Believe in Evolution?

[Raziaar]

sure it would ..most religions presuppose that their faithful are the true chosen people or that humans are the center of the universe ..an alien lifeform would be at odds with this philosophy

It may disqualify those particular religions, but it does not disqualify the concept of god.

 

[CptStern]

yes it does ..it discounts all versions of a personal god

 

[Steve]

So one god can't create two sentient species?

 

[Raziaar]

So one god can't create two sentient species?

Exactly. How does it negate god?

 

[CptStern]

So one god can't create two sentient species?

did I say that? no, but it seems most religions work that way ..take christianity for instance. They believe that man is the centre of the universe, that man was made in god's own image ..where does that leave an alien civilization? If god made the heaven's and the earth surely he would have created the aliens as well. ..so why werent they included into the equation?

"you are the chosen people, but so are those tripod aliens from planet X3.54346"

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Exactly. How does it negate god?

He said a "personal god", AKA the god described in almost all world religions who caters to humans only.

 

[Raziaar]

He said a "personal god", AKA the god described in almost all world religions who caters to humans only.

Yes. and I said that!

It may disqualify those particular religions, but it does not disqualify the concept of god.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

So there's nothing to discuss. Stern's point is that the religions are wrong, and you agree.

 

[Steve]

did I say that? no, but it seems most religions work that way ..take christianity for instance. They believe that man is the centre of the universe, that man was made in god's own image ..where does that leave an alien civilization? If god made the heaven's and the earth surely he would have created the aliens as well. ..so why werent they included into the equation?

"you are the chosen people, but so are those tripod aliens from planet X3.54346"

Well, that's the convenience of an infinite, omnipotent, god. Exists at all times and places at once, and hey! He can have more than one image if he wants.

...most Christians wouldn't like this idea, though, yeah. But I'm of the belief that if they want to believe in an omnipotent God, they need to let him do want he wants. BUT ANYWAY.

But how is it any different from the Jews saying they're the chosen ones and the Christians aren't?

 

[Raziaar]

Well, that's the convenience of an infinite, omnipotent, god. Exists at all times and places at once, and hey! He can have more than one image if he wants.

...most Christians wouldn't like this idea, though, yeah. But I'm of the belief that if they want to believe in an omnipotent God, they need to let him do want he wants. BUT ANYWAY.

But how is it any different from the Jews saying they're the chosen ones and the Christians aren't?

I am christian, and I believe the Jews are the chosen ones.

 

[Steve]

Well...I didn't say all Christians and Jews hate each other.


Awww, Raziaar. I missed your joyful dancing bovine avatar.

 

[Raziaar]

Well...I didn't say all Christians and Jews hate each other.


Awww, Raziaar. I missed your joyful dancing bovine avatar.

I missed your beautiful little pink blue alien robot thingy from adult swim.

 

[Steve]

Tr0n needs to bring his back...or is he banned again?

 

[CptStern]

Well, that's the convenience of an infinite, omnipotent, god. Exists at all times and places at once, and hey! He can have more than one image if he wants.

...most Christians wouldn't like this idea, though, yeah. But I'm of the belief that if they want to believe in an omnipotent God, they need to let him do want he wants. BUT ANYWAY.

But how is it any different from the Jews saying they're the chosen ones and the Christians aren't?

but they are the chosen ones and the christians arent ...just like the christians believe they are the chosen ones, not the jews

mecha: you have a real knack for reading between the lines :E :thumbs:

 

[Steve]

but they are the chosen ones and the christians arent ...just like the christians believe they are the chosen ones, not the jews

mecha: you have a real knack for reading between the lines :E :thumbs:

Right. So how is this some sort of revolution-causing idea in religion?

 

[Raziaar]

Tr0n needs to bring his back...or is he banned again?

For you, my friend.

but they are the chosen ones and the christians arent ...just like the christians believe they are the chosen ones, not the jews

I dunno... the christians I associate with(my family and such), believe the Jews are the chosen ones. We christians still have the ability to be saved, though, we just have to do differently than the Jews.

 

[Steve]

Oh, no. I couldn't disgrace the sanctity of the dancing cow by putting it in my avatar slot. Thanks, though.

 

[Raziaar]

Oh, no. I couldn't disgrace the sanctity of the dancing cow by putting it in my avatar slot. Thanks, though.

I wasn't asking you to <laughs> I just color coded it to your avatar. hehehe.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

mecha: you have a real knack for reading between the lines :E :thumbs:

You kinda need that skill in today's world, because people are constantly asking you to sign the contract before reading it, metaphorically speaking.

 

[CptStern]

Right. So how is this some sort of revolution-causing idea in religion?

I dont follow you ..come again?


mecha: I'm going to use that quote in the future "people are constantly asking you to sign the contract before reading it" ...dont worry, I'll credit you

 

[63]

What if you forget he said it?

 

[Steve]

I dont follow you ..come again?

Sorry, I don't think I put that too well.

Okay, you're saying that the existence of an alien species would disprove god (or at least a personal god) because a "you're the chosen ones but so are the goo-bags from planet Goatse."

I'm saying it wouldn't. Different religions would treat the aliens the same way that they treat religions other than their own. "They couldn't possibly be chosen by God, because they're not us."

It wouldn't disprove anything to believers.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It wouldn't disprove anything to believers.

Except the mega-believers who take the bible literally in that there is only life on earth.

Heck, there are still people who believe in a geocentric universe.

I wonder how aliens would work without original sin...

Maybe since paradise wasn't fuxed up by some batty dame, that's why they got free UFOes?

 

[Steve]

Oh, no. I'm sure the fundamentalists would find some way around it.

 

[CptStern]

Sorry, I don't think I put that too well.

Okay, you're saying that the existence of an alien species would disprove god (or at least a personal god) because a "you're the chosen ones but so are the goo-bags from planet Goatse."

I'm saying it wouldn't. Different religions would treat the aliens the same way that they treat religions other than their own. "They couldn't possibly be chosen by God, because they're not us."

It wouldn't disprove anything to believers.

yes it would in the sense that most religions posit the idea that we are alone in this universe that god made the heavens and earth just for them ..but an alien race would throw a wrench into this belief system as it holds no room for those life forms that are outside it's own scope of understanding

 

[Raziaar]

yes it would in the sense that most religions posit the idea that we are alone in this universe that god made the heavens and earth just for them ..but an alien race would throw a wrench into this belief system as it holds no room for those life forms that are outside it's own scope of understanding

You'd be surprised how many religious people keep an open mind in regards to life on other planets.

 

[CptStern]

yes but those people are usually those that are on the fringe of non-believers/believers

 

[Steve]

yes it would in the sense that most religions posit the idea that we are alone in this universe that god made the heavens and earth just for them ..but an alien race would throw a wrench into this belief system as it holds no room for those life forms that are outside it's own scope of understanding

Whatever dude. You know they would find some sort of way out of it.

This would totally undermine their argument, no doubt, but they wouldn't stop it.

...of course I don't think for a second that you believe they would.

Or hey...maybe they'll just admit they were wrong about that. So really, all it does is disprove one belief. And for a Christian, sharing shouldn't be hard. What am I even talking about? I'm tired.

 

[Apos]

However, if we weren’t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present? It would be great to have a time machine so we could know for sure about past events.

This view is known as a variant on "last-Thursdayism." It sounds plausible at first, until you realize that the logic works just as well to justify believing that the entire universe started last Thursday, complete with all evidence to the contrary, including memories. In short, it's bullplop. While people can pose as if they believed it, they don't really.

Evolutionists have certain beliefs about the past/present that they presuppose, e.g. no God (or at least none who performed acts of special creation), so they build a different way of thinking to interpret the evidence of the present.

Again, this is more BS. Scientists use EVIDENCE, not beliefs, to justify their take on things.

Thus, when Christians and non-Christians argue about the evidence, in reality they are arguing about their interpretations based on their presuppositions.

No. Creationists are rejecting the idea of using evidence, suggesting instead that we use dogma and blind faith to judge truth rather than the same standard they otherwise accept everywhere else: evidence.

Otherwise, creationists would have to deny the usefulness of the court system. Sure, all the "evidence" says that Jim killed his wife. But we don't have a TIME MACHINE. We can't be sure. And when I prayed to God, he TOLD ME that Jim was innocent! So all that evidence... that's just a bunch of crazy ASSUMPTIONS!

These two people are arguing about the same evidence, but they are looking at the evidence through different glasses.

Again, no. Creationists are constantly, perpetually trying to discount or spread ignorance and misinformation about the evidence. It's a characteristic factor to what they do in these debates. So it's simply not the case that both sides look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions.

Source

From, of course, a creationist website.

 

[Raziaar]

yes but those people are usually those that are on the fringe of non-believers/believers

How do you know that?

My dad is quite a religious guy... but he believes in aliens.

 

[CptStern]

from experience ..my parents believe in a christian god, but not for a minute do they believe in the creation myth

 

[Direwolf]

Way back when many religions supposed that their people were the chosen ones be they Jewish, Robots, or Spaghetti Men. As these groups spread out and came into contact with other societies and civilizations it forced a change for their religion to incorporate not just the existence of an entire world, but the existence of other religions that their beliefs had never involved. Nowdays its a no brainer to accept the fact that theres people out there not of your religion.

Contact with another alien species would probably just force a similar gradual shift. Their existence would just be incorporated. In fact, with the events of the last century in space, the stage may already be set for the acceptance of such things.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

from experience ..my parents believe in a christian god, but not for a minute do they believe in the creation myth

OHNOES STEREOTYPE DISPELLATION!

-Angry Lawyer

 

[CptStern]

Way back when many religions supposed that their people were the chosen ones be they Jewish, Robots, or Spaghetti Men. As these groups spread out and came into contact with other societies and civilizations it forced a change for their religion to incorporate not just the existence of an entire world, but the existence of other religions that their beliefs had never involved. Nowdays its a no brainer to accept the fact that theres people out there not of your religion.

Contact with another alien species would probably just force a similar gradual shift. Their existence would just be incorporated. In fact, with the events of the last century in space, the stage may already be set for the acceptance of such things.

I dont know ..I see religion taking a general step backward (intolerance) not forward

 

[Raziaar]

You're intolerant for not tolerating religion. :stare:

 

[Steve]

You're intolerant for not tolerating his intolerance.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I just hate you all, and am intolerant.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Steve]

At least you don't discriminate, Lawyer. That's the beauty of all-encompassing hate.

 

[CptStern]

You're intolerant for not tolerating religion. :stare:

ya that's it :upstare:

I really couldnt care less what people believe in ..it's when their belief/faith/religion interferes with my life that I start to care



Angry Lawyer is a equal oportunity hater, but we all know better; he's one of those rare huggable lawyers that you always thought was a story made up to scare small children

 

[Raziaar]

He doesn't hate me. Thus, he discriminates against the rest of you.