Bill Gates Donates $10 billion for vaccines

[jverne]

I take it that you were agreeing with me?


Then as a matter of continuity, I must disagree with Danimal.

Yes i am agreeing with you, to a certain measure.


I really don't know what Danimal was referring to.

 

[VirusType2]

Denying one's selfishness is really just deluding yourself. Selfishness is probably what gives us joy. How much of it....that's open to interpretation.

Aren't you basically saying the same thing he said?

EDIT: wow, fast moving thread.

 

[Danimal]

A clarification would be nice, thank you.

You feel good when you're selfish?

I think the only time I felt true joy from doing something selfish was my seventh birthday, where I invited as many people as I could in the pursuit of them bringing more presents.

If I do anything selfish these days I just feel exactly that: Like a selfish cu­nt.

 

[jverne]

Aren't you basically saying the same thing he said?

EDIT: wow, fast moving thread.

Almost. Why does that matter?

 

[Wizard]

Jverne, I don't think anyone knows what the hell you're trying to argue anymore. You can't just argue about EVERYTHING. Find a premise and stick with it.

 

[15357]

You feel good when you're selfish?

I think the only time I felt true joy from doing something selfish was my seventh birthday, where I invited as many people as I could in the pursuit of them bringing more presents.

If I do anything selfish these days I just feel exactly that: Like a selfish cu­nt.

That's called guilt, pain of the mind. Your desire to avoid that pain isn't as selfless as you think.

Of course, your ability to feel that pain, makes you a good person.

Almost. Why does that matter?

Because it kinda looked like a counterargument to my post, which got me confused.,

 

[jverne]

You feel good when you're selfish?

I think the only time I felt true joy from doing something selfish was my seventh birthday, where I invited as many people as I could in the pursuit of them bringing more presents.

If I do anything selfish these days I just feel exactly that: Like a selfish cu­nt.

And that somehow proves i have no idea what i'm talking about??


If you think that any (no matter how small) act of selfishness is wrong...then i salute you. You are the superhuman all people should strive for.

 

[Danimal]

From my personal accounts, yes, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I read your post and you basically say "Our source of joy comes from being selfish." If that's what you're actually trying to say that I feel nothing but immense pity for you.

Enjoy your marriage.

 

[jverne]

That's called guilt, pain of the mind. Your desire to avoid that pain isn't as selfless as you think.

Of course, your ability to feel that pain, makes you a good person.



Because it kinda looked like a counterargument to my post, which got me confused.,

Suddenly i'm seeing numbers in a different light than what i did years ago.

From my personal accounts, yes, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I read your post and you basically say "Our source of joy comes from being selfish." If that's what you're actually trying to say that I feel nothing but immense pity for you.

Enjoy your marriage.

Personal account, oh lol.

Yes because i didn't say probably and how much. I do apologize for not explaining myself better. Selfishness is probably what gives us some joy.

 

[15357]

Suddenly i'm seeing numbers in a different light than what i did years ago.

Years ago, I was a full-blown retarded ****. :/

 

[VirusType2]

Almost. Why does that matter?

You stated it like you were correcting him. Was he denying selfishness or deluding himself?

 

[jverne]

Jverne, I don't think anyone knows what the hell you're trying to argue anymore. You can't just argue about EVERYTHING. Find a premise and stick with it.

Wouldn't that make life much easier?

Is just me or people who accuse me of being a righteous prick are actually being themselves one?

You stated it like you were correcting him. Was he denying selfishness or deluding himself?

We sorted that out now.

 

[kazsymonds]

157 million, what's that compared to 10 billion? Almost nothing. Like I said.


Good man.

It's very good imo, it's 157m more than they have to give away.

Also, remember that this is the exact opposite of a corporation's primary objective - to increase shareholder wealth. They could also pay a higher dividend to increase the share price, or even give it to the directors as a bonus.

If every listed company gave away 157m there would be vaccines for everything.

 

[VirusType2]

I'm not sure why you are trying to argue that 157 million dollars to charity is substantial and a good thing. It's not like I disagree!

Some people seemed to be implying that this charity donation wasn't a big deal, so I compared it to the rare and significantly smaller donation of other corporations, simply to put it in perspective.

10,000,000,000
157,000,000

It's almost 64 times what Wal-Mart donated. That was my point.

Total grant commitments since inception: $21.08 billion (1)

(1) As of September 30, 2009

That doesn't include the 10 billion just pledged.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/Pages/foundation-fact-sheet.aspx

 

[Kyorisu]

As an atheist Bill Gates can't possibly be doing something altruistic and worthy of praise and respect. He must be trying to give those 8 million kids autism or something...

He must be planning to make some kind of hive mind I assume.

 

[StarBob]

Easy to say that when it's not your money. If I gave you 10 billion dollars right now, how much of that would you give to charity? D:


He's filthy rich, and it's a major tax break, but some people create off-shore accounts and all kinds of dodgy shit. Has any other major corporation donated 10 billion dollars to charity? Or even a measly million?

I commend the Gates for this. But despite who is doing it, I'm just glad for the children. I remember reading about African children where their mouth gets a massive a hole in the side, simply from malnutrition.

Not so grotesque version: http://www.savingchildrennow.org/images/noma_pic_1.jpg

WTF? http://www.savingchildrennow.org/News.html

Probably at least 9.5 billion. With 100 million in the bank and moderate yield investments and all of my debt paid off, I'd have far more money than is necessary to live the lifestyle I would enjoy. The remainder would go to my family and friends.

9.5 billion in well organized cash could put every person in haiti on track to a prosperous lifestyle. A little over 3 grand for each and every person would be like seven times what the average person makes (made) in year. Of course, that's only an example... There are a lot of places in the world that could benefit from something like that. Also, the question is more directed toward how much I'd give away, not where it would be best used... I'm sure there are plenty of experts out there that could answer that question better than I can.

It's terrible to have children of the world suffering like that. Most of them probably not even understanding why things are happening the way they are... Living and dying not even knowing that there are people in the world who could help.

 

[jverne]

Probably at least 9.5 billion. With 100 million in the bank and moderate yield investments and all of my debt paid off, I'd have far more money than is necessary to live the lifestyle I would enjoy. The remainder would go to my family and friends.

9.5 billion in well organized cash could put every person in haiti on track to a prosperous lifestyle. A little over 3 grand for each and every person would be like seven times what the average person makes (made) in year. Of course, that's only an example... There are a lot of places in the world that could benefit from something like that. Also, the question is more directed toward how much I'd give away, not where it would be best used... I'm sure there are plenty of experts out there that could answer that question better than I can.

It's terrible to have children of the world suffering like that. Most of them probably not even understanding why things are happening the way they are... Living and dying not even knowing that there are people in the world who could help.

Before the west colonized these parts i doubt there was that much poverty and hunger. People back then lived by the limits of their technology and environment.
The "west" introduced a lifestyle that was not sustainable for their environment.
Obviously i'm talking the obvious. But the curx of the problem is again...overpopulation. Contraception and education should be at the top of the list. Diseases get you when you're weak, if there were less people to thin out food supply i bet the picture would be quite different.

 

[Wizard]

9.5 billion in well organized cash could put every person in haiti on track to a prosperous lifestyle.

I'm sorry, but it's this type of thinking that sends up red flags in my mind about charity and altruism.

You can give someone all the money they'll ever need for education, shelter, food, medical care, clean water, electricity, internet, etc: but without self discipline and self motivation, they'll simply squander the money.

People in developing nations don't need money to get the ball rolling, they need a culture that's prepared to make big change and an economically responsible government that is willing and able to keep stability. Most developing nations simply don't have either.

 

[Vegeta897]

Wizard is right, money can't fix everything.

 

[StarBob]

I'm sorry, but it's this type of thinking that sends up red flags in my mind about charity and altruism.

You can give someone all the money they'll ever need for education, shelter, food, medical care, clean water, electricity, internet, etc: but without self discipline and self motivation, they'll simply squander the money.

People in developing nations don't need money to get the ball rolling, they need a culture that's prepared to make big change and an economically responsible government that is willing and able to keep stability. Most developing nations simply don't have either.

You're confusing personal choice with poverty. People in dire situations don't choose to do so. People who say things like this are often those who have no idea what it's like to not have the near limitless options a moderate amount of work allows in modern western culture. I mean if you look at the antiquated but still legitimate example of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, without the essentials of food, water, shelter, and genral safety, it is impossible to be successful in more advanced endeavors such as education and self actualization, let alone developing the social skills necessary to move in that direction.

So if you by "squander the money" you mean "spend it on staying alive" then I guess they would be wasting a lot of money. Without a food, water, and shelter, these people will never be able to have anything let alone a responsible government. Responsible government alone will take educated individuals that are capable of seeing the big picture and moving toward it. Culture has nothing to do with meeting needs to live. Culture, by definition, requires intellectual design and GROWTH. Neither of which will happen without the essential needs of humanity being met.

So yes, people in developing nations need resources to get this ball rolling, unless you have some super robotic ideals where they should just die off until they can be self sustaining with no aid at all. If that's the case, I challenge you to go experience the same and not crawl back with your palms in the air begging for your old life back.

Edit: Also, no one has ever said that money fixes everything, but money always gets the wheels rolling, it's up to individuals to keep them moving.

 

[Raziaar]

I hear he also gets really sweaty and nervous when going on blind dates. Like, really sweaty.

You bet.

 

[Wizard]

It's not that I'm blaming the impoverished for remaining impoverished.

Take, for example, any number of African countries that have known nothing but civil war for generations. The culture isn't ready for progress: they are still largely uninterested in "catching up" with the rest of the civilized world because they simply have more pressing matters to deal with (like child armies). The government isn't ready for progress because it is overwhelmingly corrupt.

And let me assure you that those undeveloped nations DO have a culture, as backwards or barbaric as you may see. It doesn't necessarily mean they are painting masterpieces, but that's not what culture means. People and nations donate because it makes them look good: nothing more. I mean, we've been throwing money at the problem since the 60s and in half a century the majority of African nations remain wartorn and dirt poor. Obviously something is wrong with that method.

When people want to play in the major leagues, they strive to earn it. They don't buy their way in (and if they do, they often flounder).

 

[Eejit]

Wizard expects this to happen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7t9t7HzZR8

 

[Tyguy]

i donated 10 dollars to haiti, gates has nothin on me

 

[StarBob]

It's not that I'm blaming the impoverished for remaining impoverished.

Take, for example, any number of African countries that have known nothing but civil war for generations. The culture isn't ready for progress: they are still largely uninterested in "catching up" with the rest of the civilized world because they simply have more pressing matters to deal with (like child armies). The government isn't ready for progress because it is overwhelmingly corrupt.

And let me assure you that those undeveloped nations DO have a culture, as backwards or barbaric as you may see. It doesn't necessarily mean they are painting masterpieces, but that's not what culture means. People and nations donate because it makes them look good: nothing more. I mean, we've been throwing money at the problem since the 60s and in half a century the majority of African nations remain wartorn and dirt poor. Obviously something is wrong with that method.

When people want to play in the major leagues, they strive to earn it. They don't buy their way in (and if they do, they often flounder).

Starvation is not a cultural element.

I don't donate money to look good. I put on nice clothes to look good. But as much as I like putting on nice clothes, I'd rather look bad than let people die needlessly.

African issues are a whole element of difficulty. People take control through brute force. Innocent individuals are put to near slave-like tasks and have no way of getting out. Many regions of Africa are very unstable because of this. Aid has been going in all of this time, but many times it is intercepted by militant forces or, even if it is received, the individuals that receive it cannot do much with it given the constant instability. This is why countries in Africa fall in to civil and regional warfare and piracy runs unchecked. Yet, given all of this, solutions are limited. War against these militaristic groups would be one of the few ways to remove them, and no one is willing to do that. The only feasible alternative is to continue to try and get as much aid through as possible in order to save whoever can be saved. Living in country of such excess, I see no reason to not invest some personal dollars in order to accomplish this.

 

[No Limit]

Yesterday when I was at radio shack buying an HDMI switch the lady asked if I wanted to donate $1 to help Haiti with my purchase, I said yes. So I know exactly how Bill Gates feels.

But seriously, I always liked Bill Gates. I also saw the Jon Stewert interview and he really does seem like a cool guy. Oh and **** Apple.

 

[Wizard]

Starvation is not a cultural element.

I don't donate money to look good. I put on nice clothes to look good. But as much as I like putting on nice clothes, I'd rather look bad than let people die needlessly.

African issues are a whole element of difficulty. People take control through brute force. Innocent individuals are put to near slave-like tasks and have no way of getting out. Many regions of Africa are very unstable because of this. Aid has been going in all of this time, but many times it is intercepted by militant forces or, even if it is received, the individuals that receive it cannot do much with it given the constant instability. This is why countries in Africa fall in to civil and regional warfare and piracy runs unchecked. Yet, given all of this, solutions are limited. War against these militaristic groups would be one of the few ways to remove them, and no one is willing to do that. The only feasible alternative is to continue to try and get as much aid through as possible in order to save whoever can be saved. Living in country of such excess, I see no reason to not invest some personal dollars in order to accomplish this.

I never said starvation was a cultural element. I don't know where you interpreted that.

Then you go into explaining the horrible situation in a lot of north African countries...

You argue war with a nation is one of the only ways to help a nation stand on its own two feet: yet you fail to recognize the countless historical examples of this happening, and failing miserably. It's another excuse to exercise imperialism. The whole notion of a country helping another without imposing its own rules and regulations is simply impossibly unlikely.

As noble as spending billions of dollars to perpetuate a cycle of stringing the African people along and getting to feel good about it is, I imagine better solutions exist that involve people fighting for their own rights rather than being a well fed, well sheltered puppet.

 

[StarBob]

I never said starvation was a cultural element. I don't know where you interpreted that.

Then you go into explaining the horrible situation in a lot of north African countries...

You argue war with a nation is one of the only ways to help a nation stand on its own two feet: yet you fail to recognize the countless historical examples of this happening, and failing miserably. It's another excuse to exercise imperialism. The whole notion of a country helping another without imposing its own rules and regulations is simply impossibly unlikely.

As noble as spending billions of dollars to perpetuate a cycle of stringing the African people along and getting to feel good about it is, I imagine better solutions exist that involve people fighting for their own rights rather than being a well fed, well sheltered puppet.

You said "The culture isn't ready for progress", and I interpreted that as the culture not being ready to progress beyond hundreds of thousands of people dying of starvation.

There aren't exactly countless historical examples of militant groups taking over a region by force and starving/enslaving the citizens then being aided by a much larger power that resulted in a miserable failure. Actually, off the top of my head I can't think of one. Not too long ago, no small group of individuals could obtain the military technology to do something of this nature. Also, it was rare for situation like this to arise where local government was so weak that could not defend their citizens. We've all seen military coups and the result is usually not anywhere near as detrimental to the common individual as it is in various African countries. The individuals controlling these regions are only looking for personal gain and not to oust corrupt politicians or overthrow oppressive governments. There are very few directly correlating examples as you seem to claim... and even fewer that involve any military involvement that was deemed a failure.

I also fail to see how "keeping people alive" is "stringing people along" in any light. I'm sure that imagining solutions is wonderful, but the reality is that imagining won't accomplish much if you don't act. I think it's much more beneficial to act and save lives in places that need aid than try to come up with some ultra diplomatic solution to deal with people who have no qualms cutting someone's arms or head off and building a roadblock out of them... let alone allowing their own fellow citizens to starve to death. How would you deal with this people otherwise? Buy them out? Try to convince them that they can rebuild their society without warfare and embrace their cultural heritage? I'm not sure how any course of action is going to fix everything, but I do know that doing nothing isn't going to help at all.

I don't condone war for profit, but we all know that is one of the few reasons a country like the US goes to war anymore. But really, to sit by and watch your own people die... I don't know why you wouldn't fight that.

Regardless, I will continue to donate whatever money I can to save people who need help. I like to think that even the little bit I can hand over is enough to keep a few other people in the world around when they'd normally cease to exist because of the greed and hatred of others.

 

[Wizard]

I'm agreeing to disagree: our arguments are based on conflicting philosophies. I hope impoverished nations can rise above themselves as much as anyone, but I'm not certain altruism is the way to go.

As far as paying $10bil for vaccines, an argument can be made that it contributes to bacterial resistances in a big way.

 

[Eejit]

Vaccines don't contribute to bacterial resistance. Science fail.

 

[StarBob]

Vaccines are very important. No matter what you have in essential needs or education, viral infections will always be present. Limiting it is a primary step in moving toward any stable region.

 

[Wizard]

You're right, Eejit. My error. Vaccines away!

 

[VirusType2]

These vaccines are for things that we have pretty much completely eliminated in the 1st world. Vaccines that can protect them for their entire lives.

 

[15357]

Why can't he donate to something that really matters, like spaceflight or battle mechs and the other awesome ones?


Surely he has a couple more billion to spare, and you know, he probably was a nerd.

 

[No Limit]

Surely he has a couple more billion to spare, and you know, he probably was a nerd.

This guy:

A nerd? get out of here.

 

[Raziaar]

This guy:

*NERD SNIP*

A nerd? get out of here.

He was arrested for knocking out two bouncers at a club and having sweet salty love with every hot chick in the place. That's no nerd!


Okay... so maybe it was just a traffic violation in New Mexico... pfft.

On January 31, 2008 at the World Economic Forum Bill Gates introduced the idea of a new form of capitalism that is based upon recognition. This idea attempts to harness the power of capitalism by balancing the scales of capital and philanthropy. Gates says, “The challenge is to design a system where market incentives, including profits and recognition, drive the change.”[49] In cases where companies are unable to profit from donations or acts of charity, Gates maintains that corporations should receive some form of recognition in order to balance their “loss”. Therefore Recognition itself becomes a form of capital. Adam Smith asserts that the greatest gain to any person is witnessing the well being of others. Gates manipulates the ideas of Smith by adding, “Creative Capitalism takes this interest in the fortunes of others and ties it to our interest in our own fortunes—in ways that help advance both.”[49]

 

[Shadow-warrior]

"Why Are We Vaccinating Against Childhood Diseases?

This is the multi-billion dollar question. Parents usually have their children vaccinated because the idea of not doing it simply doesn't occur. We have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the concept of "deadly" childhood diseases. Yet, there is no documentation showing that death rates from these diseases have been improved by vaccinations. As the data from the AMA itself shows, there is every reason to believe that these vaccinations are not effective, that we need to look to other reasons for the decrease in these disease deaths.

Even more significantly, the AMA's own data shows a possible link between an increase in death coinciding with vaccinations. Whether this is a cause-and-effect link is not proven at this time. However, with the AMA's record of not looking into the effects of vaccinations - of not even requiring that after-effects be reported - it's clear that the allopathic (standard) medical system is not going to sort this out. That leaves us with no option but to assume the worst - that childhood vaccinations not only do little or no good, but they may be doing great harm.

The question, of course, is "Why?" As with any corporate-controlled business (and make no mistake, the medical industry is big business) the answer always goes back to the same thing: money. Filthy lucre. There are millions and billions of dollars, pounds, euros, and other currencies to be made by both the pharmaceutical firms and the doctors themselves." http://www.naturalnews.com/022617.html

 

[StarBob]

"Why Are We Vaccinating Against Childhood Diseases?

This is the multi-billion dollar question. Parents usually have their children vaccinated because the idea of not doing it simply doesn't occur. We have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the concept of "deadly" childhood diseases. Yet, there is no documentation showing that death rates from these diseases have been improved by vaccinations. As the data from the AMA itself shows, there is every reason to believe that these vaccinations are not effective, that we need to look to other reasons for the decrease in these disease deaths.

Even more significantly, the AMA's own data shows a possible link between an increase in death coinciding with vaccinations. Whether this is a cause-and-effect link is not proven at this time. However, with the AMA's record of not looking into the effects of vaccinations - of not even requiring that after-effects be reported - it's clear that the allopathic (standard) medical system is not going to sort this out. That leaves us with no option but to assume the worst - that childhood vaccinations not only do little or no good, but they may be doing great harm.

The question, of course, is "Why?" As with any corporate-controlled business (and make no mistake, the medical industry is big business) the answer always goes back to the same thing: money. Filthy lucre. There are millions and billions of dollars, pounds, euros, and other currencies to be made by both the pharmaceutical firms and the doctors themselves." http://www.naturalnews.com/022617.html

I guess nearly eliminating so many childhood diseases over the years is a terrible. Ever met anyone in America with Polio? Prolly a good thing. I don't know if I could take much information from a source called "Natural News" either. I just try not to trust things that sound crazy.

 

[Eejit]

Holy shit that hardcore hippy woooo site is hilarious. Thanks shadow-warrior!

 

[No Limit]

....

Right, there is no evidance at all that things like polio were eliminated with vaccines.

Pass that shit my way brah.