of the many theories proposed by the bible.
 
Roland Deschain said:
I'm a graduate student in the field of genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry. Plus I take a lot of social anthropology and psychology classes, trying to understand the stupidity of man :D. I listened to the speech for about 5 min, and I knew right away that the guy was no good.

The watch argument is totally outdated. A counterargument (equally ridiculous as the argument itself). We now know that all of life's basic components can occur naturally, and the only "miraculous part" was that they came together in a self reproducing polymer within a lipid bilayer. The same argument can be made with the watch. If you have all the seperate components of the watch made naturally, then sooner or later, through a billion different collision, forces, pushes, and so forth, you might end up with a funcitonal watch.

Second, the speecher is overly complicated and uses to many big words. Good argument have to be simple and right to be point, and most importantly for science, have no shred of philophy in them. Just facts and educated guesses based on these facts. To use a simple watch as a philosophical argument for a huge field full of millions upon millions of correlating facts is absurd.

I have not heard the whole speech, most likly because I know where'll he's heading. He will undoubtably point out all the short falling of evolution, the inconsistencies, the guesses, the exceptions, the ambiguities, the inreconcialable differences (see, big words, drawout sentence, no point, and horribly spelled :D). What people have to understand about evolution is that it is a field of science, and most likely the hardest and most intricate of them all. To have a theory explaining it is a proof of man's intelligence. However, that theory is yet in its infancy. I could write millions of paragraphs of the scientific arguments about evolution.

And lastly, nothing in evolution says that there is no god. All evolution (and science in general) say is that the bible is wrong in many many many respects. Most religious people have recognized this a long time ago, and have been shoved on the defensive, trying to disprove everything about science, without reaffirming any of the many theories proposed by the bible.
Click to expand...

you're wrong on most of your points. He doesn't use big words, unless you consider multiple-syllable words "big"

and no, you don't know where he's going with it. listen to the whole thing.
 
Hazar said:
you're wrong on most of your points. He doesn't use big words, unless you consider multiple-syllable words "big"

and no, you don't know where he's going with it. listen to the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I would love to, but I simply don't have the time. I've done it a million times over with most of my religious friends. And it comes simply down to this: evolution works, from antibiotics, to medicine, to genetics, to humans, to ever single disease.

200 years ago, you bring your sick kid to a priest, he blesses him, and 1/10 times the kid turns gets healthy. Prove of god right there. Today, you bring your kid to the doctor, the doctor touches and probes him and 95/100 times the kid is healthy. But this argument is purely for show, and works more on the emotions of people than for scientific proove (couldn't resist).

And unless you or somebody can come up with a factual experiment that actually disproves the basic underlying statement of evolution, I'll stop writing in this topic (look it up if you don't know it, most people actually don't and the speaker has the audacity to start his counterargument without defining; how are we supposed to know if he is talking about the right thing).

If people actually come up with good arguments, I'll be happy to argue.

PS: And please, no watch arguments. I do not have enough imagination in all my body to see how a watch can disprove evolution.

PPS: And please, please, please, for all those people that are truely agains evolution, read up on what it actually means (not Darwin's postulates, they are too arcane). I have not come across a single person who said "evolution is wrong" and then could tell me what it is.

PPPS: One last thing. You said I was wrong. I'll agree with you that he does not use big words, but he's too wordy for my taste. What about my other points though?
 
Evolution makes sense, its logical, the evidence in the ground and in front of our eyes, and the changing nature of the world to the changing environment seems to prove that evolution via natural selection occured and is still occuring. Just because a flagellum needs 40 proteins to form it, it doesn't make it impossible to put together. Theres always a link, even if its undiscovered yet, and not knowing the link doesn't disprove evolution.

I know i may live in a fantasy world, but are people making counter-arguments for the sakes of it these days? Evolution which is accepted by nearly the world, is doubted by random people seemingly looking for something to fight against. Why? Next there will be debate over the existance of Europe or something equally as crazy. Time wasters is what they are.
 
Nope, I tried to listen to him, I tried just to be fair and open to argument. But I couldn't. I got past the watch part (see previous post), I got past the complexity part (complexity does not necessitate concious design, he is talking philosophy and scientists fought for a long time to get shun philosophy from its mids).

But the thing that convinced me that his speech was no good is when he talked about the laws of thermodynamics. He said that evolution contradiced these laws (especially the second law), and therefore evolution is wrong. EVOLUTION DOES NOT VIOLATE THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS. I am gonna recapitulate a theme I keep stressing in this argument: if you want to argume about science, KNOW the science. The speacher conviniently never found it fit to actually define the second law. He said that life creates order (lowers entropy) and that second law says that entropy has to go up, both of which are true. But to say that the former contradicts the latter shows that he does not know what he is talking about. The secon law states, that the entropy HAS to increase within the system; the system is the operative word. Local decreases of entropy are perfectly allowed, as long as a correspondigly larger increase of entorpy is observed within the same system (for evolution, the system is the earth).

I'll leave it up to you to do the math and show that every single thing that an organism does to decrease the entropy of the system also results in a correspondigly greater increase of the system somewhere else. Hard, **** yeah, but if a regligious person could prove that this was not true, evolution would finally be in a fix.
 
Hazar said:
you're wrong on most of your points. He doesn't use big words, unless you consider multiple-syllable words "big"

and no, you don't know where he's going with it. listen to the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I'm sure a graduate of genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry is wrong and doesn't know where a man talking about evolution is going :rolleyes:
 
I believe that a superpower.. something.. I dont know.. lets call it GOD, created the concept of Evolution, and then everything went it's path. I believe in evolution, but I believe something created evolution cause I dont believe that evolution evolutionned in the evolution we know. I hate religions, but im not atheist. I beleive there is something we can't still understand yet but when evolution will make us super intelligent light spots flying around :)P), maybe then we will understand the concept of GOD, and the origins of life, and the source of evolution.
 
Speaking of thermodynamics, new energy is constantly being introduced into the system, I'll let you guess where it comes from.

Hint: It's the Sun
 
really dont think god exists. nothing in this world is perfect, the human body is nowhere near perfection, we still biologically and mentally work in the same ways we did in the stone age.
 
Anyone who says that evolution is disproven by the 2nd Law does not know enough about Thermodyanmics in the first place.

The Earth is not a closed system.

I believe MC Hawking says it better in "F*ck the creationists.mp3"
 
CrazyHarij said:
really dont think god exists. nothing in this world is perfect, the human body is nowhere near perfection, we still biologically and mentally work in the same ways we did in the stone age.
Click to expand...

Nothing in the Universe is perfect. And yes we do think differently than the stone age people.
 
People in the past, and even today, have been so quick to explain things they don't understand as being "God's work". The more science expands, the more we are finding out about ourselves and the world around us. Religion seems to be very limiting.

Most, if not all, of the elements that make up our bodies and other organic material can be found throughout space in various celestial objects. We see evolution in nearly everything in the sky. Everything from the way a galaxy forms, the way a star is born/dies, and even the way planets form. It's the accumulation of matter. That's all we are, an accumulation of matter.
 
Sorry, I'm not gonna listen to more than 2 minutes of that. If you have somthing to read, then I'll read it.

I like his definative statements that "Darwin was, indeed, wrong!"

How scientific lol!
 
I found a nice site that clearly states (in basic genetic terms) what evolution is and why most of the popular creatanist arguments again evolution fall flat because they do not address evolution. Its a nice read, especially for people that do not want to get too technical :D

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

And to kinda rub it in, here's the original creatanist argument that put forth the above coutner argument: http://www.trueorigin.org/isakrbtl.asp
 
I went on a rant earlier today about Creationism. I was having a nice chat with some friends, it came up and, even though no-one was advocating it, I suddenly went into this tirade about it; how it was nonsense; how the idea of teaching it in science classes is absurd; how people vehemently believing in it as fact despite all the observable evidence is very peculiar; how people of science who believe in ID are completely ridiculous and - well, EVERYTHING.
Yes, the Earth is 6000 years old. Yup, dinosaurs trotted along happily with Adam & Eve. *Shudders*
 
The Monkey said:
Evolution isn't a theory, it's a fact.
Click to expand...
Actually, its a theory
Theory - A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

The problem, however, lies in the general public's lack of knowledge about the distinction between a hypothesis and a theory
Creationist speakers tend to take advantage of this, sadly

(Hypothesis - A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation)
 
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