Big time lawsuits brewing between Valve and Vivendi

[WhiteBoy]

Also, there will be titles in the future that won't be published by Vivendi. For example, Day of Defeat was published by Activision. Providing they welcome the Steam distribution system, they may publish future Valve titles for them and allow Valve to distribute across Steam.

Either that or Valve may have to start of a fresh publishing deal for future non-Half-Life titles with a publisher where Steam is in the equation right from the start.

Does anyone know if Valve buying Vivendi out of the Half-Life rights would be an option?

E.g. Valve turning around to Vivendi and saying "We'll give you $x if you give up all rights to the Half-Life franchise".

It'd have to be a massive amount of money for Vivendi to do this I suppose, but is it possible/worth it for Valve if they are going to be able to pimp Steam distribution and double the money they'd normally get from retail?

That would have to be a number beyond what I could imagine. Half-Life 2 will easilly sell as many, if not more, copies as the Original, and I do not believe Valve would want to dish that amount of money, on a game that has yet to be released.

 

[el Chi]

It'd be such a shame if Vivendi won the rights and then decided to squeeze every last dollar they could out of the Half-Life series. The idea that it's a trilogy is great, but Vivendi pushing for anything more than that would just be an insult.

 

[smsKONG]

As far as I can tell VU doesn't actually hold the rights for half-life.
At the bottom of vivendis own site it states clearly that half-life and the half-life symbol are trademarks of the valve corporation. If my drug adled brain remembers rightly, the whole valve threatening to delay thing was to get a new contract in which the IP rights to HL were handed back- Which sierra did..... It was only after a year and a half of ongoing lawsuits from valve (for not paying royalties and delaying releases),that vivendi piped up and filed their own lawsuit claiming IP rights back.

To me it seems like VU got owned and is now trying to turn back the clock and say that valve pulled the wool over sierras eyes in regards to the whole online distribution thing. But at the end of the day, regardless of how Gabe pitched it to them (online distribution not financially viable), they still signed it all back to valve, and it would seem a little late in the day to be crying out "we we're nieve" and "valve misled us". Sierra may not be around anymore, but vivendi still has to carry the can on what was done. If the information we've been presented with, is the full facts, then VU don't have a leg to stand on....(I said IF....god only knows what other underhand tactics were used by either party. But it does seem a bit rich doesn't it- a publisher feeling hard done by....Haha don't make me laugh )

 

[ImJacksAmygdala]

As far as I can tell VU doesn't actually hold the rights for half-life.
At the bottom of vivendis own site it states clearly that half-life and the half-life symbol are trademarks of the valve corporation. If my drug adled brain remembers rightly, the whole valve threatening to delay thing was to get a new contract in which the IP rights to HL were handed back- Which sierra did..... It was only after a year and a half of ongoing lawsuits from valve (for not paying royalties and delaying releases),that vivendi piped up and filed their own lawsuit claiming IP rights back.

To me it seems like VU got owned and is now trying to turn back the clock and say that valve pulled the wool over sierras eyes in regards to the whole online distribution thing. But at the end of the day, regardless of how Gabe pitched it to them (online distribution not financially viable), they still signed it all back to valve, and it would seem a little late in the day to be crying out "we we're nieve" and "valve misled us". Sierra may not be around anymore, but vivendi still has to carry the can on what was done. If the information we've been presented with, is the full facts, then VU don't have a leg to stand on....(I said IF....god only knows what other underhand tactics were used by either party. But it does seem a bit rich doesn't it- a publisher feeling hard done by....Haha don't make me laugh )

You have it exactly right. Thats exactly what I gathered happened from the reports and I think your right with what it means.

Unfortunately lawyers and judges are now involved so we can throw out all common sense and rational logic of whats actually right and wrong and we must now enter a limbo world of gray area fuzzy logic much more simular to the twighlight zone where weeks become months and months become years....

Its all about who has the deepest pocket book now.... Or who has more to lose by delaying HL2 which is even better for us.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

As far as I can tell VU doesn't actually hold the rights for half-life.
At the bottom of vivendis own site it states clearly that half-life and the half-life symbol are trademarks of the valve corporation. If my drug adled brain remembers rightly, the whole valve threatening to delay thing was to get a new contract in which the IP rights to HL were handed back- Which sierra did..... It was only after a year and a half of ongoing lawsuits from valve (for not paying royalties and delaying releases),that vivendi piped up and filed their own lawsuit claiming IP rights back.

To me it seems like VU got owned and is now trying to turn back the clock and say that valve pulled the wool over sierras eyes in regards to the whole online distribution thing. But at the end of the day, regardless of how Gabe pitched it to them (online distribution not financially viable), they still signed it all back to valve, and it would seem a little late in the day to be crying out "we we're nieve" and "valve misled us". Sierra may not be around anymore, but vivendi still has to carry the can on what was done. If the information we've been presented with, is the full facts, then VU don't have a leg to stand on....(I said IF....god only knows what other underhand tactics were used by either party. But it does seem a bit rich doesn't it- a publisher feeling hard done by....Haha don't make me laugh )

Bravo, heres to VALVe winning this suit :cheers:

 

[oldagerocker]

but, would vivendi release hl2 regardless of the court case? or would they wait to see the results? by not releasing the game, surely they'd make less money as HL2 will have less of an impact on the gaming scene with Stalker and other next generation games coming out.
Or is the Court case intertwinned with Hl2 so much taht they can't release until it's settled?
VU will lose allot of money from steam purchases.

 

[chriso20]

what happened to one group of people MAKING a game, another DISTRIBUTING and another going "HAH, yes, very good sir *mooneeeyyyssss!*" ?

I liked those days damn you american "sue ur ass!" people. You ruined the world

 

[oldagerocker]

Hopefully Steam sales won't be stopped and valve can release the game whenever they like. Steam is costing them allot of money to run i should think, so they want the game released asap. Screw boxes, everyone go Steam, valve can distibute there own games

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I don't know about you guys, but VUG will still get about 90% of HL2 sales. I myself am getting the CE, I know others are too, I don't see why VUG is worrying about it.

 

[smsKONG]

You have it exactly right. Thats exactly what I gathered happened from the reports and I think your right with what it means.

Unfortunately lawyers and judges are now involved so we can throw out all common sense and rational logic of whats actually right and wrong and we must now enter a limbo world of gray area fuzzy logic much more simular to the twighlight zone where weeks become months and months become years....

Its all about who has the deepest pocket book now.... Or who has more to lose by delaying HL2 which is even better for us.

Well if we all boycott VU "products", then it shouldn't be too long before they get a rather large hole in their pockets. Especially given the rather shaky financial ground they've been on in recent times.

:E

But like you said, it's down to the courts now. Which means we can throw sense and reason to the wind....

Hopefully it's a yankee judge who don't like dem damn frenchies

 

[ImJacksAmygdala]

LOL! I was hoping he was a yank too.... There is alot of french product boycotting going around so I wouldn't be surprised if the actual judge has a biased based on world politics... LOL I just can't say it any more PC than that...

 

[smsKONG]

I don't know about you guys, but VUG will still get about 90% of HL2 sales. I myself am getting the CE, I know others are too, I don't see why VUG is worrying about it.

This is more than likely true (atleast it would have been...you can scratch 1 sale off VUs list tho- mine). However I think VU realised what a cash cow the entire HL series will be (HL3 plus I don't know how it stands with the source ports etc..), and regardless of HL2 sales- they want in on all the sales for aslong as the HL saga continues.

Also as has already been stated on here- I don't think Half-Life 2 will be forced to delay by the court, as sales are recorded and any money owed could be payed after the court rules. However that doesn't rule out VU delaying release as they posture against valve... it's probably going to get very childish between the 2 of them, lets just hope they have enough sense not to be such tossers and get the game out ASAP

 

[cadaveca]

To me it seems like VU got owned and is now trying to turn back the clock and say that valve pulled the wool over sierras eyes in regards to the whole online distribution thing. But at the end of the day, regardless of how Gabe pitched it to them (online distribution not financially viable), they still signed it all back to valve, and it would seem a little late in the day to be crying out "we we're nieve" and "valve misled us". Sierra may not be around anymore, but vivendi still has to carry the can on what was done. If the information we've been presented with, is the full facts, then VU don't have a leg to stand on....(I said IF....god only knows what other underhand tactics were used by either party. But it does seem a bit rich doesn't it- a publisher feeling hard done by....Haha don't make me laugh )

VU's leg is that they/Sierra were misled in the viability of online distrobution, and their proof is that the highly successful STEAM had already been in the development works(meaning that valve DEFINATELY had plans for online sales at some point). They also claim that the delay of over a year, from last year to when the game WILL be released, was manufactured by Valve so that Steam would benefit them more. Vivendi claims "we(Sierra) were not given full disclosure as to the econmonic viability of online sales, nor the development of technology to make it viable, and develpment was done while under contract with us." Kinda.
Vivendi have quite a legitimate claim....if Valve delayed work on HL2 so they could fix steam, and vivendi proves it, valve stands to get nothing from the online sales of HL2. it's very easy for vivendi to blame a huge loss in revunue during the first half of this year on the delay of HL2, especially seeing how the sales from the first week should net about 210m euros.

 

[smsKONG]

LOL! I was hoping he was a yank too.... There is alot of french product boycotting going around so I wouldn't be surprised if the actual judge has a biased based on world politics... LOL I just can't say it any more PC than that...

LOL NOBODY MENTION THE WAR (or nuclear testing in the pacific..)hahahaahahahahaha


BYE-bye vivendi :E

 

[cadaveca]

the theory that vivendi cannot release the game and valve has the upper hand right now is correct. the motions filed basically hold valve to their contract with vivendi, and don't allow them to switch publishers. valve HAD every right, at least until the new filing, to take HL2 to another publisher, and let them distribute it, even though they have already delivered an RC to vivendi. and should the said publisher get the game on shelves before vivendi can......
how can valve do this? HL2 still remain their IP, and they fulfulled their contract by delivering a finished copy to VUG. seeing how the still own HL2, and vivendi only has ditribution rights to it( and only partial), it would be easy for valve to ditribute it another way. they could very easliy flood stores with "ATI coupons" at a lowered price, and countles people would buy it just to b able to fulfill what has become an addiction to them.

has anyone looked to see who from vavle and who from vivendi have been in norway lately?

 

[The Mullinator]

VU's leg is that they/Sierra were misled in the viability of online distrobution, and their proof is that the highly successful STEAM had already been in the development works(meaning that valve DEFINATELY had plans for online sales at some point). They also claim that the delay of over a year, from last year to when the game WILL be released, was manufactured by Valve so that Steam would benefit them more. Vivendi claims "we(Sierra) were not given full disclosure as to the econmonic viability of online sales, nor the development of technology to make it viable, and develpment was done while under contract with us." Kinda.
Vivendi have quite a legitimate claim....if Valve delayed work on HL2 so they could fix steam, and vivendi proves it, valve stands to get nothing from the online sales of HL2. it's very easy for vivendi to blame a huge loss in revunue during the first half of this year on the delay of HL2, especially seeing how the sales from the first week should net about 210m euros.

Gabe said the following "could not understand how one can make money online today," Now that was back in September of 2000, the fact is that today is not "now", in other words Gabe did not lie at all. He didn't understand how back in the year 2000 money could be made of of Steam but since today is not the year 2000 that argument is completely useless.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Vivendi claims "we(Sierra) were not given full disclosure as to the econmonic viability of online sales, nor the development of technology to make it viable, and develpment was done while under contract with us." Kinda.
Vivendi have quite a legitimate claim....if Valve delayed work on HL2 so they could fix steam, and vivendi proves it, valve stands to get nothing from the online sales of HL2.

See there is proof on the net HL2 was not done by last september. *cough leak *cough

 

[smsKONG]

VU's leg is that they/Sierra were misled in the viability of online distrobution, and their proof is that the highly successful STEAM had already been in the development works(meaning that valve DEFINATELY had plans for online sales at some point). They also claim that the delay of over a year, from last year to when the game WILL be released, was manufactured by Valve so that Steam would benefit them more. Vivendi claims "we(Sierra) were not given full disclosure as to the econmonic viability of online sales, nor the development of technology to make it viable, and develpment was done while under contract with us." Kinda.
Vivendi have quite a legitimate claim....if Valve delayed work on HL2 so they could fix steam, and vivendi proves it, valve stands to get nothing from the online sales of HL2. it's very easy for vivendi to blame a huge loss in revunue during the first half of this year on the delay of HL2, especially seeing how the sales from the first week should net about 210m euros.

I understand the implications of what you're are saying. But anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have said at the time that it should have been expected- VU(sierra) could not have been nieve/stupid enough to believe if they gave valve rights to sell online that they wouldn't do it.

And proving that software has been intentionally delayed has got to be very difficult to do, given that software can be delayed or even written off at any time over just about anything....
And as for proving that steam itself delayed HL2, all valve has to do is show that no-one was taken off HL2 development so that they could develop steam. Also they would have to prove that the main reason steam was produced was for online sales, not easy to do when steam is already used for patching, anti-cheat, multiplayer and anti-piracy among other things, VU is not going to have an easy time of it, they would have to prove that valves first main intention was for using steam to sell. Not easy at all

[EDIT] also saying about developing steam while under contract to VU depends entirely on the contract itself.....and since valve already used activision for DoD and that steam is not a game in itself, it would seem likely the contract doesn't cover everything...

 

[cadaveca]

Gabe said the following "could not understand how one can make money online today," Now that was back in September of 2000, the fact is that today is not "now", in other words Gabe did not lie at all. He didn't understand how back in the year 2000 money could be made of of Steam but since today is not the year 2000 that argument is completely useless.

yes, i see what you are saying, and what valve is sayingtoo...
however, if it was not economically viable, then why would they continue development? and why is it that here, almost 5 years later, that HL2 is finally released?seems to me valve could have been holding back until they could get the most.

anyone check the financial status for valve's execs?

as well, if steam was develped using any money from vivendi, or any prt of it ised vivendi equipment, vivendi has a slice of the pie.
as it stands, they'll get almost 30%....they are looking for 50.

 

[The Mullinator]

yes, i see what you are saying, and what valve is sayingtoo...
however, if it was not economically viable, then why would they continue development? and why is it that here, almost 5 years later, that HL2 is finally released?seems to me valve could have been holding back until they could get the most.

anyone check the financial status for valve's execs?

as well, if steam was develped using any money from vivendi, or any prt of it ised vivendi equipment, vivendi has a slice of the pie.
as it stands, they'll get almost 30%....they are looking for 50.

Steam could have begun as something else, after all right now its mostly used as a way of playing games online that people already bought through retail, the online buying part could have been added later once they realized it was viable. Plus with the current level of graphics technology that HL2 uses I can't see how the game could have been released 3 or 4 years ago so I don't really consider the possibility of them going slow to maximize sales from Steam.

EDIT: Valve also stated that the money for developing HL2 all came from sales of HL1, and since in the past they have talked about just how intertwined Steam and HL2 are I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the money to develop Steam came from Valves own pockets as well.

 

[smsKONG]

yes, i see what you are saying, and what valve is sayingtoo...
however, if it was not economically viable, then why would they continue development? and why is it that here, almost 5 years later, that HL2 is finally released?seems to me valve could have been holding back until they could get the most.

anyone check the financial status for valve's execs?

as well, if steam was develped using any money from vivendi, or any prt of it ised vivendi equipment, vivendi has a slice of the pie.
as it stands, they'll get almost 30%....they are looking for 50.

They were saying online distribution on it's own WAS not economically viable. However as I have just stated, steam is not just about sales- it covers MP, anti-cheat, anti-piracy and patching. Plus I imagine steam itself will be viable for licensing out and making money from- as if it were an engine say...

[EDIT] listen to the mullinator - he speaks sense

 

[cadaveca]

yep..and vivendi can say TIME taken away from HL2 for steam (which is only an online thing, really), then vivendi has a claim...instead of developing steam, vavle could have been pushing a complete copy og the HL2 game...authentication and whathave you be damned. just cause valve wants to protect their ip really has no brearing to the release of a product. valve says they use it for autentication, and to prevent pirac y, but when was that written into the code?

anyway, i hope valve wins, but i think it won't be easy. i hate vivendi/nbcu....but MR Newell's tactics leave something left to be desired.

i took the money last night that i had saved for HL2 and went and bought another copy of Halo. Valve can kiss my ass when it comes to ME buying HL2....doesn't mean my wife or parents can't buy it for me!

 

[cadaveca]

See there is proof on the net HL2 was not done by last september. *cough leak *cough

shush....you can never know the truth.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

When steam first started, it was just a platform for hosting their games, like WON. They never knew this would turn into something this BIG. I still think VALVe will win, and I hope the greedy bastards die off.

 

[smsKONG]

yep..and vivendi can say TIME taken away from HL2 for steam (which is only an online thing, really), then vivendi has a claim...instead of developing steam, vavle could have been puching a complete copy og the HL2 game...authentication and whathave you be damned. just cause valve wants to protect their ip really has no brearing to the release of a product. valve says they use it for autentication, and to prevent pirac y, but when was that written into the code?

anyway, i hope valve wins, but i think it won't be easy. i hate vivendi/nbcu....but MR Newell's tactics leave something left ot be desired.

i took the money last night that i had saved for HL2 and went and bought another copy of Halo. Valve can kiss my ass when it comes to ME buying HL2....doesn't mean my wife or parents can't buy it for me!

Valve has only had 1 guy working on steam- VU would have to prove that he was taken from HL2 (and was not replaced by anyone else, or his job on HL2 was not finished when he started on steam...etc). Also since this particular claim is from VU against valve- Valve has to prove naff all, VU have to prove valve guilty not the other way round....so it is VU who will have the hardest time methinks.

[EDIT] authentication and protection was in steam at beta release.....and sales were not........

 

[cadaveca]

Steam could have begun as something else, after all right now its mostly used as a way of playing games online that people already bought through retail, the online buying part could have been added later once they realized it was viable. Plus with the current level of graphics technology that HL2 uses I can't see how the game could have been released 3 or 4 years ago so I don't really consider the possibility of them going slow to maximize sales from Steam.

uh..HL2 plays in DX6...it could have worked years ago no prob.

 

[smsKONG]

uh..HL2 plays in DX6...it could have worked years ago no prob.

wrong again- DX7

[EDIT] it also took a few years for the engine itself to be complete...things move fast in software development and valve have stated they wanted the game to be as fantastic as possible, you simply can't prove what did or didn't delay the games release without a full development history- which only valve have.
Again point to valve...

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

uh..HL2 plays in DX6...it could have worked years ago no prob.

Uh, its not DX7 is the lowest, they updated the requirements for HL2 not too long ago, play CS:S on DX6, seriously go play it, it looks funny.

 

[cadaveca]

Valve has only had 1 guy working on steam- VU would have to prove that he was taken from HL2 (and was not replaced by anyone else, or his job on HL2 was not finished when he started on steam...etc). Also since this particular claim is from VU against valve- Valve has to prove naff all, VU have to prove valve guilty not the other way round....so it is VU who will have the hardest time methinks.

Very easy....the delay of HL2 CAN be blamed on STEAM. the authentication, and wrapping up HL2 executable with STEAM, makes steam part of HL2. if development of steam even slowed things for a day....

besides which, it's like Billgates doing hostile take overs...i negotiated a contract, saying i would do one thing, when all along i iontended to do differently. by wrapping HL2 security in Steam, and creating a competative market for distribution in direct cinflict with the liscensed publisher is wrong. plain and simple.
that's almost the same as them giving the game to another publishing house to distribute.

 

[cadaveca]

Uh, its not DX7 is the lowest, they updated the requirements for HL2 not too long ago, play CS:S on DX6, seriously go play it, it looks funny.

looks funny..but it works....simple few months spent on those textures instead of DX9, say...
don't get me wrong, i'm just making sure that every angle is looked at. i agrre with everyone who i am arguing against, but i also like to debate. someone has to take the bad side.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

[EDIT] it also took a few years for the engine itself to be complete...things move fast in software development and valve have stated they wanted the game to be as fantastic as possible, you simply can't prove what did or didn't delay the games release without a full development history- which only valve have.
Again point to valve...

Exactly, VU doesn't have much to prove since they weren't at VALVe's HQ during the whole development of the engine and game.

BTW 2 guys working on steam :cheers:

 

[smsKONG]

Very easy....the delay of HL2 CAN be blamed on STEAM. the authentication, and wrapping up HL2 executable with STEAM, makes steam part of HL2. if development of steam even slowed things for a day....

besides which, it's like Billgates doing hostile take overs...i negotiated a contract, saying i would do one thing, when all along i iontended to do differently. by wrapping HL2 security in Steam, and creating a competative market for distribution in direct cinflict with the liscensed publisher is wrong. plain and simple.
that's almost the same as them giving the game to another publishing house to distribute.

Wrong again.

Steam is just a front end- with it's own security built in- meaning any game can be incorporated into it (a job for the steam guy..). And the fact that the security is built in should shorten HL2 development time if anyhting.

And valve had already changed the contract with sierra, so that they could sell independantly online, it's nothing like going to another publisher- they are simply selling THEIR OWN PRODUCT for themselves WITHOUT a publisher (and since VU gave no money directly for HL2 development- only what they owed valve for HL, they aren't entitled to anything but what valve gives them)

If valve had gone to another publisher, then, and only then would VU have a case.

 

[cadaveca]

can you start HL2 without steam.....NO.
they got around the distribution thing with vivendi with STEAM...and by incorporating that into the released RC, that kinda makes vivendi have a claim to steam. it was part of the finished product deliverd to them.

 

[tennistoad]

Valve isn't innocent!!

:cheers: I'm pretty sure that valve not only strong arming vivendi over the cyber cafes and obviously dragging their feet on hl2 more than once, has as much guilt as vu games here. remember when valve first started steam they really had no clue how many people would use it. Once they figured out that they could sell a mill plus units online well then it was time to dupe vu games.. Valve has misled their fans on d.d's and has misled other partners,, ati for one, and believe me depending on what happens with the law suit you might see ati sue valve also. ati's voucher program has been a huge success/failure people who paid $250+ for a 9600 are probably not to happy waiting over a year for the game when now they could get the same card for $100. If it goes to court and it is proved or really implied that someone delayed the game on purpose then ati might have a good case..(depends on the fineprint in their contract with valve-vugames).

Also I saw the info on the judge someone posted and he's 70 years old, no age discrimination here but I'd be willing to bet he's not to up on technology and will rule this case based only on the contracts and business laws. which means he won't believe that valve didn't know about the potential online market in 2000(how to make money online) as opposed to 2004. and I think that he will find that valve was deceptive in it's dealings with vu.

I wish valve luck because the only people who win in these disputes are the lawyers..

Oh yeah and Valve stop lying to your fans! just give us the truth!! if your gonna miss a date tell us if you don't want to give us a date then don't. But posting dates and then delaying and reposting etc,,all it does is make somepeople buy hardware,etc and lose money.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

can you start HL2 without steam.....NO.

Well yeah thats true, but you have to look at it this way, they finished the engine after steam was already working, etc. So it would be a logical thing to incorporate each together.

 

[smsKONG]

Exactly, VU doesn't have much to prove since they weren't at VALVe's HQ during the whole development of the engine and game.

BTW 2 guys working on steam :cheers:

OK 2 guys! but it still has to be proved that both guys were needed on HL2 while developing steam, by VU, I'd love to see if they can magic the evidence out of their french bumholes :E

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I'm pretty sure that valve not only strong arming vivendi over the cyber cafes and obviously dragging their feet on hl2 more than once, has as much guilt as vu games here. remember when valve first started steam they really had no clue how many people would use it. Once they figured out that they could sell a mill plus units online well then it was time to dupe vu games.. Valve has misled their fans on d.d's and has misled other partners,, ati for one, and believe me depending on what happens with the law suit you might see ati sue valve also. ati's voucher program has been a huge success/failure people who paid $250+ for a 9600 are probably not to happy waiting over a year for the game when now they could get the same card for $100. If it goes to court and it is proved or really implied that someone delayed the game on purpose then ati might have a good case..(depends on the fineprint in their contract with valve-vugames).

Also I saw the info on the judge someone posted and he's 70 years old, no age discrimination here but I'd be willing to bet he's not to up on technology and will rule this case based only on the contracts and business laws. which means he won't believe that valve didn't know about the potential online market in 2000(how to make money online) as opposed to 2004. and I think that he will find that valve was deceptive in it's dealings with vu.

I wish valve luck because the only people who win in these disputes are the lawyers..

Oh yeah and Valve stop lying to your fans! just give us the truth!! if your gonna miss a date tell us if you don't want to give us a date then don't. But posting dates and then delaying and reposting etc,,all it does is make somepeople buy hardware,etc and lose money.

VALVe wouldn't drag their feet on a game, they would do it the correct way, if you call that dragging your feet, well then....They didn't know they could sell things off of steam till about a year or two ago, bandwidth wasn't an issue. ATi won't sue VALVe, cause they want to have a game that ATi cards accel at. Thats the persons fault for buying it, not VALVe's Yet again, ATi won't sue, they know about the issues.

Yeah because he is old he won't believe it, nice try..Valve isn't deceptive, they run a damn business, and delays occured and some of their property is trying to be taken away from them. What would you do? Sit there like a little girlie-man and let them take it from you? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I remember one date, Sept 30 2003. I find it funny you people call it "lying" some of you need to go out into the real world and see that there is delays all over the place. They still haven't put out another date, so your statement is void. Well then those people need to learn to not buy hardware for just one game.

 

[cadaveca]

who was really working on the project does not matter..what matters is that steam is PART AND PARCEL of HL2, and incorporating Steam into HL2 took time.wther it was 1 minute for them to add it to the RC...they still incorporated, and expect vivendi to release something that they(vivendi) have no rights to. Asking vivendi to distribute the very thing that could be thier downfall.

those that say that HL2 WILL be sold soon, as that VU needs money is wrong. yes, they reported a loss. but they also paid off debt. 1.43 billion of it, to be exact. 500m (the remaining loss) VU expects to make back with W.o.W, and sales in the rest of the VUE department (which by the way, vivendi shareholder want gone, but brass says no) and sale of some real estate, as well as cash flow from nbcu. Vivendi's prospectus look quite good, actually, regargless of what happens with VUG. oh, and did i mention the DSL networks, or telecommunication companies?

 

[tennistoad]

don't forget people!!
gabe worked at the big MS + (ie is to xp as steam is to hl2)= vivendi is screwed because all updates will be provided from steam and not vivendi packaging, cutting out even more revenue from the publisher..

 

[cadaveca]

don't forget people!!
gabe worked at the big MS + (ie is to xp as steam is to hl2)= vivendi is screwed because all updates will be provided from steam and not vivendi packaging, cutting out even more revenue from the publisher..

finally someone said what i did not want to...M$ is evil...